who is a messenger of God?
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Peace,
Layth, have you changed your position or something? I remember you rejecting Shareef/Genuine-Islam's messengership as you believed no further messengers are coming?
I have never held the view that there would be no more messengers after Mohammed...From my reading of the Scripture, it is a certainty to continue until J-day.
As for Shareef, I rejected his claims because all that he said contradicted the guidelines that were give to us by God...His claim was centered around himself and people acknowledging him rather than focussing on God Alone which is what a true messenger would convey...His attitude/arrogance did not convey God's teachings...Hie did not even know who he was supposed to be a messenger to (was it to the arabs, to the english, to his people, etc..)...Shareef is delusional at best, mentally disturbed at worst.
I clarify this Last Massenger belief to MQuran in the past. Qur'an is the last book of Allah and there will be no more revelations (wahi) will be send once this book is completed. Please refer to 5101 this is the verse which make me come to this definate conclusion.
Messengers do not bring revelations/wahi, they simply reinforce that which is already delivered...It is Prophets who bring wahi/revelations...Thus, all Prophets are messengers, but not all messengers are Prophets.
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Peace be upon you KGB,
What you said is your understanding? How you do translate the word "Seal"?
A seal is something that is penetrated by those who reach the level of "muhammadun" in order to INTUIT Divine Wisdom. The God uses another word all over this book to describe the concept of END/LAST. Why would the concept of a LAST/FINAL messenger use a different word? Please do not respond just to protect what you were taught (as most of us where taught the same thing), but refelct deeply on this.
People have mistranslated the words of Qur'an in the past and there are people now who translate words of Qur'an to promote their own ideas and promote their own agenda.
Correct, so why do you follow what you were taught so readily? Where is your critical reasoning brother?
I try to do what I am commanded to do by Allah (SWT). Following is one of the verse which command us to honor Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him).
I am glad you gave Allah at least the same veneration that you gave Muhammad this time, but you must take a look at yourself and ask WHY you were in that position to be corrected. We must always inspect ourselves and our ideas. Do not take what is being said here as an attack on you, many of us have been here for many years going through the same process you are going through. After a while, these generic answers will weigh on your conscious and you will look for something more substancial.
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Peace,
Layth, have you changed your position or something? I remember you rejecting Shareef/Genuine-Islam's messengership as you believed no further messengers are coming?
I have never held the view that there would be no more messengers after Mohammed...From my reading of the Scripture, it is a certainty to continue until J-day.
As for Shareef, I rejected his claims because all that he said contradicted the guidelines that were give to us by God...His claim was centered around himself and people acknowledging him rather than focussing on God Alone which is what a true messenger would convey...His attitude/arrogance did not convey God's teachings...Hie did not even know who he was supposed to be a messenger to (was it to the arabs, to the english, to his people, etc..)...Shareef is delusional at best, mentally disturbed at worst.
Peace
Shareef attitude was excatly the same the people who claim to be Messanger of Allah (SWT). Mirza Ghulam Ahmed claims are absurd, he was arrogant, his all wahi were related to money and women, he used abusive language for people who do not believe in his messangership, he was self centered. He was mentally distrubed as well. His claims that Allah (SWT) has changed the centre from Mecca to Quadian. Latest Rashad Al Khalifah, self centred, arrogant, manipulator.
There are other as well like Ismailis Aga Khan, Bohris Syedna Buhran uddin which are religious corporations for making money.
Messengers do not bring revelations/wahi, they simply reinforce that which is already delivered...It is Prophets who bring wahi/revelations...Thus, all Prophets are messengers, but not all messengers are Prophets.
This is good interpretation. I don't disagree with this. I did not meet anyone who is a true messanger of Allah (SWT) and the chances are and I never will by looking at the examples of people who claimed to be the messager after Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him). So our discusssion concluded with this post. Thank you again Layth.
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Peace be upon you Kyle
LOL. You will not change. You see the clear message and try to make it complicated with your twised logic. Do you have Phd in Arabic? I know that you are not an Arab so you must have alteast Phd degree to read understand and do the interpretation of Qur'an verses.
I explained this "seal" too somewhere on the forum. It will not waste of time to explain it to you who is playing game of words with me. Live with you twisted logic and understanding.
True are the words of Allah (SWT) that people who don't have no faith will never be able to understand the message of Qur'an. Look inside yourself and find out what is wrong with you faith.
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Peace be upon you KGB,
LOL. You will not change
Thats just it brother, I have changed and continue to be flexible towards the best understanding. Why does this message tell us to listen to all opinions and follow the best? Why are we told to sek increase in knowledge if we are going to blindly believe our "scholars" and imams? Wether Arabic or not arabic, it is a guide and healing to trust in it.
Lastly, dont forget the verse where itstates there are those who KNOW this message but delibertaly change the meanings. I'm sure you will say that is me and others here, but you must step away from traditional thought for a moment to see clearly. Just liek Mary seperated herfself from her family (tradition) to give birth to Isa, son of Marium. It is the WILL that is responsible for man deciding for him/herself and not blindly following the fathers. All is said with sincere respect brother.
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Peace,
Kyle, not sure what you are leading to, but Mohammed is clearly both a Prophet and Messenger of God as outlined in the verses already displayed by KGB.
salam all .
does Koran say that Muhammad is a PROPHET ? no . according to the Koran, Muhammad is a messenger of Allah and SEAL of the prophets , not a PROPHET himself . what do u ppl think ? -
Darbari does Koran say that Muhammad is a PROPHET ? no . according to the Koran, Muhammad is a messenger of Allah and SEAL of the prophets , not a PROPHET himself . what do u ppl think ?
Well, the facts are
- Muhammad is Rasulullah (48/29)
- 49/2-3 uses the word 'an-nabiy' and 'rasulullah' interchangably.
Therefore, Muhammad must be a 'nabi' as well as 'khatamun nabiyeen'.
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I have never held the view that there would be no more messengers after Mohammed...From my reading of the Scripture, it is a certainty to continue until J-day.
Oh ok. Well, if you meet one (or are indeed one yourself), please let me know. I'm seriously looking for rusul to pledge my allegiance to.
As for Shareef, I rejected his claims because all that he said contradicted the guidelines that were give to us by God...His claim was centered around himself and people acknowledging him rather than focussing on God Alone which is what a true messenger would convey...His attitude/arrogance did not convey God's teachings...Hie did not even know who he was supposed to be a messenger to (was it to the arabs, to the english, to his people, etc..)...Shareef is delusional at best, mentally disturbed at worst.
Ok. Well, I'm not sure if a messenger is limited to a particular race. I understand 'qaum' to be people who're established together (like qaumil kafireen) and not a racial group.
I didnt have a chance to ask Shareef much, he was always defensive.
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Peace be upon you,
does Koran say that Muhammad is a PROPHET ? no . according to the Koran, Muhammad is a messenger of Allah and SEAL of the prophets , not a PROPHET himself . what do u ppl think ?
It never says "muhammad" is a prophet because all of the prophets are "muhammadun", meaning one has to attain the state of "hamd" to intuit God's wisdom.
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Peace be upon you MQ,
Oh ok. Well, if you meet one (or are indeed one yourself), please let me know. I'm seriously looking for rusul to pledge my allegiance to.
You've never been informed of truth by someone else? There are messenger all around us and within us. If someone tells you not to smoke, thats a messenger.
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You've never been informed of truth by someone else? There are messenger all around us and within us. If someone tells you not to smoke, thats a messenger.
Quranically, that's a mursal because I've never met a guy who totally practises the book and is on a movement, which is a rasool.
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Peace
I've never met a guy who totally practises the book and is on a movement
True. I have not either.
Joe
And neither were any mystical/philosophical men or the "wisdom quoters/writers".
There are messenger all around us and within us. If someone tells you not to smoke, thats a messenger.
Agree with you here. My understanding is that a 'prophet' (nabi) is a mystical/philosophical person who initiates/advocates a message and all those who believe in his message and further spreads them, become messengers (rasul).
mystical Of or having a spiritual reality or import not apparent to the intelligence or senses.
Of, relating to, or stemming from direct communion with ultimate reality or God.philosopher a wise person who is calm and rational; someone who lives a life of reason with equanimity.
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Peace Kyle,
If someone tells you not to smoke, thats a messenger.
By the way, if a "nabi" smokes and tells others not to, would the "rasul" do the same? Just curious to know your answer. Thanks.
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Peace be upon you Danish, Nabi, and MQ,
Danish I agree, none can claim that they are free from error. We have several examples from the stories in this reading to confirm that understanding.
MQ, please elaborate on the concept of "mursal".
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Peace be upon you Danish,
By the way, if a "nabi" smokes and tells others not to, would the "rasul" do the same? Just curious to know your answer. Thanks
Interesting question. The "rasul" would definately repeat the correct message of the "nabi" by definition, but as far as thier actions, I could see the rasul making the error more readily than the nabi, just because to get to the level of intution(nabi), you have to develop your character to a high degree. This involves rendering your positive behavior AUTOMATIC. A message can be spread just by speech, the actions dont necessarily have to follow, but should.
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Peace be upon you MQ,
Mursal is just one who passes on a message, a message carrier. Same root as rasul if you noticed.
Please elaborate on the differences that you have understood for me. Also, what is your response to the statement that messengers are not perfect people?
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Peace,
there is no definition for mursal in English on google/define, but there is one in Spanish that I'd translate as
Mursal One Hadit in which the ultimate authority in its isn?d is a t?bi??, in which the name of the Companion who hear it from the Prophet doesn't appear.
