Please Help Me.
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You moroccan girls are feisty.............my girlfriend is also moroccan ;D she would have said the same.....
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Salam
For those who promote that Abu Lahab is a nothing but a symbol of a rich man, then i have to ask why the wife of that rich man must be condemned as well?
Some suggested that the wives will be dragged along with their husbands, but hold on a sec
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Did the the sura suggested that the wife will be dragged with that bad man and therefore she must be condemned as well?, NEVER EVER
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The Quran gave us a few examples of many wives
a) The wife of Pharaoh, a good wife to a bad man
b) The wife of Lut, a bad wife to a good man
c) The wife of Noah, a bad wife to a good manThose wives were not dragged with their husbands, especially the wife of the vefry rich Pharaoh, so were exactly that law of a wife been dragged with her husband?
I don't really understand why people cause this confusion
Salam
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Salaam,
I think you have misunderstood TheNabi, as i believe he meant that she has done also something bad to deserve the punishment. Nobody carries somebody else's deeds. I don't believe he meant it like that. And what you refer to sounds more something based on a hadith.....
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Thanks arnold
not really bro, my comment is directed to the public ,because if I wanted to direct it to joe i would have done so, i believe that VE posted it for that reason and i just put it straightforward
now for the hadith thing you mentioned, well you call it hadith, i don't, i call it history records, now the Quran confirmed that history record in this sura, what more evidence can i have more than the Quran to confirm a history record?
Peace
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Peace,
this surah was meant for the prophet and his people and has no direct reference to us. So it doesn't matter if we know it or not who he was and what he did.
Peace
So you totally put the matter to the river.
If I agree what are you saying then followin is true
1- Quran is not for all ages. Only some verses are.
2- This surah has no meaning and is extra in quran.
3- Allah wanted us to not understand this surah so that we just keep guessing and saying that it does not belong to us.
4- If we can not understand some verses in Quran then we should assume that it is not for us.
5- If we dont undersatand about who was Lahab and his wife then we just quit the issue by just GUESSING that it has something to do with prophet.
6- We invent story that Lahab must have done somthing wrong with prophet that he was cursed. But we dont know what did he do so that we can learn lesson.
7- Not knowing even a single bit about this surah's context, we are totally BLIND.Sincerely,
VirtualEye.
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Ok, then i understand. Yes, you can call it history. but i'm a bit carefull with that, cause in my studies with also other traditions, we can see that people make up stories with the information given in their books. So anybody could have made an story about an Abulahab and his wife, by knowing the name from the Quran and how they are judged in it. The first stories that were spread mostly came from storytellers that made their living travelling from town to town, and filling stories in like that. So i'm always a bit carefull. But that is not the discussion here. I already explained VE, that even if you knew the history or not, you're not better guided, as all behaviour that is condemned is already mentioned clearly in the Quran. So it doesn't matter if we know it or not, and that is something VE tried here.
Peace
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What is the context for this surah?
he context is about wrongdoers and their companions, both of whom are dragged down to levels of degredation.
WHAT WRONG DID HE DO, WHY BOTH OF THEM, AND WHO BOTH OF THEM???
Why Allah revealed this surah?
This is the criterion, seperating and distinguishing.
WHAT DO YOU MEAN? I DONT UNDERSTAND.
Who was Lahab?
The one whose works are for naught and who will come to naught.
WE MUST KNOW "WHO" WAS THIS PERSON AND WHAT DID HE DO. NO GUESSINGS PLEASE.
Who was his wife?
His companion is the one who will be dragged along with him.
THAT IS ALREADY BEING TOLD. BUT WHY HIS COMPANION WILL BE DRAGGED? WHAT DID SHE DO?
What did they do that they are being cursed?
They trust in their riches; they think it should save them.
THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WHO TRUST RICHES. THEN WHY SPECIALLY LAHAB MENTIONED IN QURAN SO ANGRILY AND HIS WIFE ALSO CURSED SO ANGRILY???
Sincerely,
VirtualEye. -
Peace,
Quote
1- Quran is not for all ages. Only some verses are.
Is that so strange? And not some verses, don't twist it. This is one of the SMALLEST sura's. more then 90% is to be understood by all ages, just as some science verses are only understood now, and not in the time of the prophet, the prophet knew himself not what some could indicate.
2- This surah has no meaning and is extra in quran.
It has no meaning for US, it had meaning for the person who knew Abulahab, the PROPHET, don't twist it, doesn't work.
3- Allah wanted us to not understand this surah so that we just keep guessing and saying that it does not belong to us.
No, you are the one who wants an answer, i understand when it doesn't matter. Even if you believe the stories, still you are not more guided, as it still had only real meaning for the prophet.This is something you can't twist out of.
4- If we can not understand some verses in Quran then we should assume that it is not for us.
Then we are not ready yet, or it has no special link to us, but every thing in the Quran has special meaning for someone.
5- If we dont undersatand about who was Lahab and his wife then we just quit the issue by just GUESSING that it has something to do with prophet.
This is no guessing, this is logical, as this can only be said to someone, and so it can only be said by the prophet to somebody who he knew. It is un-logical this was revealed for somebody who was born after the prophet, as he then would not know it was directed at him, so it can only be linked to somebody that was known to the prophet. This is so logical....
6- We invent story that Lahab must have done somthing wrong with prophet that he was cursed. But we dont know what did he do so that we can learn lesson.
All things you shoyuldn't do are already clearly mentioned in the Quran. Name me one thing that Abu lahab has done that is mentioned in the hadith, that is not mentioned in the Quran as condemned behaviour. You will find nothing.....So you are not better guided by knowing the story....
7- Not knowing even a single bit about this surah's context, we are totally BLIND.
No, you maybe, not me. i know for certain that it is linked with the prophet, that the guy is in trouble, and that he deserved it.'It shows beautifully how God supported the prophet.You are not better guided by knowing the person, you will not learn extra things to know about behaviour, as all condemned behaviour is already clearly mentioned in the Quran. This is clearly linked with the prophet as the person must know it was him that the Quran means. So it can only be said by the prophet to a person he knew. And it shows perfectly how God supported the prophet, strenghting his spirit by these suras. So there is no need to know the story. Name me ONE thing mentioned in the hadith about this story that is not mentioned in the Quran about behaviour of people who were against the prophet or about people who handle their wealth. This argument is weak....
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Ok, then i understand. Yes, you can call it history. but i'm a bit carefull with that, cause in my studies with also other traditions, we can see that people make up stories with the information given in their books. So anybody could have made an story about an Abulahab and his wife, by knowing the name from the Quran and how they are judged in it. The first stories that were spread mostly came from storytellers that made their living travelling from town to town, and filling stories in like that. So i'm always a bit carefull. But that is not the discussion here. I already explained VE, that even if you knew the history or not, you're not better guided, as all behaviour that is condemned is already mentioned clearly in the Quran. So it doesn't matter if we know it or not, and that is something VE tried here.
Peace
So you admit that you have to dig history with caution?
Since you believe in this surah as you belive in whole Quran, So you must know what is it about. Why? because its Quran only MOTIVE to not to rely on any historical HERESY or any Ahadith, and to understand Quran by themselves. If they have to rely on vuneralble history with caution then Ahadith are also vunerable history. Why dont they use that then? What is the difference in getting some idea from Ahadith to undersand Suarh AND getting some idea from vunerable history to understand Surah???VE
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This was directed to Ahmed, not you. And i don't say anything here that i use history! AB does. And i don't trust those stories as they are written more then 200 years later all by none Arabs. That it's why its not history, but propaganda. All religions have used the same tactics to make believe in these stories so they followed their ideas....
And there are scientifical means to see what can be trusted and what not. The hadith fail big time..
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Peace Arnold
I read your comment, and I have a few questions please
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how you take other stories told in the Quran then?, the many many stories that was about people that you never met and you can't verify their existance in the past
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if this sura is included in the Quran, and the Quran is for all humanity then why it can't be a message for us regarding what happned in the past exactly as the Quran told us about many other stories in the past
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if this sura is just a mere history record which I agree, isn't enough that it was told to us by Allah that we pay much attention to it even if it is a mere story from the past?
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why not it can't be an indirect prophecy that Abu lahab (The uncle of the prophet) and his wife will die kafirs?
peace
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This was directed to Ahmed, not you. And i don't say anything here that i use history! AB does. And i don't trust those stories as they are written more then 200 years later all by none Arabs. That it's why its not history, but propaganda. All religions have used the same tactics to make believe in these stories so they followed their ideas....
And there are scientifical means to see what can be trusted and what not. The hadith fail big time..
So you simply endup by saying that it has no meaning for us and was for past only. If this is the logic, then anybody can claim such things....Who will decide then which surah is for all ages and which for only past?
If a criminal is to be punished by the Islamic Law, then criminal will just claim that he is Quran only believer and has the right to interpret Quran according to this understanding, so he claims that the punishment described in quran is only for the past. Now who will deny his right of his own interpretation?
ANY PERSON HAVING SOME PROBLEM WITH SOME PART OF QURAN CAN JUST GET RID OF IT SAYING THAT IT WAS FOR THOSE PAST PEOPLE. CAN YOU DENY HIS RIGHT OF FREE THINKING???
VE
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There is NOT even a single story in Quran, in which Allah did not directly and clearly tell what the previous Nations did for which they were punished. ACTUALLY THE ONLY REASON OF NARRATIONS OF THOSE STORIES IN QURAN IS THE LESSON FOR US THAT WE SHOULD NOT DO THE SAME THINGS.
AND WHO THE HELL TOLD YOU THAT IF WE DONT UNDERSTAND SOME SURAH IN QURAN, THEN WE JUST SAY DONT BOTHER ABOUT IT AND JUST RELY ON THE REMAINING PART TO FIND OUT WHAT IS RIGHT AND WRONG.??
VE
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Peace Arnold
I read your comment, and I have a few questions please
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how you take other stories told in the Quran then?, the many many stories that was about people that you never met and you can't verify their existance in the past
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if this sura is included in the Quran, and the Quran is for all humanity then why it can't be a message for us regarding what happned in the past exactly as the Quran told us about many other stories in the past
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if this sura is just a mere history record which I agree, isn't enough that it was told to us by Allah that we pay much attention to it even if it is a mere story from the past?
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why not it can't be an indirect prophecy that Abu lahab (The uncle of the prophet) and his wife will die kafirs?
peace
Ther is not a single story in Quran, in which Allah did not directly and clearly tell what the previous Nations did for which they were punished. ACTUALLY THE ONLY REASON OF NARRATIONS OF THOSE STORIES IN QURAN IS THE LESSON FOR US THAT WE SHOULD NOT DO THE SAME THINGS.
sure, i know that
AND WHO THE HELL TOLD YOU THAT IF WE DONT UNDERSTAND SOME SURAH IN QURAN, THEN WE JUST SAY DONT BOTHER ABOUT IT AND JUST RELY ON THE REMAINING PART TO FIND OUT WHAT IS RIGHT AND WRONG.??
VE
sorry?, did i say that one hell told me anything? can you please clarify
Thanks
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AND WHO THE HELL TOLD YOU THAT IF WE DONT UNDERSTAND SOME SURAH IN QURAN, THEN WE JUST SAY DONT BOTHER ABOUT IT AND JUST RELY ON THE REMAINING PART TO FIND OUT WHAT IS RIGHT AND WRONG.??
VE
sorry?, did i say that one hell told me anything? can you please clarify
Thanks
Sorry that was for Arnold Shwazniger. )
VE
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Ok thanks bro, i realized that, i was just a bit quick for you
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Peace,
AB, the thing is, where the information comes from, who wrote it done and why? So that is why i study theology now to investigate this all. We know more about Jesus from non-christian sources, them Muhammed where by all sources all came from a certain group. A group that i distrust. That is the big difference. Also a lot of things can be archeological verified, and found in multiple records from outside sources. This is not the case with Muhammed, so that is why i'm carefull.
VE, as this sura is clear, as it directly refers to a historic person that was connected with the prophet. And who is the only one that benifited from this knowledge? The prophet!! Does it benefit you? NO. Can you learn form Abulahab's behaviour which is not mentioned already inside the Quran? NO.
So no, you cannot just say a law is for the people of the past, as that would be clear from the text itself. In this sura it directly mentioned for a historical person. 2 individuals, and it doesn't give any laws besides it. So this is an ignorant claim, you have poor arguments VE. There is not a law, that is dubious if it is for us, or other people. All laws are clear in the Quran, there can be no doubt about that. But this is no law, this is a sura directed to 2 persons that clearly were fighting the prophet. Even if you believe the hadith story about Abu lahab, EVEN THEN YOU WOULD KNOW THIS IS NOT MEANT FOR YOU AND ME, BUT FOR HIM AND HIS WIFE AND THE PROPHET AND HIS direct FOLLOWERS. So it is clear however you look at the story it is not meant for us. Are you better guided by knowing he and his wife go to Hell? NO. Is there any behaviour told in the hadith that is not mentioned in the Quran? NO.
There is no way people can use this argument to dismiss certain laws, and still i learn from the story, without hadith, that God supported the prophet with spiritual strength by showing his enemies would not get away with their behaviour. And like you said yourself, everytime God gives a people as an example, he also tells why they are an example!
Peace
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Peace,
Can you learn form Abulahab's behaviour which is not mentioned already inside the Quran? NO.
Peace
Yes Alhamdulillah, Because I am sunni. I can understand all context and purpose with the help of Ahadith.
By the way your comments saying
connected to prophet
connected to prophet
connected to prophet
connected to prophet........
connected to prophet
......
...Where is it written that it is connected to prophet? Maybe AbuLahad did some abuse to Allah directly or did something wrong to other muslims or invented some Bidah. Who told you that it must be connected to Prophet?
Now dont just again justify your beliefs by giving vague arguments. Please -X
Regards.
VE -
Peace,
AB, the thing is, where the information comes from, who wrote it done and why? So that is why i study theology now to investigate this all. We know more about Jesus from non-christian sources, them Muhammed where by all sources all came from a certain group. A group that i distrust. That is the big difference. Also a lot of things can be archeological verified, and found in multiple records from outside sources. This is not the case with Muhammed, so that is why i'm carefull.
peace mate
but you didn't answer the rest of the questions
There is no way people can use this argument to dismiss certain laws, and still i learn from the story, without hadith, that God supported the prophet with spiritual strength by showing his enemies would not get away with their behaviour. And like you said yourself, everytime God gives a people as an example, he also tells why they are an example!
Peace
This tells me that you learnt something from the story, therefore you took it as it was directed to you, why denying this fact then?
Peace