salvation while refusing prophethood of Mohammed possible?
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Peace Kestrel,
I appreciate your tone.
I cant believe what Tay says because I have no knowledge of angels.I cant hear them I cant see them or I cant even imagine them, so how can I verify that they are emotions.
First off, let me say that I, in no way, wish to force my understanding on anyone. The reason we are at this point in our dialogue is because you seemed to think my understanding was laughable.
Now, regarding your response, it doesn't hold water. Emotions are unseen. But can you deny that emotions exist? No. That's the bottom line. So if angels are emotions, then we can verify their existence every time we experience the emotion.
Things told in verses dont need verifying at all.
This speaks volumes. If nothing in the Qur'an needs verifying, then how do you know it is from God? Please show me the ayah that says we are to accept this info blindly.
As a matter of fact I must reject your claim acc.to verse 1736 because I can never verify angels are good emotions.
That is a choice, not a fact. Ask yourself this, if we're not meant to know what the angels are or how they operate, then why would Allah spend so much time mentioning them? Where is the guidance in hearing about an entity that can never be experienced or understood?
If your intentions are sincere, which I have no reason to doubt, then kindly explain these ayat
4130 But, behold, as for those who say, "Our Lord is Allah," and then remain steadfastly upright ? upon them descend angels, saying, "Fear not, and grieve not, but hear good news of the Paradise that you are promised.
812 God inspired the Angels "I am with you so keep firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who have rejected; so strike above the necks, and strike from them every one standing."
Peace,
Tay -
tay wrote
The question was how do good emotions submit to mankind.yes! i wonder if u could spare some time to explain emotions...thoughts...good emotions and bad emotions...good thoughts and bad thoughts...but its okay if u cant! -)
tay wrote
The submission is metaphorical.ahan!
tay wrote
When someone gives from the heart, for example, what follows is a feeling of serene peace. The feeling doesn't come until the action is taken.gives what? i mean how much giving is giving enough to experience that serenity?
tay wrote
Thus, the feeling is in submission to the person experiencing the feeling.i am sorry...i m really kinda dumb! -S which feeling therein is human and which feeling is emotion? when god said to the malaikatu to prostrate unto adam....were these emotions outside adam? were they a part of him? did they have free will to do as they determine? what is the meaning of a good emotion and a bad emotion submitting to adam? i mean by their submission (as u put it) to me does it mean i can call them as and when i want?
tay wrote
"All except Iblis". Iblis refused to submit, therefore, Iblis is the catalyst for negative energy, ie anger, jealousy, hatred, etc.'malaika' is plural so good emotions...plural...what is iblis...is it also a good emotion? if it is a bad emotion then since quran has adressed it as singular what is this singular bad emotion?
tay wrote
When you feel at peace with yourself, then you know you did the right thing. The feeling is a reminder.like?? i mean some people get a lot of peace by exacting revenge...in being spiteful and i am pretty much serious here...i have known such people...atleast at that time they are very much at peace....so in that case??
tay wrote
And the Qur'an tells us that the angels will "speak" to us when we remain on God's path4130 But, behold, as for those who say, "Our Lord is Allah," and then remain steadfastly upright upon them descend angels, saying, "Fear not, and grieve not, but hear good news of the Paradise that you are promised.
I've posted this ayah all over the forum, yet not one person has come forward saying they've heard these angels speaking. So what is this ayah talking about, if not something instilled within?
- And those who disbelieve will say Our Lord! Show us those who beguiled us of the jinn and humankind. We will place them underneath our feet that they may be among the nethermost.
####### yes i have wondered about 41 30 myself...but neither have i seen any of who disbelieve say that..4129..have u? however...the quran does speak of people who recieved tidings from angels...but perhaps u dont believe the quran unless u can verify angels till u see them with ur eyes..or in the very least someone tells u "yes i saw 1"...but i guess u would still not believe..u would want to see with ur own eyes...i am not being judgemental...i am pretty cynical about god itself..but if and when i finally kick it out i dont want to have any reasonings to oppose my action!
coming back to 4130 i do think it is talking either about either death or a specific event...refer to 21104!
17 40 What! has then your Lord preferred to give you sons, and (for Himself) taken daughters from among the angels? Most surely you utter a grievous saying.
does that mean god is talking about daughters from good emotions?
17 95 Say, "If there were settled, on earth, angels walking about in peace and quiet, We should certainly have sent them down from the heavens an angel for a messenger."
it means good thoughts settled in earth...walking about...and a good thought being a messenger to other good thoughts?
######### peace -)
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Peace thegod,
Before we get heavy, please note that my understandings are very far from complete and constantly under refinement, and thus any and all questions and comments can only help the understandings grow and become more refined.
You asked
i wonder if u could spare some time to explain emotions...thoughts...good emotions and bad emotions...good thoughts and bad thoughts
Let's have another look at what is said about angels
3125 Indeed, if you are patient and are righteous and they come and attack you, He will supply you with five thousand of the Angels battle trained.
Could it be that angels would actually descend upon the battlefield sporting plate mail armor and swords ready to fight?
No.
3126 And God did not give this except as good news to you, and so that your hearts may be assured with it. Victory is only from God, the Noble, the Wise.
So the angels are not entities ready to fight at a moment's notice, but they are probably best described as the emotion of determination/conviction.
Each good emotion, I would venture to say, is it's own /species/ of angel. They submit to the will of man. If man wills to act righteously, then the angels are obligated to follow by giving man the experience of their essence.
Conversely, Iblis' sole purpose is to catalyze the negative emotion. All negative emotions stem from one place, ego. This is why if one submits his/her will to Allah, via letting go of the ego, Iblis becomes irrelevant
1542 1542 ?Verily, you shall have no power over My servants, except those who put themselves in error and follow you.?
gives what? i mean how much giving is giving enough to experience that serenity?
It's not quantity, but quality. When you give from the heart, the serenity will follow.
which feeling therein is human and which feeling is emotion?
They are one and the same.
when god said to the malaikatu to prostrate unto adam....were these emotions outside adam?
It' difficult to describe this via physical descriptions. You must remember that our physical bodies are complete illusions. There really is no such thing as being outside of something. All that we can "see" is filtered through a sort of virtual reality, but the true essence of all matter is merely vibration of electricity. There is no matter.
by their submission (as u put it) to me does it mean i can call them as and when i want?
Of course. If you want to experience serenity, give. If you want to experience compassion, observe with your heart. The more you act in accordance with Allah, the more you will surround yourself with the malaikat. Beautiful, isn't it?
'malaika' is plural so good emotions...plural...what is iblis...is it also a good emotion? if it is a bad emotion then since quran has adressed it as singular what is this singular bad emotion?
Iblis is ego/arrogance/selfish desire
712 He said "What has prevented you from submitting when I have ordered you?" He said "I am far better than him, You created me from fire and created him from clay!"It is my understanding that Iblis' "birth", if you will, coincides with the birth of man. Iblis is the consequence of freewill, a domain of darkness that only manifests when the lights are turned off.
some people get a lot of peace by exacting revenge...in being spiteful and i am pretty much serious here...i have known such people...atleast at that time they are very much at peace....so in that case??
Disillusionment. There is no possibility of feeling peace while acting out of accordance with God. Revenge is a fire that feeds itself. People mistake the feeling of power as a feeling of peace. They are not the same.
yes i have wondered about 41 30 myself...but neither have i seen any of who disbelieve say that..4129..have u?
No, that's why a deeper meaning must be looked into.
however...the quran does speak of people who recieved tidings from angels...but perhaps u dont believe the quran unless u can verify angels till u see them with ur eyes..or in the very least someone tells u "yes i saw 1"...but i guess u would still not believe
We're talking about 2 different things here. People who receive tidings from angels receive them from within. If someone told me they saw an angel, I would be very curious about the details. I don't have to see the angel, it just has to fit the understanding provided by God.
i am not being judgemental...i am pretty cynical about god itself..but if and when i finally kick it out i dont want to have any reasonings to oppose my action!
Cynicism starts you off in a negative base. It would be better to start off blank and leave yourself open to all possibilities. The Qur'an asks us again and again to look into the universe to see the signs of God. You will see no signs of angels flying around or perched on trees, or the devil and his legion of demons lurking in the shadows. What you will see is an overwhelming energy called "cause and effect". This is the basis of my understanding, and I believe it is well reinforced by the guidance of God.
17 40 What! has then your Lord preferred to give you sons, and (for Himself) taken daughters from among the angels? Most surely you utter a grievous saying.
does that mean god is talking about daughters from good emotions?
I don't believe that all angels are emotions. I believe that all emotions are /species/ of angel. Angels, as it seems to me, covers a wider range of universal energy than simply emotions. But that's another topic altogether. The problems in understanding these verses usually manifest when we take the text literally.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace Tay. Excellent analysis of 'angels' and emotions. )
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Peace Tay. Excellent analysis of 'angels' and emotions.
Excellent? Please somebody explain the following verse according to the lobic of Tay
069.017
069.017 And the angels will be on its sides, and eight will, that Day, bear the Throne of thy Lord above them.Al-Qur'an, 069.017 (Al-Haaqqa )
Sincerely,
VirtualEye -
Peace virtualeye. Possible interpretation; Your emotions (multiple,good ones.) will be supporting you (in your truth,or reality.) that day. (time period.)
Please dont get into too much literalism... Is it the meaning you want?...or a word for word literal,linguistic,unintelligible translation? -
Peace virtualeye. Possible interpretation; Your emotions (multiple,good ones.) will be supporting you (in your truth,or reality.) that day. (time period.)
Please dont get into too much literalism... Is it the meaning you want?...or a word for word literal,linguistic,unintelligible translation?Is your comment a typo? or you are really that stupid?
Is it essential to totally change the meaning of the verse which I refer?
When I give reference of verse which has more metaphorical meaning then you will take that literally.
The only motive is that somehow you break and twist the verse and make its spagetti and then say "look it means this and not that"Even a blind can see what does this verse is refering to. Maybe the blind from heart cant see. They need justificaction.
VirtualEye.
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Peace,
Malik-a mean literaly; the ones (given) authority/control, and is not a titel for one thing only, as the transaltion of angel is wrong, as this a titel with an already fixed concept of the meaning, while the meaning ; the ones given control/power, gives a wider and logical insight on a lot of verses; just like jinns, means being not seen, as jahim means barriere, as salaat means contact. Kaaba means basis.The way to interpretate is depended on the context of the verse.
As malik-a don't only refer to emotions, but also to powers in the creation as lighting, kinds of energy, laws of nature, and so on. It are things inside the creation that guide it, are part of it and so on. These serve us and protect us, as the ozon-layer protect you and so on. Iblis-sheitan, your ego, belongs also as one who has power, that didn't submit to God, as God made it to rebel, to learn us the responsibility of conciousness.
Peace
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As malik-a don't only refer to emotions, but also to powers in the creation as lighting, kinds of energy, laws of nature, and so on. It are things inside the creation that guide it, are part of it and so on. These serve us and protect us, as the ozon-layer protect you and so on. Iblis-sheitan, your ego, belongs also as one who has power, that didn't submit to God, as God made it to rebel, to learn us the responsibility of conciousness.
Salam all
Shame on you guys
You are producing such non-sense that angels are ozon-layer etc while the rest of the world are developing nano-technologies etc.That's why we muslims couldn't make any progress.
1736 And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and mind, all these you are responsible for.
peace
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Peace,
For a part your right, but this is my best understanding of what God refers to in the Quran. And 'the ones in control/power' is the literal translation of the word malik-a, to get a clearer picture of how it is used inside the Quran, as it doesn't refer to one kind of 'being', as angels are not the correct translation of the word, as these are mythological creatures from the Egyptians.
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tay wrote
Before we get heavy, please note that my understandings are very far from complete and constantly under refinement,noted without ur saying.......D...jus kiddin....my understandin is the worst i have known and ever will be known to me (
tay wrote
and thus any and all questions and comments can only help the understandings grow and become more refined.yes...and treat mine the same way -)
tay wrote
You askedQuote
i wonder if u could spare some time to explain emotions...thoughts...good emotions and bad emotions...good thoughts and bad thoughtsLet's have another look at what is said about angels
3125 Indeed, if you are patient and are righteous and they come and attack you, He will supply you with five thousand of the Angels battle trained.
Could it be that angels would actually descend upon the battlefield sporting plate mail armor and swords ready to fight?
No.
3126 And God did not give this except as good news to you, and so that your hearts may be assured with it. Victory is only from God, the Noble, the Wise.
So the angels are not entities ready to fight at a moment's notice, but they are probably best described as the emotion of determination/conviction.
Each good emotion, I would venture to say, is it's own /species/ of angel. They submit to the will of man. If man wills to act righteously, then the angels are obligated to follow by giving man the experience of their essence.
Conversely, Iblis' sole purpose is to catalyze the negative emotion. All negative emotions stem from one place, ego. This is why if one submits his/her will to Allah, via letting go of the ego, Iblis becomes irrelevant
1542 1542 Verily, you shall have no power over My servants, except those who put themselves in error and follow you.
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gives what? i mean how much giving is giving enough to experience that serenity?It's not quantity, but quality. When you give from the heart, the serenity will follow.
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which feeling therein is human and which feeling is emotion?They are one and the same.
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when god said to the malaikatu to prostrate unto adam....were these emotions outside adam?It' difficult to describe this via physical descriptions. You must remember that our physical bodies are complete illusions. There really is no such thing as being outside of something. All that we can "see" is filtered through a sort of virtual reality, but the true essence of all matter is merely vibration of electricity. There is no matter.
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by their submission (as u put it) to me does it mean i can call them as and when i want?Of course. If you want to experience serenity, give. If you want to experience compassion, observe with your heart. The more you act in accordance with Allah, the more you will surround yourself with the malaikat. Beautiful, isn't it?
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'malaika' is plural so good emotions...plural...what is iblis...is it also a good emotion? if it is a bad emotion then since quran has adressed it as singular what is this singular bad emotion?Iblis is ego/arrogance/selfish desire
712 He said "What has prevented you from submitting when I have ordered you?" He said "I am far better than him, You created me from fire and created him from clay!"It is my understanding that Iblis' "birth", if you will, coincides with the birth of man. Iblis is the consequence of freewill, a domain of darkness that only manifests when the lights are turned off.
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some people get a lot of peace by exacting revenge...in being spiteful and i am pretty much serious here...i have known such people...atleast at that time they are very much at peace....so in that case??Disillusionment. There is no possibility of feeling peace while acting out of accordance with God. Revenge is a fire that feeds itself.
People mistake the feeling of power as a feeling of peace. They are not the same.
if u do not mind is it okay if i keep it for later time and get down first to that which u asked about 4130...if u do mind its okay....i will get back to this...the reason i say is that i feel v might do well to agree or disagree on a specific thing..if possible...before going on to the next so that v can have as common understanding as possible or in the very least know each other's understanding a bit better! -)
tay wrote
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yes i have wondered about 41 30 myself...but neither have i seen any of who disbelieve say that..4129..have u?No, that's why a deeper meaning must be looked into.
true...but v can see from 4127-28 that 4129 is talking about a retribution....perhaps after death...so they will be making those statements when the retribution of god is realised upon them....so it is very possible that in 4130 god is contrasting the state of those who believed and stood firm on the path with the state of those who disbelieved...like i said 21104 is also a good reference...i think u perhaps overlooked it....do u have anything to add to that? -)
tay wrote
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however...the quran does speak of people who recieved tidings from angels...but perhaps u dont believe the quran unless u can verify angels till u see them with ur eyes..or in the very least someone tells u "yes i saw 1"...but i guess u would still not believeWe're talking about 2 different things here. People who receive tidings from angels receive them from within. If someone told me they saw an angel, I would be very curious about the details. I don't have to see the angel, it just has to fit the understanding provided by God.
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i am not being judgemental...i am pretty cynical about god itself..but if and when i finally kick it out i dont want to have any reasonings to oppose my action!Cynicism starts you off in a negative base. It would be better to start off blank and leave yourself open to all possibilities. The Qur'an asks us again and again to look into the universe to see the signs of God. You will see no signs of angels flying around or perched on trees, or the devil and his legion of demons lurking in the shadows. What you will see is an overwhelming energy called "cause and effect". This is the basis of my understanding, and I believe it is well reinforced by the guidance of God.
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17 40 What! has then your Lord preferred to give you sons, and (for Himself) taken daughters from among the angels? Most surely you utter a grievous saying.does that mean god is talking about daughters from good emotions?
I don't believe that all angels are emotions. I believe that all emotions are /species/ of angel. Angels, as it seems to me, covers a wider range of universal energy than simply emotions. But that's another topic altogether. The problems in understanding these verses usually manifest when we take the text literally.
sorry if u mind...but i think lets get a firm understanding on 4129-30 so that v can then see the other verses with a sure understanding of those verses! -)
peace -)
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Peace All,
Please, if you have nothing to offer to the discussion, it would be better to keep quiet than to call people names and babble with empty rhetoric. This isn't elementary school.
you are really that stupid?
Shame on you guys
You are producing such non-sense that angels are ozon-layer etc while the rest of the world are developing nano-technologies etc.That's why we muslims couldn't make any progress.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace Enquirer, thegod, Arnoldyasin,
Enquirer, thanks for the kind words.
thegod, you stated
true...but v can see from 4127-28 that 4129 is talking about a retribution....perhaps after death...so they will be making those statements when the retribution of god is realised upon them....so it is very possible that in 4130 god is contrasting the state of those who believed and stood firm on the path with the state of those who disbelieved...like i said 21104 is also a good reference...i think u perhaps overlooked it....do u have anything to add to that? -)
My position still stands. I don't see how the preceding context of 4130 diminshes it's value of presence. This seems to be further reinforced by 4131...
"We are your allies in this worldly life and in the Hereafter. In it you will have anything your soul desires, and in it you will have anything you ask for."
As for 21104, I'm not sure of the relevance. Please elaborate.
Arnoldyasin, you stated
As malik-a don't only refer to emotions, but also to powers in the creation as lighting, kinds of energy, laws of nature, and so on. It are things inside the creation that guide it, are part of it and so on. These serve us and protect us, as the ozon-layer protect you and so on. Iblis-sheitan, your ego, belongs also as one who has power, that didn't submit to God, as God made it to rebel, to learn us the responsibility of conciousness.
Very well stated. I agree completely.
Peace,
Tay -
tay wrote
thegod, you stated
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true...but v can see from 4127-28 that 4129 is talking about a retribution....perhaps after death...so they will be making those statements when the retribution of god is realised upon them....so it is very possible that in 4130 god is contrasting the state of those who believed and stood firm on the path with the state of those who disbelieved...like i said 21104 is also a good reference...i think u perhaps overlooked it....do u have anything to add to that? -)My position still stands. I don't see how the preceding context of 4130 diminshes it's value of presence.
perhaps it does...god is talking about the miserable condition of who associate in 4129...and in 4130 contrasts it with the condition of who believe and remain on the straight path...its quite clear that 4129 is talking about a time when the retribution of god is upon them..either at death or at the time which the promise of the event is realised...so it would be a just reasoning to suppose god is talking about the state of who believe at this time when the state of those who associate would be abject!
tay wrote
This seems to be further reinforced by 4131...
"We are your allies in this worldly life and in the Hereafter. In it you will have anything your soul desires, and in it you will have anything you ask for."
4131 simply has the angels telling the believers who remained steadfast that they were their auliya in the life of the world so too will be in the akhira..and that in the akhira they will have anything they wish...i do not see how it reinforces a belief that angels will be telling this personally to each who claims to believe! -)
tay wrote
As for 21104, I'm not sure of the relevance. Please elaborate.
2197 And the true promise shall draw nigh, then lo! the eyes of those who disbelieved shall be fixedly open O woe to us! surely we were m a state of heedlessness as to this; nay, we were unjust.
2198 Surely you and what you worship besides Allah are the firewood of hell; to it you shall come.
2199 Had these been gods, they would not have come to it and all shall abide therein.
21100 For them therein shall be groaning and therein they shall not hear.
21101 Surely (as for) those for whom the good has already gone forth from Us, they shall be kept far off from it;
21102 They will not hear its faintest sound, and they shall abide in that which their souls long for.
21103 The great fearful event shall not grieve them, and the angels shall meet them This is your day which you were promised.
21104 On the day when We will roll up heaven like the rolling up of the scroll for writings, as We originated the first creation, (so) We shall reproduce it; a promise (binding on Us); surely We will bring it about.
21105 And certainly We wrote in the Book after the reminder that (as for) the land, My righteous servants shall inherit it.see if that elaborates anything! -)
peace -)
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Peace thegod,
You stated
perhaps it does...god is talking about the miserable condition of who associate in 4129...and in 4130 contrasts it with the condition of who believe and remain on the straight path...its quite clear that 4129 is talking about a time when the retribution of god is upon them..either at death or at the time which the promise of the event is realised...so it would be a just reasoning to suppose god is talking about the state of who believe at this time when the state of those who associate would be abject!
I understand and agree that there is a comparison being presented. However, this does not nullify the dialogue being in the present tense, since clearly, as you admit, in 4131 the malaikat are stating "that they were their auliya in the life of the world".
Think about the timing indicated by this dialogue. If this is taking place after death or the last day, why would angels be telling people of things to come? The people are already there. In addition, this position would contradict 569, where we're told believers will have nothing to fear, and no grief will touch them. If no grief can touch them, why would they then need a reminder not to grieve? Grief and fear will already be removed from the consciousness. The people would have no idea what these angels are talking about.
4131 simply has the angels telling the believers who remained steadfast that they were their auliya in the life of the world so too will be in the akhira..and that in the akhira they will have anything they wish...i do not see how it reinforces a belief that angels will be telling this personally to each who claims to believe! -)
4131 Nahnu awliyaokum fee alhayati alddunya wafee al-akhirati walakum feeha ma tashtahee anfusukum walakum feeha ma taddaAAoona
"We are your allies in this worldly life and in the Hereafter. In it you will have anything your soul desires, and in it you will have anything you ask for."
Do you see the relevance? Present tense; this life.
2197 And the true promise shall draw nigh, then lo! the eyes of those who disbelieved shall be fixedly open O woe to us! surely we were m a state of heedlessness as to this; nay, we were unjust.
2198 Surely you and what you worship besides Allah are the firewood of hell; to it you shall come.
2199 Had these been gods, they would not have come to it and all shall abide therein.
21100 For them therein shall be groaning and therein they shall not hear.
21101 Surely (as for) those for whom the good has already gone forth from Us, they shall be kept far off from it;
21102 They will not hear its faintest sound, and they shall abide in that which their souls long for.
21103 The great fearful event shall not grieve them, and the angels shall meet them This is your day which you were promised.
21104 On the day when We will roll up heaven like the rolling up of the scroll for writings, as We originated the first creation, (so) We shall reproduce it; a promise (binding on Us); surely We will bring it about.
21105 And certainly We wrote in the Book after the reminder that (as for) the land, My righteous servants shall inherit it.see if that elaborates anything! -)
Bro, clearly you said 21104, not 2197-105.
Nevertheless, I believe it is 21103 that solidifies your point, and I cannot disagree. It is clear enough that angels will greet us, either symbolically or literally, after J-day. But again, this does not negate a present communication with them, as mentioned in 3124-125, 89, 812, not ignoring the numerous times angels are mentioned as expressing clear dialogue to messengers.Peace,
Tay -
tay wrote
I understand and agree that there is a comparison being presented. However, this does not nullify the dialogue being in the present tense, since clearly, as you admit, in 4131 the malaikat are stating "that they were their auliya in the life of the world".tense....yes...i will come to this!
tay wrote
Think about the timing indicated by this dialogue. If this is taking place after death or the last day, why would angels be telling people of things to come? The people are already there. In addition, this position would contradict 569, where we're told believers will have nothing to fear, and no grief will touch them. If no grief can touch them, why would they then need a reminder not to grieve? Grief and fear will already be removed from the consciousness. The people would have no idea what these angels are talking about.i am not too sure about how u explained 569! 569 says there will be no fear upon them nor will they grieve...it does not say it will be removed from their consciousness!
like lets say u are living in a place from where u can see a fire raging at some distance...i tell u 'if u do so and so no fear shall be upon u nor shall u grieve!'...by doing 'so and so' u reach another place and there i tell u...'welcome...do not fear and do not grieve for i was with u there and i am with u here and here u shall have that which u desire'...lolz...to be honest i am not sure if that makes sense but do tell me if u can offer discrepancies in there!
i think its the way u are understanding 'no fear upon u and not shall u grieve'! does it make sense to say 'that thing which is to be feared would be removed from u as such u would not have reasons to fear' rather than 'u will forget the meaning of fear'? i say this with these 2 verses to perhaps lend some credibility
3756 He shall say By Allah! you had almost caused me to perish;
3738 And had it not been for the favor of my Lord, I would certainly have been among those brought up.the speaker does understand perish...doesnt he?
tay wrote
4131 Nahnu awliyaokum fee alhayati alddunya wafee al-akhirati walakum feeha ma tashtahee anfusukum walakum feeha ma taddaAAoona"We are your allies in this worldly life and in the Hereafter. In it you will have anything your soul desires, and in it you will have anything you ask for."
Do you see the relevance? Present tense; this life.
yes...i see what u are saying...i think there are 2 tenses in arabic...complete/perfect and continuous/imperfect...and i think this sentence is devoid of verbs...'nahnu'...'awliya'..'kum'..'fee'...'hayatadduniya'...'wa'...'alakhira'...there are no verbs to really decide the tense for this sentence with relation to them...i do think it can very well be translated as 'nahnu (were) ur awliya in life of the world and (are) in alakhira'...if this understanding is wrong feel free to correct me! -)
still...how would u write in arabic 'we were ur awliya in the life of the world'?
tay wrote
Bro, clearly you said 21104, not 2197-105.yes...i meant 21103 as an immediate comparison but i do think the rest helps us well! -)
tay wrote
Nevertheless, I believe it is 21103 that solidifies your point, and I cannot disagree. It is clear enough that angels will greet us, either symbolically or literally, after J-day.cool! -)
tay wrote
But again, this does not negate a present communication with them, as mentioned in 3124-125, 89, 812, not ignoring the numerous times angels are mentioned as expressing clear dialogue to messengers.i went throught 3124-125...there it talks about the messenger telling who believe about angels aiding the believers...it does not say about them talking to those believers themselves...i think u will have somethings to say about this though!
as for 89 it is similar and so is 812...none talk of angels talking face to face with believers...but yes i do think u are going to talk about the angels in the battlefield...-S....armor clad angels wielding gleaming swords...lolz...i do think u will be bringing that up but i will wait till u do that...and take a break from this till then! ;D
however...i do hope v reach a firm agreement...atleast as far as v can afford to agree...over 4129-30! -)
peace
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I believe in anything the Quran says. If the Quran says the believers are the one who believe in all the messengers, I believe in all of them, I do not need to know them all by name or to know their books but I believe they existed and they received the revelation with the same wisdom in Quran as I believe in Noah's floods as I believe in Loth's city destruction ect...., I don't need a proof, Quran is sufficient for me. What is wrong with that?
Exactly sister
that is what a true submitter is
Allah bless
Salam
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salam
I don't believe the angels are our good emotions
Neither do I.That's why I put the smily ;D
peace
I was fooled for a second here bro, thanks for clearing it
Cheers
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Your understanding from verse 1736 is completely wrong.
Salam man
good to see you on this web site
look bro you will see most here are understanding 1736 wrong, i explained it to them many times but their ego is way too high man, well currently everytime i see anyone mentionting 1736 under the wrong understanding, it makes me laugh LOL
Salam
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Hello,
Every verse which is refered, if that is not to be taken literally then it means God never meant what he meant. He could not use direct words to explain something but kept on messaging in encrypted signals so that no common human can understand BUT ONLY THE PEOPLE WHO COME AFTER 1400 YEARS.
THIS ALOS IMPLIES THAT GOD WANTED ALL MUSLIMS TO BE ON ASTRAY FOR MORE THAN A 1000 YEARS AND THEN HE GAVE GUIDANCE TO THESE FREE-MINDS IN 20th CENTURY.
NAOOZUBILLAH.MAYBE SOMEBODY MORE STUPID WILL COME ON FORUM AND WILL START TO SAY THAT THE WORD "ALLAH" DOES NOT REFER TO WHAT PEOPLE HAD BEEN THINKING, BUT SOMETHING ELSE.
FOR THESE PEOLE, WHEN THEY WILL DIE, THERE WILL NOT BE AN ANGEL OF DEATH, BUT SOME OZON LAYER.
VirtualEye.