Jinns from the Quran
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Peace claurianta,
angels (which according to the Qur'an are made of light).
I don't recall anything in the great reading saying that they are made of light. Please provide a reference.
Peace,
Ayman
Yikes... you are right. Bloody Sunni ideology infiltrating my mind again. Sorry about that. Now I know.
Question for you though - no doubt that angels exist? Jibril was not a figment of Muhammads imagination, right?
Second question - what about the devil - he's a jinn (1850)... so is he just a figment of the imagination too? The story about the angels prostrating themselves before Adam, and Satan refusing. So we had a bunch of real angels prostrating themselves and the figment of someone's imagination refusing to do so. Please clarify this with respect to your logic. -
Peace Ayman,
Im going to reply to every question you had by simply saying,Human fantasies are apart of mankind and figments of imagination not seperate creatures created by GOD.Jinn were created as seperate beings from fire,men were created from clay..Just As I have quoted in my above post.
If you or anyone else wishes to believe the Quran is all metaphor then thats you all,its not me..Next people will be saying "Well God is a metaphor for the over all conception of creativity and that all the prophets didnt really live etc etc etc...Besides the Quran states that they were created before mankind,so they cant be the fantasies of men..(Surah 15 26 and 27)Let me reiterate for everyone....
1)I believe the Quran is the Word of Allah-the GOD and that He really exists and that he gave it to Muhammad to deliver to mankind.
2)I believe the Quran means what it says and is not metaphors.
3)I believe Angels,Jinns,Iblis,and Prophets really exist.Peace
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Peace Hamza,
2)I believe the Quran means what it says and is not metaphors.
there is a verse in quran itself saying that part of its teaching is allegoric and passes through metaphors. do u really believe there is just one understanding possible ?
lk
Peace Elke,
True there were some things in the Quran similar to what Christians referr to as parables and prophetic symbolism,but the main text I do not believe it metaphors is what I mean.If the Quran says there is shaytan and that Jinns were created then thats what I accept,I dont try to make them into figments of my imagination...
Peace
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Peace be upon you Claurianta,
First, AYMAN great post!!
Claurianta
Question for you though - no doubt that angels exist?The word you are translating as "angel" is "malaika", which comes from the root M-L-K (control). Malaika are "controllers" or "forces of control", something of that nature. Thoughts are what controls outer manifestations. I have no doubt that thoughts exist.
Jibril was not a figment of Muhammads imagination, right?
I would say that Muhammad is a figment of all peoples imagination today because none have met him in order to verify his reality. MU-hammad just means "one who is exalted" or "exalts".
Second question - what about the devil - he's a jinn (1850)...
Iblis is the description of one who is ruled by emotions(shayteen)
so is he just a figment of the imagination too?
A figment sent to give you guidance about your own being and how it works.
The story about the angels prostrating themselves before Adam, and Satan refusing. So we had a bunch of real angels prostrating themselves and the figment of someone's imagination refusing to do so. Please clarify this with respect to your logic.
Adam is the intellect of man, the thoughts hear and obey mans intellect. Iblis is the charatcer type of one who is run by emotions(thoughts that are in movement, not at peace).
The point is, when emotions lead you, you follow the wrong path, emotions are made to SERVEthe intellect(adam), just as the story of Solomon shows us.
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Peace be upon you JHamza,
If the Quran says there is shaytan and that Jinns were created then thats what I accept,I dont try to make them into figments of my imagination...
So you dont care to verify what yuo believe in? You are only interested in a blind faith? This message is for those who reflect and reason, not just accept.
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Peace claurianta,
Yikes... you are right. Bloody Sunni ideology infiltrating my mind again. Sorry about that. Now I know.
It is OK have patience. It takes a while to get "disinfected".
Question for you though - no doubt that angels exist?
If you are talking about the mythical creatures that wear white robes and have halos over their heads then there is no doubt that they DON'T exist.
Jibril was not a figment of Muhammads imagination, right?
No, he wasn't. The Arabic word "mlk" means "controller" not "angel". So Jibril is a controller who brought down the message.
Second question - what about the devil - he's a jinn (1850)... so is he just a figment of the imagination too?
Our imagination is the result of "brainwaves". Brainwaves are a type of electromagnetic energy. Energy was created before humans. This is what Iblis is.
The story about the angels prostrating themselves before Adam, and Satan refusing. So we had a bunch of real angels prostrating themselves and the figment of someone's imagination refusing to do so. Please clarify this with respect to your logic.
You had the controllers agreeing to obey Adam but the fantasy not agreeing to obey him. Had the fantasy obeyed him then we would all be concentrating our creativity and imagination on serving The God and creating beneficial things instead of creating lies, crimes, and destructive things.
As an example, I am sure that everyone had somekind of a bad fantasy at some point, whether it is about getting rich quick or about someone from the opposite sex. Some people let those fantasies go uncontrolled and be exceeding in rebellion ("shaytan") so those fantasies drive them to corrupt in the earth and steal and rape. Others control those fantasies with truth and knowledge and make them obey us and we end up working hard (and smart) and getting married instead.
We can see that the great reading gives us advice that is directly relevant to our salvation. Whether you succeed in this low life and the hereafter is dependent on the above. It is not dependent on some ghosts no more than it is dependent on a jinni in a bottle.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace ayman,
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "controller". Could you define it please?
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Peace JHamza,
Im going to reply to every question you had by simply saying,Human fantasies are apart of mankind and figments of imagination not seperate creatures created by GOD.Jinn were created as seperate beings from fire,men were created from clay..Just As I have quoted in my above post.
The great reading tells us that the "jinn" were created out of smokeless fire. In other words, energy. So the brainwaves (a kind of electromagnetic energy) that result in your fantasies was not created by The God? Who was it created by? Did you create it? Did humans even know that electromagnetic energy exists until recently?
If you or anyone else wishes to believe the Quran is all metaphor then thats you all,its not me..Next people will be saying "Well God is a metaphor for the over all conception of creativity and that all the prophets didnt really live etc etc etc...Besides the Quran states that they were created before mankind,so they cant be the fantasies of men..(Surah 15 26 and 27)
Yes, energy was created before humans. There is nothing amazing about that. This particular form of electromagnetic waves was supposed to obey us and help us accomplish both our purpose to serve The God. We know that it only obeys us when we control it. If we let it control us then it becomes exceeding in rebellion ("shaytan").
1)I believe the Quran is the Word of Allah-the GOD and that He really exists and that he gave it to Muhammad to deliver to mankind.
If you do, then you need to start seeing things from the prespective that The God doesn't create things in vain. The "jinn" have a good purpose. We all accomplish our purpose by obeying The God.
2)I believe the Quran means what it says and is not metaphors.
3)I believe Angels,Jinns,Iblis,and Prophets really exist.So what do you believe "jinn" are? Do you believe that they are ghosts as the traditional sectarians believe?
If so, then what do those ghosts personally have to do with you? Or are "jinn" always "someone else's problem" and the great reading talking about them is not relevant to you?
Why don't you believe that brainwaves (electromagnetic energy) is a creature of The God?
I am open to better interpretations.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Claurianta,
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "controller". Could you define it please?
If you look the word "mlk" (the singular of "malaika") in an arabic dictionary, you will see that it means owner/controller. So its plural means "controllers". This is the real meaning of the word, not angel/angels.
Peace,
Ayman
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jhamza wrote...
Let me reiterate for everyone....1)I believe the Quran is the Word of Allah-the GOD and that He really exists and that he gave it to Muhammad to deliver to mankind.
2)I believe the Quran means what it says and is not metaphors.
3)I believe Angels,Jinns,Iblis,and Prophets really exist.cool! and so far i have seen none been able to refute it except with a figment of their own imagination! -S
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I believe jinn are real creatures, I believe satan is real,I believe Angels(hebrew and greek names mean messengers)
This is all I have to say about it at them time..If others believe they are all energy/fantasies of people then thats them,even though these energies are believed to have been created before men..etc
Peace
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there are others who share the beliefs u stated above! and i must say u have done a pretty neat job with those verses and they are quite conclusive in their verdict of djinns and humans being seperate entities! -)
however the word malaika has its roots in 'mlk' so i dont think 'messenger' would be a good choice for translation (in arabic), though they might serve as messengers of god as and when god wills them to! -) 'mlk' has something to do with control/possessing/owning/dominion! however, in usage we differentiate between who is controlling/possessing etc! as such a queen is 'malika' in arabic and a king is 'malik'! likewise, in singular angel is 'malak' and plural 'malaika'!
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Peace be upon you Ayman,
I cant believe I missed that post brother. Excellent! I have responded more detailed in that thread.
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I believe jinn are real creatures, I believe satan is real,I believe Angels(hebrew and greek names mean messengers)
This is all I have to say about it at them time..If others believe they are all energy/fantasies of people then thats them,even though these energies are believed to have been created before men..etc
peace
thoughts were created before men weren't they?
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Peace,
there are others who share the beliefs u stated above! and i must say u have done a pretty neat job with those verses and they are quite conclusive in their verdict of djinns and humans being seperate entities! -)
however the word malaika has its roots in 'mlk' so i dont think 'messenger' would be a good choice for translation (in arabic), though they might serve as messengers of god as and when god wills them to! -) 'mlk' has something to do with control/possessing/owning/dominion! however, in usage we differentiate between who is controlling/possessing etc! as such a queen is 'malika' in arabic and a king is 'malik'! likewise, in singular angel is 'malak' and plural 'malaika'!
It is good that you know that "malaika" are essentially controllers and not some mythical creatures.
You say that "jinn" are separate entities. Please tell us what those are because I don't believe in ghosts.
Peace,
Ayman