gay people and islam
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Hi AhmedBahgat,
I'm sorry you only provided 2 examples, a thug/a mass mureder and a corrupt leader who was born with spoon of gold in his mouth
I gave u more than 2 examples. Open ur eyes and see. I gave u the tip of the iceberg. U can see thousands of their followers who believe what these 2 believe.
well, the examples you can only provide are books by authors, not a thug and some people that I never heard of, or hearsay
something like Ibn Kathir, you knowNow, u include authors in ur criteria. Didnt u say any native arabic speaker would understand Quran correctly?wink
Hello mate
yep authors qualified to explain about 05% of the Quran but the native will understand abuot 70% of the stories in there, how about Mohammad Metwali El Sharawai?
I dont think KSA king authored any book himself, but if I understand right, he authorises the translation of Quran that is widely distributed in KSA and also to people who come for Haj, as the correct one.
now you need to elaborate, translate arabic to arabic or arabic to english?
And dont tell me u havent heard of either the king or Osama lol
of course i did know about Osama if you mean the son of Laden
osama is a thug and a mass murderer
now which king you are asking me if I heard about him?, I need a name please? king alone is not enough, for example, there is the king in the chess game, now I need to wink you wink lol
firstly, I never heard them claiming to be qualified to explain the Quran, neither I read any work by them EXPLAINING JUST ONE VERSE OF THE QURAN
Really? How do u think he preaches and gets so many people to blow up themselves? wink
i don't really know, but I guess as the americans also preached to use ONLY TWO BOMBS AND KILL THOUSANDS OF INNOCENT CIVILLIANS IN JAPAN, did you forget that or what?
oh yeh the americans and their pet the british are also bombing and killing thousands of innocent Iraqis, did you see the last movie about the brave british soldiers bashing innocent children in Iraq? it was released a couple of days ago, I have it hosted on my server if you miss it, they are very brave those british soldiers lol
i wonder what those west preach to convince their fello citizens to bomb and bash innocent people in masses?
We both understand english, right?
I guess you understand english better than me, but I understand arabic far better than you, i feel like another wink, wink
But yet see how easily u misinterpreted my post.
excuse my lack of english lol
I meant Osama uses Quran to preach terrorism to his fellow men.
sorry, what is your proofs?
I reject what you said above, because it's basless and is nothing but hearsay, again, inadmissable wink
I dont think the Americans used Quran to justify the nuke bombs or any war for that matter, did they? wink
well ,any thug will use something to justofy their crimes, but I doubt they can use a religious book
I don't care if they held it in theior hands when they committed their crimes, you have to prove to me that Osama the son of laden used the Quran to preach terrorism, all I saw in the videos released by the americans is nothing but training camps where they were shooting on made up targets, I never saw Laden sittings and convincing his gang to kill for Islam, did you see it or what? , oh yeh the press is very powerfull isn't it
EXACTLY AS WE HAVE JUDGES PROSECUTERS, POLICE OFFICERS AND LAWYERS TO EXPLAIN THE LAWS TO US
Rnt Osama, the saudi king acting as the law makers and enforcers?
for themselves yes, but not for the muslims, what on earth you are talking about?
R'nt the muslims of KSA claimed to be ruled by the king according to Islam and Quran?
never heard of such thing, any proofs?
Didnt the taliban rule the muslims of Afghanistan supposedly according to Quran and Islam?
that is what they claimed, but it is not my problem that you are too weak and too naive to believe a few thugs,
Peace AhmedBahgat, Understanding God and Quran requires much more than language skills. Most of all, it requires sense and wisdom. trance
excuse me sister, God and the Quran are two different things, you don't need the Quran to undersdand what God is, but that God is communicating to us in a book called quran using a language called arabic, now to understand it you need arabic, to submit to it you need much more than language skills, see where you got it wrong?
The people who I gave examples of claim to supposedly understand as well as follow Quran correctly.
good that you said THEY CLAIMED
now if I claim the same would you believe me?
see...
To undertsnand Quran, u need to know what is written.....then u would have to understand what is meant and so on..Thus u require much more than language skills.
Peace!sure and how you will know it unless
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you know arabic
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it is translated into your languge
for example
do you know what that is
?
cheers
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Peace JHamza,
Thanks for the verses.
R u aware of any other verses regarding homosexuality in Quran?
And also, can u explain ur understanding of 'Polygamy' mentioned in Quran?
Peace!
Peace peacefulmuslim,
Lot said to his people, "You commit such an abomination; no one
in the world has done it before! "You practice sex with the men,
instead of the women. Indeed, you are a transgressing people."They were commiting an abominaion,by having sex with men instead of women..
"Do you have sex with the males, of all the people? "You forsake
the wives that your Lord has created for you! Indeed, you are
transgressing people."They were foresaking women to have sexual relations with men.
2755"Do you approach men in your lusts rather than women? Nay, but you are a people who behave senselessly."
2756 There was no other answer given by his people except that they said "Drive out the family of Lout (Lot) from your city. Verily, these are men who want to be clean and pure!"Lot and his family were not like the other people.
2929"Verily, you do sodomy with men, and rob the wayfarer (travellers, etc.)! And practise Al-Munkar (disbelief and polytheism and every kind of evil wicked deed) in your meetings." But his people gave no answer except, that they said "Bring All?h's Torment upon us if you are one of the truthful."
We all know what sodomy is...
And GOD made for you spouses from among yourselves, and produced for you from your spouses children and grandchildren, and provided you with good provisions. Should they believe in falsehood, and turn unappreciative of GOD's blessings?
Cant produce children with same sex marriages,so spouses mean male and female in marriage..
Let there be a community of you who invite to what is good, advocate
righteousness, and forbid evil. These are the winners.
971]
The believing men and women are allies of one another. They advocate
righteousness and forbid evil, they observe the Contact Prayers (Salat)
and give the obligatory charity (Zakat), and they obey GOD and His
messenger. These will be showered by GOD's mercy. GOD is
Almighty, Most Wise.The believing Community is to advocate righteous things and forbid evil acts and any person that isnt blind to the Truth can see that the Quran and Allah hates the act of homosexuality..
Hating the sin and forbiding illegal sexual acts to be approven within the community though doesnt mean we are to mistreat the person.
GOD does not enjoin you from befriending those who do not fight
you because of religion, and do not evict you from your homes. You
may befriend them and be equitable towards them. GOD loves the
equitable. GOD enjoins you only from befriending those who fight
you because of religion, evict you from your homes, and band
together with others to banish you. You shall not befriend them.
Those who befriend them are the transgressors.Being equitable though doesnt mean to approve of something that God dislikes...
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i only said that I'm fluent in the arabic language and read the Quran over 15 times for the last 25 yeras, that's all
cheersWhat ONLY 15 times in last 25 years?
You have not done much reading have you?
and bmbmm perhaps has not read it once since he is asking the Forum members if Exorcism was allowed in the Quran!!!
Regards,
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i only said that I'm fluent in the arabic language and read the Quran over 15 times for the last 25 yeras, that's all
cheersWhat ONLY 15 times in last 25 years?
You have not done much reading have you?
Regards,
LOL Lot,
nice one, at least this may indicate that I'm not a liar wink
well let me explain
when I read the Quran, I don't read it like reading a comic book, I read it thoroughly and invistigate every word and letter more than once, I can spend 10 days woprking out a complicated verse
see
cheers
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thank you brother JHamza
you last comment was great and spot on
peace be with you
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nice one, at least this may indicate that I'm not a liar wink
Because you say so does it make it so wink
well let me explain
when I read the Quran, I don't read it like reading a comic book, I read it thoroughly and invistigate every word and letter more than once, I can spend 10 days woprking out a complicated verse
see
cheersAnd therefore it takes 25 years to read it 15 times...for a moment I thought you were a slow reader wink
Regards,
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nice one, at least this may indicate that I'm not a liar wink
Because you say so does it make it so wink
from my perspective yes it makes it so, from your perpective or others who don't know me, I don't really know, not sure if I will even care, wink
well let me explain
when I read the Quran, I don't read it like reading a comic book, I read it thoroughly and invistigate every word and letter more than once, I can spend 10 days woprking out a complicated verse
see
cheersAnd therefore it takes 25 years to read it 15 times...for a moment I thought you were a slow reader wink
Regards,
it may sound like it, but, I don't read the Quran alone, I read hundreds of other stuff, like the bible other religious books, and sure other stuff that I use to make my living, and finally the stuff I read for fun, like the daily news paper of example, in some dyas I read the news paper twice wink
cheers
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Peace be upon you Peaceful Muslim,
idolfree1 wrote
Peace be upon you JHamza,
You forgot to highlight the part where it says that no people in creation committed before you.Some might think that dismisses the fact that it was homosexuality, but the explanation is that none before YOU could have done it or YOU would not be here to talk about it because Homosexuals dont create children.
Peacefulmuslim
R u for the first time taking verses in the literal sense instead of metaphorising them? How come?I am certainly not taking it literal, meaning that a man named LOT offered his daughters without thier permission to be prostitutes, no.
U have metaphorised everything in the entire Quran
Not everything, just the prophetic stories, but still studying.
..........even the idea of God, Heaven, Hell, Mohammed, iblis etc.
I do not necessarilly metaphorize the God, I just dont have the God as an OBJECT out there in the skies.
U claim not to believe a person named Mohammed exsisted becoc u have no direct knowledge about him.
I do not lean in any direction regarding "Muhammad Ibn Abdulah". I have no proof of his existence or non existence. My only interest is in my spiritual GUIDANCE, which is not built from blind faith, but from KNOWLEDGE and the ability to carry out the knowledge.
Did u know the people of Lot by urself? Did u witness their deeds? How exactly did u verify them?
No, I dont know them , nor do I take the story as literal, the God is not telling us to offer our daughters up for prostitution.
I verify the story by looking at the universe, "male" and "female" are designed as a compliment to each other there is yin and yang to all of life.
It is the union of opposites that creates life, therefore "NONE BEFORE YOU HAVE DONE THIS", couldnt have, or you wouldnt be here to talk about it.
Or Is that becoz these verses might be in ur favour that u choose to specifically give a literal meaning to it?
I hope it is clear now.
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thank you brother JHamza
you last comment was great and spot on
peace be with you
wink
It is unfortunate that your arabic friend hasn't corrected the translations for you.
However, say you lived in a time where homosexulaity in both sexes was accepted and understood ,so much so that noboday needed terms like homo or hetro to describe these differences.
Then one day a group of men in your village started raping other men, castrating them to stop them from being with women.
How would you describe what was going on. What would you say to them when you'd meet them.
There is no wrong or right answer nor is this a trick question.
peace.
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I would be rather angry, because my free choice to be with either sex was in danger of being limited to just one?I'd let them know about it! lol
However, in this hypothetical "time" you describe, the concept of right or wrong is not present. Yet we, who are in possession of such a concept are suddenly 'dropped' into this time, and expected to answer your question.
Problematic.
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thank you brother JHamza
you last comment was great and spot on
peace be with you
wink
It is unfortunate that your arabic friend hasn't corrected the translations for you.
However, say you lived in a time where homosexulaity in both sexes was accepted and understood ,so much so that noboday needed terms like homo or hetro to describe these differences.
Then one day a group of men in your village started raping other men, castrating them to stop them from being with women.
How would you describe what was going on. What would you say to them when you'd meet them.
There is no wrong or right answer nor is this a trick question.
peace.
well if you mean me as the arab friend, then unfortunatly he didn't ask me to translaste it, I don't volunteer informations btw
peace
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Peace JHamza,
Thanks for the verses yet again.
All these verses are about the people of Lot, arent they?
Can u say for sure, that the people of lot that are spoken about in these verses were homosexuals (born that way)? Could they be heterosexuals practising homoseuality out of lustful choice, becoz of which they are scorned?We all are aware homosexuality as such is an aberration from the common 'normal'. How many of such aberrations are adressed in Quran?
Do u find verses on hermaphrodies in Quran?And as for procreation, How many homosexuals do u think exsist in the world? I think statistics in USA showed 4%.
And Is procreation a compulsion even among heterosexuals? What would u do about those heterosexual couples who choose not to have kids?And u havent adressed my previous request
And also, can u explain ur understanding of 'Polygamy' mentioned in Quran?
Peace!
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Peace idolfree1,
Thanks for ur explanations.
I understood ur views just as u have described it.You forgot to highlight the part where it says that no people in creation committed before you.
Some might think that dismisses the fact that it was homosexuality, but the explanation is that none before YOU could have done it or YOU would not be here to talk about it because Homosexuals dont create children.
Isnt the underlined part ur extended understanding of the verse?
Could it have been '' no heterosexual people before u were so lustul to choose men over women''?Peace!
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Peace Nabi,
Or Is that becoz these verses might be in ur favour that u choose to specifically give a literal meaning to it?
What is metaphorical does not have to be not literal. If you think that because the reading is interpreted metaphorically that it is not literal than I disagree with you here. I think you have misunderstood Kyle because he has given the metaphor, but like I said they can be literal which you have clearly ascertained. You have not seen the metaphor.
I agree that I dont see some of the metaphors that some of u see.
But U might have misunderstood Idolfree1's views.I am certainly not taking it literal, meaning that a man named LOT offered his daughters without thier permission to be prostitutes, no.
No, I dont know them , nor do I take the story as literal, the God is not telling us to offer our daughters up for prostitution.
I verify the story by looking at the universe, "male" and "female" are designed as a compliment to each other there is yin and yang to all of life.
It is the union of opposites that creates life, therefore "NONE BEFORE YOU HAVE DONE THIS", couldnt have, or you wouldnt be here to talk about it.
Peace!
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I don't volunteer informations btw
How charitable of you. seriousLOL
I'm chartiable with money not with info unless I'm asked, or the subject took my attention
I do a lot of charrity work for free though lol
peace
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a hetro is looking for lust with men shock
how the above make sense to anyone?
unless you call him a homo or a bio looking for lust with men, now that makes sense
but you can't call himn hetro, nice try though wink
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Peace AhmedBahgat
a hetro is looking for lust with men shock
how the above make sense to anyone?
unless you call him a homo or a bio looking for lust with men, now that makes sense
but you can't call himn hetro, nice try though wink
you mean then that homosex people are borm like that, don't you?
If you don't mean that, then you think they are born heterosexual, right?
Then, why are you surprised by the sentence?
--I don't say anything about 'bio' because I don't understand it.