The Speed of Ligt in the Quran?
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Hello Edip
I actually know about this possible miracle years ago, I have the book of the Egyptian physics professor whom i believe discovered it over 10 years ago, I once translated his work regarding his discovery and added further sketch to simplify it, as I found it not very easy to understand, here it is for further elaboration, NOTE i could not browse the link above so I'm not sure what was in the article, but I guess it is this one
?He regulates the affair from the heaven to the earth; then shall it ascend to Him in a day the measure of which is a thousand years of what you count.?
(5)
-> it is obvious from the verse that Allah regulates the affair from the heaven to the earth? He regulates the affair from the heaven to the earth;?, also our affairs ascend to him ? then shall it ascend to Him?, the time for these affairs to ascend to Allah as is described as a day that measures a thousand years of what we count ? in a day the measure of which is a thousand years of what you count.?
-> these affairs are in constant descending and ascending, as stated by ?Abu Haian? as well, Al Alousi said the continuity of regulating the affairs from heaven to earth and vice versa is clear from the two present sense verbs ?regulates? and ?ascend? ? ?, and ? ?.
-> Also Al Razi said when Allah says ? in a day the measure of which is a thousand years of what you count.? ? ?, is a sign of the continuity of the regulation and ascending of affairs not limited to a one day, rather the one day of a unit of measurement, this is also clear when Allah said ? the measure of? ? ? , the use of the past sense ? ?, is also a sign of continuity of the affairs regulation and ascending
-> Confirming the previous point if using the past sense of the verb ?be? ? ? in Arabic is a common practise in the Arabic language to give an action a sense of continuity, we will need to look at anther verse from the Quran quickly? But to Allah belong all things in the heavens and on earth And He it is that Encompasseth all things.?
(126)
-> clear as light that the verse says that Allah encompasses all things, while the Arabic verse is using the word ? ? the past sense of ?Be? to stress the continuity of the action of compassing all things ? ? and translates to ? He it is that Encompasseth all things? as explained in the Fateh Al Bary
-> back to the original verse about regulating the affairs, the use of ? the measure of? ? ?, in the word ? the measure of? ? ? means clearly a measure, now the ? ?, the last letter in the word ??, is related to the regulation/ascending of the affairs, NOT and this an important NOT to a day as Mugahid and Abu Haian stated, they added that it can not be comprehendible that the regulation/ascending of the affairs will only take one day rather a continuos action, and the Arabic word ? ? means ?in? before the Arabic word ? ? means ?a day?, indicate that the limited day was only used as a container for the unlimited action of the regulation/ascending of the affairs, like we say the sea water is in a cup, and sure this means that some of the sea water is in the cup not the whole sea water
-> Some scholars thought that the verse 325 is indicating the depth of the universe, but this understanding is wrong because they can not prove their claim yet, and also this understanding will conflict with another verse in the Quran that indicates the spreading universe, let?s have a look at it this verse
?And it is We Who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We Who are steadily expanding it.?
(47)
-> Also the scholars who suggested that the day mentioned in the verse is a day length of the judgement day, however this understanding is flawed because the verse is clear that it is an earth day of what we count ? in a day the measure of which is a thousand years of what you count.? ? ?
-> The two words ?day? and ?year? mentioned in the verse ? in a day the measure of which is a thousand years of what you count.?, have been confirmed by the following scholars Ibn Abbas, Al Aloosi, Al Zamkhari, Ibn Kathir, Al Tabari, and Abu Haian, that it is an earth day and an earth year
-> If we look again at what Allah said ??then shall it ascend to Him in a day the measure of which is a thousand years of what you count.?, the ?what we count? as Al Zamkhari and Abu Haian confirmed that it means what humans count as years, the Quarn came clear that the 12 months of the year are based on the lunar year, and the lunar month is based on the moon always changing crescent , let?s look at the verse
?He it is Who appointed the sun a splendour and the moon a light, and measured for it (The Moon) stages, that ye might know the number of the years, and the reckoning. Allah created not (all) that save in truth. He detaileth the revelations for people who have knowledge.?
(5)
-> based on the above verse (105), the following ? in a day the measure of which is a thousand years of what you count.? ? ?, can produce a mathematical equation, based on we can calculate the distance that the moon can run in a 1000 lunar year, why we have to use the moon?, because we can use a human, or a horse for example, we need a sign that can be viewed by every one on earth and also moves in consistent and known path, and nothing will fit but the moon that is suppose to be used to calculate the years from the first place
-> we also find that Allah used the Arabic word ? ? to describe the ascending or affairs back to Him in a day measured as a thousand year of what we count, the Arabic word ? ? means ascending but NOT in a straight line, it is actually used as a common word in Arabic to describe a person who have a problem with one leg and can not walk straight, this actually describe exactly the General Theory of Relativity because the theory says that light may bends affected by gravity as it travels between the heavenly objects-> based on the above we can come up with an equation to calculate the speed of light as follow
The distance that is travelled by Gods regulation and affairs in one earth day = the distance the moon will travel in its orbit in a 1000 year
And because the moon rotates once around earth in a lunar month, then the distance travelled by the moon in 1000 lunar years will be 12000 moon orbits around earth
The above equation can be as follow
The max speed in the heaven and earth x The time of an earth day = 12000 x The length of the moon orbit
The above equation can be as follow
The max speed in the heaven and earth = (12000 x The length of the moon orbit) / The time of an earth day
And again the equation will be
The max speed in the heaven and earth = (12000 x The moon average speed x Lunar month) / The time of an earth day
-> when it comes to calculating the moon day or even any day on any planet including earth, it is a known fact that all scientists calculate it based on the Sidereal System i.e. based on very far stars and not on the sun , the calculation based on the sun is called ?The Synodic System?, the advantage of the Sidereal System that it get rid of the effect of the earth rotation around the sun
-> for the earth for example the day length according to the Synodic System is 24 hours = 86400 Seconds, while under the Sidereal System and by using atomic clocks, the earth day is 23564.0906 = 86164.0905 Seconds
-> for the moon the Synodic month is on average = 29.53059 day, however from the distant stars as a datum and according to the Sidereal System and measured by atomic clocks= 27.321661 day = 65571986 Hours
Please refer to Macmillan Dictionary of Astronomy. The Macmillan Press (1985), for the above mentioned numbers regarding the earth day and moon month under the Sidereal System
-> we can calculate the average speed of the moon as follow
The moon average speed = (2 x PI x Average distance between the earth and moon) / The moon month under the Sidereal System
The moon average speed = ( 2 x 3.1416 x 384264 ) / 65571986 = 3682.07 km/h , and this is the official moon average speed recognised by Nasa
Looking at the next sketch
http//mail.forte.com.au/ahmed/quran/speed.jpg
- The angle X is the angle that the earth moves around the sun in one Sidereal lunar month , i.e in a time = 27.321661 days
to calculate the angle X, we know the earth rotates 360 degrees around the sun in 365.25636 day, this will lead to
angle X = 27.321661 x 369 / 365,25636 = 26.92848 degrees
- and because the average speed of the moon recognised by Nasa and = 3682.07 km/h is calculated while on rotating earth around the sun, this average speed is actual more than the real and true average speed of the moon while the moon is rotating on a stationary earth, but because the earth changes direction the average moon speed changes accordingly in direction and the moon will move to point (2) after completing a one Sidereal lunar month, so to need to calculate the moon true and average speed, the angle X must be taken into account, this will lead to
The moon average speed around a stationary earth (S1) = The moon average speed around a rotating earth (S2) x Cosine X
The moon average speed around a stationary earth (S1) = 3682.07 x Cosine 26.92848
The moon average speed around a stationary earth (S1) = 3682.07 x 0.89157
The moon average speed around a stationary earth (S1) = 3282.82315 km/h, which is the moon average speed after we removed the earth rotation around the sun effect
Now we can substitute all the variables in our equation with the calculated figures as follow
The max speed in the heaven and earth = (12000 x The moon average speed x Lunar month) / The time of an earth day using the Sidereal System
The max speed in the heaven and earth = (12000 x 3282.82315 x 65571986) / 86164.0905
The max speed in the heaven and earth = 299792.5 km/h = the exact speed of light as we know it today which is = 299792.458 km/h
cheers
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Hello
just a quick not as I manged to broswe the link above
under the Time Dilation sub heading regarding
The angels and the Spirit ascend to Him in a day, the measure of which is fifty thousand years.
we read the following comment straight after
Here angels will experience 1 day while humans will measure it as 50,000 years.
704 NEVER said that the 50,000 years are measured according to our years count as it did in 325,
(Allah) Rules the cosmic affair from the heavens to the Earth. Then this affair travels to Him a distance in one day, at a measure of one thousand years of what you count.
Peace
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UMMM I think yu all are reacing a bit. The word of god would have to be made simple for man. could it be that it simply says, basically, that as god knows all things a lifetime is but a blink of an eye in the grand scheme of things. It creates the illusion of how small we are in comparrison (I dare you to find an religion that does not preach the same) Where is the proof? It is poetic expression. Of COURSE god encompasses all things. I mean isn;t that what ALL people believe of thier god or gods? And if there is a heaven, well it would be practical for it to expand as new souls enter it right? About the moon, well there is another one that is accounted for in ALL societies as a measure of time. No big miracle there. All that takes is one or two months watching it in the sky. why on earth must it all be made so much more complicated than it is? If it a miracle in the koran, then how would you explain the intricacies and percision of the myan and egyptiam calenders? made BEFORE the koran?
HHMMM wasn't it in indiana jones and the last crusade where they emphasised the need NOT to over complicate something to figure it out? The SIMPLEST answer is usually the right one
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UMMM I think yu all are reacing a bit. The word of god would have to be made simple for man. could it be that it simply says, basically, that as god knows all things a lifetime is but a blink of an eye in the grand scheme of things. It creates the illusion of how small we are in comparrison (I dare you to find an religion that does not preach the same) Where is the proof? It is poetic expression. Of COURSE god encompasses all things. I mean isn;t that what ALL people believe of thier god or gods? And if there is a heaven, well it would be practical for it to expand as new souls enter it right? About the moon, well there is another one that is accounted for in ALL societies as a measure of time. No big miracle there. All that takes is one or two months watching it in the sky. why on earth must it all be made so much more complicated than it is? If it a miracle in the koran, then how would you explain the intricacies and percision of the myan and egyptiam calenders? made BEFORE the koran?
HHMMM wasn't it in indiana jones and the last crusade where they emphasised the need NOT to over complicate something to figure it out? The SIMPLEST answer is usually the right one
Sawtooth, the question is not about how time is measured, which is an easy feat to do. The question is about the speed of light, which is a relatively recent discovery (must be this century for the precision we have). It is another one of those proofs which clearly shows (yet again) that Muhammed wasn't just inventing things.
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Only if that is what you are looking for in it. Way too Divinci code for me. Like i have said before, you can find anything in anything if you look hard enough.
why don't you show us that you can find something?
anything, just the simple thing and I will believe you
you only talk without thikning that is what it seems to me, you sound like an old friend again
salam
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You are telling me that this proof is in calculating how long it takes an angel to get from a book of unknown (exact) origin to earth? UUMMMM Ok that's the question. As far as your challenge, well tell me what you want me to find and where, I will take out my old calculus book and I am sure I can find a formula to fit.
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You are telling me that this proof is in calculating how long it takes an angel to get from a book of unknown (exact) origin to earth? UUMMMM Ok that's the question. As far as your challenge, well tell me what you want me to find and where, I will take out my old calculus book and I am sure I can find a formula to fit.
Sure... find a natural phenomenon that the Koran describes, and try to prove it false using the scientific method. You'll be working until you die though.
Oh, and as far as the original question, it is a bit more involved... basically first you take the speed of an angel as given in the Koran (which is in simple everyday language) and convert it to the units we normally use in science (km/h). Then you realize that angles are made of light (another Koran statement), and most logically would therefore travel at the speed of light. And low and behold, you realize that the result of the conversion you made for the speed of the angel exactly equals the scientifically measured speed of light. This shows yet again the consistency of the Koran with natural phenomena.
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You are telling me that this proof is in calculating how long it takes an angel to get from a book of unknown (exact) origin to earth? UUMMMM Ok that's the question. As far as your challenge, well tell me what you want me to find and where, I will take out my old calculus book and I am sure I can find a formula to fit.
can you please calculate to us the gravity on Jupiter comaperd to earth gravity
and please show us your clear calculations
thanks
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Ahmed, you are miss understanding me (not surprisingly) You need to give me a challenge then give me a place to find it. What I am saying is that you take the Koran. you can find anything in the world you want to in it just as you can in the bible or anything else. you find what you WANT to find and if you know enough math and science crap i am sure you can prove it.
take this little angel theory here. One would have to know the exact location of the book the angels refer to. the guy took a guess (just outside the outer atmosphere I believe he said?) PULEEEEZ!!!!! How far people will reach to prove something to them self and the world is astonishing.
Honestly... What exactly IS the reason for all this proof. is it to prove something to the world or yourselves? If there is THAT much need to find proof, then it ain't faith
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Honestly... What exactly IS the reason for all this proof. is it to prove something to the world or yourselves? If there is THAT much need to find proof, then it ain't faith
Agreed, sawtooth. Faith is not a matter of empirical investigation. Besides, reading scientific facts into the Qur'an text can be dangerous because scientific facts can change.
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Ahmed, you are miss understanding me (not surprisingly) You need to give me a challenge then give me a place to find it. What I am saying is that you take the Koran. you can find anything in the world you want to in it just as you can in the bible or anything else. you find what you WANT to find and if you know enough math and science crap i am sure you can prove it.
ok if a get some data about Jupiter that were collected by Nasa, would you be able to calculate the gravity on jupiter?
take this little angel theory here. One would have to know the exact location of the book the angels refer to. the guy took a guess (just outside the outer atmosphere I believe he said?) PULEEEEZ!!!!! How far people will reach to prove something to them self and the world is astonishing.
forget the angels, I guess whoever suggested that the angels are caped by the speed of light are wrong because the verse about one day = 50,000 years may incline that the angels have speeds faster than the speed of light
we are talking the speed of light in a verse where the angels were not mentioned, only the ascending of our affairs
Honestly... What exactly IS the reason for all this proof. is it to prove something to the world or yourselves? If there is THAT much need to find proof, then it ain't faith
the reason is simply increasing our confidence in what we believe in
prophet Abraham was a solid believer in Allah yet he asked Allah to show him how He ca revive the dead, Allah asked Ibrahim, why he want to see that if you he is a solid believer
Abraham responded to Allah, that he only want to increase the confidence in the faith in his heart
got it?
salam
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Honestly... What exactly IS the reason for all this proof. is it to prove something to the world or yourselves? If there is THAT much need to find proof, then it ain't faith
the reason is simply increasing our confidence in what we believe in
prophet Abraham was a solid believer in Allah yet he asked Allah to show him how He ca revive the dead, Allah asked Ibrahim, why he want to see that if you he is a solid believer
Abraham responded to Allah, that he only want to increase the confidence in the faith in his heart
got it?
salam
there is never certitude then. Then, when you pick a part of the book and apply it as truth, it could be that it is not truth, couldn't it?
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Honestly... What exactly IS the reason for all this proof. is it to prove something to the world or yourselves? If there is THAT much need to find proof, then it ain't faith
the reason is simply increasing our confidence in what we believe in
prophet Abraham was a solid believer in Allah yet he asked Allah to show him how He ca revive the dead, Allah asked Ibrahim, why he want to see that if you he is a solid believer
Abraham responded to Allah, that he only want to increase the confidence in the faith in his heart
got it?
salam
there is never certitude then. Then, when you pick a part of the book and apply it as truth, it could be that it is not truth, couldn't it?
Hello
It could be, but the evidences so far incline that it could not be a coincidence or a mistake
even the enemy of Islam agree that the equation extracted from the Quran is logically sound, their arguments are further down the calculations
salam
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Agreed, sawtooth. Faith is not a matter of empirical investigation. Besides, reading scientific facts into the Qur'an text can be dangerous because scientific facts can change.
And when the scientific facts change or is undermined by new observation then it does a lot of damage to the spiritual message of the Scripture.
Regards,
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i think it's okay for people to challenge and scrutinize the quran scientifically. that is what god has challenged everyone in the quran itself, isn't it?
if we hadn't scrutinized the bible scientifically, we wouldn't know if it was really battered by men or not.
if the quran was really god's words, we shouldn't need to get worried if it will contradict the science.
if there is anything contradictory, i think it's either the science that is used to prove it is wrong or the quran itself is wrong. even if it will put people in a spiritual confusion, but it's their right to choose to believe it or not. it might be a test for firm believers too. there is no compulsion in religion after all.