Free Minds now Anti Qur'an forum.
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Some here seem to truly think/believe their interpretations to be 100% right and act around as if they are the spokepersons of Allah.. o
And as for some others, who do not believe Quran to be the word of God, so be it.........why should there be a compulsion?
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Peace pm,
Read zenje's post. I think thats what some people are irked by.
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Some here seem to truly think/believe their interpretations to be 100% right and act around as if they are the spokepersons of Allah..
Others come in at the 11th hour, read quicker that the Road runner and totally miss the point.
So far, those defending the divinity and infallibility of al-quraan ask for EVIDENCE. Evidence, as I know the word is alien to you, peaceful muslim is like when people ask 'where does the quran tell you to love everyone', they provide a verse supporting that thesis.
And as for some others, who do not believe Quran to be the word of God, so be it.........why should there be a compulsion?
If THIS is your interpretation of the actions of those defending al-quraan, you need to realise that some people take discussions in that spirit as discussions. They expect honest exchanges whereby people can get stimulated to higher understandings. If you think there's a compulsion, this shows you've not been reading carefully, as usual.
Do you expect us to just go 'ah, wonderful, you're right the quran is fallible even though you cant prove a single point'?
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Salaam Alleikum MQuran
Its nice to hear from you after long absense. I am not against free thinking or have any problems with individual opinion regarding Qur'an. I don't have any problem if they accept it or completely reject it. The replies posted to Prashant Kumar question was not according to what Qur'an is commanding us to do. They should have encouraged him to read the Qur'an and help him understanding the message instead of preaching their philospy.
What I said is correct according to my understanding of Qur'an? I don't have any desire to win a popularity contest. I will keep saying what is right according to my understanding of the message.
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Peace mr mquran. I will re-iterate my point that when you have some new or decent points to make,i will respond to you...Most of your questions i have answered on other threads. Its quite ironic you cant even be 'civil' to people who actually do believe in the quran like peaceful-muslim,elke,ichephren etc... I will clarify once again,i dont mind what you or anyone believes..i only mind when your or other peoples beliefs cause harm to yourself or others...
And as for my views on certain topics...Well i have posted my opinions many times on different threads...So just re-read them and then ask me if ive changed my mind,or to clarify myself...Is that ok? My opinions are just that...my opinions...I dont ask you to believe them...Verify things for yourself...
Peace all; ps;just posting verses to justify your own viewpoints doesnt always refute someone or make your view correct. Apple-pie used more details and verses than most on this forum,yet most disagreed with him,and i would say he was mistaken in his views....Some sunnis use loads of verses to justify the 'obligation' to follow the sunnah and 'physical' salat etc,are they correct then?... If your quranic evidence is valid and a refutation,then apple-pie and abu-hurairah(no1historical sunni narrator of hadiths.) are also correct in their views. -
Peace KGB,
I don't have any desire to win a popularity contest. I will keep saying what is right according to my understanding of the message.
From what I've read of your posts, they have been honest, not hiding behind false sentiment and/or slogans or trying to insinuate a hidden agenda. I wish more people would do that. -
Peace mr mquran. I will re-iterate my point that when you have some new or decent points to make,i will respond to you...
That's laughable. You only respond by slogans, never by substance because you're devoid of any.
Most of your questions i have answered on other threads. Its quite ironic you cant even be 'civil' to people who actually do believe in the quran like peaceful-muslim,elke,ichephren etc...
Firstly, lack of 'civilty' is a matter of opinion. I admit being brusque but not rude and I really don't mind people thinking otherwise.
Also, once again this shows your inadequate study of the book. I have never met peacefulmuslim, elke, ichepren. I don't know who they are or what agenda they carry. 'belief in the quran' is something one carries forward in the world, so I reserve judgement as to whom these people are. To me, it's all about al-quraan. If you speak against al-quraan and are a person with honesty and integrity, you will provide evidence. Otherwise, what are you but an empty vessel ?
I will clarify once again,i dont mind what you or anyone believes..i only mind when your or other peoples beliefs cause harm to yourself or others...
Define 'harmful'. Please show me where al-quraan enjoins 'harmful' beliefs (as per your comment in another post).
And as for my views on certain topics...Well i have posted my opinions many times on different threads...So just re-read them and then ask me if ive changed my mind,or to clarify myself...Is that ok? My opinions are just that...my opinions...I dont ask you to believe them...Verify things for yourself...
You have made allegations about al-quraan. I ask you for proof. If you have none, then say so. If you don't feel you need to provide any, then say so. You will be more respected for honesty than if you worm about not providing evidence.
Peace all; ps;just posting verses to justify your own viewpoints doesnt always refute someone or make your view correct. Apple-pie used more details and verses than most on this forum,yet most disagreed with him,and i would say he was mistaken in his views....Some sunnis use loads of verses to justify the 'obligation' to follow the sunnah and 'physical' salat etc,are they correct then?... If your quranic evidence is valid and a refutation,then apple-pie and abu-hurairah(no1historical sunni narrator of hadiths.) are also correct in their views.
Listen Lote-tree, oops I mean Enquirer. If you promise me as a decent human being that you will answer my questions in the contradictions thread , the 3 questions regarding your allegations about al-quraan, I will show you where the mistakes of Apple-Pie are. I just don't bother with Apple Pie at present because it's a waste of time, Apple Pie isn't someone who thinks, only pastes. Lastly, if you think Abu Hurairah is even worth mentioning, then I think you need another 25 years of 'on and off' study.
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Peace layth and all. Dont you think though,that experimenting with the 'real' meanings of the quranic verses has also caused untold harm and mischief on the earth...I mean so-called islamic governments,extremists,extreme sunnis and terrorist organisations are all 'experimenting' and trying to apply the qurans 'social laws'...are they not?
Did Abrahams 'natural' pondering and behaviour cause death,ignorance and misery?
Peace all. -
peace everybody,
i think certain people on this forum are being accused of baselessly attacking the quran. I think that is not true, no one (as far as i know) has anything against the quran. All they are saying is that the quran is not enough if we aren't following our conscience. I think those islamic terrorists are a good example of what they are saying. what you learn from the quran depends on what you want to learn.
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Peace layth and all. Dont you think though,that experimenting with the 'real' meanings of the quranic verses has also caused untold harm and mischief on the earth...I mean so-called islamic governments,extremists,extreme sunnis and terrorist organisations are all 'experimenting' and trying to apply the qurans 'social laws'...are they not?
Did Abrahams 'natural' pondering and behaviour cause death,ignorance and misery?
Peace all.Even now if nobody is able to identify the culprit then what can I say about it.
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Peace phoenix. Thank you for understanding my position,and clarifying that no-one is necessarily saying the quran is 'useless' or attacking it baselessley...
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Peace mquran. If you say that lack of 'civility' is a matter of opinion...And you dont bring undeniable proof from the quran,or verifications for this opinion of yours...then whats your problem with other peoples opinions?...
peace all. ps;if the quran helps you to be good and moral in life,thats really great, and im happy for you...But that doesnt mean everyone will agree,believe,or behave exactly as you do.... -
Salaam
Some here seem to truly think/believe their interpretations to be 100% right and act around as if they are the spokepersons of Allah..
And as for some others, who do not believe Quran to be the word of God, so be it.........why should there be a compulsion
?It is very difficult to respond to very general attacks on the Quran, however those that have problem with the Quran could site reason or examples then an intelligent debate could be had, otherwise it becomes a competetion for generalised mud slinging.
Thank you for understanding my position,and clarifying that no-one is necessarily saying the quran is 'useless' or attacking it baselessley...
From the above I can only assume that you have genuine bases for attacking the Quran so Ok lets have the bases of your attacks and then we can discuss their merits.
regards -
Salaam
Some here seem to truly think/believe their interpretations to be 100% right and act around as if they are the spokepersons of Allah..
And as for some others, who do not believe Quran to be the word of God, so be it.........why should there be a compulsion
?It is very difficult to respond to very general attacks on the Quran, however those that have problem with the Quran could site reason or examples then an intelligent debate could be had, otherwise it becomes a competetion for generalised mud slinging.
Thank you for understanding my position,and clarifying that no-one is necessarily saying the quran is 'useless' or attacking it baselessley...
From the above I can only assume that you have genuine bases for attacking the Quran so Ok lets have the bases of your attacks and then we can discuss their merits.
regardsThat is why I urge to have some abstract summery of beliefs, so that it can be easy to pay everyone in his coin.
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Peace,
VE says
so that it can be easy to pay everyone in his coin.
Why this urge in you VE ?
peace,
Why this urge not in you Beta97?
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Peace stilllearning. I think there is a difference between 'attack' and constructive criticism,is there not? There is a thread in the general section on 'contradictions in the quran'...if you want,read or post in that thread,then we can discuss...as long as the debate is civil/productive... Thank you.
Peace all. -
Enquirer Peace layth and all. Dont you think though,that experimenting with the 'real' meanings of the quranic verses has also caused untold harm and mischief on the earth
If by 'experimenting with real meanings', you mean what you generally do with al-quraan (i.e. pretend it has a contradiction and refuse to comment when its been answered), then yes. You are simply the secular version of Al-Muhajiroon. Same mentality, different camps. In 2003, Al-Muhajiroon quoted a verse about the ashaabul-kahf and used it to praise the 19 terrorists of 9/11. You do the same thing with your shallow, decontextualised analysis of the Quran.
I mean so-called islamic governments,extremists,extreme sunnis and terrorist organisations are all 'experimenting' and trying to apply the qurans 'social laws'...are they not?
If you think they are, then we can now know for a fact that you have been telling us porkies about your experience with the Quran. I challenge you to produce the verses they use for their 'social laws'. Just one.
Did Abrahams 'natural' pondering and behaviour cause death,ignorance and misery?
His didn't because HE was open-minded. You only think you are.