status of women - as seen from The Quran
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hi,
Hello
are u implying polyandry is permitted on earth?
the way I see it from the Quran, is yes it is allowed as long as the other wives are widows with CHILDREN
- It is meant for those who want it, not for every single male. Yet every Muslim man and woman who is allowed to enter Paradise is given the opportunity to get whatever he or she wants as clearly stated in the Quran and many true Hadiths of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). This means that those women who don?t want their husbands to have more could be granted this wish and desire. At the same time if the husbands of those women want to have more than them Allah is great and can satisfy each of them in the way He, the Almighty, wants.
what? roll more of what? sexual satisfaction?
no i did not say sexual satisfaction
I said Allah can satisfy, NOT sexually satisfy
I see staisfaction in many more other thinks but sex, unless you see sex is the only thing that satisfy
- Therefore, a woman should not be frustrated for a privilege of polygamy offered to men. This is not, for sure, at the expense of woman. Paradise is meant for both men and women, both of them are equally entitled to get what they wish for.
polygamy is not permitted on earth. then why would it be in heaven? - Allah mentions the Hoor El Ein because in most cases men pursue women and not vice versa. As for women, Allah Almighty may marry them to any of the believers in Paradise, if they did not get married during worldly life, or He may compensate them by making them feel content with their position. It is also said that Allah may grant women some kind of beauty with which they will feel that they are better than the Hoor El Ein and that they are their mistress, so they will not love anyone other than their own husbands nor will they feel jealous of the Hoor El Ein.?, but if a male is allowed in life to marry more than one with conditions, why not to marry more than one in Paradise without conditions if he is righteous?, and the same for the woman, if she was only allowed to marry only one man in life, what is the wisdom of allowing her to get done by many men in paradise? If a Muslim woman ever thinks that what she deserves then I have to tell you this Muslim woman will never see Paradise
Ridiculous! are u God or God's advisor to decide/tell who marries how many in paradise? and which women should do what?
your comment is sarcastic and stupid and will be ignored
try reading the Quran. polygamy is only mentioned in the case of man marrying mother of orphans in order to take care of them(and not exactly to satisfy his carnal insticts), and that too only becoz those days, due to the battle then, there were loads of widows and very few men. so, Quran doesnt exactly promote polygamy at large to satisfy one's carnal instincts.
lol, are you mixed up or something?
this is what i believe in mister, so before you give me some sacrcastic comments to go and read the , Quran, you should go and read my other comments regarding polygamy
the other day in news i heard an iraqi suicide bomber(14 yr old) saying he wanted to die for the sake of Allah killing innocent civilians becoz he wanted the 40 virgins that are promised in heaven. and i thought ''where did this theory of 40 virgins come from''. now i see, more people seem to carry this belief.
another scarcastic comment, look mister, I'm totally against that crap by the confused terrorists, you should read my comment about the Quran exposing them
now mister what is your point exactly?
peace
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hi,
- It is also mentioned in the true Hadith that the women of this worldly life have superiority over Hoor El Ein due to the acts of worship and obedience that they performed in this world. Therefore, the believing women will enter Paradise just like the believing men. If a woman had a number of husbands, she, upon entering Paradise with them, would choose among them the one with the best character and behaviour
are u implying polyandry is permitted on earth?
the way I see it from the Quran, is yes it is allowed as long as the other wives are widows with CHILDREN
looks like u have misunderstood me here. polyandry is woman having many husbands.
- those women who don?t want their husbands to have more could be granted this wish and desire. At the same time if the husbands of those women want to have more than them
what? roll now, more of what?
but if a male is allowed in life to marry more than one with conditions, why not to marry more than one in Paradise without conditions if he is righteous?, and the same for the woman, if she was only allowed to marry only one man in life, what is the wisdom of allowing her to get done by many men in paradise? If a Muslim woman ever thinks that what she deserves then I have to tell you this Muslim woman will never see Paradise
Ridiculous! are u God or God's advisor to decide/tell who marries how many in paradise? and which women should do what?
your comment is sarcastic and stupid and will be ignored
i am sorry. not meant as sarcasm. but polygamy isnt exactly allowed on earth except if its the only way to protect the widow and her children. now there wont be widows needing protection of men in paradise, will they?
and so ur conclusion is stupid.try reading the Quran. polygamy is only mentioned in the case of man marrying mother of orphans in order to take care of them(and not exactly to satisfy his carnal insticts), and that too only becoz those days, due to the battle then, there were loads of widows and very few men. so, Quran doesnt exactly promote polygamy at large to satisfy one's carnal instincts.
lol, are you mixed up or something?
this is what i believe in mister, so before you give me some sacrcastic comments to go and read the , Quran, you should go and read my other comments regarding polygamypeace.
and no, i am not mixed up.
but check polygamy in Quran.the other day in news i heard an iraqi suicide bomber(14 yr old) saying he wanted to die for the sake of Allah killing innocent civilians becoz he wanted the 40 virgins that are promised in heaven. and i thought ''where did this theory of 40 virgins come from''. now i see, more people seem to carry this belief.
another scarcastic comment, look mister, I'm totally against that crap by the confused terrorists, you should read my comment about the Quran exposing them
again, no sarcasm meant. only a bit shocked. i understand u r not in favour of terrorism thats very good. but that 14 yr old boy out there who is not old enough to know his own good, believes what is being told to him- that he would get 40 virgins in heaven if he dies killing other non muslims.
now mister what is your point exactly?
my point is polygamy is not allowed in earth to satisfy carnal instincts.
and i am a female! -
hi,
Hello
looks like u have misunderstood me here. polyandry is woman having many husbands.
ok, sorry for my lack of english, no I don't believe in polyandry
i am sorry. not meant as sarcasm. but polygamy isnt exactly allowed on earth except if its the only way to protect the widow and her children. now there wont be widows needing protection of men in paradise, will they?
ok thanks, yes this is how I understand polygamy, please note my comment above is not about polygamy, it is about WHY THE QURAN MENTIONED HOOR FOR MEN AND NOT FOR WOMEN and it was on a sunni web site, I'm not a sunni btw and never been in my life, so don't get me wrong please
peace.
and no, i am not mixed up.
but check polygamy in Quran.I know it well sis
here is what I firmly believe in and according to the Quran
if a man wants to marry another woman, she must have children in desperate need and the motive must be to care for her children
and if he chooses to go ahead then he should be aware that he will never be fair between them and consequently Allah said marry only one
hence a true and 100% submitter to Allah must marry only one woman and even we need to worry not about the orphans in this case
again, no sarcasm meant. only a bit shocked. i understand u r not in favour of terrorism thats very good. but that 14 yr old boy out there who is not old enough to know his own good, believes what is being told to him- that he would get 40 virgins in heaven if he dies killing other non muslims.
I agree but I'm not a 14 years old boy rather a 40 years old man, for me I don't believe in this ahadiths about the numbers of hoor we will get, I don't care about the hoor and I'm not looking forward to have'm, I want my only wife with me in paradise if I will ever go there with her
my point is polygamy is not allowed in earth to satisfy carnal instincts.
I agree 100% with your point and sorry for being a bit rude sister
peace
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hi,
oops! were those 7 points of conclusions not urs?
were they from the sunni site?i apologise if they were not ur thoughts.
i just read it and thought some of it was ridiculous. -
hi,
oops! were those 7 points of conclusions not urs?
were they from the sunni site?i apologise if they were not ur thoughts.
i just read it and thought some of it was ridiculous.the 7 points of conclusions were not mine but the top part is all mine, I was only responding to an argument on a sunni forum
hwoever the sunni people didn't like me and they banned me
the reason was simply I was quotaing the Quran alone, they even deleted my first 5 posts which was to show what the Allah says about His wonderful Quran
it was shocking to me to be honest ,for people who call themselves devote sunni muslims and they bloody delete the words of Allah, there was nothing against the sunnah in it it was just becasue I was mentioning Allah alone in the Quran
not really sure if Allah will forgive their shirk, the Quran says it will never happen untill the Camel passes through the hole in the needle
peace
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Salam,
Very interesting subject.....are you implying that we divide wahi and decide that when ever it says men it does not mean women also?
Are you suggesting that men can not mean human beings (women included?) -
Salam,
Very interesting subject.....are you implying that we divide wahi and decide that when ever it says men it does not mean women also?
Are you suggesting that men can not mean human beings (women included?)Peace
Very good question that is also in my mind for long time now, well, i see the Quran means men and women by some verses and men by others and women by others
it will need a carefull study to find all the references in the Quran then carefully looking at its context
peace
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Salam and lol,
That could mean women have far less rules than men if that is the case.
Just something that came to mind. Something to think about. -
Peace dd, all,
I was going to post that link but dd beat me to it !! )
I will however post another link that CONVINCINGLY proves that there is NO POLYGAMY AT ALL according to the Qur'aan and that the allowance of polygamy in the case of orphans is based on a gross mistranslation of the verse (the real meaning of that verse makes perfect sense without any polygamy). If that verse indeed allows polygamy, then it contradicts the Qur'aan in many other places. Check out the article
http//www.free-minds.org/polygamy.htm
Comments on the article will be appreciated.
Regards,
Tanveer
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Peace tanveer
Good article. I had one question though that maybe we can discuss. Maybe I missed it but the author never mentioned why the verse says "two, three or four." I understood that the translation was to marry off orphans (and not marry) but why the "two, three or four?"
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Pease CavemanDoctor,
The verse DOES NOT say two, three, four. It says TWO'S, THREE'S, FOUR'S, meaning group of 2 or two at a time, group of 3 or three at a time, group of 4 or four at a time. Allah wants the guardian of the orphans to MARRY OFF the women orphans in GROUPS OF 2,3, or 4 to avoid hardship.
For example marry off four women to four men at the same time in a group wedding which will be less expensive than to marry the four women one by one in separate weddings, thus avoiding hardship. It is not common practice for one man to MARRY women in two's, three's or four's i.e. 2,3, or 4 women at the same time; however one can MARRY OFF groups of 2 or 3 or 4 women to 2 or 3 or 4 other men.
The words used in verse 43 are "mathna" meaning two's, "thulatha" meaning three's, and "ruba'a" meaning four's. The Arabic word for two is "atnain" not "mathna", for three "talata" not "thulatha", for four "arba'a" not "ruba'a".
For a detailed discussion of verse 43 please see the threads at the following links
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=46275#46275
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=46734#46734
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Pease CavemanDoctor,
The verse DOES NOT say two, three, four. It says TWO'S, THREE'S, FOUR'S, meaning group of 2 or two at a time, group of 3 or three at a time, group of 4 or four at a time. Allah wants the guardian of the orphans to MARRY OFF the women orphans in GROUPS OF 2,3, or 4 to avoid hardship.
For example marry off four women to four men at the same time in a group wedding which will be less expensive than to marry the four women one by one in separate weddings, thus avoiding hardship. It is not common practice for one man to MARRY women in two's, three's or four's i.e. 2,3, or 4 women at the same time; however one can MARRY OFF groups of 2 or 3 or 4 women to 2 or 3 or 4 other men.
The words used in verse 43 are "mathna" meaning two's, "thulatha" meaning three's, and "ruba'a" meaning four's. The Arabic word for two is "atnain" not "mathna", for three "talata" not "thulatha", for four "arba'a" not "ruba'a".
For a detailed discussion of verse 43 please see the threads at the following links
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=46275#46275
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=46734#46734
Peace tanveer
Thanks for all the help and elucidation. I feel my understanding is more complete now. I still have one logical question about the language.
Looking at 44, we see
44 And if you fear you can?t do justice to the orphans, then marry off the women (orphans) who have agreed with you to by twos, by threes and by fours. But if you fear that you will be unfair then (marry off) by one or what your right hand possessed as this is better than getting into hardship.
So since it doesnt use the word two, three, and four, but rather twos, threes, and fours, it is clear that it means in multiples of that as in a group. That much is clear. But the verse follows that up with "but if you fear that you will be unfair then by one." This is not yet computing in my head clearly. It might be something simple that I'm just missing. What's a scenario would this come into play? If I'm unfair about what? About marrying them off in multiples? I guess I'm asking why marrying them off one by one would be more fair? Maybe cause it would make each orphan feel more special?
Whatever the answer, I think it should be tied into "or what your right hand possessed" and "as this is better than getting into hardship."
Peace.
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Peace CavemanDoctor,
But the verse follows that up with "but if you fear that you will be unfair then by one." This is not yet computing in my head clearly. It might be something simple that I'm just missing. What's a scenario would this come into play? If I'm unfair about what? About marrying them off in multiples? I guess I'm asking why marrying them off one by one would be more fair? Maybe cause it would make each orphan feel more special?
I agree with you. Every person is different, and one orphan woman might think that her wedding is not that special in a group setting and that you are being unfair to her by marrying her off in a group, or she does not wish to be married off in a group wedding but wishes to be married off by herself. Then if you marry off only her by herself and the remaining orphans in a group that would be unfair by not treating all of them equally. Also if you marry off one of the orphans by herself and the remaining in a group, the per capita expense of wedding will be more for the single wedding than the group wedding and the other orphans might perceive that you are being unfair by spending more money on one orphan than on the others, or that you are treating one orphan more special than the others combined. In that case marry them off one by one to prevent unfairness.
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Hello All
just a quick note
3 in arabic is actually Thulath, or Thalatha, depends on the tashkil
Talata is the street language version
peace
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Peace
4 3
Yusuf Ali If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans marry women of your choice two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them) then only one or (a captive) that your right hands possess. That will be more suitable to prevent you from doing injustice.
4 127
Yusuf Ali They ask thy instruction concerning the women. Say Allah doth instruct you about them and (remember) what hath been rehearsed unto you in the Book concerning the orphans of women to whom ye give not the portions prescribed and yet whom ye desire to marry as also concerning the children who are weak and oppressed that ye stand firm for justice to orphans. There is not a good deed which ye do but Allah is well-acquainted therewith.
I felt the the above 2 verses are connected , so that it might be important for interpretation.
In 4127 "WHAT HATH BEEN REHEARSED UNTO YOU in the Book concerning the orphans of women" is about the instruction in 43 regarding women. Its like saying already told you certain instructions in 43 regard to the same subject.This is my opinion and I may be wrong . Please add your thoughts to this.
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Peace warner,
Welcome to the forum. welcome
The verses you quoted have been discussed in detail in an article at the following link
http//www.free-minds.org/polygamy.htm
This article proves how these verses have been mistranslated by most translators, and gives the correct translation based on proof from al-qur'aan. Hope that helps.
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Polygamy is allowed in the Quraan
423
Pickthall.....And (it is forbidden unto you) that ye should have two sisters together
Yusuf Ali.....and two sisters in wedlock at one and the same time except for what is pastAlthough Brother Yaseen makes some intersting points, cannot agree to his view
that Polygamy is not allowed in the Quraan .
If it is not allowed the above quoted part of the verse 423 will not be necessary, since you cannot marry 2 or more at the same time how can the question of having 2 sisters at the same
time can be an issue.This is my humble opinion from the Quraan , Please add your thoughts.
Peace
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Peace warner,
Although Brother Yaseen makes some interesting points can not agree with his view
that Polygamy is not allowed in the Quraan .423
Pickthall.....And (it is forbidden unto you) that ye should have two sisters together
Yusuf Ali.....and two sisters in wedlock at one and the same time except for what is pastIf polygamy is not allowed the above quoted part of the verse 423 will not be necessary .
Since you cannot marry 2 or more at the same time how can the question of having 2 sisters at the same
time can be an issue.This is my humble opinion from the Quraan , Please add your thoughts.
Sorry warner, you have no point.
Allah does not allow polygamy ANYWHERE in al-qur'aan.
Firstly, 423 is not permission for polygamy. People used to practice polygamy before revelation of al-qur'aan because they were not following Allah's laws. 423 mentions about a special case of polygamy with 2 sisters which was being practiced BEFORE revelation of al-qur'aan, and Allah forbids that practice after revelation of this verse, but forgives people who did it in the past before the revelation of that verse. This DOES NOT MEAN that Allah is allowing bigamy with 2 sisters.
Secondly, in al-qur'aan, including 43, Allah nowhere allows polygamy, so saying that 423 implies that polygamy is allowed creates CONTRADICTION in Allah's words.
Brother Yaseen's answer to you is as follows, quoted from his article
"Is there ?bigamy? through verse 423?
Prohibited to are- Your mothers, daughters, sisters; father's sisters, Mother's sisters; brother's daughters, sister's daughters; foster-mothers (Who gave you suck), foster-sisters; your wives' mothers; your step-daughters under your guardianship, born of your wives to whom ye have gone in,- no prohibition if ye have not gone in;- (Those who have been) wives of your sons proceeding from your loins; and two sisters in wedlock at one and the same time, except for what is past; for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful;-
?Verse 423? is not about polygamy, or bigamy. It is about incest and incestuous relationships. ?Polygamy? is only visible to a conditioned mind that has taken ?polygamy? as an acceptable practice. The above verse lists the categories of women who are unlawful to a man for marriage be it polygamous or monogamous; you can?t marry your mother and your daughter simultaneously or separately. If any of these types of marriages was in place at the time of revelation, this would not and could not have continued under any circumstances. The last mention in this chain list of incestuous relationships is the ?joining? between the two sisters, that is being married to two sisters at the same time and the exception that follows it, only refers to this latter incestuous relationship only. For those who still insist in seeing polygamy/bigamy, I will ask them one simple question
What about if one was married to 3 sisters at the same time, should he divorce one of the sisters after receiving this revelation?
The main point is in the same way that God did not command believers to free all slaves at once, He also did not command them to divorce all wives except one from polygamous marriages (if say one was married to 3 wives or more), the exception made through incestuous relationships mentioned in verse 423 is for a believer not to divorce any of the two sisters, although the latter is more of an incestuous situation before being a simple polygamous case.
Now if we accept that verse 43 is not about polygamy, are we going to search for bigamy through verse 423?"
Link for the above quote
http//www.geocities.com/yaseen_q/polygamy.html
Regards,
Tanveer
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Salam,
also the quran mentions the WIVES of the prophet.That would mean if quran does not allow polygamy,the prophet would have been breaking quranic rules??That is absurd!
Salam..just my thoughts..any ideas?