Destiny of those praying 5x towards the cube?
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Peace brother Ahmed,
Thank you for your post above and the qur'aanic verses. I need time to go through all of them and verify the information you provided. Meanwhile I have a comment on your post to brother bmbmm
Peace bro
take your time man, this is not a debate with you any way , this was info to the public
Moses was already a submitter then when he saw the mountain crashing he Kharra on the ground, i.e. physically fell down
the believers on the other hand are also belivers already so when they are reminded with Allah message, the will kharro to the ground, but not because they lost consciousness but because of their submision status, so when they Kharro on the ground i guess it will be for doing sijood and not to have a rest for sure
In this, you are obviously referring to 3215; I thought you said that "kharra" in that verse was metaphorical, and not actually falling to the ground but here you seem to be contradicting yourself when you say "they will kharro to the ground" (as highlighted by me above in the quote) which makes it physical and not metaphorical. So which is it ? Is it metaphorical, in which case it is NOT ACTUALLY FALLING TO GROUND or is it physical ?
this is a silly question bro, I explained the word kharra in details, and it means falling to the ground physically, but the conetext where it is used will tell us as a metaphor or phiscal, but what follow the woprd kharra next may not be a metaphor which is the sijood or any other action, i.e. the sijood can be both metaphorical and physical depending on the context, try it with yourslef, when you are reminded with Allah message, do you go to the ground in submission?, well i did both, not going to the ground and just reflect on it and sometimes going to the ground performing sijood in a submission status while reflecting on it in my sijood, see i don't know why you are making complicated on yourself?
Some quick comments to your long post. You have failed to show how it is physically and scientifically possible to face al-masjid al-haram WHEREVER ONE IS,
as i said it is an otder to face a direction, it is not to point to a specific point all at once, i careless to prove it scientifcally but you can follow the author schoolie science he provided that we will be po\inting to mars, this is also flawed by him, because everything is relative according to science as you know
when Allah said don't drink khamr, i don't need to prove it scietifically, i hear and obey, this is my choice according to the Quran, if you want to do something else fine so be it, my science is only the literal Quran verses, anything else is really BS for me even the best scientist in the world, as if being a scietist will make you a believer
if it is a physical building. That would be a huge contradiction with Allah's words.
it is a physical direction, and al masjid al harm is in that direction , now according to Eienstien, the gravity makes light bends, therefore for the light to go in a straight line is nothing but not true anyway unless there is no gravity at all in the universe, so I'm not going to get into that confusion trying to caculate when i point straight where it will point exactly, in fact if i keep walking following the direction to al masjid al haram I'm sure i will hit it head on, but I will not accuse Allah of such non sense, because Allah never suggested that we are doing it for the building, it was done according to the Quran as an order from Allah and the quran also told us that many people will try to make non sense out of it exactly as you do and your author is doing, but Allah told us to fear Him and not fear the people in the same very verse he told us about that direction, now after discovering that the earth is round you say this is non sense by Him, fine you can take your defence argument to him in the judgment day and tell him that i found i will be facing Mars so i didn't obey the order but I heard it though wink
You have also failed to provide any archeological evidence of the existence of a physical building by the name of al-masjid al-haram at the time of revelation of the qur'aan.
Oh yeh all these history records are fake, bloody oath as if all humanity conspired to fool themselves, this is a joke
it seems you need to read history but from authentic sources, it is not like I will find am ancient video tape about a building with a wrotten sign on it called al masjid al haram, then take it be a conclusive evidence, well my science is called the common sense and based on Allah words in His Quran, now I showed enough verses that proved beyond dounbt that it is a physical structure, it can't be anything else indeed, why not responding to all these verses that i'm posted and refute it using the Quran?, not science please?
because science said people come form a man and a woman, but Allah told us Adam, Adam's partner and Jesus didn't come from a man and a woman, so you don't accept it because Science could not prove while Allah said as such?
for those who deny that about thoise humans created via a science contradiction, I guess their god is science NOT ALLAH
do they took a creature "Science created by Allah from the first place" as their god, a typical case of making partners to Allah lol
my evidence is what Allah said in his quran and for 1400 years through all gerneration, this was confirmed
now if you ask me any question in the future, you have to know that i only use the Quran, i don't use any human made theories even if it is true, because at the end of the day, i will follow Allah in His quran and will not follow the ignornat and arrogant and possibly corrupt humans who challenge Him in his clear messages
it is just another style of R K BS
That was my last comment for this subject, but as you have seen I have not tackled the word Masjid Alone yet from the Quran and that is another long comment I'm preparing from the Quran for the public to see with their own eyes that according to the arabic Quran, Masjid, can only mean a physical place when sijood to Allah is performed
Peace
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peace
I just want to say that in the story (if) Moses did fall down physically, that doesn't mean there is no symbolic significance to his falling down or Moses himself as a person.
Peace
please be aware that i was explaining the word Kharra, and in Moses case it was due to him being unconcious not really to submit to Allah, but I agreed that it can be metaphrical in the case of Sijood, as in the verse about hearing Allah reminders that make believers Yakhorro to the ground performing sijood, but also it can be physical, as both cases happened to me and I know it happened to others who are close, it is circumstancial and depends on a lot of things, including humbling, my personal current affairs "good or bad" while my daily life takes its course
salam
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peace,
HE is always available , but our soul NOT.We are born every morning and die every night.
We offer our thankfullness for our existence and opportunities given to us during each day that we are reborn. By thanking GOD we will try to become most positive elements of creation to see good, create good and get aware of the blessing bestowed upon us AND REMIND US OF HIS PRESENCE AND HIS BLESSINGS.
We applogize for the missed opportunities to let go of our selfish desires and that we have failed to make a difference and all our other shortcomings DUE TO OUR SELFISHNESS OR UNAWARNESS.
This bowing down and prostration which goes through our hearts can be also synchronized with physical motion, if it helps one to intensify the mental process. I prefer personaly to pray just before sunrise and sunset in which the nature reveals its beauty.
How many times a day. In which form, how long and other apects of THE FORM ARE OF NO IMPORTANCE. Each Soul can experiment on them.
THE ESSENCE IS THE SUBMISSION OF SOUL.
THOSE CONFINDING THEMSELVES IN FORMS AND FIGHTING ON THEM ARE MISSING A LOT.peace,
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peace,
HE is always available , but our soul NOT.We are born every morning and die every night.
We offer our thankfullness for our existence and opportunities given to us during each day that we are reborn. By thanking GOD we will try to become most positive elements of creation to see good, create good and get aware of the blessing bestowed upon us AND REMIND US OF HIS PRESENCE AND HIS BLESSINGS.
We applogize for the missed opportunities to let go of our selfish desires and that we have failed to make a difference and all our other shortcomings DUE TO OUR SELFISHNESS OR UNAWARNESS.
This bowing down and prostration which goes through our hearts can be also synchronized with physical motion, if it helps one to intensify the mental process. I prefer personaly to pray just before sunrise and sunset in which the nature reveals its beauty.
How many times a day. In which form, how long and other apects of THE FORM ARE OF NO IMPORTANCE. Each Soul can experiment on them.
THE ESSENCE IS THE SUBMISSION OF SOUL.
THOSE CONFINDING THEMSELVES IN FORMS AND FIGHTING ON THEM ARE MISSING A LOT.peace,
very well said
thanks
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Salam,
I think its necessary to contemplate and reflect often, but not towards a direction or a physical structure, as this can develop into idol worship and waste of time and resources.
Peace
I wish you enlightment and guidance in your prayers which HE only can give us.
peace,
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Peace brother Ahmed, all,
I have started a new thread to discuss if "al-masjid al-haram" is a physical building according to the qur'aan and my article contains the replies to the qur'aanic evidence brought forth by brother Ahmed. The thread is at the following link
Is "al-masjid al-haram" a physical building ?"
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Peace brother Ahmed, all,
I have started a new thread to discuss if "al-masjid al-haram" is a physical building according to the qur'aan and my article contains the replies to the qur'aanic evidence brought forth by brother Ahmed. The thread is at the following link
Is "al-masjid al-haram" a physical building ?"
Thank you bro, i will have a look at it later today
cheers
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Salam,
Clearly the masjid-al-haram is not a physical structure. 1. The structure named as masjid-al-haram around the cube was not there. Its is so simple to understand that masjid-al-haram is not a structure It wasn't there! 2. Structures do not last forever. 3. There should be signs of Abrahim in masjid-al-haram However there ain't any there, if masjid-al-haram is turned into a structure. Please let me and the people know if there are any ) ?
Peace
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Peace brother bmbmm,
I commented on your post in the new thread about "al-masjid al-haram". Can you please post your reply in that thread for convenience ? The thread is at the following link
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5437
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Peace brother Ahmed, all,
I have started a new thread to discuss if "al-masjid al-haram" is a physical building according to the qur'aan and my article contains the replies to the qur'aanic evidence brought forth by brother Ahmed. The thread is at the following link
Is "al-masjid al-haram" a physical building ?"
Thank you bro, i will have a look at it later today
cheers
Peace tanveermd
I read it but i won't respond to it yet, in fact here is a new idea for the both of us
if you really want to debate this issue (possibly others) seriously then i can debate it with you but only if we have a healthy debate enviroment, this is not something we will leave to our emotiopns during the debate rather it has to be forced on us, and the only way to do it is to have judges and rules
you choose two judges and i choose two, then me, you and the judges create the rules that will govern the debate, these rules will be very strict and all must obey it
if you initially agree, then nominate your two judges, and i will nominate mine, then if the judges agree to join us we can move to the next step which will be the rules and after everyone involved is happy with the rules we can start debating al masjid al haram
other than that bro i have no time to waste while the both of us insisting on their stands
cheers
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Peace brother Ahmed,
I stated my understanding based on the words of The God using my mind and reason and knowledge. I am not perfect and cannot say that my understanding is perfect. I always keep an open mind and am willing to change my understanding if I come across solid proof based on the truth refuting my understanding. I am neither looking to win over anyone, nor force someone else to accept my understanding. Remember there is no compulsion in religion.
Our objective should be to use our God given abilities of reason and mind to seek the truth, based on the true words of The God, and to discuss things with an open mind and try to learn from each other. We will always be limited by our imperfect minds, but as long as we make a sincere effort to seek the truth based on the words of The God, and implement it in our lives, then even if we have some differences in our understandings, I believe The God will forgive. Only The God knows what is in our hearts and only He can be our true judge.
We both stated our understandings and brought forth our proofs from the qur'aan. Now it is upto the readers and us to make up our own minds and form our own understanding and follow the best of it. The important thing is not to uphold anything we have no knowledge of, and to follow The God only, and not follow our desires, egos, preconceived notions and pre-programmed ideas, or unverifiable hearsays or rumors. We all should heed the advice of The God in the following verses
3918 The ones who listen to what is being said, and then follow the best of it. These are the ones whom God has guided, and these are the ones who possess intelligence.
1736 And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and mind, all these you are responsible for.
3029 No, those who were wrong followed their desires without knowledge. So who can guide one whom God misguides? And they will have no victors.
In the end, only Allah guides. May Allah guide us all towards the truth so that we can submit/surrender to Him according to His will.
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Peace brother Ahmed,
I stated my understanding based on the words of The God using my mind and reason and knowledge. I am not perfect and cannot say that my understanding is perfect. I always keep an open mind and am willing to change my understanding if I come across solid proof based on the truth refuting my understanding. I am neither looking to win over anyone, nor force someone else to accept my understanding. Remember there is no compulsion in religion.
Our objective should be to use our God given abilities of reason and mind to seek the truth, based on the true words of The God, and to discuss things with an open mind and try to learn from each other. We will always be limited by our imperfect minds, but as long as we make a sincere effort to seek the truth based on the words of The God, and implement it in our lives, then even if we have some differences in our understandings, I believe The God will forgive. Only The God knows what is in our hearts and only He can be our true judge.
We both stated our understandings and brought forth our proofs from the qur'aan. Now it is upto the readers and us to make up our own minds and form our own understanding and follow the best of it. The important thing is not to uphold anything we have no knowledge of, and to follow The God only, and not follow our desires, egos, preconceived notions and pre-programmed ideas, or unverifiable hearsays or rumors. We all should heed the advice of The God in the following verses
3918 The ones who listen to what is being said, and then follow the best of it. These are the ones whom God has guided, and these are the ones who possess intelligence.
1736 And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and mind, all these you are responsible for.
3029 No, those who were wrong followed their desires without knowledge. So who can guide one whom God misguides? And they will have no victors.
In the end, only Allah guides. May Allah guide us all towards the truth so that we can submit/surrender to Him according to His will.
That's the way i prefer it to mate, i just thought you wanted to debate it with me because you repeated some of the same info posted here
however man, i picked up at least one obvious mistake in it and i will tell you later about it as i'm very busy and read to read it one more time
thank you
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Peace tanvermed. Very good post. I would also say that the words of god are not limited or exclusive to just reading the quran...
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Peace brother Ahmed, all,
I have started a new thread to discuss if "al-masjid al-haram" is a physical building according to the qur'aan and my article contains the replies to the qur'aanic evidence brought forth by brother Ahmed. The thread is at the following link
Is "al-masjid al-haram" a physical building ?"
Thank you bro, i will have a look at it later today
cheers
Peace tanveermd
I read it but i won't respond to it yet, in fact here is a new idea for the both of us
if you really want to debate this issue (possibly others) seriously then i can debate it with you but only if we have a healthy debate enviroment, this is not something we will leave to our emotiopns during the debate rather it has to be forced on us, and the only way to do it is to have judges and rules
you choose two judges and i choose two, then me, you and the judges create the rules that will govern the debate, these rules will be very strict and all must obey it
if you initially agree, then nominate your two judges, and i will nominate mine, then if the judges agree to join us we can move to the next step which will be the rules and after everyone involved is happy with the rules we can start debating al masjid al haram
other than that bro i have no time to waste while the both of us insisting on their stands
cheers
Salam Ahmed,
I think we do not need a debate as its clear that masjid-al-haram is not a structure. Even if its a structure than it should be arround the cube as according to you. Well historically it wasn't. So I think if you want to debate you have to convince us that 1. it was there. 2.why is it haram. 3 signs of Abrahem in masjid-al-haram? 4. Do we have to face the cube or the structure around the cube? 5. Why spin anti-clockwise? 6. What is the black stone? 7. Any manetion of the place in Jewish or Christian scriptures? 8. Does the foot-prints belong to Abrahim? 9. Why would Abrahim leave his wife in the desert? 10. What signs do we have of the footprint?
You can initiate a debate if you can convince us about this.
Remember 1736 And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and mind, all these you are responsible for.
Peace -
Salam Ahmed,
I think we do not need a debate as its clear that masjid-al-haram is not a structure. Even if its a structure than it should be arround the cube as according to you. Well historically it wasn't. So I think if you want to debate you have to convince us that 1. it was there. 2.why is it haram. 3 signs of Abrahem in masjid-al-haram? 4. Do we have to face the cube of the structure around the cube? 5. Why spin anti-clockwise? 6. What is the black stone? 7. Any manetion of the place in Jewish or Christian scriptures? 8. Are the foot-prints belong to Abrahim? 9. Why would Abrahim leave his wife in the desert? You can initiate a debate if you can convince us about this.
Peace
Salam Bmbmm
as I stated many times man, I'm not challenging others in what they believe in, but if it affect a major point in the faith then I will only post my comments to the public to read as a counter action, nothing more really,
now for me to get into a serious and constructive debate, I can only do it with judges and rules in place, if you would like to do it with me regarding al masjid al haram, then i will appreciate that you accept these fair and logical condition then both of us take the stand and get it going, nominating the judges and making the rules with them, you have to know I have to accept your judges and you have to accept mine
other than this man, we can leave it at this, you believe in what you want to believe in, the same right to me, as well you post what you post and I do the same and life goes on
now all the question you raised regarding al masjid ak haram can be taken included in your proposition to the judges
let me know
Salam