Reincarnation
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Peace,
Good reply, yes, this is something we have to investigate. I just wanted to check the motives and background. I was always intruiged by the 'death' while sleeping. To bad my arabic is to bad to discuss the arabic uses of words surrounding this subject. But i can write down the history of reincarnation. And i'm not blaming the general, without him it wouldn't have spread like it had done. And then reincarnation maybe wouldn't ever be as known as it is now.
But i have researched a lot on the sciencitfical factors involving reincarnation. You've probably read the scientific approach topic i've written. And that summed together with history and my understanding of the Quran now, gives a negative answer on the old understanding of reincarnation.
Peace all
I thought that some of the information you posted were pointing towards reincarnation and not against it especially some of the links..
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No, then you've misunderstood it. It shows people don't get reborn on this world, and that children and people who remember past lives only tap into other people's memories that are left in the Quantum field. As for the recreation, you don't get recreated as something else, that is the reincarnation theory, that is what i'm trying to tell you. Reincarnation theory is that our present actions will determine our next rebirth on this wotld, and then we can end up as a human, animal or plant. That is the reincarnation theory. What i've told in my topic, is that we get recreated after our deaths, in a new universe, not on this earth And yes, our present actions will affect that new existence heavily.
But it doesn't support that we get born again on this world. We get recreated, in the 'same' bodies, the same design, and it will be the same conciousness. Only it will have the structure of your dominant features and behaviours you had on this earth.
So no, this is not reincarnation in the dogmatic sense, it coincides clearly with the Quranic resurrection, in a new universe, and yes i believe the universe will be created again after that, as the Quran also states. But reincarnation says you get reborn again on this world, and this scientific theory is against that.Peace
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Hello All,
I have previously argued that allowing souls to experience full range of human experiences is more intellectually satisfying idea. And because of the reality of eternal hell is so terrible, I feel that it is more "just" for a compassionate and loving God to allow individuals an infinite number of chances to redeem themselves before they "stand" before "God". But I know apart from a single reference in the Quran, the whole reincarnational path to redemption is not supported by the scripture.
I would like to believe in a "reincarnational" path to our redemption. But I still ask myself this question "Redemption" implies that I have commited a "crime" previously. But I have no memory of that "crime". I have no way of verifying this. And I do not believe in the Christian doctrine of "original sin" because I have no way of verifying this either. And also because I am nothing like my father. I would like to think that we are born innocent so no sins of the father affecting the destiny of the child. The child has its own path - so what is it that I am redeeming myself against? To answer that Hinduism came up with the idea of "Karmic" debt. Perhaps this is like an "Indianised" version of the "Original Sin". And if we are indeed redeeming against our "Karmic" debt so that when we have karmic debt of zero, we will be liberated and hence enlightenment. But again how did we acquire the Karmic debt in the first place? And if Karmic debt was zero to start with then there was no need for to be born was there?
I also think that Karmic Debt idea has been mis-used by human beings to justify the creation of the CASTE system which becomes "Divinely Sanctioned" Apartheid. And Apartheid is systematisation of Racism. The Indian Caste system still blights that lives of millions of people in the Indian Subcontinent including Muslims too. We could not accept "Bantustan" in South Africa on political terms - why would we accept CASTE System based on religious ground.
The idea that if we are born armless and legless it means that we have maimed other individuals in our past life sounds very "just" punishment - or is it? Many people in the west have done away with the "Eye For an Eye, Tooth for a Tooth" justice system. Therefore how can we say that "Eye for an Eye, Tooth for a tooth justice" system operates on a Cosmic Karmic Scale? Also there does not seem to be the element of "Forgiveness" in the "Eye for an Eye, Tooth for a Tooth" justice system, and Forgiveness plays an very important role in the whole redemption process.
I also find that it is kind of heartless to view someone and say this person is severly disabled because of his sins in the past life. But it is not is it? His or hers disability can be traced to fluke of genetics. The fault in the mindless DNA copy process in the individual germ cells. To say that we choose to born disabled so that we can experience disability sounds interesting idea. But would you choose to be born disabled? I feel that I don't have to born disabled to experience disability. I can explore disability through my imagination. Just like we can explore the full range of human pridicament through art and literature. But perhaps the imaginative experience is not same as the "real" experience. But still feel that we are more inclined to be more compassinate towards the disabled individuals when we ourselves feel that we have been blessed with good health...others perhaps might think the opposite...
I am begining to think that LIFE is not TEST anymore nor it is about working towards a Karmic Debt of zero. But rather I like to think LIFE as an EXPLORATION in the infinite possibility of Existence within the reality that many have called "God". To what end? So that we can comprehend the "infinity" of "God" and then? then we would become identical with the ONE. This known as "fanaa" in Sufi msyticism...Nirvana in Budhism etc... In that scenario everyone wishes to born normal in the world of matter to explore LIFE but how they are born is determined by the laws of nature.
So I have voted for reincarnation in the sense of Exploration of LIFE's infinite possibility of existence so that we come to know "God"...
Regards,
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The man in the ayah said many words expressing his regret and not just one word.
Peace Taj
I'm preparing a long quran comment rearding this subject biut it will take me some time
regarding the word kalimah
yes it means one word, however it can be used metaphorically to represent more than one word, the Quran used it as such many times
peace
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No, then you've misunderstood it. It shows people don't get reborn on this world, and that children and people who remember past lives only tap into other people's memories that are left in the Quantum field. As for the recreation, you don't get recreated as something else, that is the reincarnation theory, that is what i'm trying to tell you. Reincarnation theory is that our present actions will determine our next rebirth on this wotld, and then we can end up as a human, animal or plant. That is the reincarnation theory. What i've told in my topic, is that we get recreated after our deaths, in a new universe, not on this earth And yes, our present actions will affect that new existence heavily.
But it doesn't support that we get born again on this world. We get recreated, in the 'same' bodies, the same design, and it will be the same conciousness. Only it will have the structure of your dominant features and behaviours you had on this earth.
So no, this is not reincarnation in the dogmatic sense, it coincides clearly with the Quranic resurrection, in a new universe, and yes i believe the universe will be created again after that, as the Quran also states. But reincarnation says you get reborn again on this world, and this scientific theory is against that.Peace
Salam Arnold,
I only wish that you support what you write with Ayat Al Quran.. Thanx
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The man in the ayah said many words expressing his regret and not just one word.
Peace Taj
I'm preparing a long quran comment rearding this subject biut it will take me some time
regarding the word kalimah
yes it means one word, however it can be used metaphorically to represent more than one word, the Quran used it as such many times
peace
Salam Ahmed,,
I appreciate your input. From my understanding of Al Quran the word 'Kalimah' does not only mean word but also used to emphasize a big meaning a beginning or end, a final decision or a big statement...
I think there is a word in English that fits that meaning..
Easa (pbuh) is a word from Allah.
To say that Allah has begotten a son is one big dreadful word to come out of their mouths..I mean the word 'Kalimah' in the Quran is not used for expression of feelings.. Even those who said that Allah has begotten a son,, they say it as if it was Allah who said so..
The word 'Kalimah' in , to my understanding, does not belong to the person when he was expressing his regrets..Will be looking forward to your study.
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Hi Lote,
Hello All,
I would like to believe in a "reincarnational" path to our redemption. But I still ask myself this question "Redemption" implies that I have commited a "crime" previously. But I have no memory of that "crime". I have no way of verifying this. And I do not believe in the Christian doctrine of "original sin" because I have no way of verifying this either. And also because I am nothing like my father. I would like to think that we are born innocent so no sins of the father affecting the destiny of the child. The child has its own path - so what is it that I am redeeming myself against? To answer that Hinduism came up with the idea of "Karmic" debt. Perhaps this is like an "Indianised" version of the "Original Sin". And if we are indeed redeeming against our "Karmic" debt so that when we have karmic debt of zero, we will be liberated and hence enlightenment. But again how did we acquire the Karmic debt in the first place? And if Karmic debt was zero to start with then there was no need for to be born was there?
We are born innocent, so maybe the soul will change during sleep, some time later?
The idea that if we are born armless and legless it means that we have maimed other individuals in our past life sounds very "just" punishment - or is it? Many people in the west have done away with the "Eye For an Eye, Tooth for a Tooth" justice system. Therefore how can we say that "Eye for an Eye, Tooth for a tooth justice" system operates on a Cosmic Karmic Scale? Also there does not seem to be the element of "Forgiveness" in the "Eye for an Eye, Tooth for a Tooth" justice system, and Forgiveness plays an very important role in the whole redemption process.
We don't know whether it is a test or a punishment? That is the thing.
I also find that it is kind of heartless to view someone and say this person is severly disabled because of his sins in the past life. But it is not is it? His or hers disability can be traced to fluke of genetics. The fault in the mindless DNA copy process in the individual germ cells. To say that we choose to born disabled so that we can experience disability sounds interesting idea. But would you choose to be born disabled? I feel that I don't have to born disabled to experience disability. I can explore disability through my imagination. Just like we can explore the full range of human pridicament through art and literature. But perhaps the imaginative experience is not same as the "real" experience. But still feel that we are more inclined to be more compassinate towards the disabled individuals when we ourselves feel that we have been blessed with good health...others perhaps might think the opposite...
We cannot judge because we don't know why the disability, which can 'hit' at anytime. The disability can be a test, or maybe a lesson, to the people who are around the disabled.
I am begining to think that LIFE is not TEST anymore nor it is about working towards a Karmic Debt of zero. But rather I like to think LIFE as an EXPLORATION in the infinite possibility of Existence within the reality that many have called "God". To what end? So that we can comprehend the "infinity" of "God" and then? then we would become identical with the ONE. This known as "fanaa" in Sufi msyticism...Nirvana in Budhism etc... In that scenario everyone wishes to born normal in the world of matter to explore LIFE but how they are born is determined by the laws of nature.
I need to think of that..
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Salam "LT",
...And I do not believe in the Christian doctrine of "original sin" because I have no way of verifying this either. And also because I am nothing like my father. I would like to think that we are born innocent so no sins of the father affecting the destiny of the child. The child has its own path - so what is it that I am redeeming myself against?
JK- I believe you didnt understand the concept clearly. Think of it like this that we all sinned WITHIN Adam. We were all part of Adam and this is indicated in the Quran by the following verse
Recall that your Lord summoned all the descendants of Adam from, and had them bear witness for themselves "Am I not your Lord?" They all said, "Yes. We bear witness." Thus, you cannot say on the Day of Resurrection, "We were not aware of this."
Yusuf Ali
When thy Lord drew forth from the Children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants, and made them testify concerning themselves, (saying) "Am I not your Lord (who cherishes and sustains you)?"- They said "Yea! We do testify!" (This), lest ye should say on the Day of Judgment "Of this we were never mindful"
Pickthal
And (remember) when thy Lord brought forth from the Children of Adam, from their reins, their seed, and made them testify of themselves, (saying) Am I not your Lord ? They said Yea, verily. We testify. (That was) lest ye should say at the Day of Resurrection Lo! of this we were unaware;
Thus everyone has already witnessed GOD before he was born. Now ofcourse you are not responsible for your father BUT YOUR SOUL MAY HAVE BEEN PART OR RATHER WAS CONTAINED WITHIN THE INFINITE BUNDLE OF SOULS THAT WAS THERE IN YOUR FATHER/MOTHER AND SEPARATED AT BIRTH. Infact i believe a soul to be an infinte bundle of waves upon waves and this can split into two infinite bundles coming from the same source i.e. GOD. Hence we all were one unit of creation and now seprated. Moreover if you didnt commit any original sin why are you here? You would then probably be an angel or in paradise where there are no wars, droughts, diseases, disasters, etc. Also you claiming that children are innocent is not true. A child does have an inherent sin nature WHICH CAN BE OBSERVED. When you raise a child you never teach him to cheat and lie but it automatically tends towards doing these things. So original sin is very reasonable and observable too. GOD Bless! -
Peace Arnoldyasin,
You stated
children and people who remember past lives only tap into other people's memories that are left in the Quantum field
This can also be experienced in art - music in particular. When one is expressing from the soul, he/she has tapped into the field that all genuine artists tap into, often resulting in a nostalgiac melody that sounds as if we've heard it before.
This is a bit off-track, but what do you make of deja-vu? Would you consider it also tapping into the quantum field of timeless info?
Peace,
Tay -
Hello jonny,
Now ofcourse you are not responsible for your father BUT YOUR SOUL MAY HAVE BEEN PART OR RATHER WAS CONTAINED WITHIN THE INFINITE BUNDLE OF SOULS THAT WAS THERE IN YOUR FATHER/MOTHER AND SEPARATED AT BIRTH.
This is still the concept of "Original Sin".
Moreover if you didnt commit any original sin why are you here?
To explore LIFE and the Infinite Possibility of Existence.
Also you claiming that children are innocent is not true.
They are indeed innocent Jonny. Make no mistake on that.
When you raise a child you never teach him to cheat and lie but it automatically tends towards doing these things.
No child comes out of the womb and steals his or her dad's gold watch! Children don't have the concept of ownership at birth. These concepts are learned behaviour.
Regards,
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Peace Arnoldyasin,
You stated
children and people who remember past lives only tap into other people's memories that are left in the Quantum field
This can also be experienced in art - music in particular. When one is expressing from the soul, he/she has tapped into the field that all genuine artists tap into, often resulting in a nostalgiac melody that sounds as if we've heard it before.
This is a bit off-track, but what do you make of deja-vu? Would you consider it also tapping into the quantum field of timeless info?
Peace,
TaySalaam,
Yes, that could be possible, we're only on the edge of understanding this all, and these are exactly the things that are coming out these studies, so yes, highly possible. But you understand now what i try to tell? It is not reincarnation, it is tapping into other peoples memories, alive or dead.
This explains why some people 'remember' past lives.And the new scientifical theories that are talking about the afterlife(the scientists don't want to admit this, but that is their problem), coincide perfectly witht the Quran. So you will be created, but not into someone elses body or spirit, not into a other life, but you in a new creation, that is effected by this life now, that life will be effected by your actions and thinking now. Exactly like in the Quran and other Scriptures. So yes, a sort of karma, and yes a sort of reincarnation, but not the popular version, certainly not.
I would like to discuss more on this, but i only had 1 reaction on my topic.......
Peace
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Peace arnold
this understanding of reincarnation is very interesting. actually when i say now that i believe in reincarnation, first of all it could never be a certainty. But i already thought of this it's mustn't be the reincarnation here on this earth, but i'm sure i existed before, and i will still exist after this coming death - which is just the passing of a gate - position actually in accordance with quran.
So actually it should rather be called rebirth (of the soul) in opposition to reincarnation (coming back to flesh). Note that reincarnation would then just be one possibility of rebirth.
your other thread is of great interest, but i just don't find the time even to read and understand it fully
lk
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Salaam,
This is o such great importants, because finally we can take out the resurrection out of the myth section, and fill it in with our human logic. That's the beauty. And it coincides impressevily with the Quran. I will Godwilling write a new topic, trying to make it more simplified then in this topic.
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Hello TAJ,
Hi Lote,
In the story of Adam's two sons, from where did Habeel learn to kill his brother Qabeel?I think both brothers lived quite happily farming and tilling the land. Then something happened to Habeel. God rejected his offering and accepted Qabeels and Habeel was jelous. He could not deal with God's rejection. What does that tell us?
How we deal with our experiences in life determines how we behave towards others. Habeel did not born with an Evil Heart. It was how he dealt with his experiences in life that determined how he reacted to being rejected. Good tortured by itself can become Evil.
But here what others made of that story
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abel
But lets look at in the terms of reincarnation theory. For those who say reincarnation is about going through all life experiences...Did Habeel choose to be born to exeperience murdering someone and did Qabeel born to experience being murdered? If so then Habeel and Qabeel must have consulted each other before they were born agreeing to murder and to be murdered? What about the thousands of Victims of Hiroshima? - did they all consult each other before they are born so that they can all experience what it is like to be vaporised in a atomic explosions? Can you see where it is leading?
Life as an EXPLORATION of the infinite possibility of Existence does not have these kinds of problem. In this scenario you are born to Explore Existence in the Infinity that is God...so that you may know God and in knowing you can become identical with it...to know something fully you have to become identical with it...to merge yourself in the ONE SELF...THE ONE CONSCIOUNESS...THE ONE REALITY...then there is no separation...there is no longing to be reunited no sadness...but blisss, joy and happiness....
Regards,
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Hi Lote,
I do believe that we are born innocent and my question was about the sins that humans commit later on. I understood from your earlier post that such things are learned and not from our nature.. that is why I asked the question of Qabeel and Habeel...
I think both brothers lived quite happily farming and tilling the land. Then something happened to Habeel. God rejected his offering and accepted Qabeels and Habeel was jelous. He could not deal with God's rejection. What does that tell us?
Many things!How we deal with our experiences in life determines how we behave towards others. Habeel did not born with an Evil Heart. It was how he dealt with his experiences in life that determined how he reacted to being rejected. Good tortured by itself can become Evil.
Dealing with others is part of the experience.
Life as an EXPLORATION of the infinite possibility of Existence does not have these kinds of problem. In this scenario you are born to Explore Existence in the Infinity that is God...so that you may know God and in knowing you can become identical with it...to know something fully you have to become identical with it...to merge yourself in the ONE SELF...THE ONE CONSCIOUNESS...THE ONE REALITY...then there is no separation...there is no longing to be reunited no sadness...but blisss, joy and happiness....
That is sufi stuff, Lote. "To be identical with it"... Isn't that what we call in Arabic Momaahatt?
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Salam All,
That is an Ayah that I would like to see your understanding about
(42
translation by Yusuf Ali
It is God that takes the souls (of men) at death; and those that die not (He takes) during their sleep those on whom He has passed the decree of death, He keeps back (from returning to life), but the rest He sends (to their bodies) for a term appointed verily in this are Signs for those who reflect.
The word soul in the translation seems to be wrong. The correct word should be awareness, which God takes away either in one's sleep or deathbed.
During sleep one is deprived of his awareness but still living. If God decides to terminate his vitality on top of his awareness, he takes it away; so the person cannot wake up to awareness from sleep.
Death is termination of awareness and vitality.
There is no such thing as an immortal soul in man. Only God is immortal. The word soul used in the Quran means only one thing revelation.
Peace,
Hasan Ak?ay -
Peace Arnold,
It seems we see eye to eye. I concur with your thoughts. Just to clarify, I do not endorse reincarnation. However, I am open to the possibility, seeing as how I've yet to distinguish whether or not we are actually individuals or just one big glob of "God-ness".
You stated
But you understand now what i try to tell? It is not reincarnation, it is tapping into other peoples memories, alive or dead.
This explains why some people 'remember' past lives.I understand, and I agree. However, the logistics of this understanding I think are still beyond even the quantum level. I've yet to hear an explanation of how a thought transmits into this field, and whether or not all thoughts get there, or just the impressive ones, and what else comprises this field.
It's sketchy, but makes sense nonetheless.
So you will be created, but not into someone elses body or spirit, not into a other life, but you in a new creation, that is effected by this life now, that life will be effected by your actions and thinking now. Exactly like in the Quran and other Scriptures. So yes, a sort of karma, and yes a sort of reincarnation, but not the popular version, certainly not.
Agreed. It's an evolution, not a revolution wink
I would like to discuss more on this, but i only had 1 reaction on my topic
Sorry, I caught it when I only had a few moments to read and the mass of text scared me away. I'll have another crack at it and meet you there.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace to All
This is a comment to the public and not a debate regarding reincarnation. I sincerely apologise in advance for its length as well if you found a bit harsh in my comments I did my best to keep it down indeed. At the end of the day no hard feelings and my respect is for all, I will address Taj last comment to me as I go but the comment is for all
neither me and i'm reading it for over 25 years in its original language lol , it must be big quran secret indeed
I have been reading Al Quran for as long as you have too, and up till this moment I would still find things in it that would stop me in my tracks! I am sure that must have happened to you too.
Peace Taj
Alhamdulellah that the Quran took the interest of both of us, I believe it is our greatest guidance until we die.
I?m not positive what you meant by ?Stop you in your track?, I mean, is it a negative or positive thing?, sorry mate, I can?t say if it happens to me or not until I understand what you meant by it.
The way Al Quran to me is that it is full of secrets that are not revealed unless the reader is at a certain level of awareness, understanding and responsibility of how to handle the 3ilm* that is about to be revealed to him/her as such revelation is because either he or she was painstakingly, earnestly looking for answers or because Allah has decided to reveal that 3ilm to this particular person for a particular reason, a reason that could be unknown yet to that person! I am not saying that I have reached such level but because of the glimpse I would be sometimes given while reading, I feel maybe if I reach such level then the 3ilm that will be revealed to me will be more. And there is no limit to that 3ilm...the word 3ilm in the following ayah is in mu6laq (endless/limitless) grammer form 3ilma
(114
20114 High above all is Allah, the King, the Truth! Be not in haste with the Qur'an before its revelation to thee is completed, but say, "O my Lord! advance me in knowledge."I agree with the above mate.
*The word '3ilm' is translated as Knowledge. I don't know of any English word that can match 3ilm as it is not just knowlege or information. It is a much higher/bigger thing, something that is given as a gift and requires giving... It is something that is more like Wa7ey Wahey. When somebody teaches you something some knowledge or information or study... You will always owe that one person, be in debt to him/her (which is fine) and you may repay that person in the form of money even, unlike the 3ilm. It sets you free but requires that you do much more than just know. In the case of 3ilm, you have to give/spread that 3ilm to the world, in the very right way... and so you will be in great debt too in a much higher scale if you fail to do that, so 3ilm is something that one should be very careful with...and that is why it is given to certain people..
Fine mate, I agree again.
but let's think basics for a moment, a baby is born knowing absolutely nothing, then lived till 60 years old, during these 60 years, that person learnt a lot, let's assume that person was Einstein for argument sake, then when he died, his very knowledgeable soul started again from square one as another baby who knows nothing, very laughable indeed, and sure i can see the chain of knowledge in it lol lol
If Einstein was to be reincarnated, he will be reincarnated in a whole new life with completely different challenges depending on how he did in his previous one, and God only knows how he did then, such calculations is Allah's.
I?m not sure mate what you are trying to say here
Is it
- Yes, reincarnation exists by the will of Allah
- No, it does not by the will of Allah
- It is possible by the will of Allah
?
Kyle almost read my mind here
I believe the verses being used to reject it can be read as the person wanting to go back to the life they just left, but the answer is no, they will be going to a new life where they will be repaid just what they earned. There are many lessons of life to learn.Mate, the problem here that reincarnation means that the soul comes again in a different person in this very life, not in a new life in another place, am I right mate? Here is something from the web
The concept of reincarnation seems to offer one of the most attractive explanations of man?s origin and destiny. There is an increasing interest in this topic today, sustained especially by books, magazines, TV broadcasts, movies and conferences. Most of them are related to the world of esoterical wisdom and occult phenomena. Reincarnation is a hot topic also on the Internet, as you may have already noticed. Not only adherents of Eastern religions or New Age spirituality accept it currently, but also many who don?t share such esoteric interests and convictions.
Reincarnation seems to give hope for continuing one?s existence in further lives and thus having a better chance to attain liberation. This is a source of great comfort, especially for those who seek liberation on the exclusive basis of their inner resources. On the other hand, reincarnation is a way of rejecting the Christian teaching of the soul?s final judgment by a holy God, with the possible result of being eternally condemned to suffer in hell. Another major reason for accepting reincarnation by so many people today is the fact that it allegedly explains the differences that exist between people. Some are healthy, others are tormented their whole life by physical handicaps. Some are rich, others at the brink of starvation. Some have success without being religious; others are constant losers, despite their religious dedication. Eastern religions explain these differences as a result of previous lives, good or bad, which bear their fruits into the present one through the action of karma. Therefore reincarnation seems to be a perfect way of punishing or rewarding one?s deeds, without the need of accepting a personal God as Ultimate Reality.
Many people who accept reincarnation in the West today claim that it can be scientifically proven. They usually ground their belief on so-called past life recall experiences, which represent the ability of certain persons to recall facts of alleged previous lives. There are two categories of this phenomenon. One is observed under hypnosis, while regressing certain persons beyond the date of birth. The other is produced by some children who spontaneously remember a previous life identity, amazing their neighbours with specific details that match with the life of a deceased person. Could these experiences really be proofs for reincarnation?
See the soul must come back in another person in this life not in another life, therefore those who try to mix it with the resurrection are blowing a punctured balloon because of the followings
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The soul don?t come back in this life but in the hereafter (Resurrection)
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The soul don?t come back to another person but to the same person (Resurrection)
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The whole earth in the hereafter will disappear and will be replaced by another earth, i.e. totally different planet
One day the earth will be changed to a different earth, and so will be the heavens, and (men) will be marshalled forth, before Allah, the One, the Irresistible
(4
Therefore, reincarnation advocates should stop sucking at the resurrection because they absolutely have no point to say reincarnation = resurrection, I guess they just trying hard to make it sound more comfortable, I call this make their feelings like They Feel Good, but I know I wouldn?t do that
I guess they have been influenced by books, magazines, TV broadcasts, movies and conferences, never a religious book to use to support this flawed concept, this flawed concept was inspired in our minds by Satan to corrupt us and make us sway from the clear truth told to us in the Quran, the truth according to the Quran that there is no such thing, a few members here posted compelling verses that clearly deny it and yet some still insist to follow books, magazines, TV broadcasts, movies, conferences and the chat chat on forums.
This concept is nothing but Satan spoiling our attachment to this low life, ?Al Hayatu Al Donya?. From the above we read that reincarnation is a source of great comfort, while the Quran told us
Those who believe and whose hearts are set at rest by the remembrance of Allah; now surely by Allah's remembrance are the hearts set at rest.
(2
-> See, ? now surely by Allah's remembrance are the hearts set at rest.?, not by this bloody flawed satanic concept called reincarnation which clearly is denied by the Quran as we will see again later. You can see from the info above how that satanic concept denies God.
My point here is, instead of seeking comfort in the remembrance of Allah through His Quran, humans are seeking comfort from books, magazines, TV broadcasts, movies and conferences and sure the forums chat chat, THIS IS SHIRK mate, no one can deny it, especially those who are challenging God in a very important and serious subject which is life, death and judgment, in a way they escaping from that reality and just want to live on earth as long as possible, another sign of satanic corruption.
I may add that at a particular point, that person (Einestien in your example) would have to realize that his present life explains his previous one, and even his future one depending on his actions in the present one..This realization makes the present life easier to live and will push us to do much better, if not to go straight to Heaven, at least for the hope of having a better future life!
But again bro, this never happened neither Einstein suggested that it happened to him.
Forget Einstein for a moment man, he is dead and we can?t ask him neither we can track the other human where Einstein?s soul is residing now (if it is his soul not another one before him), let?s think of you and me, we are alive, have your soul existed in another life on earth before this life on earth?
For me to answer the same question
A firm NO, because my soul never suggested to me that this is the case neither I remembered/learnt anything from any previous lives, I was born a baby knowing nothing indeed, I guess it is your case also and every human on earth as well, for example how reincarnation fits in the following verse by Allah
He it is Who created you from dust, then from a small lifegerm, then from a clot, then He brings you forth as a child, then that you may attain your maturity, then that you may be old-- and of you there are some who are caused to die before-- and that you may reach an appointed term, and that you may understand.
(67)
-> Clearly we need not reincarnation to reach maturity, we only need 40 years as stated in another verse.
And when Allah said the following to the prophet and us, how come Allah never mentioned reincarnation between death and resurrection?
30- Surely you shall die and they (too) shall surely die.
31- Then surely on the day of resurrection you will contend one with another before. your Lord.
(30)
(31)The common knowledge for all humans that every soul dies once, the believers know that they will be resurrected, and the unbelievers know the won?t, the Quran told us about this fact by the God rejectors
35- There is nothing beyond our first death, and we shall not be raised again
(35)
Even the unbelievers know that there is no reincarnation as Allah told us above, this is because there was never a compelling evidence that proves it other than books, magazines, TV broadcasts, movies and conferences.
Therefore the common knowledge for humans is we die once, this is in fact not entirely true, as Allah told us that the law is, we die twice and we live twice
How do you deny Allah and you were dead and He gave you life? Again He will cause you to die and again bring you to life, then you shall be brought back to Him.
(2
-> The sequence is clear
- We were dead1
- We have been given life1
- We will be caused to die again, dead2
- We will be brought back to life again, life2
- And finally, we will brought back to Him for judgment
There was no mention of reincarnation at all according to the reincarnation definition, even in the first metaphorical death when we never existed then we were given life1, and because the never existence and existence are two different worlds, it can?t be reincarnation, the second death and the second resurrection can?t be reincarnation either, because when being brought back to life for the second time there will be no more chances to improve neither we will be brought back in the same world.
This logical fact of two deaths and two lives will be conceded by the very people who denied it while deceiving themselves by thinking that it is a matter of only one life and only one death
They shall say Our Lord! twice didst Thou make us subject to death, and twice hast Thou given us life, so we do confess our faults; is there then a way to get out?
(11)
But there is no way out
Their wish will be to get out of the Fire, but never will they get out therefrom their penalty will be one that endures.
(37)
Or there is a way out?
As to those who are rebellious and wicked, their abode will be the Fire every time they wish to get away therefrom, they will be forced thereinto, and it will be said to them "Taste ye the Penalty of the Fire, the which ye were wont to reject as false."
(20)
-> See, there will be a cat a mouse game in hell, they will be allowed to make an escape plan, you know something like the Great Escape, possibly by tunnelling through hell, they will think that they are succeeding then game over back again to Hell, this is humiliating bro?every time they wish to get away therefrom, they will be forced thereinto, and it will be said to them ?Taste ye the Penalty of the Fire, the which ye were wont to reject as false.??
The problem for the ones who call themselves Muslims then voted yes for the possibility of this non sense called reincarnation, that they think it is done by the will of Allah, ignoring that He never told us as such and all He told that we were dead then given life then caused to die then resurrected then brought back to Him, this in effect means saying or attributing things to Allah that He never said about Himself, and this is a great sin indeed
(Such) as dispute about the Signs of Allah, without any authority that hath reached them, grievous and odious (is such conduct) in the sight of Allah and of the Believers. Thus doth Allah, seal up every heart - of arrogant and obstinate Transgressors."
(35)
-> Now, life and death are signs of Allah, and those who dispute what He said about it in the Quran must be included in the above verse, and their action is really bad in the sight of Allah ? grievous and odious (is such conduct) in the sight of Allah?, you can also see that the true believers will be upset as well from those people ? and of the Believers.?
Life and death are signs of Allah because they were created by Allah
He Who created Death and Life, that He may try which of you is best in deed and He is the Exalted in Might, Oft-Forgiving;-
(2)
-> We can see that the main purpose of creating life and death is ? He may try which of you is best in deed?, now, trying to fit reincarnation in here, we end up with very serious questions
-
If it is all about trial, how it works if a soul was good then came back into a murderer?
-
How the souls are distributed equally on the ever increasing numbers of humans so the trial is fair?, I mean it will not be fair that a soul takes 100 chances and another takes 5.
-
Starting from the beginning, was a specific number of souls are somewhere in a warehouse and as humans number increase, the souls are inserted into it?, but when that insertion stops and just reincarnation starts?
Man, if I keep thinking, I will come up with many of these silly questions, the reason I say silly because it will also be silly to waste time and find answers in the books, magazines, TV broadcasts, movies and conferences and sure the forums chat chat and leave a divine book with all the answers regarding life and death in kit, this book is called the Quran, again this is CLEAR CUT SHIRK
The sequence of death1 -> life1 -> death2 -> life2 -> judgment was repeated many times in the Quran, here is another example
16 It was We Who created man, and We know what dark suggestions his soul makes to him for We are nearer to him than (his) jugular vein.
17 Behold, two (guardian angels) appointed to learn (his doings) learn (and noted them), one sitting on the right and one on the left.
18 Not a word does he utter but there is a sentinel by him, ready (to note it).
19 And the stupor of death will bring Truth (before his eyes) "This was the thing which thou wast trying to escape!"
20 And the Trumpet shall be blown that will be the Day whereof Warning (had been given).
21 And there will come forth every soul with each will be an (angel) to drive, and an (angel) to bear witness.
(16)
(17)
(1
(19)
(20)
(21)-> Verse 5016, death1 to life1
-> Verses 5017-18, life1 being tested
-> Verse 5019, life1-> death2
-> Verse 5020, death2 .> life2 (resurrection)
-> Verse 5021, account and judgmentAgain no mention to reincarnation
Another verse with an important note, is below
?One day He will gather them together (It will be) as if they had tarried but an hour of a day they will recognise each other assuredly those will be lost who denied the meeting with Allah and refused to receive true guidance?
(45)
-> The above verse is talking about what will happen when we are resurrected (life2)
- We will think that we only lasted an hour of a day
- We will recognise each other
Now, if the souls will be put back to its bodies as the Quran told us when we will be resurrected for judgment, how the same soul will go in many bodies? And how we will recognise each other if many persons have the same soul?, what will happen also if a soul did bad with a human and did great with another human?, how the same soul will be a winner and a loser at the same time?? assuredly those will be lost who denied the meeting with Allah and refused to receive true guidance?, please pay much attention to ?refused to receive true guidance?, i.e. when we were told that this is what the Quran says as its clear Arabic language suggest, they still deny and associate non sense to Allah, those who say we believe in Allah and also declare their belief in reincarnation, are in effect Mushrikoon, because Allah never said that He created incarnation in His Quran, ?THE GUIDANCE MENTIONED?
Say "The Death from which ye flee will truly overtake you then will ye be sent back to the Knower of things secret and open and He will tell you (the truth of) the things that ye did!"
(
-> 628 is telling us about three sequences in the sequence of two lives, two deaths and judgment, in here we read only the sequence of death2-> life 2-> Judgment, ? The Death from which ye flee will truly overtake you then will ye be sent back to the Knower of things secret and open and He will tell you (the truth of) the things that ye did?, Allah never told us that after death we will be sent again in different bodies to have more chances, why He did that?, because death 2 brings GAME OVER
10- And spend out of what We have given you before death comes to one of you, so that he should say My Lord! why didst Thou not respite me to a near term, so that I should have given alms and been of the doers of good deeds?
11- And Allah does not respite a soul when its appointed term has come, and Allah is Aware of what you do.
(10)
(11)See above, GAME OVER
I.e., whatever was done good/bad for his/her own soul IS SEALED AGAINST THAT SOUL
Whoever works righteousness benefits his own soul; whoever works evil, it is against his own soul nor is thy Lord ever unjust (in the least) to His Servants.
(46)
-> See above, ?HIS OWN SOUL?, the verse does not incline the slightest that that own soul is shared between many bodies.
Will the souls know, when they die they will be sent back to another body for further chances?, and how about the good souls?, I guess they should not be sent back for further chances because they have passed the test, right?, well, Game Over means if you try to repent when dying, it won?t be accepted and if you die and you are a Kafir, there will be no chances given but a promise of the most grievous punishment, prepared especially for those bad guys, no more chances for sure
Of no effect is the repentance of those who continue to do evil, until death faces one of them, and he says, "Now have I repented indeed;" nor of those who die rejecting Faith for them have We prepared a punishment most grievous.
(1
And we know that there is no change in Allah words, Allah has given us a perfect example of a very bad guy, called ?Fir?on?, let?s see Allah words in action
?We took the Children of Israel across the sea Pharaoh and his hosts followed them in insolence and spite. At length, when overwhelmed with the flood, he said "I believe that there is no god except Him Whom the Children of Israel believe in I am of those who submit (to Allah in Islam)."
(90)
-> See above, Fir?on repented at the moment of death ? when overwhelmed with the flood, he said "I believe that there is no god except Him Whom the Children of Israel believe in I am of those who submit (to Allah in Islam).?, Fir?on declared his Islam at the moment of truth ?death?, but was it accepted?
According to 418, his repentance will never be accepted because it happened at the moment of death and he will only get the bad news at that time
?(It was said to him) "Ah now!- But a little while before, wast thou in rebellion!- and thou didst mischief (and violence)!?
(91)
45 Then Allah saved him from (every) ill that they plotted (against him), but the burnt of the Penalty encompassed on all sides the People of Pharaoh.
46 In front of the Fire will they be brought, morning and evening And (the sentence will be) on the Day that Judgment will be established ?Cast ye the People of Pharaoh into the severest Penalty!?
(45)
(46)-> Not just they won?t be given more chances to fix their flaws but will be forced to have the worst of nightmares twice a day and for every day until the judgment day ? In front of the Fire will they be brought, morning and evening And (the sentence will be) on the Day that Judgment will be established?, not only Fir?on alone, but all the bad guys who followed him ?Cast ye the People of Pharaoh into the severest Penalty!?, why all these souls were not given another chances then?, does Allah discriminate between us regarding reincarnation?, I don?t think so because reincarnation simply does not exist, it does not exist because it is flawed and satanic, let?s assume that it exists and put Fir?on to the test of reincarnation
We want to see how reincarnation actually works in the case of a real person. If we take the case of Fir?on, the results are shocking, there is no doubt that all reincarnation advocates agree that many lives are needed for consuming his debt. Fir?on died thousands of years ago and had to reincarnate as a child in order to carry the tough consequences of his very bad deeds.
The person of Fir?on ceased to exist at the moment of his physical death (When He drowned as Allah told us), only the impersonal self will reincarnate, accompanied by its karma balance, however, there is no continuity between the person of Fir?on and that of the anyone who has to carry the hardships imposed by Fir?on karma, the newborn human doesn?t know that he has to work out Fir?on?s karma, other millions of reincarnations will succeed with the same horrible destiny. The most disgusting fact is that the person of Fir?on, the only one who should have endured at physical and psychical level the results of his bad deeds, is dead at his physical death and Allah reserved his dead body for us to see, while other persons totally unaware of this situation and innocent, have to work out his bad karma.
As a result of the hardships that have to be endured by the new incarnations of Fir?on, it is almost certain that they will react with rebellion instead of submitting to their destiny, Therefore a growing karmic debt will be accumulated over the chain, each new reincarnation of Fir?on becomes a source of newly acquired karma, initiating a new chain of individuals who have to pay the consequences. The same must happened in the case of Fir?on himself.
Whoever he was in a previous life, he made his karma a lot worse during the years of his rule. Therefore, instead of solving the puzzle of global justice, the problem worsened. We started with a single individual such as Fir?on or whoever was before him, we reach a huge number of humans who pay his karma and accumulate a new one, this is just one case of human history recorded in the Quran of a very bad guy. any attempt to imagine what happens at a larger human scale would reveal a disaster that is impossible to ever be solved, but I?m sure all reincarnation advocates ignored this simple fact.
As a result reincarnation cannot provide any kind of justice and sure can?t solve the problem of evil but only magnify it, leaving the original evil unpunished, if reincarnation were true, Fir?on will never be punished for his deeds because he ceased to exist and we can see his dead body in the Egyptian museum, therefore no person or circumstance of life could truly punish him, the fact of the matter that people are far from considering themselves puppets paying the balance of someone?s else karma because this cannot be a solution for justice, but only a kind of eternal circus.
In conclusion, the concept of reincarnation stands in contradiction with logic, justice, morals and even common sensem, looking beyond the comfort it provides to this life by promising further lives in which perfection may be attained, belief in reincarnation cannot bring any beneficial result, but only rebellion and despair in facing a must fate. Why those Muslims accept it as a belief then?, I understand why non Muslims accept it, but it is shocking to see Muslims voting for it while Allah clearly explained life and death in His last message called ?Quran? which they uphold. Very strange indeed. It is strange because reincarnation will make Allah helpless (Allah forbids) and just a mere spectator of a human tragedy.
Believing in reincarnation may affect our understanding of morality and motivation for moral living. An extreme application of reincarnationist may lead to accepting crimes, theft, lying and other such crimes, because those crimes could be considered nothing else but normal debts to be paid by their unaware victims, accumulated by others in their previous lives.
Reincarnation in its essence MUST BE a religious belief but believing in something that Allah never told us about and yet it suppose to be the work of ONLY Him because He is the one who created life and death from the first place (a clear cut case of Shirk). For those Muslims, let me remind you with the last three events in the sequence of our existence as told to us by the All Just, All Knowledgeable Allah
19- ?And the stupor of death will bring Truth (before his eyes) ?This was the thing which thou wast trying to escape!??
20- ?And the Trumpet shall be blown that will be the Day whereof Warning (had been given).?21- ?And there will come forth every soul with each will be an (angel) to drive, and an (angel) to bear witness.?
22- ?(It will be said "Thou wast heedless of this; now have We removed thy veil, and sharp is thy sight this Day!"(19)
(20)
(21)
(22)-> Verse 19, DEATH_2
-> Verse 20, LIFE_2 (no incarnation is between the two events)
-> Verse 21, JUDGMENT DAY (one hell of a distressful day)May Allah save all the believers the horror of that day
Peace to All
-
Brother Ahmad Baghat Salaam
Good post. There are more proof that there is no reincarnation within Qur'an.
753 Do they just wait for the final fulfilment of the event? On the day the event is finally fulfilled, those who disregarded it before will say "The apostles of our Lord did indeed bring true (tidings). Have we no intercessors now to intercede on our behalf? Or could we be sent back? then should we behave differently from our behaviour in the past." In fact they will have lost their souls, and the things they invented will leave them in the lurch.
2399 Until when death overtakes one of them, he says Send me back, my Lord, send me back;
23100 Haply I may do good in that which I have left. By no means! it is a (mere) word that he speaks; and before them is a barrier until the day they are raised.