Contradictions and inconsistencies in the quran?
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It's times like these when I remember a poster called Lotetree. If you are reading Lote, you have an imposter here! He has no sense of humour either, at least you had some, however skewed it was. Come back and take your rightful place!
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Peace savage carrot and all. Yes,i like lote-tree... My sense of humour is used for appropriate situations sister. D I am afraid this is not one of them situations...yet. )
Are you implying your humour is any good? Well ill see if you can be humourus...all ive seen so far is sarcasm and pettiness...Dont they say sarcasm is the lowest form of wit? Take it easy. ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) -
My sense of humour is used for appropriate situations sister. I am afraid this is not one of them situations...yet.
Pity, I have yet to see any situations in which you have used any, or maybe you have and it fell flat?
Are you implying your humour is any good?
Unlike you I don't imply or allude.
Well ill see if you can be humourus...
From what I've seen of you, I'll only be 'humourus' if I agree with you. I don't want to hold out for that pat on the head you give to those lucky few!
all ive seen so far is sarcasm and pettiness...
One sees what they want, being somewhat of a relativist I'm sure you know this better than anyone.
Dont they say sarcasm is the lowest form of wit?
Do they? Don't believe all you hear about what 'they' say. It's bad for you.
Take it easy
I always do /
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Peace bro "AB",
Ive seen you using "A God" continuously in your above post to refer to the True GOD. I advise you not to do this. He is not a God. He is GOD, THE GOD, GOD of the heavens and the earth, Creator of me, you and everythiing that exists. So use the definite artcile "the" or all caps GOD. GOD Bless! -
Peace savage carrot. Before you go to sleep tonight i hope you reflect on your behaviour and find the truth within,if you want to... I will do that too...i will also decide for mine and your and everybodies peace whether its better not to respond to some of your posts...I mean is anything being achieved by this? A reasonable answer would be nice...
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Before you go to sleep tonight i hope you reflect on your behaviour and find the truth within,if you want to... I will do that too...i will also decide for mine and your and everybodies peace whether its better not to respond to some of your posts...I mean is anything being achieved by this? A reasonable answer would be nice...
Depends on what you call reasonable...respond or don't respond to me, I don't really mind either way. What I do care about is whether there is good substantial dialogue going on about 'perceived contradictions' in the quran. I have posted my comments on how the debate should be, refuted contradictions and discussed with some people on this thread as well. It's your 'peace' of mind and how you perceive things that might bother you so pleasant dreams
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Peace ab.
Salam mate
You are definately an amazingly individual..
Oh
Thank you
.And thats not a compliment...
Oh
Screw you
You said nothing in your post,
damn, I thought my two comments took a lot of space
which space first if you don?t? mind informing me?
and ducked and dodged
LOL
Now you know well that I?m a professional boxer, but you forgot to mention my punches
like your two comrades.
In my corner?
I guess the people on the forum that are awake will see the unanswered questions and non-sense you guys have posted and make their own minds up.
I guess that is the crowd watching the boxing match?
Well, can you please tell me the odds so far?
Wow man, you have created a whole boxing scene, now we need a nock out
Like a 'wise man' said; 'some people think they have a direct link with god,
and who is that wise man?, is it a random man? But can you prove that he is wise or he is also randomly wise?
I guess until you answer the above questions, it won?t be wise to follow that non existent wise man
but they have no link with humanity'.
again, we need proofs of that but first you need to tell us who is this wise man?
Is it you?
I give you permission to try to come to my country and do what you will,
now that was funny LOL, you gave me permission to come to your country, so you have connections in your country?, is Q Charles one of your connections?, and please don?t ask me what Q Charles means, I?m sure you know well
ok, I will tell them in the embassy that enquirer gave me permission to visit him, I hope this will make getting the visa much easier.
but you take the consequences as well...
of course, this is what I?m saying in my two comments, there is an action and a consequence and sure Allah is testing you using me and is testing me using you, LOL, therefore everyone of us will carry the consequences of their actions, remember we will be held hostages according to our actions, or did you forget that quick?, oh, sorry it seems I?m the one who forgot the veil on your eyes.
Its easy to be tough on the net little man.
strange, I found it much easier to be tough for real
Peace all...and you guys definately need some peace.
Salam, yes we need the peace in our sleep, please don?t wake us up with your repetitive rants and atheistic concepts that only leads to a secure corner in the hell fire and that is not going to be peaceful at all
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Peace bro "AB",
Ive seen you using "A God" continuously in your above post to refer to the True GOD. I advise you not to do this. He is not a God. He is GOD, THE GOD, GOD of the heavens and the earth, Creator of me, you and everythiing that exists. So use the definite artcile "the" or all caps GOD. GOD Bless!Thanks for your advice mate
but i was talking to an enemy of Allah and was using his language that is based on a man made god or a non existance of A GOD and when i use it in the context I never means the true God "Allah"
so please stop picking on these small things as Allah knows what i meant exactly
Salam
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Peace mate ;D ,
Thanks for your advice mate
but i was talking to an enemy of Allah and was using his language that is based on a man made god or a non existance of A GOD and when i use it in the context I never means the true God "Allah"
so please stop picking on these small things as Allah knows what i meant exactly
Salam
JK- Sorry for the misunderstanding. Actually these thoughts came into my mind "maybe bro AB means it in another way...hmmmmmm..concept of GOD very crucial and important hence must be clarified... Im sure he cannot be doing this deliberately..must be a language problem...(after my post was done).. oh maybe he wanted to show the false concept of a god from enquirers perpsective...damn post already done...maybe this is not true...so leave post for now and await reply...then apologize if necessary). Sorry bro. GOD Bless!
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Zenje; I am a very happy man my friend
Good for you! You keep saying it but... -\I see you avoided or couldnt answer the last two questions and resorted to immature attempts at humour.
Which ones?... If my god loves people or something?... you actually thought that warranted an answer? please. )
Your response to the question of whether people are insincere if they try but fail to get a consensus from the quran,which you answered yes they are insincere,shows the potential for idolisation of quran and inhumanity...
Are these new words that you learnt?... you use them like their new and totally out of context. Can you use the word 'inhumane ' in a sentence children?Which im glad the rest of the forum is now aware of... And i suggest you think about what role peoples happiness(even those from outside your superior/arbitrary group.) plays in your religious interpretations/dogmas.( justified from allah,of course. .)
There you go with your judgements again, man you have ego and a half... and that's not an attept at humor, since you have to look out for it and it seems to give you some trouble finding it.It's funny you mentioned that though, I was thinking the same thing just yesterday. I'm really glad these numerous posts from you and some others are bringing out the true colors in you. I have never pretended to be anything else. You on the other hand, started out with a nice and, dare I say it, tolerant position... but now?... Dr. Jekyll is gone for good, your hatred for quran and all those who follow it is blooming quite nicely. Why the pretense in the beginning, I wonder? Ah well, keep going my friend, maybe you'll reveal some more. I love it! ;D
Peace to those who follow the guidance.
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Peace brothers and sisters,
Look at these posts enquirer used to write at the beginning.
this is my first post after a year of reading at this site. i applaud the efforts of the people on this site and thier positive contribution to understanding our obligations.
Ah.. humble beginnings. '(I have been reading the dialogue on free-minds for about a year now. I too struggled with the understanding of salat,masjid al-haram,hajj etc. But after extensive patient research these topics are now much,much clearer. I feel very satisfied that several forum members have similiar conclusions even though we are from diverse backgrounds.
What a nice guy!Peace ahmedbaghat. I agree there are many acceptable and unacceptable behaviours in the quran. A basic principle is that the prohibited is what is not beneficial/healthy for mankind and the permitted is what is beneficial/healthy for mankind. (quran;7157).
What's this?.. enquirer agreeing with AB?!...about prohibitions?!...in quran?!Peace ahmedbaghat and idol-free. your understanding of the angels speech ,ahmedbaghat is one i agree with.
We need a fainting emoticon.I think the heading 'contradictions and inconsistencies' is perfect! ;D Maybe 'Exposed', would have been more fitting.
Good Night and Good Luck
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Peace
Hope this helps... I'm copying out the explanation from my trusty Qur'an (translated and explained by Muhammed Asad) Regarding 478 and 479...
There is no contradiction between this statement and the preceding statement that "all is from God". In the world view of the Qur'an, God is the ultimte source of all happening consequently, all good that comes to man and all evil that befalls him flows, in the last resort from God's will. However, not everything that man regards as evil fortune is really, in it's final effect, evil, - for it may well be that you hate a thing the while it is good for you, and it may well be that you love a thing while it is bad for you and God knows, whereas you do not know. (2216) Thus many an apparent evil may sometimes be no more than a trial and a God Willed means of spiritual growth through suffering, and need not necessarily be the result of a wrong choice or wrong deed on the part of the person thus afflicted. Itis therefore obvious that the evil, or evil fortune of which this verse speaks has a restricted connotation, in as much as it refers to evil in the moral sense of the word that is to say, to suffering resulting from the actions or the behaviour of the person concerned, and this in accordance with the natural law of cause and affect which God has decreed for all his creation, and which the Qur'an describes as the way of God (sunnat Allah) For all such suffering, man has only himself to blame, since "God does not wrong anyone by as much as an atom's weight" (440)
Hope that helps
Peace -
Peace 99percentcow (?)
Welcome to the forum. )Thanks )
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Peace all
I'd like to talk about 262 and 569 being 'in opposition' with 319 and 385, as enquirer mentioned.
Absolutely, these are not in opposition with each other. In fact, arranging them together is a very good idea.
Since enquirer failed to even bring forth the actual verses, I'll post the literal translation. Let's look at 262 and 385
That those who believed and those who repented/guided/Jews , and the Christians and the Sabians/converts , who believed with God and the Day the Last/Resurrection Day, and made/did correct/righteous deeds, so for them their reward (is) at their lord, and no fear/fright on them, and nor they be sad/grieving.
And who desires/wishes other than the Islam/submission/surrender (as) a religion, so (it) will never/not be accepted from him, and he (is) in the end from the losers.
Looking at 385, we can ask "What is considered Submission? What do I need to do to be a Submitter?"
And 262 clarifies that; to be a Submitter, one must
- Believe in God
- Believe in Resurrection Day
- Do righteous deeds
So the Christians, Jews, etc. who believe in God, Resurrection Day, and do righteous deeds, are indeed Submitters. The same goes for 319 and 569. It is that simple.
It's amazing how to one person, these two verses are 'in opposition with each other'; while to another person who is sincere to the Qur'an, one verse helps clarify the other.
Enquirer, I'd greatly appreciate you engaging in an actual discussion with me about this. I'd be very happy to do so. From what I've seen so far, you have claimed something, then when someone wanted to discuss your claim, you avoided it and insulted them. It seems you aren't here for discussion; but perhaps for other reasons. ???
God willing, you'll actually start discussing. After all, this is a forum.
Peace
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Peace all,
to bilal - why do you look at western societies and say that quran is the remede ? shouldn't one start in front of one"s door ? well; i guess this is my western self being touched...may be i got contaminated by this great discussion )
99percent - thanks for trying to come back to the subjet.
lk
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Peace mr zenje. The posts i wrote over a year ago reflect my understanding that some posters do indeed use the quran wisely,rationally and for human betterment...not taking it as an an idol,or an unverified book of dogma to refute people who do not subscribe to it literally...I still feel there are several members who are doing a great job,and some of those who are sometimes dogmatic still produce the occasional good post.(even ab etc.. ).) But there are some who seem to use the quran and allah as a crutch/justification for their own sectarian and egotistical desires,and in doing so contradict their own book...(see 62;5 my friend.) Ironically some of those people claim to have broke free of the shackles of hadith,only to run to the next shackle of the literal quran...
I agree i have had to take a more forthright stance on certain issues and posters...this is because i believe that some of you are making a mockery of the quran,humanity and civilisation. I dont hate any of you guys or the quran,but im sure im entitled to point out what i see as immoral interpretations?....
Mr zenje,i see that your definition of 'brothers and sisters' or 'nice guy' is purely on your arbitrary sectarian criteria...i also see that you and others have not refuted the verses i claimed were inconsistent when taken literally...I am glad that people of your intellectual incompetence have no real political power,and that western liberal democracy(although not perfect.) stops people of your mentality from propogating your extremist,illusional,inhumane,sectarian pipe dreams. What does it feel like to claim you have god on your side,yet be so irrelevent?
Peace all. -
Peace all,
to bilal - why do you look at western societies and say that quran is the remede ? shouldn't one start in front of one"s door ? well; i guess this is my western self being touched...may be i got contaminated by this great discussion )
Peace Elke and all,
Maybe it's me who have a bad image of the american society.
Violence, drugs, cult of money, excessive consummation of foods and soda, cult of body, suicide, etc...
I think that the solutions are in the quran.
the society can't reform herself if any persons don't take conscience of their responsability.
but we must not to take quran like idol but take the great idea in consultation with the experiences and reasoning power of anybody work to the peace.
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Peace mquran. Its contradictory because it first says everything is from god,...and then says that bad is from us. The only way this is resolved is if we are god. D ? idea
If you want to post the literal translation,feel free,but i wont waste my time spoon-feeding you verses. Im sure you know the verses (as do many others.),so you or anyone else quote whichever version of verses you want.If you take in any way,,,,Allah says that He does not guide the people of unjust.
The people who already have decided to find some points to disgrace the religion of Allah, then Allah will put them blind,,,they wont understand anything then...physically seeing and spiritually blind. And if one seeks guidance with humbleness then Allah guides him and helps him...
So the condition is your wish,,,you wish to be bad...Allah will curse you with blindness of as apposed to wisdom.
What can you expect from a person who does not want to learn but is asking and arguing just to do some satanic exploitaion? It will be certainly his fault.
And despite all,,,,if Allah decides about a person to put him in hell for no reason...even then it is his right....as we are his creation,,,our life is also his property,,,,But he will not put you in hell without reason....Because he is Absolute Just.
Even then if he puts you to hell,,,then what can you do?? Can you fight the Almighty? Can your rubbish abuses disgrace the Almighty, the Absolute and Eternal???
If you know the verses that Allah does not guide "Zalimoon" then you better find those verses which tell that why Allah does not guide such and such people....I hope you will find why he does not guide them..
If you fail to find then I will try to compile the list of verses.Regards.
VirtualEye.