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  4. Veil in Saudi Arabia-- Do You Find This Interesting?

Veil in Saudi Arabia-- Do You Find This Interesting?

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    TAJ
    wrote on last edited by
    #27

    Peace S2S,

    We are settlers now, have been for a looong time. We don't live in tents but in houses built with concrete! However, some of the traditions remain.

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      TAJ
      wrote on last edited by
      #28

      As Salaam Alaikum NP

      As Salaam Alaikum TAJ,

      In my response to you I wrote that I never met a woman or heard of one who would use anything on her face for the purpose of "hiding her nose while adding emphasis on the eyes"! Especially when there is nothing not beautiful with their noses. Have you met any woman who does that for that purpose?

      Let's remember that this is Arabian culture, not another. It is no myth that Arabs have been known for the covering of their face. Therefore while it may be something taboo in some places, it may very well be another everday accesory in the deserts of Arabia.

      Come on, plenty of us have this illusion of sex when it comes to women covering their faces.

      salaam

      I think that the burqa3, niqab, etc.. was originally (I mean something like thousands of years ago) invented for environmental reasons,, to protect the face from the sand storms and the generally harsh weather here especially with lack of water.
      Another big reason, I think, is because of the bad way (most) men here view women, and so they make their women cover their faces in order not to be recognized by other men, so to conceal their identity,, as they cannot stand that another man is looking at their women (their possession). It is rigidity and possessiveness and not for religion reasons. Also many men think that having a daughter, a girl born to them is a disgrace they would rather hide.. so it is as if when the girl is not seen (her face as identity is not showing) then she does not exist.

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        TAJ
        wrote on last edited by
        #29

        Peace Arnold,

        1. The <Zeena> of a woman is identified in the same verse when GOD commands her to ?cover? her Zeena which is the <Jayb>.
          <JAYB> in Arabic is used for any opening with TWO sides to it. Thus for the body of a woman, the <Jayb> would be the area of the breasts, the area under the arms, the vagina area <Farj> as well as the hands, feet, nose, mouth and
          ears. It is incorrect to define <Jayb> as merely the breasts of a woman since that will lead to a wrong understanding of the minimum dress-code requirements (i.e the woman can cover her breasts and walk around naked revealing everything else).

        The area of the head (mouth, ears, nose) as well as the feet and hands all fall under the EXCEPTION to being covered which is mentioned as <Ma Zahar> in the same verse. <Ma Zahar> is literally translated as "that which protrudes", thus the limbs (head, feet and hands) are all protruding <Zahar> from the body and therefore are exempt from having their <Zeena> which is the <Jayb> from being covered.
        It is worth noting that a woman's stomach and back are NOT part of the <Zeena> and can be revealed if one wished to do so with no implications of "Right" or "Wrong".
        It is upto the believing women to ensure that all these areas known as <Zeena> are covered and not revealed to anyone except 1. Husband, 2. Father, 3. Husband?s Father, 4. Son, 5. Husband?s Son, 6. Brother, 7. Brother?s Son, 8. Sister?s Son.
        Some people may think that this allows a woman to appear entirely naked in front of the above list. The answer to that is ?yes?, it is not from the Halal or Haram if this happens, but it will be modesty and cultural norms that make this concept peculiar.

        It is CRITICAL to note that the list of men to whom a woman can reveal her <Zeena> does NOT include her (Uncle, Son from Suckling, Brother from Suckling, Mother?s Husband, Daughter?s Husband and Sister?s Husband) EVEN THOUGHT these people are "Mahram's" whom she is forbidden from marrying (see sura # 4 for the full "Mahram" list).
        This new understanding implies that some men may still have a sexual drive or desire for a woman even though they are her "Mahram's" which she is forbidden from marrying. Thus she is NOT to reveal her <Zeena> in their presence.

        This understanding of <Zeena> will force most Fiqh scholars to re-examine their understanding that the <Zeena> is merely ornaments or make-up, but it is something much more which only a limited few are allowed to see (or else the Mahram?s in Sura # 4 must never see a woman if she has make-up or jewelry on).
        4) The next word for those who may see a woman?s <Zeena> is described by the word <NISAUHUN>.
        This word has been mistakenly understood to be ?women?, whereas the word <Nisa?a> can also be used for ?those who came later? <Nasee?a>. This word covers all those who come later on such as Son?s Son, Grandchildren, Son?s, Son of Brother, Son?s Son of Sister (i.e. all those who come from the seed of the people allowed to see the woman?s Zeena).

        Is that quote from Sha7roor's book, or is it your understanding?

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          unknownuser
          wrote on last edited by
          #30

          Sha7roor's book rotfl

          would that be mister Sha7roor? O0

          I don't know, but he looks like him (they both have the same hair cut)

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            unknownuser
            wrote on last edited by
            #31

            It seems Sha7roor is a real person

            sorry Taj, i thought it was a good joke by you, LOL

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              arnoldyasin
              wrote on last edited by
              #32

              Peace,

              TAJ, it is a quote from Shahroor's book, i'm still investigating his understandings, but i find them intruiging, that is why i posted them...

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                Elke
                wrote on last edited by
                #33

                Peace

                i've read them before on this forum and find them very interesting and logical.

                arnold,

                please give us your conclusions after your verification - which wil be on the exact meaning of arab words i guess ?

                lk

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                  arnoldyasin
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #34

                  arabic? what is that? O0

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                    unknownuser
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #35

                    arabic? what is that? O0

                    LOL

                    he looks funny though, Sudanease possibly

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                      Elke
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #36

                      arnold,

                      this is not the first time i wanted to tell you that, but this time i do...

                      i love you !

                      but don't ask me why

                      lk

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                        arnoldyasin
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #37

                        I love myself tooooooo..............but also i don't know why..........

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                          TAJ
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #38

                          Peace Ahmed,

                          Muhammah Shar7roor is a real person. He basically is trying to reinterpret Al Quran by creating a whole new meaning to the Arabic words. He is very entertaining in his TV interviews and has a great sense of humor, but you wouldn't see any body who is knowledgeable in Arabic language buying his talk!

                          It seems Sha7roor is a real person

                          sorry Taj, i thought it was a good joke by you, LOL

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                            TAJ
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #39

                            Peace Arnold,

                            Peace,
                            TAJ, it is a quote from Shahroor's book, i'm still investigating his understandings, but i find them intruiging, that is why i posted them...

                            arabic? what is that? O0

                            The <Zeena> of a woman is identified in the same verse when GOD commands her to ?cover? her Zeena which is the <Jayb>.
                            <JAYB> in Arabic is used for any opening with TWO sides to it. Thus for the body of a woman, the <Jayb> would be the area of the breasts, the area under the arms, the vagina area <Farj> as well as the hands, feet, nose, mouth and
                            ears. It is incorrect to define <Jayb> as merely the breasts of a woman since that will lead to a wrong understanding of the minimum dress-code requirements (i.e the woman can cover her breasts and walk around naked revealing everything else).

                            From which Arabic dictionary did Shahroor bring that the Jayb means the Zeenah? Those two words have a completely different meaning.

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                              arnoldyasin
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #40

                              Why do you think i was still investigating it......

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                                TAJ
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #41

                                Why do you think i was still investigating it......

                                What have you found so far?

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                                  unknownuser
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #42

                                  Peace Ahmed,

                                  Muhammah Shar7roor is a real person. He basically is trying to reinterpret Al Quran by creating a whole new meaning to the Arabic words. He is very entertaining in his TV interviews and has a great sense of humor, but you wouldn't see any body who is knowledgeable in Arabic language buying his talk!

                                  It seems Sha7roor is a real person

                                  sorry Taj, i thought it was a good joke by you, LOL

                                  Thank you sister

                                  i must check him out, i never heard of him actually

                                  does he have a web site?

                                  cheers

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                                    trn567765
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #43

                                    i have spoken to many women who wear the veil and most say they wear it because they choose to. to protect themselves from mens thoughts. most people believe women are forced to but women are not they wear it proudly.

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                                      TAJ
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #44

                                      Peace Trn,

                                      i have spoken to many women who wear the veil and most say they wear it because they choose to. to protect themselves from mens thoughts. most people believe women are forced to but women are not they wear it proudly.

                                      I love my veil. It does a wondrous job in protecting me from the harsh weather! But to protect me from men's thoughts... mm..?
                                      What some men think of women is really their problem not ours and I am not here to slove it or make it easier for them.. However, if a man is thinking "something" about me and then I would sense it in his behaviour.. I then would just avoid any possible direct contact with such person, not only by the veil, as that won't stop him, but by avoiding being in his way altogether, especially when you know that it is not just my body and face but also because my voice and my way of talking can be very attractive too, as well as my aura, all parts of me that I cannot cover or change!

                                      Proud of wearing the veil? All women should be proud of themselves with or without veil. Pride, by itself, is a great wall/hijab against lusty, mischievous men. A proud woman would never allow a man to take the wrong step towards her.

                                      And,, welcome to the forum, Trn )

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                                        unknownuser
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #45

                                        Salam AhmedBahgat, all,

                                        Peace Ahmed,

                                        Muhammah Shar7roor is a real person. He basically is trying to reinterpret Al Quran by creating a whole new meaning to the Arabic words. He is very entertaining in his TV interviews and has a great sense of humor, but you wouldn't see any body who is knowledgeable in Arabic language buying his talk!

                                        It seems Sha7roor is a real person

                                        sorry Taj, i thought it was a good joke by you, LOL

                                        Thank you sister

                                        i must check him out, i never heard of him actually

                                        does he have a web site?

                                        cheers

                                        Dr. Shahrour is the best of the best!-) I had a chance to talk to him on phone last year when I was working with a team translating his book, he is cool, open, and I like a lot his objectivity. I haven't seen him once having that language on "sects" and what each group is doing (the labeling habit that most of people have when they want to refute other schools of thought). He has a website www.shahrour.org.

                                        HOpe the above helps.
                                        Peace. Myr.

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                                          TAJ
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #46

                                          Peace Myr, All

                                          Muhammah Shar7roor is a real person. He basically is trying to reinterpret Al Quran by creating a whole new meaning to the Arabic words. He is very entertaining in his TV interviews and has a great sense of humor, but you wouldn't see any body who is knowledgeable in Arabic language buying his talk!

                                          Dr. Shahrour is the best of the best!-) I had a chance to talk to him on phone last year when I was working with a team translating his book, he is cool, open, and I like a lot his objectivity. I haven't seen him once having that language on "sects" and what each group is doing (the labeling habit that most of people have when they want to refute other schools of thought).

                                          He is cool alright and so much fun to watch as he has a charming personality that would carry you awayyyyyyy
                                          but if you try to verify it you would find that some (and some is enough) of what he says is baseless; not found in any Arabic dictionaries.. that's all.. I love Shahroor but, for the love of Allah, I can't buy what Shahroor says.

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