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  4. Please Help Me.

Please Help Me.

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  • T Offline
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    TheNabi
    wrote on last edited by
    #35

    Peace

    WHAT WRONG DID HE DO, WHY BOTH OF THEM, AND WHO BOTH OF THEM???

    I said it was his trust in his wealth as a pass that crushed him. Both of them because each is guilty of something. The one does not drag down the other in their guilt .

    These people are archetypes.

    WHAT DO YOU MEAN? I DONT UNDERSTAND.

    It is alfurqan/the criterion, it distinguishes between what is right and what is wrong according to the Lord. It seperates, and distinguishes this for us. Here it is shown what is not to be upheld. God is clear as to what brings people close to him .

    WE MUST KNOW "WHO" WAS THIS PERSON AND WHAT DID HE DO. NO GUESSINGS PLEASE.

    We do know that he was an opposer who believed in lies. No guessing there. It is clear from the reading what the fault is in such an archetype. There have been many such beings as abu lahab .

    THAT IS ALREADY BEING TOLD. BUT WHY HIS COMPANION WILL BE DRAGGED? WHAT DID SHE DO?

    It is said hammalat alhatab which mean that his companion is the bearer of slander. Her deeds tie her down and his bring him to naught that is good.

    THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WHO TRUST RICHES. THEN WHY SPECIALLY LAHAB MENTIONED IN QURAN SO ANGRILY AND HIS WIFE ALSO CURSED SO ANGRILY???

    Exactly, many are. This particular character is mentioned because he and his companion are archetypes for all others. History clearly repeats itself, and experience is the key to the reading.

    Joe

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      arnoldyasin
      wrote on last edited by
      #36

      Peace,

      Magi, because of discussing we become well-grounded in knowledge as we can see what's right or wrong in certain arguments. How else do you think we can reach the status you refer to? By sitting back and say nothing? That is not my style......I believe if you study all the different angles of how we can approach verses, then we become well-grounded in knowledge, but indeed must we always be ready to accept knew understandings.

      Caveman, beautifull tasreef......

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        unknownuser
        wrote on last edited by
        #37

        Salam

        For those who promote that Abu Lahab is a nothing but a symbol of a rich man, then i have to ask why the wife of that rich man must be condemned as well?

        Some suggested that the wives will be dragged along with their husbands, but hold on a sec

        1. Did the the sura suggested that the wife will be dragged with that bad man and therefore she must be condemned as well?, NEVER EVER

        2. The Quran gave us a few examples of many wives

        a) The wife of Pharaoh, a good wife to a bad man
        b) The wife of Lut, a bad wife to a good man
        c) The wife of Noah, a bad wife to a good man

        Those wives were not dragged with their husbands, especially the wife of the vefry rich Pharaoh, so were exactly that law of a wife been dragged with her husband?

        I don't really understand why people cause this confusion

        Salam

        Walaikum Salaam

        The wife of Abu Lahab .. a bad wife of a bad man.

        Both of them were famous opponents and arch enemies of the Prophet (pbuh), even though to the best of my knowledge, Abu Lahab was the Prophet's uncle.

        Peace ..

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          unknownuser
          wrote on last edited by
          #38

          Salam

          For those who promote that Abu Lahab is a nothing but a symbol of a rich man, then i have to ask why the wife of that rich man must be condemned as well?

          Some suggested that the wives will be dragged along with their husbands, but hold on a sec

          1. Did the the sura suggested that the wife will be dragged with that bad man and therefore she must be condemned as well?, NEVER EVER

          2. The Quran gave us a few examples of many wives

          a) The wife of Pharaoh, a good wife to a bad man
          b) The wife of Lut, a bad wife to a good man
          c) The wife of Noah, a bad wife to a good man

          Those wives were not dragged with their husbands, especially the wife of the vefry rich Pharaoh, so were exactly that law of a wife been dragged with her husband?

          I don't really understand why people cause this confusion

          Salam

          Walaikum Salaam

          The wife of Abu Lahab .. a bad wife of a bad man.

          Both of them were famous opponents and arch enemies of the Prophet (pbuh), even though to the best of my knowledge, Abu Lahab was the Prophet's uncle.

          Peace ..

          Thank you sister, I was going to add it in my comment but thought that i can't because this is the disputed one, but I totally agree with you, in fact the Quran also gave us a general example for a good wife to a good man

          Yes, Abu Lahab was the prophet Uncle

          Peace

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            phoenix1
            wrote on last edited by
            #39

            peace Ahmed,

            the reason Abu Lahab's wife will be condemned to hell is because she helps him do whatever he does. She is guilty too. Read the surah again, and see if the wife is really innocent.

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              unknownuser
              wrote on last edited by
              #40

              peace Ahmed,

              the reason Abu Lahab's wife will be condemned to hell is because she helps him do whatever he does. She is guilty too. Read the surah again, and see if the wife is really innocent.

              Mate

              are they real or not, this is the question, after that we can discuss your evidence and mine

              i say they were real

              how about you?

              Peace

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                CavemanDoctor
                wrote on last edited by
                #41

                I wonder, what difference does it make if they were real or not. Do we benefit from knowing that?

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                  phoenix1
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #42

                  peace Ahmed,

                  i don't really care whether they were real or not. Going by the Quranic lesson of verification, i would need clear proof of their existence to believe they were real. But it really doesn't matter. here's why
                  If we take the surah to be just a story, then we might need to prove them real. If we take it to be a story with a purpose, a lesson or moral for us, then it doesn't matter.
                  Because that person in the story, whether real or not, is used as an example. That example, and what we learn from it, is what's important. Not whether the person really lived or not.

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                    TheNabi
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #43

                    Peace

                    I find the benefit in the position these characters (or archetypes) exemplify. The story illustrates such wisdom as these 6/165; 9/34-35; 34/11; 40/29, 79-81; 63/9-10; 92/17-18

                    I feel if you take them as historical figures the teaching herein is not lost. I think it may be ignored if too much attention is held on the historical proof or biography of such people. Their mention in this context is meant to convey to the reader a particular idea or set of ideas.

                    Joe

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                      kassana
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #44

                      After careful thinking. I feel the story of Abu Lahab is true and it is what it is. A factual account of The Prophets uncle - however it is not necessary to disgress into so much, as for it's time it was the story of abu lahab and his account, albeit it is short. The beauty of the Quran is that it is for all time, therefore after a period of time, it still serves it's purpose as an account of Abu Lahab but not necessarily in a historical context, it becomes allegorical. So from an allegorical perspective it becomes just as relevant.

                      A good example is the story of Yusuf in surah yusuf and moses and his travels, yes they're factual but what purpose did they serve as in the time of the prophet,because there wasn't any historical relevance for it in the Prophets time?It served as an allegorical device. So, I think stories in the Quran are temporal devices that are relevant throughout the ages.

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                      • WakasW Offline
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                        Wakas
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #45

                        peace all,

                        "abu lahab" literally means "father (of) flame" in Arabic. This is solid.

                        Theoretically, it could mean a proper name but equally it may not be.

                        As brother Joe said, I believe it is an archetype.

                        Furthermore, the God discourages use of nicnames (cant remember the ayat/sign off-hand), thus it is highly unlikely He uses a nicname ("abu lahab&quot as this was not the real name of the so-called prophet Muhammad's uncle.

                        This has been discussed before, please use the search function.

                        Also, the I believe the Arabic word used for rope means an entwined rope, which may be symbolic of the relationship between the fuel and the fire, as has been mentioned by others in this thread.

                        Wakas

                        All information is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should always seek knowledge and verify for themselves when possible: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11.

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                          viartualeye
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #46

                          Both of them were famous opponents and arch enemies of the Prophet (pbuh), even though to the best of my knowledge, Abu Lahab was the Prophet's uncle.

                          Peace ..

                          Which knowledge? are you Quran only believer? where is it written in quran that AbLahab was enemy of prophet(SAW)? Whe is it written that he had direct relation with prophet(SAW)? and where is it written that he was Prophet's Uncle?

                          VE

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                            viartualeye
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #47

                            This is a very good TOOL, that if you dont understand the real context of the Surah/verse directly condemning and cursing a person,,, then just refer to the rest of Quran as generally telling what is wrong and write. Very interesting. )

                            All the subjective stories in Quran have been mentioned in detail as
                            Who was a subjected person.
                            What did he do
                            what he did not do
                            For what reason he was rewarded or cursed.

                            Then how come this person AbuLahab is directly being cursed fromt the start of surah?

                            Anyway I think my arguments here are of no use. You people can do anything and give any rubbish logics to get rid of any historical and/or Ahadith knowledge. You people have changed the meaning of each and every verse of Quran just to justify that we dont need any additional knowledge. I assume if your motive is true then you must not have even learned any language from your parents and Allah would have revealed all the TRUTH on you directly,,,,because as you people think that Allah guides us directly if we want. I assume then Allah would have revealed the Holy text on each of you, because you would only be independant of the secondary knowledge if Allah had directly tought the language of Quran to you without any secondary source like your secondary knowledge, language and historical knowhow.

                            I hereby quit this discussion considering that I am not enough to answer a dozen people just alone myself.

                            VE

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                              arnoldyasin
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #48

                              Peace,

                              Quote
                              All the subjective stories in Quran have been mentioned in detail as
                              Who was a subjected person.
                              What did he do
                              what he did not do
                              For what reason he was rewarded or cursed.

                              So you agree with us, that all persons in the Quran mentioned, also why they're examples is mentioned fully detailed?

                              Quote
                              Then how come this person AbuLahab is directly being cursed fromt the start of surah?

                              Maybe then to answer this question, is the fact that it is not a person from history, but a metaphor....

                              This logical and based on the examples of other verses throughout the Quran. So we change meanings? Maybe the tradition has done that? Ever thought of that?......

                              Plus, again you show, that you don't use your arguments on yourself. A couple of topics ago, you complained every time, you waisted so much time on writing an answer to somebody, and then the person would, as you say; just say that doesn't apply to me, as i don't follow hadith. You condemned this behaviour. Now every time you do it yourself. Pushing it away, with the exact same arguments as the persons you condemned of waisting your time on. Ignoring questions in responses to you, giving superficial answers or start calling names, OR WRITING QUICK REMARKS IN BIG LETTERS TO SHOW HOW GOOD YOU'RE IN BEING A PATIENT MUSLIM. It seems we waist our time on you...

                              Peace

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                                unknownuser
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #49

                                Peace be upon you Caveman Doctor,

                                If taken a bit more literally, we see the mention of Fire/Hell/Blaze, and that the female is the carrier of logs. She will be carrying these logs as fuel for the aforementioned Fire/Hell/Blaze.<<<

                                Yes, I agree. I forgot to comment on the logs which are an obvious symbolism for fueling the fire. And again, on the psychological level, it is the verbal thoughts that bring for the VISION(imagination) that fuels the emotions. All one need to do is sit back and pay attention to what goes on in thier minds in the course of a day. In the oldest recorded religious philosophy, the imagination was called "Het Heru", and it is stated that the Imagination is that which stimulates RA. RA, which was incorrectly translated by Westerners as "sun God" really refers to the Life Force (Chi/kundalini/biokenetic energy/ etc.) So indeed this message is a confirmation of what came before it.

                                Taken in this vein, I think the verse shows how people's actions reinforce each other's. The male was one who, like Joe mentioned, let his wealth/property dictate his life; and what did the female do? Did she urge him against this mindset of taking his wealth as an ilah? No, to the contrary, she supported and reinforced his actions, she "carried the logs." She made his actions seem pleasing to him by approving and by taking part. To use a common English idiom, she added fuel to the fire.

                                I agree that this is what happens in life, but I dont follow the verse that literal because it would make the woman the antagonist like the biblical story of Eve "forcing" Adam to eat the apple. I disagree with blaming the woman literally, and thats what the story would mean if the God uses a literal woman for the example. Same way I dont take ALL MALE messengers as example that only men deliver God's Truth to mankind. A woman has a mouth and wisdom as well. Certianly there are men who fuel women and men who fuel other men.

                                Also, see 4125 as a cross-reference
                                "We assign to them companions who adorn everything they do in their eyes. Thus, they end up incurring the same fate as the previous communities of jinns and humans, who were also losers."

                                Yes, humans have the compainions of the hidden thoughts and images which direct the emotions.

                                As for the rope around her neck, the context of the surah, as we have discussed, seems intimately tied to hands/wealth/property. We see another verse in the Qur'an that not only relates to hands/wealth/property but also ties that concept to the neck. The verse is 1729

                                "You shall not keep your hand stingily tied to your neck, nor shall you foolishly open it up, lest you end up blamed and sorry."

                                The surrounding verses make it clear that the verse is referring to miserly actions and greed. Perhaps the "rope of thorns" that goes around this person's neck, the neck of a person who took property/wealth as an ilah, represents the symbolic punishment the soul will receive. Just as the Qur'an mentions one's hand tied around the neck, thus cutting off circulation and keeping one's soul stagnant, the rope of thorns tied to the neck is its eternal counterpart. The rope of thorns will cut off circulation to the soul in the Hereafter, thereby preventing once again the soul-growth of the person for eternity. One may call this soul-stagnation "Hell."

                                Good observation in regards to verse 1729!

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                                  unknownuser
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #50

                                  peace Ahmed,

                                  Peace mate,

                                  i don't really care whether they were real or not.

                                  It is not a matter of caring of being real or not, it is matter of what hard core evidences they have to provide from the Quran that Abu lahab is nothing but a parable

                                  There is only one indirect lesson from the story of Abu Lahab, it is simply

                                  His wealth and what he earns will not avail him

                                  -> There is no need to dedicate a whole surah for that obvious lesson that was told to us directly many times in the Quran, in fact I have a surprise for those who claim that Abu Lahab story is nothing but a parable to teach us the above and only lesson (1112) in the whole sura 111.

                                  ALLAH GAVE US A LONG PARABLE SAYING THE EXACT SAME AND INDEED HE TOLD US ?HERE IS A PARABLE? IN ADVANCE

                                  32 And set forth to them a parable of two men; for one of them We made two gardens of grape vines, and We surrounded them both with palms, and in the midst of them We made cornfields.

                                  33 Both these gardens yielded their fruits, and failed not aught thereof, and We caused a river to gush forth in their midst,

                                  34 And he possessed much wealth; so he said to his companion, while he disputed with him I have greater wealth than you, and am mightier in followers.

                                  35 And he entered his garden while he was unjust to himself. He said I do not think that this will ever perish

                                  36 And I do not think the hour will come, and even if I am returned to my Lord I will most certainly find a returning place better than this.

                                  37 His companion said to him while disputing with him Do you disbelieve in Him Who created you from dust, then from a small seed, then He made you a perfect man?

                                  38 But as for me, He, Allah, is my Lord, and I do not associate anyone with my Lord.

                                  39 And wherefore did you not say when you entered your garden It is as Allah has pleased, there is no power save in Allah? If you consider me to be inferior to you in wealth and children,

                                  40 Then maybe my Lord will give me what is better than your garden, and send on it a thunderbolt from heaven so that it shall become even ground without plant,

                                  41 Or its waters should sink down into the ground so that you are unable to find it.

                                  42 And his wealth was destroyed; so he began to wring his hands for what he had spent on it, while it lay, having fallen down upon its roofs, and he said Ah me! would that I had not associated anyone with my Lord.

                                  43 And he had no host to help him besides Allah nor could he defend himself.

                                  44 Here is protection only Allah's, the True One; He is best in (the giving of) reward and best in requiting.

                                  (32)
                                  (33)
                                  (34)
                                  (35)
                                  (36)
                                  (37)
                                  (3
                                  (39)
                                  (40)
                                  (41)
                                  (42)
                                  (43)
                                  (44)

                                  -> What can I say?, hmmm, well the Quran keeps refuting the ones who are Quran ignorant, this makes great sense to me, let?s look again at what I just said in bold? the Quran keeps refuting the ones who are Quran ignorant?, now let me walk you through the parable then see if the allegation against sura 111 deserves a slam dunk.

                                  -> Verse 32, clearly Allah is giving us a PARABLE ?And set forth to them a parable of two men?; see how clear Allah is?, a parable of two MEN, can you also see how the two men were anonymous in the parable?, one was rich and the other was not ?for one of them We made two gardens of grape vines, and We surrounded them both with palms, and in the midst of them We made cornfields.?

                                  -> Verse 33, the rich man had a very comfy life?Both these gardens yielded their fruits, and failed not aught thereof, and We caused a river to gush forth in their midst,?, but did the rich man realize that the Rizq (Favours) he had was from Allah?, I don?t think so, it seems you can guess what the parable is all about before reading it complete with ease.

                                  -> Verse 34, the rich man was really proud of his wealth and was showing it of ?And he possessed much wealth; so he said to his companion, while he disputed with him I have greater wealth than you, and am mightier in followers.

                                  -> Verse35, the rich and unjust man thought that these favours will never perish ?And he entered his garden while he was unjust to himself. He said I do not think that this will ever perish?

                                  -> Verse 36, the rich man was an unbeliever as the parable is put to us by Allah?And I do not think the hour will come, and even if I am returned to my Lord I will most certainly find a returning place better than this., I have to say to the rich man, dream on

                                  -> Verse 37, the other man (the poor) said to the rich man ? His companion said to him while disputing with him Do you disbelieve in Him Who created you from dust, then from a small seed, then He made you a perfect man? ?, I guess he was trying to help the rich man to drop his arrogance and ego in order to follow the right path.

                                  -> Verse 38, the parable also told us that the poor man declared his belief in Allah ?But as for me, He, Allah, is my Lord, and I do not associate anyone with my Lord.?

                                  -> verse 39, he even advised the rich man in what to say when feeling the joy and pride due to his wealth?And wherefore did you not say when you entered your garden It is as Allah has pleased, there is no power save in Allah?, then he told him that despite he has less wealth than him? If you consider me to be inferior to you in wealth and children,?, that Allah?s reward to him may be far better than his

                                  -> Verse 40, ?Then maybe my Lord will give me what is better than your garden,?, then he even CURSED the rich man and asked Allah to remove the wealth from him, exactly as Noah cursed his people? and send on it a thunderbolt from heaven so that it (the two gardens) shall become even ground without plant,?

                                  -> Verse 41, the curse continued ?Or its waters should sink down into the ground so that you are unable to find it.?

                                  -> Verse 42, and when his wealth was destroyed the rich realized his mistake? And his wealth was destroyed; so he began to wring his hands for what he had spent on it, while it lay, having fallen down upon its roofs, and he said Ah me! would that I had not associated anyone with my Lord. ?, he lost all the money he spent on his gardens as well.

                                  -> Verses 43,44 and the final lesson of the parable ? And he had no host to help him besides Allah nor could he defend himself.?, ?Here is protection only Allah's, the True One; He is best in (the giving of) reward and best in requiting.?

                                  To be continued....

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                                    unknownuser
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #51

                                    Now we have a serious problem for those who promote that Abu Lahab was not a real man but a symbol, ?A Parable?, they need to consider the following questions

                                    Why Allah didn?t say in sura 111,? Here is a parable? as He did in 1832?, would it be that it is a clear cut guess on their end to say that sura 111 is a parable and Allah clearly didn?t say that?

                                    Why Allah called Abu Lahab with name Abu Lahab and in here the two men mentioned in the parable were anonymous?

                                    There was no mention to the wives of the rich man and the poor man in the above parable which is almost identical to the alleged parable in sura 111, why is that?

                                    In the above clear parable, it was clear that Allah told us that the anonymous rich man was UNBELIEVER, however in sura 111 there is absolutely nothing to suggest that Abu Lahab was an unbeliever neither a bad man in both 1111 and 111;2 , so why he was condemned in 1113?

                                    In 1114 about his wife, I can?t see anything wrong regarding his wife carrying logs , what is wrong with that for her to be condemned in 1115, the end of the sura?

                                    There is no question that they were real people who lived during the time of the prophet and for some rookies to come and suggest something else that contradict what is well established through the history, is nothing but saying things about Allah that is not true because Allah talked to us directly about those two in sura 111, this is exactly when they say that sura 111 is a metaphor while clearly we see in the Quran that Allah always tells us ?Here is a metaphor?, their fatal mistake ?saying that Allah means a parable with sura 111? is warned against in the Quran, let?s look at the following verses

                                    74- Invent not similitudes for Allah for Allah knoweth, and ye know not.

                                    75- Allah sets forth a parable (consider) a slave, the property of another, (who) has no power over anything, and one whom We have granted from Ourselves a goodly sustenance so he spends from it secretly and openly; are the two alike? (All) praise is due to Allah! Nay, most of them do not know.

                                    76- And Allah sets forth a parable of two men; one of them is dumb, not able to do anything, and he is a burden to his master; wherever he sends him, he brings no good; can he be held equal with him who enjoins what is just, and he (himself) is on the right path?

                                    (74)
                                    (75)
                                    (76)

                                    -> Clear from the 1674 that Allah is warning us from ? Invent not similitudes for Allah for Allah knoweth, and ye know not.?, this is clear that Allah is telling us not to invent parables and associated to Him, some may say that the warning is against making parables about Allah Himself, I say, sorry it can?t be because He already told us that THERE IS NOTHING LIKE HIM, and the warning in 1674 has to be against associating invented parables to Him, because in the very next verse 1675, He gave us a parable ? Allah sets forth a parable (consider) a slave??.?, and again in 1676 Allah sets forth another parable ? And Allah sets forth a parable of two men;???, see, how the slave and the two men in both parables were anonymous?, and how clearly Allah told us that ?Here is a parable? straight after warning us from inventing parables and associating it to Him?, this warning is for those who say sura 111 is a parable, their ego and arrogance made them so blind not to see those clear facts including that Allah never told us in advance that sura 111 is a parable, their logic regarding the matter of Abu Lahab, lacks merit, Quran understanding, and most importantly the common sense if the simple fact that sura 111 never suggested that Abu Lahab or his wife were bad humans is considered by them, well, what they also have to consider along with 1674-76, is 16105

                                    Only they invent falsehood who believe not Allah's revelations, and (only) they are the liars.

                                    (105)

                                    Going by the Quranic lesson of verification, i would need clear proof of their existence to believe they were real.

                                    1. Allah never told us in sura 111 ?Here is a parable?
                                    2. There was no indication in sura 111 that Abu Lahab and his wife were bad people to be condemned.
                                    3. Comparing the alleged parable with the same parable in 1832-44, makes it very clear that sura 111 is not a parable.

                                    But it really doesn't matter.

                                    If it does not matter then the ones who started promoting this non sense should explain to us why it was important for them to promote it 1400 years after?, the old man said if it ain?t break don?t fix it, now how considering that Abu Lahab and his wife were real people can be considered a broken faith by the traditionists?

                                    For the other millions who believe that Abu Lahab and his wife were real people, it matters because, those who promote this non sense are saying indirectly that those millions are dumb deaf and blind, which I agree it is a possibility but only if they can prove their case using the Quran, now those dumb millions whom I belong to them can easily slam dunk this alleged and non sensible claim using the Quran as I just did with the help of Allah.

                                    here's why
                                    If we take the surah to be just a story, then we might need to prove them real. If we take it to be a story with a purpose, a lesson or moral for us, then it doesn't matter.

                                    Bro, that put a smile on my face, but thanks for your go at it, based on your logic then we have to prove all other stories mentioned in the Quran are real, in addition we will need to prove that Allah is real because Allah is another story mentioned in the Quran, thanks for the insight bro I can?t prove that Allah is real though, I can only believe that He is real and I can only believe in what He tells me in the Quran that is 100% real. Even when it is a parable I have to believe 100% that it is a parable. And this is still considered real because the reality is to consider a clear cut parable as a parable.

                                    Because that person in the story, whether real or not, is used as an example.

                                    See, if it ain?t break, don?t fix it

                                    That example, and what we learn from it, is what's important. Not whether the person really lived or not.

                                    Well, you may have a word with the ones who came 1400 years after and say they were not real

                                    Cheers

                                    I feel if you take them as historical figures the teaching herein is not lost. I think it may be ignored if too much attention is held on the historical proof or biography of such people. Their mention in this context is meant to convey to the reader a particular idea or set of ideas.
                                    Joe

                                    Peace Joe

                                    I guess you may also have a word with the ones who started this allegation that they were not real 1400 years after it was established, and please help me out in understanding the importance of it if I have to know that they were not real

                                    Salam all

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                                      viartualeye
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #52

                                      The matter is that they are stucked in their own trap. They dont have any means to explain who was AbuLahab and what did he do.
                                      To find out what wrong he did, they refer to see the rest of Quran, This is rediculous.

                                      To further add, I would ask what is the meaning of the following verses

                                      002.065
                                      002.065 And well ye knew those amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath We said to them "Be ye apes, despised and rejected."

                                      002.066
                                      002.066 So We made it an example to their own time and to their posterity, and a lesson to those who fear Allah.

                                      Al-Qur'an, 002.065-066 (Al-Baqara )

                                      Secondly explain following
                                      Allah is saying that you already know. Which means Prophet had to rely on the historical knowledge, thats why he knew and thats why Allah is saying that you already know.

                                      I will start a new thread with a more strong question. So be ready with some real reason, and not Greek Philosophies to just try to justfy your thoughts in any case. Like it is said that in love and war everthing is allowed, So please don use Rubbish argumments, Please.................

                                      VirtualEye.

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                                        mquran
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #53

                                        VE The matter is that they are stucked in their own trap. They dont have any means to explain who was AbuLahab and what did he do.
                                        To find out what wrong he did, they refer to see the rest of Quran, This is rediculous.

                                        Ridiculous to you, sure because you have rejected al-quraan. Al-quraan clearly calls itself 'ahsanal hadith kitaaban mutashabihan mathany' (the best news/narration , a book with similarities repeated&#039. Therefore, to understand al-quraan, one would do well to refer to other parts of it. Abu Lahab is simply in arabic as 'the father of the flame'. One doesn't need to refer to hadith/sunna/seera in order to get more detail of the man. Rather , one needs to appropriate his lesson. It's sad that sunnis treat al-quraan as if it was a book of history.

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                                          viartualeye
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #54

                                          VE The matter is that they are stucked in their own trap. They dont have any means to explain who was AbuLahab and what did he do.
                                          To find out what wrong he did, they refer to see the rest of Quran, This is rediculous.

                                          Ridiculous to you, sure because you have rejected al-quraan. Al-quraan clearly calls itself 'ahsanal hadith kitaaban mutashabihan mathany' (the best news/narration , a book with similarities repeated&#039. Therefore, to understand al-quraan, one would do well to refer to other parts of it. Abu Lahab is simply in arabic as 'the father of the flame'. One doesn't need to refer to hadith/sunna/seera in order to get more detail of the man. Rather , one needs to appropriate his lesson. It's sad that sunnis treat al-quraan as if it was a book of history.

                                          Certainly one would refer to other parts of quran to understand over all. But with some starting point or clue....
                                          Its not like that ,,,when you dont understand a single thing who was AbuLahab and what did he do....you just say read rest of Quran.

                                          For instance , If I write a book and I write an article "A", I explain something for some purpose, I have include some article for some reason, I will not say "Read the rest of book and this article is just extra without any reason. So you can read the rest of book to get expertise" ..................Certainly the read will ask me, then what the hell is this article doing in your book if it just refers to the rest of book.

                                          To make you more comfortable... I ask

                                          WHAT IS SPECIAL IN THAT SURAH IF WE HAVE TO JUST ASSUME THAT WE SHOULD JUST READ REST OF QURAN.???
                                          ALLAH REVEALED ALL THE MESSAGE TELLING EACH AND EVERYTHING IN DIFFERNT WAYS,,,THEN HE INCLUDED AN EXTRA SURAH WHICH ITSELF HAS NOT MEANING???

                                          VirtualEye.

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