Why do so many Quran Aloners still use the term "Allah"
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Salam bro "AB",
Bro not every word that starts with Al, means it is the Al "Al Muarafa"
all the names other than Allah, you can remove the Al and it will still be valid, EXCEPT ALLAH, if you remove the Al, you will end up with a non sensible word which is "Lah" represented by only two arabic letters "Lam & Ha". and this word does not exist as far as I believe
i wonder why you want to change this common kbnoweldge about Allah even before Islam came to existance, your motion is very silly and uncalled for bro, sorry to tell you that
Peace
JK- The point is that in "Al-ilah" the second "Alif" is dropped to EASE THE PRONOUNCIATION, and hence we have "Allah". Even without the "alif" though "lah" is NOT A NONSENSIBLE WORD. "lah" means "to him". Infact bro "Layth" sugested the meaning of "Allah" to be "the to him(in the sense that God is the one to Whom all things belong and return). There's nothing more mystical about that. GOD Bless!
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Peace "mquran",
So why isn't al-azeez 'alazeez' ?
JK- This is because "'aziz" is with an "ain" NOT an "alif". "ain" is diffrent from an "alif" as the sound comes from the throat. It is easy to pronounce even in this case without need of conraction. GOD Bless!
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Peace "mquran",
Sorry, my example should be one that starts with an aleef, not an ain.
So my question to Johny why isn't it 'alkhir' but 'al-aakhir'?
JK- It hasnt only got to do with a word starting with an "alif" BUT THE PRONOUNCIATION should be that of a simple "alif" like we hear in "al" NOT "aal". A similar example can be found in English. Take the word "hour", though it dioesnt start with a vowel we HEAR A VOWEL SOUND AT THE BEGINNING and thus the word is preceded by "an" not "a". The case with "Allah" can be thought off as a similar one. GOD Bless!
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AhmedI'm afraid I can't agree with this statement because I included the word almost in my statement
With the 'almost' , your argument fails. Let me recap for you
AB The irrefutable argument against those who say Allah = Al + Ilah , is this All of Allah other names was almost (as far as I know) expressed with the Al and without the Al to refer to him, EXCEPT Allah
Therefore if there are any names with a 'no al', Allah is still possibly 'al-ilah' contracted, according to your argument above.
To me , a better argument would be to resort to the fact that al-quraan is kitaaban mutashabihan mathany. Therefore, if Allah was like any other name, it would be 'al-ilah'. But its not. Therefore, it cannot be the same.
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As Salaam Alaikum,
What I find quite disturbing is how you associated "God" wiht Quran Aloners and "Allah" with traditionalist. Please don't hijack God and the words we use for them, with differnet sects in the Muslim community.
Obviously you are just disturbed over what non-Muslims are thinking of you if you were to say "Allah". Sorry but I am not about submit to such ignorane and a very irrational fear. Actually I'm quite offended.
Seriously get over youself and the "english" language. I'll speak whatever the heck I want, whenever I want.
Your idea that a 'Quran Aloner' should say God instead of Allah is bullcrap, and really quite racist in my opinion.
salaam
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Salaam Alleikum No Progressive
I totally agree with you. My advice to you will be to leave Free Minds leaving it to Rashad Khalifa cult. I will stay away from Free Minds myself will come back after couple of weeks to read Dr. Ayman Part II article.
Allah Taala bless you for speaking the truth.
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PEACE
^^If we are going to associate individuals into cults or name call and try to disperse from here then that is not right
We have a variety of people here on this board and we should not discourage visitors to leave debates or finding knowledge by labelling someone or their beliefs in a derogative way.
I'm not taking sides here but I feel johny_k is being single handedly attacked here for believing in Code-19 which is his own personal choice of belief and if you attack or do not agree then do so in the correct section of this board but ignorant attacks on people without debating I personally don't like.
PEACE
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What I find quite disturbing is how you associated "God" wiht Quran Aloners and "Allah" with traditionalist. Please don't hijack God and the words we use for them, with differnet sects in the Muslim community.
In Johny's defense, the word 'Allah' is being used in a derogatory sense amongst the Christian fundies I've met. Ignorant of them, but I think we need to build bridges.
Obviously you are just disturbed over what non-Muslims are thinking of you if you were to say "Allah". Sorry but I am not about submit to such ignorane and a very irrational fear. Actually I'm quite offended.
We should present the message in the best way possible. Sometimes this might include a temporary compromise of language in my experience. However, I believe that the best way is to return to the linguistics and vocabulary of al-quraan.
KGB I totally agree with you. My advice to you will be to leave Free Minds leaving it to Rashad Khalifa cult. I will stay away from Free Minds myself will come back after couple of weeks to read Dr. Ayman Part II article.
Come on , KGB )
Aside from Johny, who else is there? -
Peace,
Your idea that a 'Quran Aloner' should say God instead of Allah is bullcrap, and really quite racist in my opinion.
I think Jonny meant to not restrict the word to refer to the Creator to an Arabic word.
If the Arabic word is the unique correct one, that is what I'd find racist. -
I think Jonny meant to not restrict the word to refer to the Creator to an Arabic word.
If the Arabic word is the unique correct one, that is what I'd find racist.Al-quraan is a map to a destination. Its the destination that counts, not the map itself. If you used another map (I believe all maps save this one are flawed but potentially can still get you there), then you will need other systems of signs.
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As Salaam Alaikum,
Well many Muslims are now using "Muslim" derrogatory too. It just no longer (as if it ever was) just flows from the mouth.. It's not "Muslim" its a "MUSSLLIM"... the "Muslim" is stressed. You think that Pat Robertson is saying "muslim" nicely??? Should we stoop calling ourselves Muslims aswell? And refer to ourselves as some Enlgish translation of it or else?
salaam
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AhmedI'm afraid I can't agree with this statement because I included the word almost in my statement
With the 'almost' , your argument fails. Let me recap for you
AB The irrefutable argument against those who say Allah = Al + Ilah , is this All of Allah other names was almost (as far as I know) expressed with the ?Al? and without the ?Al? to refer to him, EXCEPT ?Allah
Therefore if there are any names with a 'no al', Allah is still possibly 'al-ilah' contracted, according to your argument above.
To me , a better argument would be to resort to the fact that al-quraan is kitaaban mutashabihan mathany. Therefore, if Allah was like any other name, it would be 'al-ilah'. But its not. Therefore, it cannot be the same.
what you are going on about?
I said almost every name was used with Al and without Al, now you are working hard to make that statement wrong
fine, make it wrong, but in your books not mine
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Salam bro "AB",
Bro not every word that starts with Al, means it is the Al "Al Muarafa"
all the names other than Allah, you can remove the Al and it will still be valid, EXCEPT ALLAH, if you remove the Al, you will end up with a non sensible word which is "Lah" represented by only two arabic letters "Lam & Ha". and this word does not exist as far as I believe
i wonder why you want to change this common kbnoweldge about Allah even before Islam came to existance, your motion is very silly and uncalled for bro, sorry to tell you that
Peace
JK- The point is that in "Al-ilah" the second "Alif" is dropped to EASE THE PRONOUNCIATION, and hence we have "Allah". Even without the "alif" though "lah" is NOT A NONSENSIBLE WORD. "lah" means "to him". Infact bro "Layth" sugested the meaning of "Allah" to be "the to him(in the sense that God is the one to Whom all things belong and return). There's nothing more mystical about that. GOD Bless!
Peace bro
there is no such thingh in Arabic bro, to drop the first Alif when adding Al to the word, never heard of this new grammar law
can you please provide any evidences?
thanks
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what you are going on about?
I said almost every name was used with Al and without Al, now you are working hard to make that statement wrong
fine, make it wrong, but in your books not mine
I will simply even more for you
Your reasoning works IF NO OTHER (not ALMOST no other) name of Allah exists without the 'al' attached. For example, Ar-rahmaan is never just rahmaan, as far as I can see.
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Peace "Noprogressive",
What I find quite disturbing is how you associated "God" wiht Quran Aloners and "Allah" with traditionalist. Please don't hijack God and the words we use for them, with differnet sects in the Muslim community.
JK- Im not hijacking anything. I was advising all of those who claim to believe in Quran Alone to use the appropriate word for GOD in the language which they are speaking, thats it.
Obviously you are just disturbed over what non-Muslims are thinking of you if you were to say "Allah". Sorry but I am not about submit to such ignorane and a very irrational fear. Actually I'm quite offended.
JK- You dont need to be offended because this is the truth. Did you every hear English Christians going around calling GOD "elyhim/yahweh"? No you dont. This is the stupidity of the sunni and shia mullahs who think Arabic language is the language of heaven and they are full of national pride.
Seriously get over youself and the "english" language. I'll speak whatever the heck I want, whenever I want.
JK- You can, nobody is stopping you but if people call you terrorist or something then dont blame me. Im just giving an advise, NOT forcing anayone.
Your idea that a 'Quran Aloner' should say God instead of Allah is bullcrap, and really quite racist in my opinion.
salaam
JK- A Quran Aloner should use that term for GOD DEPNEDING ON THE LANGUAGE WHICH IS HE SPEAKING AT ANY PARTICULAR TIME. Like when we speak French wed say "Deiu". In Greek "Hotheus". In German "Gott", in Persian and Urdu "Khoda" , etc. Get it? And if you dont wanna take my advice, forget it and stay a fanatic. GOD Bless!
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Peace bro "AB",
Peace bro
there is no such thingh in Arabic bro, to drop the first Alif when adding Al to the word, never heard of this new grammar law
can you please provide any evidences?
thanks
JK- The evidence i can provide you is that the Quran NEVER uses "AL-ilah" despite it's using "ilah" 95 times. Coincidence? GOD Bless!
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Peace "Noprogressive",
As Salaam Alaikum,
Well many Muslims are now using "Muslim" derrogatory too. It just no longer (as if it ever was) just flows from the mouth.. It's not "Muslim" its a "MUSSLLIM"... the "Muslim" is stressed. You think that Pat Robertson is saying "muslim" nicely??? Should we stoop calling ourselves Muslims aswell? And refer to ourselves as some Enlgish translation of it or else?
salaam
JK- Yes exactly, we should call ourselves "submitters" or rather "submitters to GOD Alone" while speaking English. No terms like "Islam" or "Muslim" while speaking English. This is what id call racists by making Arabic into the only Divine language. "islam" and "muslim" are NOT proper nouns or names. The first means "submission" and the other "submitter". GOD Bless!
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what you are going on about?
I said almost every name was used with Al and without Al, now you are working hard to make that statement wrong
fine, make it wrong, but in your books not mine
I will simply even more for you
Your reasoning works IF NO OTHER (not ALMOST no other) name of Allah exists without the 'al' attached. For example, Ar-rahmaan is never just rahmaan, as far as I can see.
it was not a reason body, it was an observation accompanied with the word ALMOST
now what is your observation about dropping the Alif in Allah when the Al was added to it?
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Well many Muslims are now using "Muslim" derrogatory too. It just no longer (as if it ever was) just flows from the mouth.. It's not "Muslim" its a "MUSSLLIM"... the "Muslim" is stressed. You think that Pat Robertson is saying "muslim" nicely??? Should we stoop calling ourselves Muslims aswell? And refer to ourselves as some Enlgish translation of it or else
Sister NP, in my experience (this is the operative phrase), the name 'muslim' has been severly loaded with social, cultural and civilisational baggage. To use it would be to invite troublesome explanations.
Supposing you had a meeting called 'Islamic Study Circle' and you advertised it. If this meeting coincides with a prayer time, the people who attend will expect you to pray or even lead (if you're male). I wouldn't like to have to go through the same debate every single time (and from my experience, this will be the case).
This is why I would prefer 'meeting for social justice' or 'evolution of humankind'. Then you might invite the people with a more correct mindset.
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Salam Brother Jonny
As I told you bro, I never heard of that grammar rule you stated that the Alif should be dropped from Ilah when Al is added to it for the sake of pronounciation, well here is two named for Allah and each is starting with an Alif, both have the Al and both but we observe that the first Alif in the two names were not dropped, the names are "Al Awal & Al Akhir"
(3)
Why is that bro?
peace