The Speed of Ligt in the Quran?
-
Hello
just a quick not as I manged to broswe the link above
under the Time Dilation sub heading regarding
The angels and the Spirit ascend to Him in a day, the measure of which is fifty thousand years.
we read the following comment straight after
Here angels will experience 1 day while humans will measure it as 50,000 years.
704 NEVER said that the 50,000 years are measured according to our years count as it did in 325,
(Allah) Rules the cosmic affair from the heavens to the Earth. Then this affair travels to Him a distance in one day, at a measure of one thousand years of what you count.
Peace
-
UMMM I think yu all are reacing a bit. The word of god would have to be made simple for man. could it be that it simply says, basically, that as god knows all things a lifetime is but a blink of an eye in the grand scheme of things. It creates the illusion of how small we are in comparrison (I dare you to find an religion that does not preach the same) Where is the proof? It is poetic expression. Of COURSE god encompasses all things. I mean isn;t that what ALL people believe of thier god or gods? And if there is a heaven, well it would be practical for it to expand as new souls enter it right? About the moon, well there is another one that is accounted for in ALL societies as a measure of time. No big miracle there. All that takes is one or two months watching it in the sky. why on earth must it all be made so much more complicated than it is? If it a miracle in the koran, then how would you explain the intricacies and percision of the myan and egyptiam calenders? made BEFORE the koran?
HHMMM wasn't it in indiana jones and the last crusade where they emphasised the need NOT to over complicate something to figure it out? The SIMPLEST answer is usually the right one
-
UMMM I think yu all are reacing a bit. The word of god would have to be made simple for man. could it be that it simply says, basically, that as god knows all things a lifetime is but a blink of an eye in the grand scheme of things. It creates the illusion of how small we are in comparrison (I dare you to find an religion that does not preach the same) Where is the proof? It is poetic expression. Of COURSE god encompasses all things. I mean isn;t that what ALL people believe of thier god or gods? And if there is a heaven, well it would be practical for it to expand as new souls enter it right? About the moon, well there is another one that is accounted for in ALL societies as a measure of time. No big miracle there. All that takes is one or two months watching it in the sky. why on earth must it all be made so much more complicated than it is? If it a miracle in the koran, then how would you explain the intricacies and percision of the myan and egyptiam calenders? made BEFORE the koran?
HHMMM wasn't it in indiana jones and the last crusade where they emphasised the need NOT to over complicate something to figure it out? The SIMPLEST answer is usually the right one
Sawtooth, the question is not about how time is measured, which is an easy feat to do. The question is about the speed of light, which is a relatively recent discovery (must be this century for the precision we have). It is another one of those proofs which clearly shows (yet again) that Muhammed wasn't just inventing things.
-
Only if that is what you are looking for in it. Way too Divinci code for me. Like i have said before, you can find anything in anything if you look hard enough.
why don't you show us that you can find something?
anything, just the simple thing and I will believe you
you only talk without thikning that is what it seems to me, you sound like an old friend again
salam
-
You are telling me that this proof is in calculating how long it takes an angel to get from a book of unknown (exact) origin to earth? UUMMMM Ok that's the question. As far as your challenge, well tell me what you want me to find and where, I will take out my old calculus book and I am sure I can find a formula to fit.
-
You are telling me that this proof is in calculating how long it takes an angel to get from a book of unknown (exact) origin to earth? UUMMMM Ok that's the question. As far as your challenge, well tell me what you want me to find and where, I will take out my old calculus book and I am sure I can find a formula to fit.
Sure... find a natural phenomenon that the Koran describes, and try to prove it false using the scientific method. You'll be working until you die though.
Oh, and as far as the original question, it is a bit more involved... basically first you take the speed of an angel as given in the Koran (which is in simple everyday language) and convert it to the units we normally use in science (km/h). Then you realize that angles are made of light (another Koran statement), and most logically would therefore travel at the speed of light. And low and behold, you realize that the result of the conversion you made for the speed of the angel exactly equals the scientifically measured speed of light. This shows yet again the consistency of the Koran with natural phenomena.
-
You are telling me that this proof is in calculating how long it takes an angel to get from a book of unknown (exact) origin to earth? UUMMMM Ok that's the question. As far as your challenge, well tell me what you want me to find and where, I will take out my old calculus book and I am sure I can find a formula to fit.
can you please calculate to us the gravity on Jupiter comaperd to earth gravity
and please show us your clear calculations
thanks
-
Ahmed, you are miss understanding me (not surprisingly) You need to give me a challenge then give me a place to find it. What I am saying is that you take the Koran. you can find anything in the world you want to in it just as you can in the bible or anything else. you find what you WANT to find and if you know enough math and science crap i am sure you can prove it.
take this little angel theory here. One would have to know the exact location of the book the angels refer to. the guy took a guess (just outside the outer atmosphere I believe he said?) PULEEEEZ!!!!! How far people will reach to prove something to them self and the world is astonishing.
Honestly... What exactly IS the reason for all this proof. is it to prove something to the world or yourselves? If there is THAT much need to find proof, then it ain't faith
-
Honestly... What exactly IS the reason for all this proof. is it to prove something to the world or yourselves? If there is THAT much need to find proof, then it ain't faith
Agreed, sawtooth. Faith is not a matter of empirical investigation. Besides, reading scientific facts into the Qur'an text can be dangerous because scientific facts can change.
-
Ahmed, you are miss understanding me (not surprisingly) You need to give me a challenge then give me a place to find it. What I am saying is that you take the Koran. you can find anything in the world you want to in it just as you can in the bible or anything else. you find what you WANT to find and if you know enough math and science crap i am sure you can prove it.
ok if a get some data about Jupiter that were collected by Nasa, would you be able to calculate the gravity on jupiter?
take this little angel theory here. One would have to know the exact location of the book the angels refer to. the guy took a guess (just outside the outer atmosphere I believe he said?) PULEEEEZ!!!!! How far people will reach to prove something to them self and the world is astonishing.
forget the angels, I guess whoever suggested that the angels are caped by the speed of light are wrong because the verse about one day = 50,000 years may incline that the angels have speeds faster than the speed of light
we are talking the speed of light in a verse where the angels were not mentioned, only the ascending of our affairs
Honestly... What exactly IS the reason for all this proof. is it to prove something to the world or yourselves? If there is THAT much need to find proof, then it ain't faith
the reason is simply increasing our confidence in what we believe in
prophet Abraham was a solid believer in Allah yet he asked Allah to show him how He ca revive the dead, Allah asked Ibrahim, why he want to see that if you he is a solid believer
Abraham responded to Allah, that he only want to increase the confidence in the faith in his heart
got it?
salam
-
Honestly... What exactly IS the reason for all this proof. is it to prove something to the world or yourselves? If there is THAT much need to find proof, then it ain't faith
the reason is simply increasing our confidence in what we believe in
prophet Abraham was a solid believer in Allah yet he asked Allah to show him how He ca revive the dead, Allah asked Ibrahim, why he want to see that if you he is a solid believer
Abraham responded to Allah, that he only want to increase the confidence in the faith in his heart
got it?
salam
there is never certitude then. Then, when you pick a part of the book and apply it as truth, it could be that it is not truth, couldn't it?
-
Honestly... What exactly IS the reason for all this proof. is it to prove something to the world or yourselves? If there is THAT much need to find proof, then it ain't faith
the reason is simply increasing our confidence in what we believe in
prophet Abraham was a solid believer in Allah yet he asked Allah to show him how He ca revive the dead, Allah asked Ibrahim, why he want to see that if you he is a solid believer
Abraham responded to Allah, that he only want to increase the confidence in the faith in his heart
got it?
salam
there is never certitude then. Then, when you pick a part of the book and apply it as truth, it could be that it is not truth, couldn't it?
Hello
It could be, but the evidences so far incline that it could not be a coincidence or a mistake
even the enemy of Islam agree that the equation extracted from the Quran is logically sound, their arguments are further down the calculations
salam
-
Agreed, sawtooth. Faith is not a matter of empirical investigation. Besides, reading scientific facts into the Qur'an text can be dangerous because scientific facts can change.
And when the scientific facts change or is undermined by new observation then it does a lot of damage to the spiritual message of the Scripture.
Regards,
-
i think it's okay for people to challenge and scrutinize the quran scientifically. that is what god has challenged everyone in the quran itself, isn't it?
if we hadn't scrutinized the bible scientifically, we wouldn't know if it was really battered by men or not.
if the quran was really god's words, we shouldn't need to get worried if it will contradict the science.
if there is anything contradictory, i think it's either the science that is used to prove it is wrong or the quran itself is wrong. even if it will put people in a spiritual confusion, but it's their right to choose to believe it or not. it might be a test for firm believers too. there is no compulsion in religion after all. -
Dear Ahmad Baghdad
Thank you for posting that article. I knew this issue for about two decades. However, the link that I posted contained the most impressive scientific argument for the two DIFFERENT numbers given in the Quran regarding the speed of angles.
As I said, I have not yet studied the article carefully. Even if the authors doctored the equations, their skill in doing so is beyond belief.
What is most interesting is the ROUNDNESS of both numbers. Let's for a moment isolate the issue from the Quran and speed of angles and look at it in pure mathematical perspective.
The numbers, because of their visible roundness, appear to be arbitrary chosen. But, how in the world, arguably with little manipulation (such as correction for the gravity), both formulas can produce the speed of light in such a precision not for one, but for BOTH number 1000 and 50,000.
If anyone challenges the deliberate choice of those numbers pregnant to the speed of light should come up with the speed of light with similar precision, for other round numbers, say for 3,000 and 70,000 by using the well-known basic formulas of velocity and relativity.
Peace,
Edip -
Dear Ahmad Baghdad
Thank you for posting that article. I knew this issue for about two decades. However, the link that I posted contained the most impressive scientific argument for the two DIFFERENT numbers given in the Quran regarding the speed of angles.
As I said, I have not yet studied the article carefully. Even if the authors doctored the equations, their skill in doing so is beyond belief.
What is most interesting is the ROUNDNESS of both numbers. Let's for a moment isolate the issue from the Quran and speed of angles and look at it in pure mathematical perspective.
The numbers, because of their visible roundness, appear to be arbitrary chosen. But, how in the world, arguably with little manipulation (such as correction for the gravity), both formulas can produce the speed of light in such a precision not for one, but for BOTH number 1000 and 50,000.
If anyone challenges the deliberate choice of those numbers pregnant to the speed of light should come up with the speed of light with similar precision, for other round numbers, say for 3,000 and 70,000 by using the well-known basic formulas of velocity and relativity.
Peace,
EdipThank you Brother Edip
I just printed the article and will go through iot tonight in great details, I was not sure that the number 50,000 was also used to produce the exact value of the speed of light, this is very interesting indeed and must be studied throughly
Cheers mate