what scientific evidence from the Quran was not known to the peers of its time?
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Salaam enquirer
And yes,i dont mean unverifed,fanciful theories,but real science...
Ok lets get on with it then. I think we are page 3 of this thread and I personally have not seen any.
I was not aware that the buddah left a written work - which can be verified.
regards
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Peace still-learning and all. I agree,the fact that some of the 'scientific facts' being known before the time of the quran,does not make the quran 'wrong' in that sense...
Another point though,is why shouldnt the quran,if its the last and complete scripture,contain ALL the scientific facts from the past,present and the future? (or at least the present ones.)....because the implication is that the quran is valid for guidance till the 'day of judgement'....?
Are all the scientific facts that have yet to be discovered,or even those that have been recently discovered,in the quran...?
Eg internet,ipod,nuclear power,test tube babies,TV,automobiles,radio,cloning,gene mutation,gentically modified food,etc,etc......A lot of these are mainstream technology and cannot be denied.........Anyone?
peace all. -
Peace,
Eg internet,ipod,nuclear power,test tube babies,TV,automobiles,radio,cloning,gene mutation,gentically modified food,etc,etc......A lot of these are mainstream technology and cannot be denied.........Anyone?
peace all.Give the scientists and scholars (including mquran and Ahmed) anything to work on and they will soon extract certain verses and conclude them too, just like they did with "splitting of the moon". If they can't, just acknowledge that Quran is not for all times. D
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Peace,
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Danish; very good observation of embryology knowledge from history,excellent point...No, ignorant point. Nowhere in history before 1800 did anyone know the facts mentioned in the Quran. You want to use science to disprove the Quran, but when it comes to your won claims you don't use it. There are no written records from before 1800 that even comes close to what is given in the Quran. Also we have no proof at all that Buddha said those things, and there is not one single thing that really coincides with science, it only has good philosophical points but most of these came from the Greek schools that were taken up into Buddhism and Hinduism.
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Peace,
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Danish; very good observation of embryology knowledge from history,excellent point...No, ignorant point. Nowhere in history before 1800 did anyone know the facts mentioned in the Quran. You want to use science to disprove the Quran, but when it comes to your won claims you don't use it. There are no written records from before 1800 that even comes close to what is given in the Quran. Also we have no proof at all that Buddha said those things, and there is not one single thing that really coincides with science, it only has good philosophical points but most of these came from the Greek schools that were taken up into Buddhism and Hinduism.
Hang on a sec. Mr. Arnold. Don't be too quick to make such judgements just because you are "married to the Quran". You mean to tell me that the entire world came to know about such things ONLY via Quran whose conclusions came about 2 centuries ago, hence proclaiming its exclusive divinity??? Are you telling me that people living just before the Quran was revealed had no idea about these things. Better think again before you make such high-ended superficial claims.
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Peace arnoldyasin. Please re-read danishes post and ponder on it...
You seem to talk as if you know all history before 1800,and all science...? o
And your seriously telling me buddhas theories have no correlation with science? (thats not what some scientists say.)
If we cant verify he said those things,how can you verify that buddhas/hindus' philosophy came from the greek schools,did you witness such an event,or are you relying on history that is 'satisfactory' to your standards only...?
Do you think science is only the things you have read,or only what is documented in the west?
please answer my post on mordern technology...The technology i mentioned in this thread is pretty objective....If we discuss subjective views we might just go round in circles...
Peace all.   Take it easy...no offence brother. -
Peace,
We are here talking about the science of development of a human in the womb. I didn't say all science enquirer, don't say things i never said. Read before you think please. Before 1800 there were no scientifical proof of what really were the phases and how it all looked like in those phases with the development of humans. And i never proclaimed people came to know this because of the Quran. Western scientist discovered after 1750's all of these things through research on their own, but these facts were not present before the 17-1800's, but were already told in the Quran.
And yes, most of the Buddhistic writings as reincarnation came from the Greeks and was not part of the original teachings of Buddha. It was merged into the doctrines. I'm not gonna quote endless scientists on this. But in the Buddhistic writings are not contained anything on the level as of the Quran about science. Nothing on the movement of planets, embryology, behaviour of different kinds of waters, pollinizing winds, levels of seawater, levels of air, uniqueness of fingerprints, behaviour animals, the big-bang, the expantion of the universe and so on. None of these are in the Buddhistic writings. Only philosophical terms that coincide with Quantum physics, but Plato's teachings also coincides with Quantum physics on some parts. So you cannot compare the scientifical facts in the Quran with Buddha, they don't even come close...
Peace
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Peace arnoldyasin. Listen,scientists could make a book now,and put all the 'irrefeutable' science of today and yesteryear in it,along with a few cutting-edge and vaguely worded theories too,and all the best social philosophies from around the world/history/scriptures.......Then in 1000 years time im sure people will claim this book is from god...Do you get me now?...
peace all ps;they could also design a code 19 in it to make it even more plausible...
pps; I take it you cant answer the question on why ALL mordern technology is not mentioned in the quran...? ppps;Maybe the quran contains more ideas from science in it (as you claim.) because it came after the buddhist/hindu scriptures...Maybe the quran copied various ideas from other scriptures...? Maybe the bahai books contain better science than the quran...Have you read the baihullahs book..?
Take it easy... group -
Peace,
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Peace arnoldyasin. Listen,scientists could make a book now,and put all the 'irrefeutable' science of today and yesteryear in it,along with a few cutting-edge and vaguely worded theories too,and all the best social philosophies from around the world/history/scriptures.......Then in 1000 years time im sure people will claim this book is from god...Do you get me now?...Ok, if they would write down things, let's say about 40 things and bring them as facts, but ONLY things that are not known now, and even things that go against the main stream scientifical theories of now. then you would have your point. But it is IMPOSSIBLE that they could guess the right things. I'm talking here about facts that were NOT known in the time of Muhammed, and even went AGAINST the main scientifical theories of his times. So your argument is ignorant.
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Those things were NOT and some IMPOSSIBLE to be known in Muhammed's time.
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It are more then 40 statements that are proven facts in science now.
3 ALL of these statements are proven true.
- All of these statements went against the scientifical thinking of Muhammed's time.
This is impossible enquirer to do, your argument shows that you haven't really thought about all of these things. You say collect all the KNOWN facts of these times and all of the NEW cutting edge theories in to one book.
All of the things in the Quran were NOT KNOWN in Muhammed's time and were not NEW theories in Muhammed's time. These facts were not even PRESENT in Muhammed's time to profess. Do you get me now??????
Peace
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We are here talking about the science of development of a human in the womb. I didn't say all science enquirer, don't say things i never said. Read before you think please. Before 1800 there were no scientifical proof of what really were the phases and how it all looked like in those phases with the development of humans. And i never proclaimed people came to know this because of the Quran. Western scientist discovered after 1750's all of these things through research on their own, but these facts were not present before the 17-1800's, but were already told in the Quran.
When i was talking about symbols of conspiracy. Another board member pointed out that itw as focused around western lodges, and civilisation only. It is the same case with science and philosophy. If it didnt happen in the western hemisphere, it didnt happen at all.
Sushruta is the father of surgery. 2600 years ago he and health scientists of his time conducted complicated surgeries like cesareans,cataract, artificial limbs, fractures, urinary stones and even plastic surgery and brain surgery. Usage of anesthesia was well known in ancient India. Over 125 surgical equipment were used. Deep knowledge of anatomyphysiology, etiology, embryology,digestion, metabolism, genetics and immunity is also found in many texts.
"The surgery of the ancient Indian physicians was bold and skilful. A special branch of surgery was dedicated to rhinoplasty or operations for improving deformed ears, noses and forming new ones, which European surgeons have now borrowed."
-Sir W. Hunter (British Surgeon, 1718-1783)for further info a good starting point is a usual http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sushruta
peace
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Peace arnoldyasin. I will leave others to answer my questions,as you dont seem to understand my post,or you are too 'subjectively' commited to the quran,or you just are convinced the quran is right...Anyway no hard feelings....You have every right to believe in the quran subjectively....Just dont claim its universal....Because it just plain aint... ) group
peace and respect...
And please take note of magis excellent points in his last post...Dont believe if it wasnt known in the west,that it wasnt known at all...You are better than this arnoldyasin...please think on these matters my brother... -
Peace,
Yes i know that the western only reinvented things, but that is not the point, now we only need to see if ALL his findings on embryology were true, plus we need to find a person in history that knew it was the male sperm that decides the gender, plus we need to find persons who new about the expansion of the universe and the big-bang. Plus we need to find persons who knew about the different levels of light that differs on sea-levels. Persons who know about the 7 layers of air from thwe ground to the stratossphere. Persons who knew about the uniqueness of the fingerprint, persons who knew about the pollinizing winds, persons who knew a lot on sociology, persons who knew the earth is egg-shaped and not just round, persons who knew about that black holes penetrate the space-time field, persons who knew............ should i go on?
When you have found ALL of these persons that discovered from before 600AD and show that their writings were known in the Arabia pensila, plus give a good explanation how Muhammed knew to pick all of these out, and got them ALL right. Then we can talk further.....
Peace
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Peace arnoldyasin. I will leave others to answer my questions,as you dont seem to understand my post,or you are too 'subjectively' commited to the quran,or you just are convinced the quran is right...Anyway no hard feelings....You have every right to believe in the quran subjectively....Just dont claim its universal....Because it just plain aint... group
peace and respect...
And please take note of magis excellent points in his last post...Dont believe if it wasnt known in the west,that it wasnt known at all...You are better than this arnoldyasin...please think on these matters my brother...I understood perfectly what you meant, but show then what i answered wrong......
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Peace,
Yes i know that the western only reinvented things, but that is not the point, now we only need to see if ALL his findings on embryology were true, plus we need to find a person in history that knew it was the male sperm that decides the gender, plus we need to find persons who new about the expansion of the universe and the big-bang. Plus we need to find persons who knew about the different levels of light that differs on sea-levels. Persons who know about the 7 layers of air from thwe ground to the stratossphere. Persons who knew about the uniqueness of the fingerprint, persons who knew about the pollinizing winds, persons who knew a lot on sociology, persons who knew the earth is egg-shaped and not just round, persons who knew about that black holes penetrate the space-time field, persons who knew............ should i go on?
Yes by all means, please put them all forth. Lets take them one by one. Embrology was known at the time, So that is a no go. The point is not level of desciption as the refference i found was written down atleast 600 years before the Quran. Do you belive that the human mind could educate itself in 600 years to a new level, on a , to them , newly discovered science?
Put forth one point at a time, with relevant verses. First we have to establish that it is not merely wishfull interpretation. Then we go at the other angles.
When you have found ALL of these persons that discovered from before 600AD and show that their writings were known in the Arabia pensila, plus give a good explanation how Muhammed knew to pick all of these out, and got them ALL right. Then we can talk further.....
Peace
No, we dont play this game. Take one point at a time, and i will show you that each was known to people at the time. Especially in india. Now, could we agree that there is a strong sign of indian presence in saudia arabia even today?
peace
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Peace Arnold,
But it is IMPOSSIBLE that they could guess the right things. I'm talking here about facts that were NOT known in the time of Muhammed, and even went AGAINST the main scientifical theories of his times.
And how do you know that such facts found by scientists 2 centuries ago were NOT known during or prior to Muhammad's time. That's why I stated Not only that, but some fools think that in those days there were no premature births, miscarriages, abortions, dead babies, etc. for their own observations, that only recent scientific studies have proven that it was not possible for Muhammad to have ever known about such things when it comes to verses 225, 4067, 7538, etc.
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Peace,
People all over the earth experience those same things, but all of them never came to these conclusions. Plus, no premature births, miscarriages, abortions, dead babies, etc.. doesn't give a precise order, as there are things mentioned that were impossible for them to observe. These are only a few facts which ALL were proven right, together with all the other facts, you have a list that cannot be ignored.... This argument is not good enough and is based on guesses as nowhere on earth did people make the same observations as you claim are so easy to make....
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Peace,
People all over the earth experience those same things, but all of them never came to these conclusions. Plus, no premature births, miscarriages, abortions, dead babies, etc.. doesn't give a precise order, as there are things mentioned that were impossible for them to observe.
Such as? Please state Quranic verses that mentions the embryology. Thanks.
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Peace,
People all over the earth experience those same things, but all of them never came to these conclusions. Plus, no premature births, miscarriages, abortions, dead babies, etc.. doesn't give a precise order, as there are things mentioned that were impossible for them to observe. These are only a few facts which ALL were proven right, together with all the other facts, you have a list that cannot be ignored.... This argument is not good enough and is based on guesses as nowhere on earth did people make the same observations as you claim are so easy to make....
thats all good brother, but it wasnt the question. Im sure truth stands on its own, in fact, i know it does. Lets just take it one point at the time, in the above mentioned way.
You claim some things was impossible to observe, lets take those one at a time, take your pick. however?Ancient Indian theories lacked an empirical base, but they were brilliant imaginative explanations of the physical structure of the world, and in a large measure, agreed with the discoveries of modern physics. ?
- A.L. Basham, Australian Indologist
peace
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Peace,
The first phases of the development of the foetus. You have to have a lot of premature births that exactly happen during different time-phases of the pregnancy to give you a good clue of the order and differences in the phases. This is highly unlikely to occur in a time span for them to write it down in the Quran, plus, get ALL the observations right...
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Peace,
People all over the earth experience those same things, but all of them never came to these conclusions. Plus, no premature births, miscarriages, abortions, dead babies, etc.. doesn't give a precise order, as there are things mentioned that were impossible for them to observe. These are only a few facts which ALL were proven right, together with all the other facts, you have a list that cannot be ignored.... This argument is not good enough and is based on guesses as nowhere on earth did people make the same observations as you claim are so easy to make....
thats all good brother, but it wasnt the question. Im sure truth stands on its own, in fact, i know it does. Lets just take it one point at the time, in the above mentioned way.
You claim some things was impossible to observe, lets take those one at a time, take your pick. howeverAncient Indian theories lacked an empirical base, but they were brilliant imaginative explanations of the physical structure of the world, and in a large measure, agreed with the discoveries of modern physics.
- A.L. Basham, Australian Indologist
peace
Yes i know, but let's see if all of these were known in the time of India....