Did Lot offer her daughters for sex?
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salaam,
Offer them for marriage is more likely, he offers them for marriage so atleast the men who get married to them will stop transgressing. This is also a hint in my eyes, that even though a man had sexual relationships with the same sex, if he stops and marries a woman, he can't be blamed for his past, because he choose the purer path. God will never advocate sin, nor his messengers, so Lot could only have meant it in "get married to my daughters" type of way.
That it looks like he offers them for sex, has to do with your mind who reads it like that, you fill it in yourself. We have to judge on what God says about Lot, and that should be enough to understand he was a righteous man.
Peace Arnold
Well said arnold
peace
wut about the opinion of his daugthers or they r just a thing which has no mind no rigth nothing
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Salam Arnoldyasin, all,
salaam,
Offer them for marriage is more likely, he offers them for marriage so atleast the men who get married to them will stop transgressing. This is also a hint in my eyes, that even though a man had sexual relationships with the same sex, if he stops and marries a woman, he can't be blamed for his past, because he choose the purer path. God will never advocate sin, nor his messengers, so Lot could only have meant it in "get married to my daughters" type of way.
That it looks like he offers them for sex, has to do with your mind who reads it like that, you fill it in yourself. We have to judge on what God says about Lot, and that should be enough to understand he was a righteous man.
Peace Arnold
I have always had a problem with this theory that Lot offered his daughters for whether marriage or sex because of the following
In Quran, it is clearly stated there is no change to the sunah of Allah, in other words, all the prophets were commanded to follow the same sunah in their life. Part of the wisdom in the Quran, is that believers are supposed to marry/be with believers who do NOT indulge in sex whether with a same sex or opposite outside marriage. So in my mind, it is impossible for Loth to offer his daughters even for marriage and there is no doubt his daughters were believers since God the All-Mighty saved them with Loth. So my understanding of the message Loth wanted to convey through his expression of offering his daughters is simply to say that sex with the opposite sex is the natural law of God the All-Mighty, no more no less-).And God the All-Mighty knows best.
Peace. Myr.this is just opinion which is hardly in compliance with wut is written in Quran n the custom of muslims treating there woman as a commodity is a proof of that after the higrat when mohammed left from makka to madina the peoples of madina (ansars) offer there wives to the muhajirs the immigrents from makka which is in compliance with quran
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Hey naxus
it is up to me to give an opinion or not and in the case of those two comments you posted i chose not to give an opinion
but i'm happy to debate the muslim women status from the Quran and the Bible as well the western women as we see them now, but only if you promise respect, other than that i have no time for schoolies in here
Salam
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Hey naxus
it is up to me to give an opinion or not and in the case of those two comments you posted i chose not to give an opinion
but i'm happy to debate the muslim women status from the Quran and the Bible as well the western women as we see them now, but only if you promise respect, other than that i have no time for schoolies in here
Salam
my remarks were for the peoples who can have an opinion instead of i agree with u bro/sis i just miss quoted u
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Hey naxus
it is up to me to give an opinion or not and in the case of those two comments you posted i chose not to give an opinion
but i'm happy to debate the muslim women status from the Quran and the Bible as well the western women as we see them now, but only if you promise respect, other than that i have no time for schoolies in here
Salam
my remarks were for the peoples who can have an opinion instead of i agree with u bro/sis i just miss quoted u
ok, so if we have about 7 billion humans roughly, you will expect to get 7 billion opinions from them, or do you agree that many of those 7 billions may have the same exact opinion
it seems you are only critisisng, you even called Jesus a fraud, do you understand the consequense of that BS you said about prophet jesus?
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Hey naxus
it is up to me to give an opinion or not and in the case of those two comments you posted i chose not to give an opinion
but i'm happy to debate the muslim women status from the Quran and the Bible as well the western women as we see them now, but only if you promise respect, other than that i have no time for schoolies in here
Salam
my remarks were for the peoples who can have an opinion instead of i agree with u bro/sis i just miss quoted u
ok, so if we have about 7 billion humans roughly, you will expect to get 7 billion opinions from them, or do you agree that many of those 7 billions may have the same exact opinion
it seems you are only critisisng, you even called Jesus a fraud, do you understand the consequense of that BS you said about prophet jesus?
Opinion of every person matters but we got started on the wrong foot here i was quoting u becausie u agree with that other fellow n i want to hear opinion of u too regarding the issue in this thread thats why i quoted both of u
Regarding Jesus u seems n inteligent person asked u,r own self if a person came to u an claims that he is the son of god n he was born to a virgin mother wut will be u,r reaction to that forget about Jesus any person who will came to u with this claim wut will be u,r reaction r u going to accept his claim just be rational leave the emotion on one side n think rationally
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Am I the only one who has a hard time understanding Naxus's posts? Not trying to be mean but....
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Am I the only one who has a hard time understanding Naxus's posts? Not trying to be mean but....
Perhaps! His posts seem quite rational and well thought out, perhaps not exactly in the way 'others' would understand (i.e grammatically)!
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Opinion of every person matters but we got started on the wrong foot here i was quoting u becausie u agree with that other fellow n i want to hear opinion of u too regarding the issue in this thread thats why i quoted both of u
ok I agree that every different opinion matters as long as the opinion had merit not just out of another planet, in the case here, I agreed with the other opinion, i will be stupid if i just repeat what they said, also I considered that they put it in better words than if I tried to do it hence i agreed with them and kept it short and brief
Regarding Jesus u seems n inteligent person
thanks but i will be also happy if you consider me an average IQ human
asked u,r own self if a person came to u an claims that he is the son of god n he was born to a virgin mother wut will be u,r reaction to that forget about Jesus any person who will came to u with this claim wut will be u,r reaction r u going to accept his claim just be rational leave the emotion on one side n think rationally
of course i will accuse that person of being crazy even if it was jesus himself, but you are missing the point here really
There is other entity that told me Jesus is not a god neither there is any gods but Allah, this entity is Allah "the only God", Allah also told me that Jesus was born of a virgin woman, and because I take what Allah says for granted even if it does not make sense, i have to believe 100% that Jesus is not a god neither a son of a god but I also have to believe 100% that he was born of a virgin woman, why? because no human told me as such but Allah "our God " was the one who claimed to have done it, as well according to the Bible and the Quran, Jesus never claimed to be as a son of a god
you can call me crazy, or ancient story tales follower but i won't care really because i will believe what the God says and take it for granted but will never do this with any human even if it was Jesus himself
cheers
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Opinion of every person matters but we got started on the wrong foot here i was quoting u becausie u agree with that other fellow n i want to hear opinion of u too regarding the issue in this thread thats why i quoted both of u
ok I agree that every different opinion matters as long as the opinion had merit not just out of another planet, in the case here, I agreed with the other opinion, i will be stupid if i just repeat what they said, also I considered that they put it in better words than if I tried to do it hence i agreed with them and kept it short and brief
Regarding Jesus u seems n inteligent person
thanks but i will be also happy if you consider me an average IQ human
asked u,r own self if a person came to u an claims that he is the son of god n he was born to a virgin mother wut will be u,r reaction to that forget about Jesus any person who will came to u with this claim wut will be u,r reaction r u going to accept his claim just be rational leave the emotion on one side n think rationally
of course i will accuse that person of being crazy even if it was jesus himself, but you are missing the point here really
There is other entity that told me Jesus is not a god neither there is any gods but Allah, this entity is Allah "the only God", Allah also told me that Jesus was born of a virgin woman, and because I take what Allah says for granted even if it does not make sense, i have to believe 100% that Jesus is not a god neither a son of a god but I also have to believe 100% that he was born of a virgin woman, why? because no human told me as such but Allah "our God " was the one who claimed to have done it, as well according to the Bible and the Quran, Jesus never claimed to be as a son of a god
you can call me crazy, or ancient story tales follower but i won't care really because i will believe what the God says and take it for granted but will never do this with any human even if it was Jesus himself
cheers
Ahmad every religion claims the same if i ask a Hindu about things in his religion which seems illogical to me he will give me the same answer because God told me if i ask a Christen a Jew or a Budhest etc etc all of them have the same answer n that is "God told us" keeping this in mind wut is the difference b/n all of those religions when they use the same logic.
U rejected hadiths because it doesn,t make sense to u but u r accepting Quran which is not making sense either.I,m not going to judge u.U should judge u,r ownself .
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peace
Naxus makes a good point. This is the trap most "quran aloners" get into. They select what they want to judge objectively. Never questioning the quran, but questioning (and making fun of) every other book on the planet. The quran is "the best" book. I don't know if it claims to be perfect, though. Even if it is, we must look at the quran objectively and verify everything it says before we follow it. That's the only way we will know what these verses mean or what they can mean.
so is the quran the word of God? not technically. But if it is from God, the only way we can know is by examining it critically.
BUT i know some people have already found something(s) in the quran that has helped them make up their mind about this.
I'm not accusing anyone of anything. Just making a point. If it doesn't apply to you, ignore it. -
Ahmad every religion claims the same if i ask a Hindu about things in his religion which seems illogical to me he will give me the same answer because God told me if i ask a Christen a Jew or a Budhest etc etc all of them have the same answer n that is "God told us" keeping this in mind wut is the difference b/n all of those religions when they use the same logic.
Hello naxus
Firstly, I agree with your comment that most religion followers if not all will defend their religion hard even if it does not make sense to the common sense that that religion is corrupt, including Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus and Buddhists, even Atheists will defend their Atheism hard
However you assumed that everyone of all these followers is following blindly without deploying the common sense via the brain, I?m sure most follow blindly, but I can assure that a lot also put reasoning in place and think accordingly, it is not fair by you to assume that all these religions followers are dumb, I know many who are smarter than even Einstein, see being smart is not about being exceptional in science, being smart is to calculate the chances of a god existence then make your bet accordingly, I will explain this later,
What I?m trying to say that it is not easy not to be unbiased but there are many who are still unbiased, at least they are not biased to themselves, those people can sit down and spend years analysing the messages from so called god that we have in our hands, and I?m sure if they deploy reasoning the truth will be crystal clear, it does not happen over night though
Now let?s work my chances and yours, I assumed that you reject the existence of God, i.e. an atheist, please correct me of I?m wrong
Let?s also assume for argument sake that there are 4 possible religions that one of them must be true, those religions are
- Hinduism
- Judaism
- Christianity
- Islam
what I meant by being true, i.e. the message that was sent is still preserved and not corrupted by its followers
Let?s now add you religion to the above 4 which is assumed Atheism, each one will have a probability, let?s make all of them equal, i.e.?
- Hinduism 20%
- Judaism 20%
- Christianity 20%
- Islam 20%
- Atheism 20%
i.e. there is a 20% chance for each of the above 5 probabilities to be true
all the first 4 say that there will be severe punishment for the rejectors, as well will be a generous reward for the followers
Atheism on the other hand say there is nothing after death, i.e. there is no punishment nor reward
Now let?s assume there is a god
My chance to be severely punished will be 60%
Your chance will be 80%
See, I?m better
Now for the reward, I have 20% chance
And you have zero chance
I?m still better, LOL
Now if there is no god
Well who cares about chances here bro, me and you will be safe i.e. non existents anymore
Now if we say the chanceof a god is 50%
Then the final chances for me and you if the 50% probability is to pass
Me will have ? * 3/5 = 3/10 = 30% chance to be punished
You will have this chance ? * 4/5 = 4/10 = 40% chance to be punished
See how I will always be in better situation
The ironic note is this
If there is no god, what the hell I lost?, nothing for sure, I might even had a better life than yours ?I wish you the best of course?, I mean, I might had resources in life that enabled me to enjoy it better than you while keeping the faith in God
See an god rejector has 40% chance to be humiliated bad with no chance of winning even if there is no God, they are the ultimate losers in my eyes, and for me they earned the title Dumb very well, sorry
U rejected hadiths because it doesn,t make sense to u but u r accepting Quran which is not making sense either.I,m not going to judge u.U should judge u,r ownself .
That?s is not true, because I never rejected the hadith as a whole, I only accept from them what the Quran qualifies, the rest is straight into the rubbish bin, and even the accepted ones are nothing but a mere history record for me and in no way can be compared to the God?s words,
I always play it safe and if I will bet, I have to make sure that most likely I will win at the end, there is no blind following in my life, even to my parents, in fact my parents hardly taught me anything, I was taught the real life by the best teacher, that teach is our God
Peace bro
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it is not fair by you to assume that all these religions followers are dumb, I know many who are smarter than even Einstein,
I don,t know any one smarter than Einstein. He has done more good for humunity than any one else in human history.
However you assumed that everyone of all these followers is following blindly without deploying the common sense via the brain, I?m sure most follow blindly, but I can assure that a lot also put reasoning in place and think accordingly, it is not fair by you to assume that all these religions followers are dumb,
I,m not asuming any thing i believe wut i observe the fact that religion is an obstruction in the advancement of humanity is not a hidden secret from Christinity Islam to Hinduism these beliefs r still hindering humans from advancement the fact that the countries with secular laws r more advanced and safe for living a god life is a reallty n the fact that theostatic states r failiers is a fact you can not deny.
What I?m trying to say that it is not easy not to be unbiased but there are many who are still unbiased, at least they are not biased to themselves, those people can sit down and spend years analysing the messages from so called god that we have in our hands, and I?m sure if they deploy reasoning the truth will be crystal clear, it does not happen over night though
The message of God is for every one to understand. When it is confines to a specific language specific peoples or i may say a specific sex than it is bias and something bias is not from God.
Now let?s work my chances and yours, I assumed that you reject the existence of God, i.e. an atheist, please correct me of I?m wrong
No i have rejected the charlatans not God i believe on God but i don,t believe on any religion for that.
Let?s also assume for argument sake that there are 4 possible religions that one of them must be true, those religions are
- Hinduism
- Judaism
- Christianity
- Islam
what I meant by being true, i.e. the message that was sent is still preserved and not corrupted by its followers
Let?s now add you religion to the above 4 which is assumed Atheism, each one will have a probability, let?s make all of them equal, i.e.?
- Hinduism 20%
- Judaism 20%
- Christianity 20%
- Islam 20%
- Atheism 20%
i.e. there is a 20% chance for each of the above 5 probabilities to be true
all the first 4 say that there will be severe punishment for the rejectors, as well will be a generous reward for the followers
Atheism on the other hand say there is nothing after death, i.e. there is no punishment nor reward
Now let?s assume there is a god
My chance to be severely punished will be 60%
Your chance will be 80%
See, I?m better
Now for the reward, I have 20% chance
And you have zero chance
I?m still better, LOL
Now if there is no god
Well who cares about chances here bro, me and you will be safe i.e. non existents anymore
Now if we say the chanceof a god is 50%
Then the final chances for me and you if the 50% probability is to pass
Me will have ? * 3/5 = 3/10 = 30% chance to be punished
You will have this chance ? * 4/5 = 4/10 = 40% chance to be punished
See how I will always be in better situation
I didn,t know whether to laugh or cry on the above statement of yours.You are talking about probablities,Probablility is likeliwood of something happening it is not certain.
My stance on God is that if there is a God than that God will treat every one on the merit of good rather than on beilieves.Every person in this world has there own problems there own circumstances.We could not judge every one with the same glasses.A person born in Africa has his own situations a person in Asia or any other part of world can not judge him according to there own circumstances.
Qualty of good which a God can judge veries from a person to person.
For example there is a millionier who give a grant of 10,000 dollars to a charity organization n a simple person who just has one bread to eat but when he saw a hungry child he give half of this bread to that poor child.On papper half of a bread is in no comprision to 10000$ but on the base of Good deed those 10000$ has no chance against that peace of bread that simple person is more richer than that millionier he sacrifice his own wish or cumfort for some one else the millionier doesnot have any effect on him self while the simple person does get effected n he have sleep with a empty stomach on that night .Its only God who can judge both of them to perfection.
What i mean to say is that will you want to know the religions of these guys or you will just see there deed i believe that God will judge us on our deeds rather than believes.
Religion is an easy way out any thing you do bad you have Satan to blame
If there is no god, what the hell I lost?, nothing for sure, I might even had a better life than yours ?I wish you the best of course?, I mean, I might had resources in life that enabled me to enjoy it better than you while keeping the faith in God
See an god rejector has 40% chance to be humiliated bad with no chance of winning even if there is no God, they are the ultimate losers in my eyes, and for me they earned the title Dumb very well, sorry
What you are doing is competing others.On the other hand i don,t need that competition i beleive only my own deeds will effect me rather than the deeds of others .Your belief have no effect on me .You need to win to satisfy your self i,m already satisfied .
That?s is not true, because I never rejected the hadith as a whole, I only accept from them what the Quran qualifies, the rest is straight into the rubbish bin, and even the accepted ones are nothing but a mere history record for me and in no way can be compared to the God?s words,
Infact i have the same believe as you but offcourse with a difference i only accept the good from any religion or any person n the rest is in rubbish bin just like you do
I always play it safe and if I will bet, I have to make sure that most likely I will win at the end, there is no blind following in my life, even to my parents, in fact my parents hardly taught me anything, I was taught the real life by the best teacher, that teach is our God
Again you want to win well best of luck for that. What you do is blind following whether you accept it or not when you accept Jesus born to a virgin mother it is blind following you can not give any logical explaination for that to me
Peace
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Peace naxus. Some excellent points made. idea
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peace kgb and all. Its also the common hearsay,misinterpretation and idolisation of the quran which is a hindrance to humanity...,and thus the quran is made into a tool for exploitation,oppression,justification of evil, and ignorance...
Peace all.