gay people and islam
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Peace be upon you,
You see i cannot debate with someone who is completely ruled by something else.
That would be observable LAW.
Fine, homosexuality is perverted
Correct, just one of MANY perversions in the world.
anyone who does it will go to hell in a handbasket
One who manifests those actons is alread in the fire in respects to that action. Being controlled by LUST is to be in Hell.
and the whole world should reject any human who entertains the thought
The whole world should reject the perverse act, not the human being. We should want for our brothers and sisters what we want for ourselves. I CERTAINLY would want someone to correct me and show me the TRUTH about what I am doing that is wrong.
even if it leads to teaching hatred and fear to children.
There is nothing in my approach that would teach children hatred and fear. In fact, my position is to teach humans to TRANSCEND EMOTIONS, such as LUST. Hate and Fear are also emotions that must be transcended, so there should be no reason for you to worry about the children. If you were really worried about children you would prevent them from seeing such perverse images.
You win
Not me, God's Universal LAW.
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They all STARTED as hunter gatherer's/ When becoming sedintary, they developed the classic social disorders that go along with it
When i mentioned the rapists and such i was referring to the RECONDITIONING treatments tried, not prison. They fail. If people an be MADE to become homosexual, then why can they not be MADE NOT to be rapists?
what is a "nafs"?
I didn't say "smoking" was natural, what I said was natural, is doing what we enjoy and at times that entails things that are bad for the body.
As for TV being used to promote riteous behaviour, that is actually all over the set over the last few years, at least in the US. there has been a major call on dramas put out to encourage humans to see and correct certain faults and to encourage tolerance, inner understanding and peaceful, understood ways. Just open your eyes.
Plus there is the 700 club (despirte the fact that it is a christian thing, it still promotes many of the same behaviours and choices promoted by islam)
Does this work either? I doubt it. TV is entertainment. Choices are influenced far more by the home, neighborhood, comunity and experience.
As for homosexuality, I don't think that is a choice, you are or you are not. People may at times experiment to find out for sure, but it still comes down to what floats your boat. denying what you are is as much a sin as faking who you are
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Peace be upon you Peaceful Muslim,
idolfree1 wrote
You are comparing skin color to human choices/actions.I suppose this is where the difference in understanding lies. U see homosexuality as a human choice.
I am opposed to the idea of homosexuality as a choice as well just as I am opposed to the idea of casual sex, swinging, violent sex, group sex etc
But in whom homosexuality may be biological(these people loathe the idea of being with the opposite sex and are only attracted to members of same sex), We cant do much about it than accept the reality, I guess.Yes, this is where we differ, but lets look at some evidence. A person is born with brown skin, there is no doubt to this being biological. However, all homosexuals are not born homosexual. It is a fact that there are many homosexuals who havechildren, but later TURN homosexual. Are you stating that is biological but just took some time to come out?
I respect your opinion if you say yes, but I see that as a weak excuse to allow a perverse behavior.
And again, I feel the need to explain, its not about attacking any group of humans,its about promoting correct NATURAL behavior.
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Peace
God clearly determines that the pairs/zawj are male/female.
O mankind! reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single person, created, of like nature, His mate, and from them twain scattered (like seeds) countless men and women;- reverence Allah, through whom ye demand your mutual (rights), and (reverence) the wombs (That bore you) for Allah ever watches over you.
The pair described here are the male and the female sexes of the species of mankind. From these mates are scattered forth other males and females. Homosexuals males and females cannot do such a thing. There are even some straight people who cannot but I do not feel it is an argument that because of this infertility that it is okay for the female to come to the female and the male to the male.
I also think one should study the marriage according to the reading and see if same-sex couples fit into the procedure.
Joe
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Peace be upon you Sawtooth?
They all STARTED as hunter gatherer's/ When becoming sedintary, they developed the classic social disorders that go along with it
Who is the THEY you are talking about? I am not even following where this part of the discussion is going. It seems you are saying that vegetarians are not natural, that everyone started out hunting animals.
When i mentioned the rapists and such i was referring to the RECONDITIONING treatments tried, not prison. They fail. If people an be MADE to become homosexual, then why can they not be MADE NOT to be rapists?
They can, if they can be taught to transced the emotional enslavement. But most in the world are oblivious to such concepts.
what is a "nafs"?
Your spirit/mind which you are responsible for. You can metaphorize it as the SOIL of your garden that you must plant the proper seeds into so that you REAP the right actions.
I didn't say "smoking" was natural, what I said was natural, is doing what we enjoy and at times that entails things that are bad for the body.
If you are led by EMOTIONS (what you enjoy at that moment), then you are in hell. Get BEHIND me Satan, is what the wise man said! The Emotions must FOLOW, not lead. DO you realize that those who smoke ENJOY smoking? Are you saying it is NATURAL to follow that "enjoyment"? It is NEVER natural to smoke, even if you "enjoy" it. Do you realize that what you "enjoy" is a CONDITION succeptible to CHANGE?
As for TV being used to promote riteous behaviour, that is actually all over the set over the last few years, at least in the US. there has been a major call on dramas put out to encourage humans to see and correct certain faults and to encourage tolerance, inner understanding and peaceful, understood ways. Just open your eyes.
My eyes are wide open, the ones outside and inside. TV promotes EMOTIONALIY, which is the real Devil. If you think I am the one who is blind, then lets start listing shows and will prove to you what I am saying.
Plus there is the 700 club (despirte the fact that it is a christian thing, it still promotes many of the same behaviours and choices promoted by islam)
lol Are you serious? A show that says that Ariel Sharons illness was because he is living in a land that is not his? (or whatever foolishness he said) That is the same show you are talking about?
Does this work either? I doubt it.
I agree! lol You have not names one righteous show. You have only repeated SLOGANS, just like tobacco companies who give you the SLOGANS about cigarrettes being bad for your health but at the same time spending billions in advertising, etc.
TV is entertainment. Choices are influenced far more by the home, neighborhood, comunity and experience.
Sure, thats why its called a Television PROGRAM ?
I agree, it is CULTURE that produces the effects, but you have to realize that TV is a big part of culture.
As for homosexuality, I don't think that is a choice, you are or you are not. People may at times experiment to find out for sure, but it still comes down to what floats your boat. denying what you are is as much a sin as faking who you are
Experiment to find out? What will tell them through the experimentation process that they are homosexual or not? Some EMOTION? shock
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peace idolfree, everybody
there's just one thing that hits me in your position, sorry if it may be a bit out of the subject - even though mentioned above.
You state that the sole purpose of penis and vagina "sockets" is to produce life and this should mean that once we have the amount of kids we 'decided' to have we should stop having sexual relations with our spouses cause we're supposed to be chaste... roll
So in a way, a couple that doesn't manage to produce these kids has at least the pleasure of continuing their activities - kind of a consolation prize lol
No really, i believe that we also have a right to enjoy the good things of life as long as it's not to the detriment of others. And tell me what is more beautiful than a loving physical relation ?
elke
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Peace be upon you,
To those who favor homsexuality-
Is it okay for humans to have sex with animals? Even if they "love" thier animals? Perhaps that falls under one of the NON PRIMARY uses of "plugs and sockets". Someone please advise me.
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Peace be upon you,
To those who favor homsexuality-
Is it okay for humans to have sex with animals? Even if they "love" thier animals? Perhaps that falls under one of the NON PRIMARY uses of "plugs and sockets". Someone please advise me.
yup that's right, sounds good to me
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U see homosexuality as a human choice.
I am opposed to the idea of homosexuality as a choice as well just as I am opposed to the idea of casual sex, swinging, violent sex, group sex etc
I understood about you being opposed to the idea of homosexuality being a choice (even though I'm not in agreement), but I didn't quite understand the comparisons that followed after. ? Are you saying those aren't choices (like homosexuality)?Peace
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The idea thrown around here seems to be that if one is opposed to homosexuality, automatically means that the individual is FOR punishment/exile/stoning of the homosexuals. If I'm not mistaken, there's only one person (maybe two) who agree with this idea at all.
Can one say they're against something, as Kyle pointed out numerous times, and speak up against it, without the follow-up of violence? idea
Peace
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Peace be upon you Elke,
there's just one thing that hits me in your position, sorry if it may be a bit out of the subject - even though mentioned above.
No problem, lets hear it D
You state that the sole purpose of penis and vagina "sockets" is to produce life
No, we also use them to get rid of waste matter. The purpose of the SEXUAL ACT is to produce life.
and this should mean that once we have the amount of kids we 'decided' to have we should stop having sexual relations with our spouses cause we're supposed to be chaste...
By chaste I mean refrainig from excess, not virginity or celibacy. Sister Elena also asked me a similar question to which I truthfully can not answer at this time. There is the position that there are other aspects of the sexual act between man and women that we should understand. It deals with sexual energy and other metaphysical topics that I am not learned in at this time.
But in any case, the goal of sex is orgasm, is it not? What happens when a human reaches orgasm? What is the purpose of that automatic reaction?
So in a way, a couple that doesn't manage to produce these kids has at least the pleasure of continuing their activities - kind of a consolation prize
I will agree at this point until I learn more, and that is based on my emotional conditioning towards sex, which TV and magazines watse no efforts on reinforcing. D However, it would make more sense and would be more responsible t emulate the TRUE form, without being EXCESSIVE, rather than go to the extreme just for the emotion of LUST.
No really, i believe that we also have a right to enjoy the good things of life as long as it's not to the detriment of others. And tell me what is more beautiful than a loving physical relation ?
Peace is the most beautiful thing there is, far superior to sexual pleasure.
If a man likes having sex with farm animals, and "feels" justified in his perversion, even if it is by himself on a farm, should we not be concerned? Dont we want for all what we want for ourselves? We have to develop more ONENESS, there is too much disconnection in this topic, too much "over there" talk, instead of ONENESS talk. Mankind is ONE COMMUNITY, seperation is the devils tool.
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Peace be upon you Elena,
idolfree1 wrote
To those who favor homsexuality-
a moment,
I don't favour anything, I am standing up agaisnt intolerance like that 'exile' ideas stated in this same thread.Then I was not addressing this post to you D
Tolerance- sympathy or indulgence for beliefs or practices differing from or conflicting with one's own
However, in regards to tolerance, should we be tolerant of people having sex with farm animals?
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The idea thrown around here seems to be that if one is opposed to homosexuality, automatically means that the individual is FOR punishment/exile/stoning of the homosexuals. If I'm not mistaken, there's only one person (maybe two) who agree with this idea at all.
Can one say they're against something, as Kyle pointed out numerous times, and speak up against it, without the follow-up of violence? idea
Peace
it is difficult to make the two things fit. I mean, every time that the word 'perversion' is used here or when equating homosexuality with children molestation I find those expressions denigrating for the homosexual people who don't commit children molestation, abuse, or any other crime. It is not direct violence but I find it intolerant, as much time it is repeated 'we are not against the person'
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Peace be upon you Sawtooth,
To those who favor homsexuality-
Is it okay for humans to have sex with animals? Even if they "love" thier animals? Perhaps that falls under one of the NON PRIMARY uses of "plugs and sockets". Someone please advise me.
yup that's right, sounds good to me
You see, when you allow the emotions to lead, there is no end to the perversion of both thought and act.
Thank you for your honesty at least, hopefully it will make the seriousness of this topic clear to others.
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idolfree.... When in adoleselce, SOME people find themselves confused over what they are feeling in regards to others. Some may find that they are atracted to an individual and feel that they are either one way or another sexually and look into those feelings. Some find out they are homosexuals, some find out they were confusing their emotions. THAT is experimentation. Emtions are not always easy to figure out, but sexual atraction coes down to how a body reacts. it DOES or it DOESN'T
and YES that goes for both genders. Sometimes the IDEA of a taboo can be a turn on while the reality proves to be a complete turnoff, but you don't know until you put it to the test SOMETIMES
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Peace idol-free and all. With the example of farm animals,rape,child-abuse etc..These are wrong...Why? Because there is no consent from the abused. What can also be harmful is abusing the trust/vulnerability of members of society who have either not yet reached maturity, or have not come to understand their sexuality.
Peace all. -
Peace be upon you Elena,
Zenje
Can one say they're against something, as Kyle pointed out numerous times, and speak up against it, without the follow-up of violence?Elena
it is difficult to make the two things fit. I mean, every time that the word 'perversion' is used here or when equating homosexuality with children molestation I find those expressions denigrating for the homosexual people who don't commit children molestation, abuse, or any other crime. It is not direct violence but I find it intolerant, as much time it is repeated 'we are not against the person'Respected sister, you have to understand it is your FEELINGS(emotions) about ths situation that are causing you not to make the two things fit.
The human will NEVER see clearly until emotions are taken out of the reasoning process.
Sister, I cant sugar coat what is obvious. A perversion is a perversion.
Main Entry per?ver?sion
Pronunciation p&r-'v&r-zh&n, -sh&n
Function noun
1 the action of perverting the condition of being perverted
2 a perverted form; especially an aberrant sexual practice especially when habitual and preferred to normal coitusOn another note, why cant we also address those Homosexuals that DO molest like the Catholic Priest Epedemic? Are they all born homosexuals also?
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Peace be upon you Elena,
However, in regards to tolerance, should we be tolerant of people having sex with farm animals?
Elena
again equating homosexuals with other kind of peopleThis question is about tolerance of sexual acts, not human beings. Please understand the difference. Do not get "angry" wih me, stay at PEACE and reason with me.