Quran - Word for Word.
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Peace,
Please stick to the subject matter for which this topic was intended. It is getting deviated. Code-19, contradictions in the quran, Jesus's history, etc. has its own place/threads. Hope no offence measured and thank you for your understanding.
So is it settled that the quran hasn't been preserved word for word? if so, we need to take a different approach to that "promise."
Yes, I shall get to that. But in the meantime, let me remind once again
"Not even half the members currently discussing Quran have given their views and I am still awaiting their stance on this crucial issue, inclusive of mods/admins. Com'on fellas, be spirited, its not gonna bite ya; we are discussing a book, not GOD, for GOD's sake. " I hope I don't get to repeat this again. -
Enquirereace danish and all. I use to think the quran was preserved word for word,in my naivety...
Used to? How do you know your naivety's now gone? You still thought the quran is only explained by internal reference despite 25 years of study. If you ask me, you're still at the height of naivety.
But as i researched more i found 'variant' readings (hafs and warsh etc..)
VARIANT readings? Relative to what?
,the rasheed khalifah version,and an uncertainty in the muslim world as to whether the bismillahs are part of the surahs or not....
So Al-quraan itself was never allowed to stand up for itself, the 'muslim world' and RK were the ones you went after. May I ask, do you ever think for yourself?
Lets also not forget that historically uthman burnt a lot of the 'unauthorised' readings of the quran,and many sahabas had different versions and 'abrogated' verses in their posession....
Provide evidence for this misinformation please.
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Enquirer Peace all.Ps;morality or faith is not dependent on the quran,or any book...
It's not because its dependent on Enquirer's personal biases. He makes accusations against al-quraan while totally ignoring (or perhaps being ignorant of) al-quraan's own defense.
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DanishTime gaps, language barriers and mindsets.
THis is especially true if one is like Danish (who pastes 'suralikeit' websites but can't read its own contents) or like Enquirer (who studied al-quraan for 25 years but crows about variant readings).
Yes, I shall get to that. But in the meantime, let me remind once again
"Not even half the members currently discussing Quran have given their views and I am still awaiting their stance on this crucial issue, inclusive of mods/admins.Why?
Com'on fellas, be spirited, its not gonna bite ya; we are discussing a book, not GOD, for GOD's sake. " I hope I don't get to repeat this again.
Without al-quraan, you can create your own God. Sadly, he'll be a fake god
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Peace,
Quote
As for code 19, it can be imitated if you are willing to put the effort in. I heard it was imitated by some Christians.No, they cannot. They have not. They haven't written a book with a specific pattern of words in it, that has no contradictions, that contains scienitifcal knowledge that can only be discovered hundred's of years from now, that contains perfect history to the letter and has perfect wisdom.
if you put it like that then no.
Any way I heard it was a surah and not a book )
Please, investigate more before just claim something.
Some one gave the URL to the site but it's blocked on my computer ).... nothing new there so i will have to check on someone elses computer )
You reject the whole thing now you have discovered most of rashad's ideas are wrong. This is not wise.....
well code 19 is hardly impressive ) The science and the wisdom is more then enough to prove that it's from god.
....and rashad's history.
peace,
sugar -
peace,
Yes, for me the code is only one extra proof, not THE proof for believing the Quran is from God.
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well you said rejecting rashad's ideas completely was not wise but rashad claimed it was the "greatest miracle ever" (well that's what an article i read in submission.org claimed), a couple of months ago i watched a video and rashad was acting like a "news reporter" inviting famous people like rabbi kushner and pat robinson to an event which would be about the "tangible evidence" that will change mankind forever (well i can't remember the exact words he said) but he made it sound like it was a new era for mankind!! o
whatever
yeahpeace,
sugar -
Sugarwell you said rejecting rashad's ideas completely was not wise but rashad claimed it was the "greatest miracle ever" (well that's what an article i read in submission.org claimed), a couple of months ago i watched a video and rashad was acting like a "news reporter" inviting famous people like rabbi kushner and pat robinson to an event which would be about the "tangible evidence" that will change mankind forever (well i can't remember the exact words he said) but he made it sound like it was a new era for mankind!!
RK's 'miracle' served as a good distraction for his followers. If you go to submission.org, you'll find interpretations of al-quraan which , like sunnism, sentences al-quraan into a book of religion (and also a number miracle-factory).
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I know, i used to follow his religion.
peace,
sugar -
Well, at least you escaped. It's much better now than when I first came to this thinking back in 96. Back then, only submission.org was available.
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Well, at least you escaped. It's much better now than when I first came to this thinking back in 96. Back then, only submission.org was available.
YIKES! elektro
so did you take it all literally or just ignore parts of it?
peace,
sugar -
Well, I never accepted code 19 nor RK's messengership. I was too occupied with the hadith issue which took me a long time to get over. Fortunately for me, by the time I dumped hadith (early 97), Kashif Ahmed Shehzada came on to the scene and his articles on al-quraan were amazing. I didn't bother with submission.org since.
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Peace,
I don't care what RK says or claims, this still doesn't take away the patterns. But it is about the Quran itself. I also first believed submission.org, and also Edip's articles saved me. Now i'm even beyond Edip's thinking. I still believe in the pattern, and it is amazing. As the pattern doesn't prove RK's view on the Quran, the pattern is loose from any view on the Quran. If you believe in the code, doesn't mean you have to support RK's views, that is nonsense.
But we're getting offtopic here.............. D -
I was too occupied with the hadith issue which took me a long time to get over.
lol i rejected ahadith within a week yay
i had always had a problem with them as a child .
even before I had heard of submission.org i used to reject loads of ahadith that I had read anyway ignore
It's ironic how RK's followers believe the Quran had been unaltered yet RK removed 2 verses, after re-evaluating the evidence the only compelling evidence they had to remove the verses where the hadiths they quoted on (coz the "code" gets kinda wacky at that point > , ironically hadith is the very thing they tell us all to reject. ;D
peace,
sugar -
Peace,
They have found a new way to calculate that shows the 2 verses are part of the Quran. This was found by non-submission.org people. And like i said, the pattern is not founded on RK findings. You have to seperate these two, and look at it objectively. The code is a verification method, nothing more. God promised protection, the code didn't protect it.
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They have found a new way to calculate that shows the 2 verses are part of the Quran.
lol exactly how many versions of "code 19" have been discovered?
i remember reading an article in submission.org which said that the 'satanic cults' (in other words us) have created many of there own versions of code 19.
peace,
sugar -
Is it settled? By two guys who do no more than rant and ramble? What kind of a scientist are you, Phoenix?
;D
I thought it was, since someone has yet to counter their arguments. The best understanding so far, for me, is that the Quran has not been preserved word for word, but not many changes have been made. But minor changes are still changes.