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  4. gay people and islam

gay people and islam

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Issues / Questions
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  • J Offline
    J Offline
    JHamza
    wrote on last edited by
    #407

    Peace JHamza,

    Thanks for the verses.

    R u aware of any other verses regarding homosexuality in Quran?

    And also, can u explain ur understanding of 'Polygamy' mentioned in Quran?

    Peace!

    Peace peacefulmuslim,

    Lot said to his people, "You commit such an abomination; no one
    in the world has done it before! "You practice sex with the men,
    instead of the women. Indeed, you are a transgressing people."

    They were commiting an abominaion,by having sex with men instead of women..

    "Do you have sex with the males, of all the people? "You forsake
    the wives that your Lord has created for you! Indeed, you are
    transgressing people."

    They were foresaking women to have sexual relations with men.

    2755"Do you approach men in your lusts rather than women? Nay, but you are a people who behave senselessly."
    2756 There was no other answer given by his people except that they said "Drive out the family of Lout (Lot) from your city. Verily, these are men who want to be clean and pure!"

    Lot and his family were not like the other people.

    2929"Verily, you do sodomy with men, and rob the wayfarer (travellers, etc.)! And practise Al-Munkar (disbelief and polytheism and every kind of evil wicked deed) in your meetings." But his people gave no answer except, that they said "Bring All?h's Torment upon us if you are one of the truthful."

    We all know what sodomy is...

    And GOD made for you spouses from among yourselves, and produced for you from your spouses children and grandchildren, and provided you with good provisions. Should they believe in falsehood, and turn unappreciative of GOD's blessings?

    Cant produce children with same sex marriages,so spouses mean male and female in marriage..

    Let there be a community of you who invite to what is good, advocate
    righteousness, and forbid evil. These are the winners.
    971]
    The believing men and women are allies of one another. They advocate
    righteousness and forbid evil, they observe the Contact Prayers (Salat)
    and give the obligatory charity (Zakat), and they obey GOD and His
    messenger. These will be showered by GOD's mercy. GOD is
    Almighty, Most Wise.

    The believing Community is to advocate righteous things and forbid evil acts and any person that isnt blind to the Truth can see that the Quran and Allah hates the act of homosexuality..

    Hating the sin and forbiding illegal sexual acts to be approven within the community though doesnt mean we are to mistreat the person.

    GOD does not enjoin you from befriending those who do not fight
    you because of religion, and do not evict you from your homes. You
    may befriend them and be equitable towards them. GOD loves the
    equitable. GOD enjoins you only from befriending those who fight
    you because of religion, evict you from your homes, and band
    together with others to banish you. You shall not befriend them.
    Those who befriend them are the transgressors.

    Being equitable though doesnt mean to approve of something that God dislikes...

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    • U Offline
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      unknownuser
      wrote on last edited by
      #408

      i only said that I'm fluent in the arabic language and read the Quran over 15 times for the last 25 yeras, that's all
      cheers

      What ONLY 15 times in last 25 years?

      You have not done much reading have you?

      and bmbmm perhaps has not read it once since he is asking the Forum members if Exorcism was allowed in the Quran!!!

      Regards,

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      • U Offline
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        unknownuser
        wrote on last edited by
        #409

        i only said that I'm fluent in the arabic language and read the Quran over 15 times for the last 25 yeras, that's all
        cheers

        What ONLY 15 times in last 25 years?

        You have not done much reading have you?

        Regards,

        LOL Lot,

        nice one, at least this may indicate that I'm not a liar wink

        well let me explain

        when I read the Quran, I don't read it like reading a comic book, I read it thoroughly and invistigate every word and letter more than once, I can spend 10 days woprking out a complicated verse

        see

        cheers

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        • U Offline
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          unknownuser
          wrote on last edited by
          #410

          thank you brother JHamza

          you last comment was great and spot on

          peace be with you

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          • U Offline
            U Offline
            unknownuser
            wrote on last edited by
            #411

            nice one, at least this may indicate that I'm not a liar wink

            Because you say so does it make it so wink

            well let me explain
            when I read the Quran, I don't read it like reading a comic book, I read it thoroughly and invistigate every word and letter more than once, I can spend 10 days woprking out a complicated verse
            see
            cheers

            And therefore it takes 25 years to read it 15 times...for a moment I thought you were a slow reader wink

            Regards,

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            • U Offline
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              unknownuser
              wrote on last edited by
              #412

              nice one, at least this may indicate that I'm not a liar wink

              Because you say so does it make it so wink

              from my perspective yes it makes it so, from your perpective or others who don't know me, I don't really know, not sure if I will even care, wink

              well let me explain
              when I read the Quran, I don't read it like reading a comic book, I read it thoroughly and invistigate every word and letter more than once, I can spend 10 days woprking out a complicated verse
              see
              cheers

              And therefore it takes 25 years to read it 15 times...for a moment I thought you were a slow reader wink

              Regards,

              it may sound like it, but, I don't read the Quran alone, I read hundreds of other stuff, like the bible other religious books, and sure other stuff that I use to make my living, and finally the stuff I read for fun, like the daily news paper of example, in some dyas I read the news paper twice wink

              cheers

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              • U Offline
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                unknownuser
                wrote on last edited by
                #413

                Peace be upon you Peaceful Muslim,

                idolfree1 wrote
                Peace be upon you JHamza,
                You forgot to highlight the part where it says that no people in creation committed before you.

                Some might think that dismisses the fact that it was homosexuality, but the explanation is that none before YOU could have done it or YOU would not be here to talk about it because Homosexuals dont create children.

                Peacefulmuslim
                R u for the first time taking verses in the literal sense instead of metaphorising them? How come?

                I am certainly not taking it literal, meaning that a man named LOT offered his daughters without thier permission to be prostitutes, no.

                U have metaphorised everything in the entire Quran

                Not everything, just the prophetic stories, but still studying.

                ..........even the idea of God, Heaven, Hell, Mohammed, iblis etc.

                I do not necessarilly metaphorize the God, I just dont have the God as an OBJECT out there in the skies.

                U claim not to believe a person named Mohammed exsisted becoc u have no direct knowledge about him.

                I do not lean in any direction regarding "Muhammad Ibn Abdulah". I have no proof of his existence or non existence. My only interest is in my spiritual GUIDANCE, which is not built from blind faith, but from KNOWLEDGE and the ability to carry out the knowledge.

                Did u know the people of Lot by urself? Did u witness their deeds? How exactly did u verify them?

                No, I dont know them , nor do I take the story as literal, the God is not telling us to offer our daughters up for prostitution.

                I verify the story by looking at the universe, "male" and "female" are designed as a compliment to each other there is yin and yang to all of life.

                It is the union of opposites that creates life, therefore "NONE BEFORE YOU HAVE DONE THIS", couldnt have, or you wouldnt be here to talk about it.

                Or Is that becoz these verses might be in ur favour that u choose to specifically give a literal meaning to it?

                I hope it is clear now.

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                  JHamza
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #414

                  thank you brother JHamza

                  you last comment was great and spot on

                  peace be with you

                  wink

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                    burhan
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #415

                    thank you brother JHamza

                    you last comment was great and spot on

                    peace be with you

                    wink

                    It is unfortunate that your arabic friend hasn't corrected the translations for you.

                    However, say you lived in a time where homosexulaity in both sexes was accepted and understood ,so much so that noboday needed terms like homo or hetro to describe these differences.

                    Then one day a group of men in your village started raping other men, castrating them to stop them from being with women.

                    How would you describe what was going on. What would you say to them when you'd meet them.

                    There is no wrong or right answer nor is this a trick question.

                    peace.

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                    • N Offline
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                      nazz
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #416

                      I would be rather angry, because my free choice to be with either sex was in danger of being limited to just one?I'd let them know about it! lol

                      However, in this hypothetical "time" you describe, the concept of right or wrong is not present. Yet we, who are in possession of such a concept are suddenly 'dropped' into this time, and expected to answer your question.

                      Problematic.

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                      • U Offline
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                        unknownuser
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #417

                        thank you brother JHamza

                        you last comment was great and spot on

                        peace be with you

                        wink

                        It is unfortunate that your arabic friend hasn't corrected the translations for you.

                        However, say you lived in a time where homosexulaity in both sexes was accepted and understood ,so much so that noboday needed terms like homo or hetro to describe these differences.

                        Then one day a group of men in your village started raping other men, castrating them to stop them from being with women.

                        How would you describe what was going on. What would you say to them when you'd meet them.

                        There is no wrong or right answer nor is this a trick question.

                        peace.

                        well if you mean me as the arab friend, then unfortunatly he didn't ask me to translaste it, I don't volunteer informations btw

                        peace

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                          nazz
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #418

                          I don't volunteer informations btw
                          How charitable of you. serious

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                          • U Offline
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                            unknownuser
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #419

                            Peace JHamza,

                            Thanks for the verses yet again.
                            All these verses are about the people of Lot, arent they?
                            Can u say for sure, that the people of lot that are spoken about in these verses were homosexuals (born that way)? Could they be heterosexuals practising homoseuality out of lustful choice, becoz of which they are scorned?

                            We all are aware homosexuality as such is an aberration from the common 'normal'. How many of such aberrations are adressed in Quran?
                            Do u find verses on hermaphrodies in Quran?

                            And as for procreation, How many homosexuals do u think exsist in the world? I think statistics in USA showed 4%.
                            And Is procreation a compulsion even among heterosexuals? What would u do about those heterosexual couples who choose not to have kids?

                            And u havent adressed my previous request

                            And also, can u explain ur understanding of 'Polygamy' mentioned in Quran?

                            Peace!

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                              unknownuser
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #420

                              Peace idolfree1,

                              Thanks for ur explanations.
                              I understood ur views just as u have described it.

                              You forgot to highlight the part where it says that no people in creation committed before you.

                              Some might think that dismisses the fact that it was homosexuality, but the explanation is that none before YOU could have done it or YOU would not be here to talk about it because Homosexuals dont create children.

                              Isnt the underlined part ur extended understanding of the verse?
                              Could it have been '' no heterosexual people before u were so lustul to choose men over women''?

                              Peace!

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                                unknownuser
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #421

                                Peace Nabi,

                                Or Is that becoz these verses might be in ur favour that u choose to specifically give a literal meaning to it?

                                What is metaphorical does not have to be not literal. If you think that because the reading is interpreted metaphorically that it is not literal than I disagree with you here. I think you have misunderstood Kyle because he has given the metaphor, but like I said they can be literal which you have clearly ascertained. You have not seen the metaphor.

                                I agree that I dont see some of the metaphors that some of u see.
                                But U might have misunderstood Idolfree1's views.

                                I am certainly not taking it literal, meaning that a man named LOT offered his daughters without thier permission to be prostitutes, no.

                                No, I dont know them , nor do I take the story as literal, the God is not telling us to offer our daughters up for prostitution.

                                I verify the story by looking at the universe, "male" and "female" are designed as a compliment to each other there is yin and yang to all of life.

                                It is the union of opposites that creates life, therefore "NONE BEFORE YOU HAVE DONE THIS", couldnt have, or you wouldnt be here to talk about it.

                                Peace!

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                                  unknownuser
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #422

                                  I don't volunteer informations btw
                                  How charitable of you. serious

                                  LOL

                                  I'm chartiable with money not with info unless I'm asked, or the subject took my attention

                                  I do a lot of charrity work for free though lol

                                  peace

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                                  • U Offline
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                                    unknownuser
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #423

                                    a hetro is looking for lust with men shock

                                    how the above make sense to anyone?

                                    unless you call him a homo or a bio looking for lust with men, now that makes sense

                                    but you can't call himn hetro, nice try though wink

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                                    • T Offline
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                                      TheNabi
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #424

                                      Peace

                                      Peaceful, please read what Kyle said he meant by literal. Other than that I will not debate another's views any more. Kyle can tell you what he means, and has. There is no contradiction in my eyes between what we have said.

                                      Joe

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                                      • E Offline
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                                        Elena
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #425

                                        Peace AhmedBahgat

                                        a hetro is looking for lust with men shock

                                        how the above make sense to anyone?

                                        unless you call him a homo or a bio looking for lust with men, now that makes sense

                                        but you can't call himn hetro, nice try though wink

                                        you mean then that homosex people are borm like that, don't you?
                                        If you don't mean that, then you think they are born heterosexual, right?
                                        Then, why are you surprised by the sentence?
                                        --I don't say anything about 'bio' because I don't understand it.

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                                          unknownuser
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #426

                                          Peace AhmedBahgat

                                          a hetro is looking for lust with men shock

                                          how the above make sense to anyone?

                                          unless you call him a homo or a bio looking for lust with men, now that makes sense

                                          but you can't call himn hetro, nice try though wink

                                          you mean then that homosex people are borm like that, don't you?
                                          If you don't mean that, then you think they are born heterosexual, right?
                                          Then, why are you surprised by the sentence?
                                          --I don't say anything about 'bio' because I don't understand it.

                                          lol

                                          Nice try

                                          no no, I mean when a hetro sleeps with a man, he can't be a hetro any more, he chose to be a homo like the one he slept with him who decided to be a homoi earlier

                                          for the bio, it means he sleeps with both, you know gettin the max of life before the judgment day, a bio, is a homo and a hetro at once

                                          cheers

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