Contradictions and inconsistencies in the quran?
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We have seen that the trials can be good or bad, here is an example of two good trials
Your riches and your children may be but a trial but in the Presence of Allah, is the highest, Reward.
(15)
-> Most humans if not all think that having plenty of money and a lot of children are blessings, while I agree it can be but in this life everything is still a test, what I found amazing is, the Quran agrees with us that money and children are the most desirable to have in life, this may cause us to be blind and not see the trial within
Wealth and children are an ornament of the life of the world. But the good deeds which endure are better in thy Lord's sight for reward, and better in respect of hope.
(46)
-> But Allah still reminded us not to be blinded by wealth and children ?But the good deeds which endure are better in thy Lord's sight for reward, and better in respect of hope?
Our actions against each other is actually one of the main trials
And We have not sent before you any messengers but they most surely ate food and went about in the markets; and We have made some of you a trial for others; will you bear patiently? And your Lord is ever Seeing.
(20)
-> See, ? We have made some of you a trial for others?
Now the trial (good or bad) for those who do not hurt other humans and claim to be believers is also required to expose their hypocrisy if they are
2- Do men think that they will be left alone on saying, "We believe", and that they will not be tested?
3- We did test those before them, and Allah will certainly know those who are true from those who are false.
(2)
(3)-> A few important notes in the above verses
- ?Do men think that they will be left alone on saying, ?We believe?, and that they will not be tested?
- Humans are equal in that test ? We did test those before them?
- The test is required for ? and Allah will certainly know those who are true from those who are false?
Now, after a few tests by Allah the hypocrisy of those who claim to be believers will be exposed to everyone
11- There are among men some who serve Allah, as it were on the verge if good befalls them, they are, therewith, well content; but if a trial comes to them, they turn on their faces they lose both this world and the Hereafter that is loss for all to see!
(11)
-> Can you see that the loss is in this life and in the hereafter? ? they lose both this world and the Hereafter, and everyone will see it ?that is loss for all to see?
From all the above, it is clear what you have missed to come and suggest that 478-79 have a contradiction, let?s look at it again and clarify what you have missed
Enquirer said
I will start with the first contradiction; 478 and 479. Is evil from god or us? The literal translation is contradictory
78- Wherever you are, death will overtake you, though you are in lofty towers, and if a benefit comes to them, they say This is from Allah; and if a misfortune befalls them, they say This is from you. Say All is from Allah, but what is the matter with these people that they do not make approach to understanding what is told (them)?
79- Whatever benefit comes to you (O man!), it is from Allah, and whatever misfortune befalls you, it is from yourself, and We have sent you (O Prophet!), to mankind as a messenger; and Allah is sufficient as a witness.
(7
(79)Ahmed says
-> When the people at Mohammad time were hit by misfortune they accused Mohammad that he caused it?and if a misfortune befalls them, they say This is from you.?, while on the other hand if some good fortune falls on them they say ? and if a benefit comes to them, they say This is from Allah?, very strange indeed, it seems they adapted the feel good religion as many do in here, see how the lack the knowledge about Allah?, they think that Allah will only provide good fortune, as if this life is like fun, fun and more fun, they even lack the knowledge about why we are created in this life, they totally wrote off that this life is a test
-> Allah then told Mohammad to respond to them by ? Say All is from Allah?, of course it must be, didn?t He create everything including good and evil from the first place? Isn?t He testing us with good and evil?, Isn?t He who is causing the consequences according to our actions for the tests that happen to us every day?
-> Then Allah is telling us ? Whatever benefit comes to you (O man!), it is from Allah, and whatever misfortune befalls you, it is from yourself?, well, it is not like we worship Allah to get rewarded, this is a hypocrisy on its own merit, therefore if we get rewarded it has to be because He is generous, i.e. any benefit really happen to us is from Allah and don?t forget that this benefit can also be a trial at the same time during this life, this trial brings an action from us then a consequence from Allah to our actions during the trial . For the misfortune, the same divine law apply if you are bad guy, i.e. expect misfortune in this life as a punishment ?consequence? to your bad actions, this misfortune must be caused by Allah while it may look the same as the good fortune being from Allah, Allah will never cause it to any one unless that one is any of the following
- Anyone who does bad deeds (believer or not), the consequence must happen
- Anyone who claims to be a believer while Allah knows that he is not (a hypocrite), or even a good believer that Allah wants us to take him as an example of passing a trial
In I & 2 Allah is the ultimate Judge who will have the final decision and action and this still based on what we want to do in this life. i.e. we are a major player in it, Allah simply elaborated in 479 by telling us that the bad fortunes will be because of bad deeds we did. And for others it will be a mere test, all in all Allah is the ultimate planner and ultimate judge and yet our actions is still required in the picture
If you don?t agree on the above, it will be simply because of the veil on your eyes, but logically speaking you can spread you feathered wings and say loudly here is a contradiction in the Quran, the bottom line is simply you need to prove to us that it is a contradiction 100% and for you to do that you need to respond to all the Muslims who replied to your main post and demolish all their arguments
After we finish this matter we can move on to another contradiction, so please don?t get existed with this contradictions thingy, it is not like you are the one who discovered it, you have simply been hypnotised to do what others want you to do indirectly while you claim to have a very open mind and sort of a smart chap but with a hypnotised eyes, well I say forget it unless you wake up, try smacking yourself on the face and if you can?t do it I will be happy to do it for ya
Peace and take care
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Peace all
happy to see that we seem to get back to the subject, which is contradiction and inconsistencies in the quran with a question mark!
Most things i read don't really seem contradictory to me.
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If we get our record in the right/or left hand...well, the important message to me is that there is a record and that we will have to face it...
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To danish
When you cite the contradiction between 4.15 and 24.2 it may be because of translations.
4.15 treats of fahisha, 24.2 of zina - which are not the same...- The one about everything is from allah and the bad is from ourselves
Without going into the nafs-study - i'm not good enough for that and i know it - i see no contradiction there either
You're own bad action (or thoughts) bring the bad back to you - but it is according to the laws of god. So - it is from god and from you.
There is one "contradiction" i mentioned in another thread
The sura saying that an adulterer will inevitably end up with an idolater or adulter and vice versa - and the one saying that the believers and the righteous amoung their spouses will enter heaven. Which indicates that a believer could be married to an unbelievers also - which would be an idolater/adulterer or hypocrite...
Also Lot lost his wife because she was among the doomed...
As far as i remember it is stated nowhere that a believer inevitably ends up with another believer though - or may be the sura escaped me.IMO in these examples there is no clear contradiction, but no clear logic either - it's just life and many possible situations arise. The clear message of quran is not affected by these, at least not in my eyes.
salaams,
lk -
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peace Ab. Ab your analysis from the so-called clear quran took a lot of space. You are even more unclear than the literal quran. I will say that your analysis is also contradictory. If we can only do good or bad by allahs will,then humans have no free-will...This makes judgement and punishment ridiculous..How can god punish us for what he has willed us to do?... You people have not addressed the verses i highlighted,...which danish re-iterated? If your guidance-idol is so perfect please explain those verses i mentioned. The fact is that if you take all of the quran literally and dont use your intelligence to apply it,you will create contradictions in the text. You made my point even clearer with your post,because you deny free-will in effect,and like i said before that renders judgement day and punishment as meaningless. Thanks for that. In fact you rendered a load of verses contradictory...Every soul will be held in pledge for its deeds'?...Well not if they dont have free-will...Now every verse ordering us to pray,fast or do anything is null and void because we cant do it,as we have no free-will...Shouldnt allah just guide everybody if its only him that can guide?...This makes allah unjust in your book. Is god going to throw every unguided person in hell eternally,even though he had/has the power to guide them? Doesnt this also make him unjust?..Which contradicts the verses about allah being just or merciful... Im just happy that even though i do not respect the literal,unintelligent interpretations of a humans book(quran,by muhammed.) ,that i dont attribute injustice and dictatorship to god,but instead try to respect and follow the good that the god within guides me to do.
Peace all. ps;What makes you think you can slap me ab? Are you a tough guy over the net? You like,zenje and savage carrot seem very immature and defensive. D ..I hope you all wake up... -
peace savage-carrot,
Sc wrote
Now what is the inconsistency with the verses? That weighing and recording is not given in the same place FOR PEOPLE WHO PREFER TO READ ONE SURA INSTEAD OF THE BOOK.
What if I post 50% of my reply here, 25% in hadiths discussion section and 25% in the off topic section? how easy it would be for you to understand? And then also come up with the logic ?for people who prefer to read one post/reply instead of the whole forum?
And do you mean a sura cannot be understood unless we read the whole book?
- Anyone who kills a believer on purpose, his retribution is Hell, wherein he abides forever, GOD is angry with him, and condemns him, and has prepared for him a terrible retribution.
So To understand the above verse we also have to read the story of Solomon and the ant, the talking hoopoe? Or gog magog or the people of the cave etc? And Please tell me the secret to know about the preferences of other people?
Sc wrote
The only problem you have here is behind their back?
No, that is not the only problem?
- And We have indeed made the Qur'an EASY TO UNDERSTAND ?
sc-I am at a loss to explain why its so difficult unless there is some other motivation?
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=5426.0
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=5407.0
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=4659.0
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=1057.0
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=3684.0
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=5484.0By looking at the different topics of discussion at this forum, I am at loss to understand IN WHAT WAY IT?S SO EASY? You know about the preferences of others, so surely you must also be familiar with the motives .
God bless you,
Peace. -
Peace agentxxx. Yes i agree,how is the book clear when we cant even agree on the word islam,salat,hajj,right hand posession etc?... .If we were to be honest the book is only as good as the person reading it,this is why idol-frees interpretations are sometimes superb,while some of tanvermeds,mqurans,zenjes or abs etc.. are inhumane.
Its funny that savage carrot has to resort to questioning peoples motives when a difficult question comes along...I wonder if she has questioned her own motives?
peace all. ps;quran+logic/conscience=good applicable general guidelines.
Quran+no conscience/no logic=oppression and inhumaneness. ) -
Peace agent,
What if I post 50% of my reply here, 25% in hadiths discussion section and 25% in the off topic section? how easy it would be for you to understand? And then also come up with the logic ?for people who prefer to read one post/reply instead of the whole forum?
That's why one shouldn't jump to conclusions and claim it's so difficult and unclear, if one doesn't have all or most of the pieces of the 'puzzle' with them. Here is how I see it, some like to talk about the motivations of say, Mr. Darcy without reading the whole of Pride and Prejudice.
And do you mean a sura cannot be understood unless we read the whole book?
Of course a sura can be understood, and so can a simple verse. For one, the issue was why is it in different places and second the issue now is what about a person who only has time to read one sura, tho poor sod won't get the chance to understand! I say, take the time, read the whole book, put it together with reason and experience of life along with inspiration. The ones who judge and/or try to understand it hastily or with bias will not understand and things will be muddy. This holds true for most of what one does
So To understand the above verse we also have to read the story of Solomon and the ant, the talking hoopoe? Or gog magog or the people of the cave etc? And Please tell me the secret to know about the preferences of other people?
Yes, we read the whole book with the intent to learn. Once dubious motivations creep in along with arrogance like 'I know better than this! This is ancient history far below my intellectual level'...thats when things start messing up. It's the intent and will to learn, some things will not get clearer right away, it may take time, patience and sincerety.
By looking at the different topics of discussion at this forum, I am at loss to understand IN WHAT WAY IT?S SO EASY? You know about the preferences of others, so surely you must also be familiar with the motives
You obviously have not visited many forums. Try the matrix forums. It's not the book once again. Yes, I am familiar with the motives, sadly.
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You like,zenje and savage carrot seem very immature and defensive.
-X
while some of tanvermeds,mqurans,zenjes or abs etc.. are inhumane.
Amazing! They are inhumane now. Who's demonzing who?!?
Its funny that savage carrot has to resort to questioning peoples motives when a difficult question comes along...I wonder if she has questioned her own motives?
Wonder away! My motives are clear as the waters of the carribbean, before they started throwing beer bottles in that is. -* -*
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Peace savage carrot. I said some of their interpretations were inhumane,not them.
You have a very high opinion of your own motivations?...After you misquote me,i wonder if theres any substance to your claims of clear motivation? ) -
I said some of their interpretations were inhumane,not them.
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Quran+no conscience/no logic=oppression and inhumaneness
I suppose the conscience is not part of them or their interpretations then? Pray tell where does it come from?
After you misqoute me,
Right...pay more attention to what you write.
i wonder if theres any substance to your claim of clear motivation?
I'm a little teapot, short and stout. -* -*
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Peace savage carrot. The conscience is a part of everyone...but some choose to ignore it. Thus some interpretations come from the ego...Like some of your posts... You come across as very immature.
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The conscience is a part of everyone...but some choose to ignore it.
Oh right, thus the interpretations not based on 'conscience' are not really indicative of the person?
Thank you for all the personal comments, I am really feeling the 'love', 'openmindedness' and 'tolerance' from you -* -*
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You know, enquirer, if the book's not clear to you... doesn't mean it's not clear. ;D
If you interpret the verses to be inhumane, when I made no comment after posting the verses (no footnotes/no interpretations from me), then perhaps you need to look deep into yourself, and you might just find the answer.
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Peace savage carrot and zenje.
savage carrot;everybodies naturally state is to be 'moral',but we have the free-will to ignore this state..hence people in the world who are immoral in behaviour and thought. From what i read,some of the posters interpretations are immoral,as for whether they are immoral in their general overall behaviour, well i dont know enough about them...
As for you feeling the love...Well sometimes you have to use tough love,or be cruel to be kind... And you of all people should read some of your own sarcastic,irrelevant,sectarian posts.
Zenje;The verses are inhumane sometimes,when taken literally. (hence all the re-interpretations and modifications of verses on the forum,along with the symbolic interpretations.).And to be frank i think you are just hiding behind this book you consider to be perfect... Why dont you take responsibility for what you quote...or did allah say it?
As for clear book,well is the forum full of clear,coherent,consistent,verifiable interpretations of salat,god,hajj,masjid-ul-haram,hand-chopping,lashes,slave women,etc...?
Yes you can remind yourself of some great morals (especially if the quran is taken relatively,symbolically,mystically and with your OWN conscience/experiences/input.) with the quran,but as for it being all clear,literally speaking,well if people are honest,thats the last thing it is at times.
Peace all. Ps;i look within myself very frequently,because thats where the answers are...not just in a book -
Peace zenje. Dont you mean you believe its allahs words? And also take responsibility,because how do you know allah meant the words you quoted,as you quoted them in an english translation? If a sunni in defence of hadith quotes 'follow god and follow the messenger', he can say this is how allah meant it,and they are allahs words? Be real...its your opinion. ) Im sure you would say,dont attribute to allah what you dont really know?
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Peace enquirer,
Dont you mean you believe its allahs words?
I mean exactly what I said... I know it's the God's words.If a sunni in defence of hadith quotes 'follow god and follow the messenger', he can say this is how allah meant it,and they are allahs words?
No problem, he can believe what he wants, and I will not fight him for it.Be real...its your opinion.
Again, I just quoted some verse without explanation, you can take the original arabic, you can choose to read Yusuf Ali's translation, you can decide to translate it yourself and interpret it as you will, no problem. The words of quran are not mine, neither are they my "opinion". That's real.Im sure you would say,dont attribute to allah what you dont really know?
Yes I would. But if there's any confusion, please refer to my first sentence in this post.Thanks. )
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Peace zenje,bmbmm and all. Even if the quran is clear and gods words(which i dont necessarily agree with.) how come after 1400 years we still dont know half of it,and we are still discussing salat,hajj,slaves etc.. How come the 'quran only' community is not exactly at the forefront of world affairs or making great contributions to science and civilisation? How long has 'quran only' existed? Did all the previous generations get it wrong? Give me a few examples of success from the 'quran only' community? whats the use of gods words if nobody properly understands it,or no peace/success is achieved through it? Im sure many sincere people have tried to interpret the quran and still come up with little consensus....A book that we can all be divided with. )
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savage carrot;everybodies naturally state is to be 'moral',but we have the free-will to ignore this state..hence people in the world who are immoral in behaviour and thought. From what i read,some of the posters interpretations are immoral,as for whether they are immoral in their general overall behaviour, well i dont know enough about them...
If you can judge someone's interpretation by stating it's inhumane then by association you are judging the person's mindset/mind at the time as well, which is a part of them as people. There is no twisting away from this fact. It's obvious. This goes for all the choice statements about people that you have peppered your posts with.
As for you feeling the love...Well sometimes you have to use tough love,or be cruel to be kind... And you of all people should read some of your own sarcastic,irrelevant,sectarian posts.
Tough love? Cruel to be kind? Maybe you should change the labels you keep tacking in your posts to reflect that 'nuance'. Sarcasm is better than holier than thou preaching, and irrelevant are your personal comments. Sectarian? Whoo boy, you really caught me out here!
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Peace savage carrot. So we cant comment on behaviour we find immoral? Sarcasm is better than preaching is it?(ill disregard the holier than thou comment,as doesnt a lot of the 'quran only' methodology adopt a superiour attitude to sunni methodology or anyone else'?) Does your quran confirm that? Or is that from your own mind?