gay people and islam

unknownuser

Peace AhmedBahgat,

forget Usama, who the hell is he?

A NATIVE ARABIC SPEAKER, I believe.)

I wonder how an educated woman like ya takes a thug as an example and a leader?, well you can take him an exmaple to you or to the confused muslims in the middle east and Isia, but please don't force him on me, thanks

rotfl Where on earth did u get that idea that I take him as an example and leader?
He is an example of NATIVE ARABIC SPEAKER though wink

and what this child marriage you are talking about?, would you care to elborate please?

To start,
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4440

no sister, I want you to elborate, in a short paragraph, I really don;t have time to go through other material now, I have enough in hand, just explain to me your understanding, thanks

I am giving u facts.

also I have to tell you that Iran, Afganistan, Turkey, Pakistan, Indonasia, are not bloody arabs

What about SAudi Arabia? Rnt they the arabs? wink

so what, or do you mean because the Kaaba is there, then the S A is the Islamic leader or somethin, well my guess most kinfgs of that country will burn in hell

therefore you missed the plot here, I'm talking about the highly educated arabs, not the arabs from behind the cow

) Dont all NATIVE ARABIC SPEAKERS know arabic language?

of course not, they all know how to speak the public arabicm, you know the street language, now to judhge the Quran, please don't bring me a junkie from the arabs street, we need a high intellect unbiased fluent arabic speaker
for example Ali Sina on faith freedom, he claims to be a fluent Arabic speaker, and I may agree with that, I will also agree that he may be highly educated, but is he biased?, oh yeh he is
see we need many factors to come togther for the perfect understanding of the Quran, now the others who can't get all these factors, can ask the ones who have it

sure, that is why we have the preserved and clear arabic Quran, so for non arabs to come and translate it the way they want to suit their needs is unacceptable, while the CLEAR ARABIC WORDS ARE OBVIOUS TO ANY NATIVE ARABIC SPEAKER

OK, Now u mean the educated ones.......fine, Isnt the king of Saudi Arabia an educated Arab?

I don't really know about that, as i don't give a fluke about the king of S A, who the hell is he?, oh yeh aother human who pisses like us, fart like us and dies like us, the king never wrote a book explaining the Quran anyway, you have no point here really

Even Osama Bin Laden was an educated graduate wink He earned a degree in economics and public administation from King Abdulaziz University in Jeddah in 1981.

I'm sorry you got this really wrong, when I said highly educated, I meant exactly as how the Quran described it which is the knoweldge of Allah and the scriptures not the knowledge of economics and atoms

U can see quite clealy from our conversation how false the following statement is

sure, that is why we have the preserved and clear arabic Quran, so for non arabs to come and translate it the way they want to suit their needs is unacceptable, while the CLEAR ARABIC WORDS ARE OBVIOUS TO ANY NATIVE ARABIC SPEAKER

Peace!

unknownuser

Sister just a quick note

yeh they know the words meanig, but do they follow it?, THAT IS ANOTHER STORY SISTER, DON'T MIX THINGS UP

an example for you are the arab christians who understand arabic well, sure they understand the majority of the Quran, but do they follow it?

NO

i still insist you have no point, and many on this web site and the whole world are not qualified to explain the Quran

peace

unknownuser

sister i read your comment

now it is a shame you use a thug and a mass murderer as an example

i reject your flawed example of a thug and mass mureder bound to hell, that you consider him a native arabic speaker who is qualified to explain the Quran, can you show me an article he wrote explaining verses from the Quran?

JUST ONE VERSE SISTER

regarding the facts?

what faccts exactly?

I need your own understanding please

peace

unknownuser

Peace AhmedBahgat,

Sister just a quick note
yeh they know the words measnig, but doid they follow it?, THAT IS ANOTHER STORY SISTER, DON'T MIX THINGS UP
an example for you are the arab christians who understand arabic well, sure they understand many of the majority of the Qurna, but do they follow it?

The people I gave examples are of those NATIVE ARABIC SPEAKERS who claim to be understanding & following the CLEAR ARABIC QURAN correctly.

i still insist you have no point

And I have proven to u that u have no point. )

Peace!

unknownuser

Peace AhmedBahgat,

Sister just a quick note
yeh they know the words measnig, but doid they follow it?, THAT IS ANOTHER STORY SISTER, DON'T MIX THINGS UP
an example for you are the arab christians who understand arabic well, sure they understand many of the majority of the Qurna, but do they follow it?

The people I gave examples are of those NATIVE ARABIC SPEAKERS who claim to be understanding & following the CLEAR ARABIC QURAN correctly.

i still insist you have no point

And I have proven to u that u have no point. )

Peace!

peace sister

I'm sorry you only provided 2 examples, a thug/a mass murderer and a corrupt leader who was born with spoon of gold in his mouth

firstly, I never heard them claiming to be qualified to explain the Quran, neither I read any work by them EXPLAINING JUST ONE VERSE OF THE QURAN

also when I said understaning the Quran, I don't mean explaining the whole Quran, at least 70% of the whole Quran is simple to any native arabic speaker, it is actually like stories, take the laws out of it and the rest is very easy for any native arabic speaker, the laws now need qualified people to interpet it

EXACTLY AS WE HAVE JUDGES PROSECUTERS, POLICE OFFICERS AND LAWYERS TO EXPLAIN THE LAWS TO US

you want to listen to annyone who suddenly rode his/her high horse and think they can explain the Quran while they never spoke an arabic word, fine, that is your choice, I guess it is all part of the feel good religion attitude lol

peace

unknownuser

Hi AhmedBahgat,

I'm sorry you only provided 2 examples, a thug/a mass mureder and a corrupt leader who was born with spoon of gold in his mouth

I gave u more than 2 examples. Open ur eyes and see. I gave u the tip of the iceberg. ) U can see thousands of their followers who believe what these 2 believe.

firstly, I never heard them claiming to be qualified to explain the Quran, neither I read any work by them EXPLAINING JUST ONE VERSE OF THE QURAN

Really? How do u think he preaches and gets so many people to blow up themselves? wink

also when I said understaning the Quran, I don't mean explaining the whole Quran, at least 70% of the whole Quran is simple to any native arabic speaker, it is actually like stories, take the laws out of it and the rest is very easy for any native arabic speaker, the laws now need qualified people to interpet it

So, R u saying Osama might have got 70% of Quran correct?wink

EXACTLY AS WE HAVE JUDGES PROSECUTERS, POLICE OFFICERS AND LAWYERS TO EXPLAIN THE LAWS TO US

Rnt Osama, the saudi king acting as the law makers and enforcers?

you want to listen to annyone who suddenly rode his/her high horse and think they can explain the Quran while they never spoke an arabic word, fine, that is your choice, I guess it is all part of the feel good religion attitude lol

People who speak arabic all their life too didnt get it right, did they?wink

Peace AhmedBahgat, Understanding God and Quran requires much more than language skills. Most of all, it requires sense and wisdom. trance

Peace!

unknownuser

Hi AhmedBahgat,

hello mate

I'm sorry you only provided 2 examples, a thug/a mass mureder and a corrupt leader who was born with spoon of gold in his mouth

I gave u more than 2 examples. Open ur eyes and see. I gave u the tip of the iceberg. ) U can see thousands of their followers who believe what these 2 believe.

well, the examples you can only provide are books by authors, not a thug and some people that I never heard of, or hearsay

something like Ibn Kathir, you know

firstly, I never heard them claiming to be qualified to explain the Quran, neither I read any work by them EXPLAINING JUST ONE VERSE OF THE QURAN

Really? How do u think he preaches and gets so many people to blow up themselves? wink

i don't really know, but I guess as the americans also preached to use ONLY TWO BOMBS AND KILL THOUSANDS OF INNOCENT CIVILLIANS IN JAPAN, did you forget that or what?

oh yeh the americans and their pet the british are also bombing and killing thousands of innocent Iraqis, did you see the last movie about the brave british soldiers bashing innocent children in Iraq? it was released a couple of days ago, I have it hosted on my server if you miss it, they are very brave those british soldiers lol

i wonder what those west preach to convince their fello citizens to bomb and bash innocent people in masses?

also when I said understaning the Quran, I don't mean explaining the whole Quran, at least 70% of the whole Quran is simple to any native arabic speaker, it is actually like stories, take the laws out of it and the rest is very easy for any native arabic speaker, the laws now need qualified people to interpet it

So, R u saying Osama might have got 70% of Quran correct?wink

I don't really know, Usama for me is nothing, but it seems for ya he is something big, those westerners are funny lol

EXACTLY AS WE HAVE JUDGES PROSECUTERS, POLICE OFFICERS AND LAWYERS TO EXPLAIN THE LAWS TO US

Rnt Osama, the saudi king acting as the law makers and enforcers?

for themselves yes, but not for the muslims, what on earth you are talking about?

sister, this is not chistianity where we have a pope, this is islam sister, we all equal, we only differ by the knowledge of Allah and his messages, that is from the perspective of Allah

you want to listen to annyone who suddenly rode his/her high horse and think they can explain the Quran while they never spoke an arabic word, fine, that is your choice, I guess it is all part of the feel good religion attitude lol

People who speak arabic all their life too didnt get it right, did they?wink

yeh, you know Satan is clever wink , but I hope he is not clever with me and you

Peace AhmedBahgat, Understanding God and Quran requires much more than language skills. Most of all, it requires sense and wisdom. trance

Peace!

excuse me sister, God and the Quran are two different things, you don't need the Quran to undersdand what God is, but that God is communicating to us in a book called quran using a language called arabic, now to understand it you need arabic, to submit to it you need much more than language skills, see where you got it wrong?

peace

Elke

Peace PM and AB

i just love this , dropped a (small) bomb and left.... lol

Ahmed wrote
and many on this web site and the whole world are not qualified to explain the Quran

even though i support what u state above...what makes u so sure that U are qualified ?

Quran is a book i've been reading for over 20 years now and today i do not read the book i read then, because my understanding changed. I read it in English, French and German and if a clear meaning doesn't emerge i compare versions then turn to arabic and start searching and analysing. Sometimes new understandings i never even thought of just flash in my mind...may be because i was not ready to see them before, may be also because i'm going the wrong way...

I really think it is important not to lose one's humility and only god guides to the right understanding (if there is only one) and it has nothing to do with arabic language skills! You know that Ahmed there is a clear verse on that.

elke

unknownuser

Peace PM and AB

i just love this , dropped a (small) bomb and left.... lol

Ahmed wrote
and many on this web site and the whole world are not qualified to explain the Quran

even though i support what u state above...what makes u so sure that U are qualified ?

Quran is a book i've been reading for over 20 years now and today i do not read the book i read then, because my understanding changed. I read it in English, French and German and if a clear meaning doesn't emerge i compare versions then turn to arabic and start searching and analysing. Sometimes new understandings i never even thought of just flash in my mind...may be because i was not ready to see them before, may be also because i'm going the wrong way...

I really think it is important not to lose one's humility and only god guides to the right understanding (if there is only one) and it has nothing to do with arabic language skills! You know that Ahmed there is a clear verse on that.

elke

Thank you elke

I never said I'm

i only said that I'm fluent in the arabic language and read the Quran over 15 times for the last 25 yeras, that's all

cheers

unknownuser

Hi AhmedBahgat,

I'm sorry you only provided 2 examples, a thug/a mass mureder and a corrupt leader who was born with spoon of gold in his mouth

I gave u more than 2 examples. Open ur eyes and see. I gave u the tip of the iceberg. ) U can see thousands of their followers who believe what these 2 believe.

well, the examples you can only provide are books by authors, not a thug and some people that I never heard of, or hearsay
something like Ibn Kathir, you know

Now, u include authors in ur criteria. Didnt u say any native arabic speaker would understand Quran correctly?wink
I dont think KSA king authored any book himself, but if I understand right, he authorises the translation of Quran that is widely distributed in KSA and also to people who come for Haj, as the correct one.
And dont tell me u havent heard of either the king or Osama lol

firstly, I never heard them claiming to be qualified to explain the Quran, neither I read any work by them EXPLAINING JUST ONE VERSE OF THE QURAN

Really? How do u think he preaches and gets so many people to blow up themselves? wink

i don't really know, but I guess as the americans also preached to use ONLY TWO BOMBS AND KILL THOUSANDS OF INNOCENT CIVILLIANS IN JAPAN, did you forget that or what?
oh yeh the americans and their pet the british are also bombing and killing thousands of innocent Iraqis, did you see the last movie about the brave british soldiers bashing innocent children in Iraq? it was released a couple of days ago, I have it hosted on my server if you miss it, they are very brave those british soldiers lol
i wonder what those west preach to convince their fello citizens to bomb and bash innocent people in masses?

We both understand english, right?)
But yet see how easily u misinterpreted my post.
I meant Osama uses Quran to preach terrorism to his fellow men. I dont think the Americans used Quran to justify the nuke bombs or any war for that matter, did they? wink

EXACTLY AS WE HAVE JUDGES PROSECUTERS, POLICE OFFICERS AND LAWYERS TO EXPLAIN THE LAWS TO US

Rnt Osama, the saudi king acting as the law makers and enforcers?

for themselves yes, but not for the muslims, what on earth you are talking about?

R'nt the muslims of KSA claimed to be ruled by the king according to Islam and Quran?
Didnt the taliban rule the muslims of Afghanistan supposedly according to Quran and Islam?

Peace AhmedBahgat, Understanding God and Quran requires much more than language skills. Most of all, it requires sense and wisdom. trance

excuse me sister, God and the Quran are two different things, you don't need the Quran to undersdand what God is, but that God is communicating to us in a book called quran using a language called arabic, now to understand it you need arabic, to submit to it you need much more than language skills, see where you got it wrong?

The people who I gave examples of claim to supposedly understand as well as follow Quran correctly.

To undertsnand Quran, u need to know what is written.....then u would have to understand what is meant and so on..Thus u require much more than language skills.

Peace!

unknownuser

Hi AhmedBahgat,

I'm sorry you only provided 2 examples, a thug/a mass mureder and a corrupt leader who was born with spoon of gold in his mouth

I gave u more than 2 examples. Open ur eyes and see. I gave u the tip of the iceberg. U can see thousands of their followers who believe what these 2 believe.

well, the examples you can only provide are books by authors, not a thug and some people that I never heard of, or hearsay
something like Ibn Kathir, you know

Now, u include authors in ur criteria. Didnt u say any native arabic speaker would understand Quran correctly?wink

Hello mate

yep authors qualified to explain about 05% of the Quran but the native will understand abuot 70% of the stories in there, how about Mohammad Metwali El Sharawai?

I dont think KSA king authored any book himself, but if I understand right, he authorises the translation of Quran that is widely distributed in KSA and also to people who come for Haj, as the correct one.

now you need to elaborate, translate arabic to arabic or arabic to english?

And dont tell me u havent heard of either the king or Osama lol

of course i did know about Osama if you mean the son of Laden

osama is a thug and a mass murderer

now which king you are asking me if I heard about him?, I need a name please? king alone is not enough, for example, there is the king in the chess game, now I need to wink you wink lol

firstly, I never heard them claiming to be qualified to explain the Quran, neither I read any work by them EXPLAINING JUST ONE VERSE OF THE QURAN

Really? How do u think he preaches and gets so many people to blow up themselves? wink

i don't really know, but I guess as the americans also preached to use ONLY TWO BOMBS AND KILL THOUSANDS OF INNOCENT CIVILLIANS IN JAPAN, did you forget that or what?

oh yeh the americans and their pet the british are also bombing and killing thousands of innocent Iraqis, did you see the last movie about the brave british soldiers bashing innocent children in Iraq? it was released a couple of days ago, I have it hosted on my server if you miss it, they are very brave those british soldiers lol

i wonder what those west preach to convince their fello citizens to bomb and bash innocent people in masses?

We both understand english, right?

I guess you understand english better than me, but I understand arabic far better than you, i feel like another wink, wink

But yet see how easily u misinterpreted my post.

excuse my lack of english lol

I meant Osama uses Quran to preach terrorism to his fellow men.

sorry, what is your proofs?

I reject what you said above, because it's basless and is nothing but hearsay, again, inadmissable wink

I dont think the Americans used Quran to justify the nuke bombs or any war for that matter, did they? wink

well ,any thug will use something to justofy their crimes, but I doubt they can use a religious book

I don't care if they held it in theior hands when they committed their crimes, you have to prove to me that Osama the son of laden used the Quran to preach terrorism, all I saw in the videos released by the americans is nothing but training camps where they were shooting on made up targets, I never saw Laden sittings and convincing his gang to kill for Islam, did you see it or what? , oh yeh the press is very powerfull isn't it

EXACTLY AS WE HAVE JUDGES PROSECUTERS, POLICE OFFICERS AND LAWYERS TO EXPLAIN THE LAWS TO US

Rnt Osama, the saudi king acting as the law makers and enforcers?

for themselves yes, but not for the muslims, what on earth you are talking about?

R'nt the muslims of KSA claimed to be ruled by the king according to Islam and Quran?

never heard of such thing, any proofs?

Didnt the taliban rule the muslims of Afghanistan supposedly according to Quran and Islam?

that is what they claimed, but it is not my problem that you are too weak and too naive to believe a few thugs,

Peace AhmedBahgat, Understanding God and Quran requires much more than language skills. Most of all, it requires sense and wisdom. trance

excuse me sister, God and the Quran are two different things, you don't need the Quran to undersdand what God is, but that God is communicating to us in a book called quran using a language called arabic, now to understand it you need arabic, to submit to it you need much more than language skills, see where you got it wrong?

The people who I gave examples of claim to supposedly understand as well as follow Quran correctly.

good that you said THEY CLAIMED

now if I claim the same would you believe me?

see...

To undertsnand Quran, u need to know what is written.....then u would have to understand what is meant and so on..Thus u require much more than language skills.
Peace!

sure and how you will know it unless

you know arabic
it is translated into your languge

for example

do you know what that is

?

cheers

JHamza

Peace JHamza,

Thanks for the verses.

R u aware of any other verses regarding homosexuality in Quran?

And also, can u explain ur understanding of 'Polygamy' mentioned in Quran?

Peace!

Peace peacefulmuslim,

Lot said to his people, "You commit such an abomination; no one
in the world has done it before! "You practice sex with the men,
instead of the women. Indeed, you are a transgressing people."

They were commiting an abominaion,by having sex with men instead of women..

"Do you have sex with the males, of all the people? "You forsake
the wives that your Lord has created for you! Indeed, you are
transgressing people."

They were foresaking women to have sexual relations with men.

2755"Do you approach men in your lusts rather than women? Nay, but you are a people who behave senselessly."
2756 There was no other answer given by his people except that they said "Drive out the family of Lout (Lot) from your city. Verily, these are men who want to be clean and pure!"

Lot and his family were not like the other people.

2929"Verily, you do sodomy with men, and rob the wayfarer (travellers, etc.)! And practise Al-Munkar (disbelief and polytheism and every kind of evil wicked deed) in your meetings." But his people gave no answer except, that they said "Bring All?h's Torment upon us if you are one of the truthful."

We all know what sodomy is...

And GOD made for you spouses from among yourselves, and produced for you from your spouses children and grandchildren, and provided you with good provisions. Should they believe in falsehood, and turn unappreciative of GOD's blessings?

Cant produce children with same sex marriages,so spouses mean male and female in marriage..

Let there be a community of you who invite to what is good, advocate
righteousness, and forbid evil. These are the winners.
971]
The believing men and women are allies of one another. They advocate
righteousness and forbid evil, they observe the Contact Prayers (Salat)
and give the obligatory charity (Zakat), and they obey GOD and His
messenger. These will be showered by GOD's mercy. GOD is
Almighty, Most Wise.

The believing Community is to advocate righteous things and forbid evil acts and any person that isnt blind to the Truth can see that the Quran and Allah hates the act of homosexuality..

Hating the sin and forbiding illegal sexual acts to be approven within the community though doesnt mean we are to mistreat the person.

GOD does not enjoin you from befriending those who do not fight
you because of religion, and do not evict you from your homes. You
may befriend them and be equitable towards them. GOD loves the
equitable. GOD enjoins you only from befriending those who fight
you because of religion, evict you from your homes, and band
together with others to banish you. You shall not befriend them.
Those who befriend them are the transgressors.

Being equitable though doesnt mean to approve of something that God dislikes...

unknownuser

i only said that I'm fluent in the arabic language and read the Quran over 15 times for the last 25 yeras, that's all
cheers

What ONLY 15 times in last 25 years?

You have not done much reading have you?

and bmbmm perhaps has not read it once since he is asking the Forum members if Exorcism was allowed in the Quran!!!

Regards,

unknownuser

i only said that I'm fluent in the arabic language and read the Quran over 15 times for the last 25 yeras, that's all
cheers

What ONLY 15 times in last 25 years?

You have not done much reading have you?

Regards,

LOL Lot,

nice one, at least this may indicate that I'm not a liar wink

well let me explain

when I read the Quran, I don't read it like reading a comic book, I read it thoroughly and invistigate every word and letter more than once, I can spend 10 days woprking out a complicated verse

see

cheers

unknownuser

thank you brother JHamza

you last comment was great and spot on

peace be with you

unknownuser

nice one, at least this may indicate that I'm not a liar wink

Because you say so does it make it so wink

well let me explain
when I read the Quran, I don't read it like reading a comic book, I read it thoroughly and invistigate every word and letter more than once, I can spend 10 days woprking out a complicated verse
see
cheers

And therefore it takes 25 years to read it 15 times...for a moment I thought you were a slow reader wink

Regards,

unknownuser

nice one, at least this may indicate that I'm not a liar wink

Because you say so does it make it so wink

from my perspective yes it makes it so, from your perpective or others who don't know me, I don't really know, not sure if I will even care, wink

well let me explain
when I read the Quran, I don't read it like reading a comic book, I read it thoroughly and invistigate every word and letter more than once, I can spend 10 days woprking out a complicated verse
see
cheers

And therefore it takes 25 years to read it 15 times...for a moment I thought you were a slow reader wink

Regards,

it may sound like it, but, I don't read the Quran alone, I read hundreds of other stuff, like the bible other religious books, and sure other stuff that I use to make my living, and finally the stuff I read for fun, like the daily news paper of example, in some dyas I read the news paper twice wink

cheers

unknownuser

Peace be upon you Peaceful Muslim,

idolfree1 wrote
Peace be upon you JHamza,
You forgot to highlight the part where it says that no people in creation committed before you.

Some might think that dismisses the fact that it was homosexuality, but the explanation is that none before YOU could have done it or YOU would not be here to talk about it because Homosexuals dont create children.

Peacefulmuslim
R u for the first time taking verses in the literal sense instead of metaphorising them? How come?

I am certainly not taking it literal, meaning that a man named LOT offered his daughters without thier permission to be prostitutes, no.

U have metaphorised everything in the entire Quran

Not everything, just the prophetic stories, but still studying.

..........even the idea of God, Heaven, Hell, Mohammed, iblis etc.

I do not necessarilly metaphorize the God, I just dont have the God as an OBJECT out there in the skies.

U claim not to believe a person named Mohammed exsisted becoc u have no direct knowledge about him.

I do not lean in any direction regarding "Muhammad Ibn Abdulah". I have no proof of his existence or non existence. My only interest is in my spiritual GUIDANCE, which is not built from blind faith, but from KNOWLEDGE and the ability to carry out the knowledge.

Did u know the people of Lot by urself? Did u witness their deeds? How exactly did u verify them?

No, I dont know them , nor do I take the story as literal, the God is not telling us to offer our daughters up for prostitution.

I verify the story by looking at the universe, "male" and "female" are designed as a compliment to each other there is yin and yang to all of life.

It is the union of opposites that creates life, therefore "NONE BEFORE YOU HAVE DONE THIS", couldnt have, or you wouldnt be here to talk about it.

Or Is that becoz these verses might be in ur favour that u choose to specifically give a literal meaning to it?

I hope it is clear now.

JHamza

thank you brother JHamza

you last comment was great and spot on

peace be with you

wink

burhan

thank you brother JHamza

you last comment was great and spot on

peace be with you

wink

It is unfortunate that your arabic friend hasn't corrected the translations for you.

However, say you lived in a time where homosexulaity in both sexes was accepted and understood ,so much so that noboday needed terms like homo or hetro to describe these differences.

Then one day a group of men in your village started raping other men, castrating them to stop them from being with women.

How would you describe what was going on. What would you say to them when you'd meet them.

There is no wrong or right answer nor is this a trick question.

peace.