The Alcohol debate - new insight.
-
Peace truth, also esimsek, all
Just a note, though this may not directly be related to discussing the true meaning of these verses from a etymological point of view
Wine cannot cause the animosity and hatred that 590 mentions in every case.
I think you obviously did not have too many experiences with really regular drinkers of wine ..... ;c).
It can, like every alcoholical beverage, be a source of extreme hatred and animosity and many other dangers.Wine is used socially and harmlessly in many cultures and is a provision from the God.
That?s why, in my humble opionion, the qur'?n also mentions that there is many good in khamr.
However, the few health advantages in it can also be reached by more harmless products which don?t share its disadvantages.
According to some medical specialists the idea that small amounts of wine are harmless is a myth. Every amount carries physical dangers.
Also, even one glass of wine is not horribly dangerous and does not really intoxicate, it will already lower your discipline of not drinking maybe one or two more glasses of it or really not driving a car with it etc..
Furthermore, the `inspirationnal feeling? caused by even one glass is already a mild toxic reaction and I think it is sad that some people seek this instead of having a true and profound inspiration.If you ask me one should be highly sceptical of every source spreading myth about the benefits of alcohole or e.g. the disadvantages of the time of US alcohole prohibition etc. because obviously there is a very big and well paying industry behind wine and all other alcoholic beverages.
I wouldn?t trust this capitalistic power much.And just yesterday I saw an interesting report on tv that although not every single drinker of alcoholic beverages might be in direct danger there is a clear and non disputable relationship between the per head amount of alcohol drunken in a country and the amount of alcoholism, liver diseases, intoxication induced violence, other drug abuse, death through car accidents etc..
So, the more `harmlessly? it is used in a culture, even if most people are not affected by these dangers, the higher will be the percentage of people affected by these dangers.While I think we should discuss about the real meanign of khamr and think your theory to be worth thinking about, there is no point in undermining the dangers of alcohol.
Of course even plain sugar can be poison.
But still there is a magnificent difference here.
I tell you, even if alcohole should not be forbidden in the qur'?n in direct words, in my opinion it is clear that a regular consume of it is not tayyib and believers should seek to consume what is tayyib.Also, I didn?t really get why in your opinion the
khamr? would in 5/90 be used as a cognate tomaysir?.
I do perefctly agree with you that maysir is `easy life, having an easy time?.
But I see no direct conceptual relationship between having an easy time and hiding truth.
I would not automatically accuse everyone having a lot of easy time to constantly hide the truth to cause animosity.
However, easy life in all cultures is intrinsically connected to the marketing and use of intoxicants.peace again,
Leyla
-
Sister Leyla
What you said regarding the enmosity and hatred BETWEEN US that is instigated by Alcohol is actually mentioned in the Quran
90- O ye who believe! wine/alcohol and gambling and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Shaitan'shandworkLeave it aside in order that ye may succeed.
91- Satan's plan is (but) to excite enmity and hatred between you, with wine and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of Allah, and from Salat will ye not then abstain?
(90)
(91)
-> Verse 590 is very clear three deeds that we should LEAVE ASIDE, those three deeds are "wine/alcohol, gambling and (divination by) arrows", because these deeds "are an abomination,- of Shaitan's handwork" therefore we were told by Allah to "Leave it aside", why? "in order that ye may succeed.",
-> What is striking is, only two of the three bad deeds were mentioned in the 591 as easy means of depolyment for the Shaitan to cause enmosity and hatred BETWEEN US, those two deeds are "GAMBLING AND ALCOHOL", the third bad deed mentioned in 590 "(divination by) arrows" is not mentioned here,because it is only a violation to the belief and can not be used easily by the Shaitan to cause enmosity and hatred between us
I read every day in the newspapers, many ugly fights (and even murders) and the common cause is Alcohol, it is also a common crime for many people to steal money from their employers to feed their gambling habit and they end up in jail, also we see most of the causes for the ugly stories on Jerry springer is Alcohol, it is been used as a geniune excuse, what a shame
The ones who are not blind and have knwledge can easily see the wisdom of prohibiting these two very bad deeds
Peace
-
Salaamun alaikum Ahmed, Leyla, et al
I'd like your comments on the following
-
Even though 5/90 mentions 'al-khamr', 'al-maysir' , 'al-ansab' and 'al-azlaam' (4 items) and they are min (crucial word, this) amalish shaitaan, why does the command say fa ajtnibuHU (1 item). Why isnt it 'fa ajtanibuHUM' ?
-
Why is it 'innaMAA al-khamr' and not 'inna al-khamr'. Any idea?
-
What are al-ansaab and al-azlaam. Nasb appears in al-quraan but doesn't mean 'divinination' or 'altars'.
-
-
Salaamun alaikum Ahmed, Leyla, et al
I'd like your comments on the following
-
Even though 5/90 mentions 'al-khamr', 'al-maysir' , 'al-ansab' and 'al-azlaam' (4 items) and they are min (crucial word, this) amalish shaitaan, why does the command say fa ajtnibuHU (1 item). Why isnt it 'fa ajtanibuHUM' ?
-
Why is it 'innaMAA al-khamr' and not 'inna al-khamr'. Any idea?
-
What are al-ansaab and al-azlaam. Nasb appears in al-quraan but doesn't mean 'divinination' or 'altars'.
Thanks for correcting me,you are right ther are 4 bad deeds, sorry it is midnight and was busy washing my wife car and tried yo squeese a comment without concentrating
I'm just about to go to bed and I will reply to you in about 8 hours
good night
-
-
Sal?m mquran
- Even though 5/90 mentions 'al-khamr', 'al-maysir' , 'al-ansab' and 'al-azlaam' (4 items) and they are min (crucial word, this) amalish shaitaan, why does the command say fa ajtnibuHU (1 item). Why isnt it 'fa ajtanibuHUM' ?
Very profound discovery which leads us into the right direction!
Well, as we already have seen at other places (e.g. when the qur'?n speaks about alladhina amanu wa amilu-S-Salihati) and as you once have pointed out to meyourself (thanks) the wa often forms inseparable cognates within qur'?nic language.
That?s just my point about the connection to al maysir.
To understand the dangers of al khamr one also needs to understand al maysir, al anSab and al azl?m.
( and that?s why I think that truth? point is a little bit difficult, because he does not consider the implication on his interpretation that this causes)
I would say that in this verse these 4 terms form one single metaconcept and that?s why it is only fa ajtnibuHu.I agree with truth and others that al maysir is something like ' easy time, easy life' and when seeing this as one facet of a single problematic metaconcept it seems logical to me to see al khamr as things that intoxicate, alcohole etc..
However, I haven?t yet formed an opinion on al anSab and al azl?m
Any ideas?peace,
Leyla
-
I would say that in this verse these 4 terms form one single metaconcept and that?s why it is only fa ajtnibuHu.
Agreed.
I agree with truth and others that al maysir is something like ' easy time, easy life' and when seeing this as one facet of a single problematic metaconcept it seems logical to me to see al khamr as things that intoxicate, alcohole etc..
Right. I believe so as well.
However, I haven?t yet formed an opinion on al anSab and al azl?m
Well, I believe all words will be linked to the root as you do, I think. Al-ansaab to me would be the act of 'apportioning' (nasiban min al-kitaab is a portion of the book), so perhaps its apportioning part of our deens to god and the other part to ourselves. This may be backed up by the fact that Allah tells us to enter into as-silm 'kaffah' holistically and not follow the footsteps of shaitaan, just like 5/90 tells us about shaitaan. Comments ?
-
Salaamun alaikum Ahmed, Leyla, et al
I'd like your comments on the following
-
Even though 5/90 mentions 'al-khamr', 'al-maysir' , 'al-ansab' and 'al-azlaam' (4 items) and they are min (crucial word, this) amalish shaitaan, why does the command say fa ajtnibuHU (1 item). Why isnt it 'fa ajtanibuHUM' ?
-
Why is it 'innaMAA al-khamr' and not 'inna al-khamr'. Any idea?
-
What are al-ansaab and al-azlaam. Nasb appears in al-quraan but doesn't mean 'divinination' or 'altars'.
Good morning
- The reason it is fa ajtnibuHU (1 item). Instead of 'fa ajtanibuHUM', is simpley this
The order of Igtinab is refereeing to the singular (Rigsun of the Shaitan work) the 4 bad deeds were described as singular (Rijsun) and that is what we should ?Nagtanib?, you will also note that ?Igtanibuh? is muscular because it is referring to the muscular (Shaitan Rijsun) , 3 out of the 4 bad deeds are actually feminine
-
Inama is a very common word in Arabic, it is repeated in the Quran at least 180 times, as far as I remember it is a sister to Ina and has the impression of stressing the message more than Ina, I will confirm that when I receive the grammar books, the impornat note is this, Inama is an indpendant word and is not composed of ?Ina + Ma?
-
Al Ansaab = to erict (build) a stage to be used as a place for scarifying the ?Zabh? to the Idols that human worship, we can see this now days actually in many countries
-
Al Azlaam = methods of knowing the future ?Ghaib? using arrows, small stones or playing cards to predict the "Ghaib"
Peace
-
-
Peace
Maysir can't mean an easy life, it makes NO SENSE, it is very confusing to use the root to extract the meanings of words, i said this many times now but sure the non Arabic speakers insist on not listening,
Anyway, let's look at its logic and see its sense
Allah is suppose to be warning us not to have an easy life, how come if He told us that He is one in charge of making our lives easy and hard?
If we look at prophet Solaiman story, we see, he had a very comfy life, he had even the jinns and the birds as servants, yet it was given to him by Allah, so would that mean Solaiman is a sinner because he accepted the easy life Allah gave it to him?
The general rule for humans is not to have an easy life, this is not managed by us rather by Allah. And the Quran says that in many locations.
What will be the case for the elderly and the teens who don?t work and have a very easy life of just sitting down and watching TV?, are they sinners?
Maysir NEVER mean in Arabic to have an easy life, I agree that Maysir coming from the word ?Easy? , but that is a perfect description to gambling, bloody oath it is easy money
To take this specific definition of gambling by the word very common Arabic word Maysir and globalise it as an easy life then I guess you guys are making things Haram while it is not because the Quran is warning us from that deed, but the Quran also warns big times form making things Haram while it was not stated as such
Peace
-
The order of Igtinab is refereeing to the singular (Rigsun of the Shaitan work) the 4 bad deeds were described as singular (Rijsun) and that is what we should Nagtanib, you will also note that Igtanibuh is muscular because it is referring to the muscular (Shaitan Rijsun) , 3 out of the 4 bad deeds are actually feminine
Mate, this is why I mentioned the MIN in 5/90. It's MIN amalush-shaitaan. Therefore, using a singular masculine pronoun cannot be referring to amalush-shaitaan because amalush-shaitaan isn't the subject. Even if just one of the 4 amal are masculine, it would render all of them masculine.
- Inama is a very common word in Arabic, it is repeated in the Quran at least 180 times, as far as I remember it is a sister to Ina and has the impression of stressing the message more than Ina, I will confirm that when I receive the grammar books, the impornat note is this, Inama is an indpendant word and is not composed of Ina + Ma
Great, thanks for the info. I will await the answer when you get your grammar books.
Al Ansaab = to erict (build) a stage to be used as a place for scarifying the Zabh to the Idols that human worship, we can see this now days actually in many countries
I have a problem with this because nasb means 'portion'. Of course, this goes against 'world arab usage' and you won't agree. No problem there.
- Al Azlaam = methods of knowing the future Ghaib using arrows, small stones or playing cards to predict the "Ghaib"
It would make sense to say that THIS is gambling.
Maysir can't mean an easy life, it makes NO SENSE, it is very confusing to use the root to extract the meanings of words, i said this many times now but sure the non Arabic speakers insist on not listening,
Wow, how did you know that? Not been playing with al-azlaam, have you ?
You're right but hey, we know of our differences so lets use them to obtain a dynamic.
To me, maysir indicates a lack of wanting to push oneself, inertia if you will.
-
The order of Igtinab is refereeing to the singular (Rigsun of the Shaitan work) the 4 bad deeds were described as singular (Rijsun) and that is what we should ?Nagtanib?, you will also note that ?Igtanibuh? is muscular because it is referring to the muscular (Shaitan Rijsun) , 3 out of the 4 bad deeds are actually feminine
Mate, this is why I mentioned the MIN in 5/90. It's MIN amalush-shaitaan. Therefore, using a singular masculine pronoun cannot be referring to amalush-shaitaan because amalush-shaitaan isn't the subject. Even if just one of the 4 amal are masculine, it would render all of them masculine.
excuse me mate, Igtanibuh in 590 is referring to the Rijsun of the Shaitan, but because the 4 deeds were described as such then we should avoide them and avoide anything that is rijsun for that matter, you need to search the Quran for Rijsun and you will see that there are more Rijsun by the devil than the above 4
- Inama is a very common word in Arabic, it is repeated in the Quran at least 180 times, as far as I remember it is a sister to Ina and has the impression of stressing the message more than Ina, I will confirm that when I receive the grammar books, the impornat note is this, Inama is an indpendant word and is not composed of ?Ina + Ma?
Great, thanks for the info. I will await the answer when you get your grammar books.
to be honest, i found it not interesting to have a religious descussion with you, I actually responded to the comment last night thinking it was from leyla, i was very tired it seems, then this morning I discovered that it is yours, so i can't promise that i will be keen to get you an answer really, sorry
Al Ansaab = to erict (build) a stage to be used as a place for scarifying the ?Zabh? to the Idols that human worship, we can see this now days actually in many countries
I have a problem with this because nasb means 'portion'. Of course, this goes against 'world arab usage' and you won't agree. No problem there.
Haha, ignornaance at its max, Nasib is the one that means portion, Nasib also means "Qadar", you always impress me with your ignorance with the arabic language because you work hard to show that you know it a to z lol , but what is funny that you always try to make the arabs look as they are the ignoranst but the truth is surely the contrary
- Al Azlaam = methods of knowing the future ?Ghaib? using arrows, small stones or playing cards to predict the "Ghaib"
It would make sense to say that THIS is gambling.
your sense, not the Arabic langugae sense
Maysir can't mean an easy life, it makes NO SENSE, it is very confusing to use the root to extract the meanings of words, i said this many times now but sure the non Arabic speakers insist on not listening,
Wow, how did you know that? Not been playing with al-azlaam, have you ?
another stupid comment by you, let me use my second ear to throw it out of my head without processing
You're right but hey, we know of our differences so lets use them to obtain a dynamic.
well if you know that i'm right, why you asked me how did I know that?
To me, maysir indicates a lack of wanting to push oneself, inertia if you will.
good, I'm glad it is to you only and possibly to others
-
Here is a verse for you Mquran
Toil shall touch not them, nor shall they (ever) be asked to leave.
(4
I guess the word " " in 1548, should mean "a portion" to you?
see what i mean
-
Peace mquran, Ahmed
mquran Well, I believe all words will be linked to the root as you do, I think.
Yes, I do, mquran.
But we both have a big disagreement with Ahmed here.
So, please Ahmed, forgive me when I don?t say anything about your argumentation now.
I am not ignoring it. I thank you for your efforts but the problem simply is, since we have this basic disagreement over the role and function of qur'?nic language everything I would answer to you would make no sense to you and everything you would say would make no sense to me.
It's like talking in two languages.I have no personal problem with having this disagreement here. As long as you act like a good person. The problem only is that this disagreement makes it almost impossible for us two to come to any common conclusion in this issue.
But at least we agree that alcohole is not a good idea. wink
And hopefully we also agree on the most basic ethical teachings of al qur'?n.
That?s worth much more.mquran Al-ansaab to me would be the act of 'apportioning' (nasiban min al-kitaab is a portion of the book), so perhaps its apportioning part of our deens to god and the other part to ourselves. This may be backed up by the fact that Allah tells us to enter into as-silm 'kaffah' holistically and not follow the footsteps of shaitaan, just like 5/90 tells us about shaitaan. Comments ?
I thought about this the whole evening and I agree that ans?b must have something to do with portions.
I am highly considering your suggestion.
But maybe it has something to do with accumulating portions and portioning wealth only for yourself ?? Having a life full of luxury??
That would also suit the conceptual relationship with khamr and maysir, I think.
Hmm.Leyla
-
One more thing,Ahmed.
Although it is not related to the content of the discussion per seto me now this is great, we have a verse in the Quran that says there will be rivers of Khamr, hence there will be rivers of what covers our mind
makes great sense indeed,to us I guess you guys are making things Haram while it is not because the Quran is warning us from that deed
to mquran another stupid comment by you, let me use my second ear to throw it out of my head without processing
No offense, brother, and likewise I don?t feel offended,
but are you aware that you are always very very quick of coming up with a judgemental thinking about the status of others according to the qur'?nic teachings and are also very very quick in using a language that might be seen as offensive by others, putting others in a ridiculed position ??I am not saying that I never make mistakes like that. I surely do.
I also think that you do so so quickly surely not out of bad intentions.
Maybe your remarks would seem totally different and much nicer to us if we were able to see your face.
But you should be made aware of the fact that a certain more respectful language would sometimes help the cause of an online discussion.peace,
Leyla
-
Excuse me Leyla
can you stop talking on others behalf if the comment was noot directed to you?
this is the second time you do that now
if you find my style offending, the solution is very simple you can ignore me, i don't ignore you because I don't find your style offending, but please do with me if it is the case, I can assure you though that no offence was intended
thanks
-
Also Leyla, if you are upset by my style regarding Mquran, I'm sorry this the only way I found to suit his style after knowing him better, I actualy used to respect his opinions when I joined, but that is not the case any more, sorry this is my honest feelings twards his opinions that degarde muslims and the arabs
-
peace
i dont have time to read the entire converstation
so whts da ultimate conclustion is alcohol allowed or not????
dis is so frustrating one word can mean so many things ,why isnt it is just clear , it becomes even more frustrating when u dont know arabic
OH Allah pls help me -
excuse me mate, Igtanibuh in 590 is referring to the Rijsun of the Shaitan, but because the 4 deeds were described as such then we should avoide them and avoide anything that is rijsun for that matter, you need to search the Quran for Rijsun and you will see that there are more Rijsun by the devil than the above 4
The subject matter of 5/90 is 'al-khamr' and the other 3, not amalus-shaitaan. They are described as rijsun, yes but they are the subject matter so 'ajtanibuhu' must refer to them.
to be honest, i found it not interesting to have a religious descussion with you, I actually responded to the comment last night thinking it was from leyla, i was very tired it seems, then this morning I discovered that it is yours, so i can't promise that i will be keen to get you an answer really, sorry
No, of course you won't find it interesting. You're probably used to having 'ajamis' cower over your hegemonic tendencies of being an Arab. Remember what you told Joe the Nabi before? You need people to agree with you because you're an Arab and therefore have access. I'd like to see you in a room with other Arabs and you can discuss what is salaat with them. Lets see what a laugh riot you are then.
Haha, ignornaance at its max, Nasib is the one that means portion, Nasib also means "Qadar", you always impress me with your ignorance with the arabic language because you work hard to show that you know it a to z , but what is funny that you always try to make the arabs look as they are the ignoranst but the truth is surely the contrary
Well, if the Arabs are the authority, shouldn't you be going to the mosque and praying with them? Or do you give yourself special authority because of your racist tendencies? Why don't you join the Baathist party, Ahmed ? Your feelings will be most appreciated there.
your sense, not the Arabic langugae sense
The 'arab language sense' says 'as-salaat' is the ritual. Why don't YOU follow that?
I guess the word " " in 1548, should mean "a portion" to you
Good point. I need to look this up. I don't have 'nsb' figured yet but that ok because I'm not an Arab fascist who has to prove myself to anyone.
By the way, where did you get the al-quraan in textual form? I'd love to quote it here.
Leyla I thought about this the whole evening and I agree that ans?b must have something to do with portions.
I am highly considering your suggestion.
But maybe it has something to do with accumulating portions and portioning wealth only for yourself ?? Having a life full of luxury??
That would also suit the conceptual relationship with khamr and maysir, I think.Good point, but we need to see how 15/48 fits into that.
Ahmed Also Leyla, if you are upset by my style regarding Mquran, I'm sorry this the only way I found to suit his style after knowing him better, I actualy used to respect his opinions when I joined, but that is not the case any more, sorry this is my honest feelings twards his opinions that degarde muslims and the arabs
Ahmed, if you weren't such a rude person, you would find the most questionable comment from me to you would be 'i disagree'. But you can't take disagreement because, lets face it, you're here to show what a great guy you are. You can't stand non-arabs questioning your authority. In short, you're a 'sunni' not of sunnah ,but of the Arabic language. Remember how shocked you were when I questioned the authority of your Arabic sources? Because THAT'S your furqaan, NOT al-quraan. You don't mind sentencing al-quraan to be a BOOK OF HISTORY just because your arabic ahbaar told you so. If you don't think you can have a good discussion with me, that's cool but bear in mind, i dont start out by saying things like 'thats laughable', 'you're ignorant' etc. All that came from YOU.
-
excuse me mate, Igtanibuh in 590 is referring to the Rijsun of the Shaitan, but because the 4 deeds were described as such then we should avoide them and avoide anything that is rijsun for that matter, you need to search the Quran for Rijsun and you will see that there are more Rijsun by the devil than the above 4
The subject matter of 5/90 is 'al-khamr' and the other 3, not amalus-shaitaan. They are described as rijsun, yes but they are the subject matter so 'ajtanibuhu' must refer to them.
True but all 4 were put as one muscular category called ?Rijsun? and the Igtinab verb in order tense was referring to a single muscular, THEREFORE IT HAS TO BE REFERRONG TO THE RIJSUN NOT THE OTHER 4, otherwise it has to have ?Hum? at the end, I?m sure you know that, what is your problem then?
to be honest, i found it not interesting to have a religious descussion with you, I actually responded to the comment last night thinking it was from leyla, i was very tired it seems, then this morning I discovered that it is yours, so i can't promise that i will be keen to get you an answer really, sorry
No, of course you won't find it interesting. You're probably used to having 'ajamis' cower over your hegemonic tendencies of being an Arab.
see, that is what I?m talking about, no wonder jax could not give you an atom weight of respect
Remember what you told Joe the Nabi before? You need people to agree with you because you're an Arab and therefore have access.
what load of non sense that was, I never told Joe as such, it seems it is a case of serious twisting by you, but I don?t want to argue with you, I just ignore it as a commonly do with most of your comments now
I'd like to see you in a room with other Arabs and you can discuss what is salaat with them. Lets see what a laugh riot you are then.
Ha ha, as if I will do what you like
Try to think in something that you like but is not related to me please, because I will let you down
Haha, ignornaance at its max, Nasib is the one that means portion, Nasib also means "Qadar", you always impress me with your ignorance with the arabic language because you work hard to show that you know it a to z , but what is funny that you always try to make the arabs look as they are the ignoranst but the truth is surely the contrary
Well, if the Arabs are the authority,
what a load of extra non sense, did I say the Arabs are the Authority?
Again your IQ is really stepping down in here, all I said Mister IQuran, that The Arabic language is the criteria not mine, neither your nor the Arabs, it just happened to be that I?m a professional in Arabic and you are a novice in that language, it also happened to be that Arabic is the language of the last warning to all of us from our God, I guess this is making you jealous or somthin - maybe?
shouldn't you be going to the mosque and praying with them?
I guess you can?t decide to me what I should do, unless you are my wife, but sorry I?m not a homo
Or do you give yourself special authority because of your racist tendencies?
I guess you mean religious authority?, sure I give myself special religious authority, but it is only destined upon myself, not even upon my wife
Why don't you join the Baathist party, Ahmed ?
is that Saddam has been party?
Your feelings will be most appreciated there.
I don?t know what their feelings are, but it seems you know them better than me
your sense, not the Arabic langugae sense
The 'arab language sense' says 'as-salaat' is the ritual. Why don't YOU follow that?
firsly can you explain to me why you wrote it
as-salaat and not al-salaat?
See, it should be al-salaat , it is just a case of the Lam in Al is being silent
Can you see the ignorance?
I guess the word " " in 1548, should mean "a portion" to you
Good point. I need to look this up. I don't have 'nsb' figured yet but that ok because I'm not an Arab fascist who has to prove myself to anyone.
cool, take all the time you wish, I?m in no rush
regarding the arab fascist comment, neither I?m
By the way, where did you get the al-quraan in textual form? I'd love to quote it here.
http//quran.muslim-web.com/
Ahmed Also Leyla, if you are upset by my style regarding Mquran, I'm sorry this the only way I found to suit his style after knowing him better, I actualy used to respect his opinions when I joined, but that is not the case any more, sorry this is my honest feelings twards his opinions that degarde muslims and the arabs
Ahmed, if you weren't such a rude person, you would find the most questionable comment from me to you would be 'i disagree'.
if you think I?m rude, then fine, it is all relative as you know, but what I found in you that you never admit your mistakes although I can assure you, you have many
But you can't take disagreement because, lets face it, you're here to show what a great guy you are.
I?m not here to show how a great guy I?m, I really careless how remote humans will judge me, I?m only here to show what I know about the Arabic Quran that took me 25 years to achieve, no one will take this from me but Allah, you want to learn something then read my comments with respect, you start to comment in sarcasm, you will only have these sorts of comments as replies from me, very simple equation in my book, no offence though, it is just a matter of not wasting time after I passed 40 and not much left to me before I meet Allah and give my account
You can't stand non-arabs questioning your authority.
as I said I have no religious authority over any one, I provide compelling evidence and most of the non Arabs provide are loads of non sense, discrepancies, and even jokes
In short, you're a 'sunni' not of sunnah ,
back again to your old trick that only the Quran aloners resort to when they run out of Ammo, LOL cool if you think I?m then please continue thinking that I?m
but of the Arabic language. Remember how shocked you were when I questioned the authority of your Arabic sources?
shocked?
What a load of rubbish that was mate, LOL
Again you questioned something that didn?t exist, you may need to go back to your drawing board
Because THAT'S your furqaan, NOT al-quraan.
LOL
Thanks again for the laugh
You don't mind sentencing al-quraan to be a BOOK OF HISTORY just because your arabic ahbaar told you so. If you don't think you can have a good discussion with me,
Arabic Ahbaar !!
Hahahaha
That was really funny mate
It seems you know everything about my life, do you work in the CIA or somthin?
that's cool but bear in mind,
cool
i dont start out by saying things like 'thats laughable', 'you're ignorant' etc. All that came from YOU.
well, if it offends you, I?m sincerely sorry, I?m a free man and I like saying what I want within limits and I know my limits
sorry again mate
-
PEACE
Brother AhmedBahgat and MQuran Its very sad reading these little insults back and forth, back and forth. It ruins the topic for other people reading it.
I ain't taking sides but your bother adults and responsible for your tongue and brains so be careful guys!!!
I know things can get heated up and I've been there and done that but in the words of brother idolfree......control your emotions and don't let it overrule your mind.....let your mind control your emotions wink (I hope I got that right brother idolfree lol)
PEACE
-
Peace bro "AB",
Peace
now this is great, we have a verse in the Quran that says there will be rivers of Khamr, hence there will be rivers of what covers our mind
makes great sense indeed, but I don't want to go to that garden with rivers of things that will cover my mind
peace
JK- Yes this was indeed a point which i couldnt grasp very well before too. But "khamr" must be referring to ALL mind covering substances otherwise we could say "well if not wine then lets take whisky(corn alcohol), heroin or other drugs and enjoy ourselves". Now i thought how could GOD leave out such a crucial point. And just like you 4715 gave me trouble until i realized that the state of paradise is entirely different. Over there we would have no more jealousy of each other which could lead us to fight, mirder, etc according to
We will remove all jealousy from their hearts. Rivers will flow beneath them, and they will say, "GOD be praised for guiding us. We could not possibly be guided, if it were not that GOD has guided us. The messengers of our Lord did bring the truth." They will be called "This is your Paradise. You have inherited it, in return for your works."
Thus a river of mind soothing NARCOTICS, AND YES ILL SAY IT AGAIN, NARCOTICS IN HEAVEN, WONT MATTER NO MORE. On the contrary they would be pleasing and it would be party forever, the party of the believers GW, "Peace!". What we must understand is that what seems wrong here on earth IS NOT SO IN ABSOULTE BUT RELATIVE TERMS, relative to the conditions which we are in. GOD Bless!