what scientific evidence from the Quran was not known to the peers of its time?
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Peace Arnold,
But it is IMPOSSIBLE that they could guess the right things. I'm talking here about facts that were NOT known in the time of Muhammed, and even went AGAINST the main scientifical theories of his times.
And how do you know that such facts found by scientists 2 centuries ago were NOT known during or prior to Muhammad's time. That's why I stated Not only that, but some fools think that in those days there were no premature births, miscarriages, abortions, dead babies, etc. for their own observations, that only recent scientific studies have proven that it was not possible for Muhammad to have ever known about such things when it comes to verses 225, 4067, 7538, etc.
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Peace,
People all over the earth experience those same things, but all of them never came to these conclusions. Plus, no premature births, miscarriages, abortions, dead babies, etc.. doesn't give a precise order, as there are things mentioned that were impossible for them to observe. These are only a few facts which ALL were proven right, together with all the other facts, you have a list that cannot be ignored.... This argument is not good enough and is based on guesses as nowhere on earth did people make the same observations as you claim are so easy to make....
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Peace,
People all over the earth experience those same things, but all of them never came to these conclusions. Plus, no premature births, miscarriages, abortions, dead babies, etc.. doesn't give a precise order, as there are things mentioned that were impossible for them to observe.
Such as? Please state Quranic verses that mentions the embryology. Thanks.
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Peace,
People all over the earth experience those same things, but all of them never came to these conclusions. Plus, no premature births, miscarriages, abortions, dead babies, etc.. doesn't give a precise order, as there are things mentioned that were impossible for them to observe. These are only a few facts which ALL were proven right, together with all the other facts, you have a list that cannot be ignored.... This argument is not good enough and is based on guesses as nowhere on earth did people make the same observations as you claim are so easy to make....
thats all good brother, but it wasnt the question. Im sure truth stands on its own, in fact, i know it does. Lets just take it one point at the time, in the above mentioned way.
You claim some things was impossible to observe, lets take those one at a time, take your pick. however?Ancient Indian theories lacked an empirical base, but they were brilliant imaginative explanations of the physical structure of the world, and in a large measure, agreed with the discoveries of modern physics. ?
- A.L. Basham, Australian Indologist
peace
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Peace,
The first phases of the development of the foetus. You have to have a lot of premature births that exactly happen during different time-phases of the pregnancy to give you a good clue of the order and differences in the phases. This is highly unlikely to occur in a time span for them to write it down in the Quran, plus, get ALL the observations right...
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Peace,
People all over the earth experience those same things, but all of them never came to these conclusions. Plus, no premature births, miscarriages, abortions, dead babies, etc.. doesn't give a precise order, as there are things mentioned that were impossible for them to observe. These are only a few facts which ALL were proven right, together with all the other facts, you have a list that cannot be ignored.... This argument is not good enough and is based on guesses as nowhere on earth did people make the same observations as you claim are so easy to make....
thats all good brother, but it wasnt the question. Im sure truth stands on its own, in fact, i know it does. Lets just take it one point at the time, in the above mentioned way.
You claim some things was impossible to observe, lets take those one at a time, take your pick. howeverAncient Indian theories lacked an empirical base, but they were brilliant imaginative explanations of the physical structure of the world, and in a large measure, agreed with the discoveries of modern physics.
- A.L. Basham, Australian Indologist
peace
Yes i know, but let's see if all of these were known in the time of India....
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Plus you have to answer how come NONE of these facts were known and written in the ahdith and ONLY in the Quran, as you claim them to be normal knwoledge of these times, plus that a lot of the ancients had a lot of things correct, but to put them together in one book and have them ALL correct? They should have played at a casino, because then they had some special luck, plus a lot of facts were not known at Muhammed's time, not even in India....
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Peace,
The first phases of the development of the foetus. You have to have a lot of premature births that exactly happen during different time-phases of the pregnancy to give you a good clue of the order and differences in the phases. This is highly unlikely to occur in a time span for them to write it down in the Quran, plus, get ALL the observations right...
Ok lets start here then. Bring forth the relevant verses. You have set as a rule for debate that whomever people i refer to, must have been known in arabia, and as such India is a good choice, it will not be my only one however. i will decide my sources as we go along.
Peace
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Peace,
Plus these people must be aware of that it is a reality of the earth, as like the Hopi Indians have references to the magnetic poles in their songs, but they didn't had a clue what it meant, only later did scientists who heard the meaning of their songs see the connection. The Indians themselves didn't knew what it meant, and so show they got it from their ancestors without knowing the meaning. The Quran put them forth as evidences, as truths that are proof of the divinity, so the person who wrote the Quran had not only knowledge about what he wrote but also confidence it is truth. Plus we have to explain how there are only truths and not one statement wrong.
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Peace,
The first phases of the development of the foetus. You have to have a lot of premature births that exactly happen during different time-phases of the pregnancy to give you a good clue of the order and differences in the phases. This is highly unlikely to occur in a time span for them to write it down in the Quran, plus, get ALL the observations right...
Ok lets start here then. Bring forth the relevant verses. You have set as a rule for debate that whomever people i refer to, must have been known in arabia, and as such India is a good choice, it will not be my only one however. i will decide my sources as we go along.
Peace
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It is He Who has created you from dust then from a sperm-drop, then from a leech-like clot; then does he get you out as a child then lets you reach your age of full strength; then lets you become old,- though of you there are some who die before;- and lets you reach a Term appointed; in order that ye may learn wisdom.
Arnold, what is it in the above verse that one couldn't have observed a sperm to premature/miscarriage/abortion (leech like clots) to birth or dead babies to child to adult to aging, even long before Muhammad's time, which today you think it couldn't have been guesswork but divine intervention, hence deliberating and confessing the divinity of Quran? Is that your motive?
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peace,
The rule is also what i gave above. Ok i will post things, and then let's see what you can come up with. I gave you the link of a book by maurice bucaille, start with refuting all those proofs he gave....
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peace,
The rule is also what i gave above. Ok i will post things, and then let's see what you can come up with. I gave you the link of a book by maurice bucaille, start with refuting all those proofs he gave....
No i will not, but he is welcome to join the debate,. One point at a time please. And the rule above is nonsensical, i will not accept it, because you dont know for a fact that e.g the hopis didnt understand their songs and their meanings. The arabs, didnt know what much of this meant back then either, but someone in their comunity did. The discusion of whether the book can contain so many known facts is better kept for later. First each of these points on their own. Then when we have the amount we can agree is valid, it is my assignment to find a simialr scripture with the same amount or more facts in it, dating before or at the same time.
Peace
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Peace,
You have to accept the rule as the author of the Quran presented the facts as proofs, so the author knew what they meant. And the Hopi's did not understand as i read books about them by Hopi's written themselves, where they say this. If the people didn't knew what it meant, then it cannot be taken as proof, it must be a known scientifical theory the people had, as it is also presented in the Quran. Also i didn't invite anybody. But to give you time, i'm not gonna give you any facts. You yourself go to Harun Yahya's site and refute the books there. As i'm not into a cut and paste debate. I don't have time for that. All the info is avaible on the web. I gave a link to one book already on this forum, it is with my first post on this thread. Go refute the facts in that article. Also go to
http//asadi.95mb.com/koranfiles/
http//www.miraclesofthequran.com/index2.html
http//www.muhammedhasenoglu.com/miracles_quran.htm
http//www.mucizeler.com/
http//home.swipnet.se/islam/quran-bible.htm
http//www.harunyahya.com/
Go refute these facts one by one. have fun. i'll be checking on your progress....
Peace
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So are there anyone else interrested in a debate on this subject that doesnt come down to. X,y, and z who are infallible beings as me says its true, so its true? I have read a lot of Harun's stuff, and on several accounts it is merely wishfull thinking on his behalf, like the 7 layers of heaven. I saw a refute of that one somewhere, unfortunally after i did my own, based on the astrotheology of the arabs. However, the first subject raised to debate is the featus.
Any taker of this debate, will have to produce surahs, so we can see its not wishfull or fancyfull translation, and then we will check out the validity of the claims, and cross check with older or equal cultures. Rather than just take other peoples word for them, because its easyer and because their message is soothing our ears..
Peace
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Salaam
So are there anyone else interrested in a debate
I am trying to work out what it is that you wish to debate. If it is that Quran is not a complete scientific book for everything. I must your superior logic here is way beyond us simpletons. I tried but I could not find this simpleformula force=mass X accelration (I am afraid it is the limit of my scientific knowldge) in the Quran therefore I must conclude you are right- soover billion people take a bow.
Any how simpleton like me thought that your point is that the Quran was complete jiggery pigery and you were going to prove this by showing that the scientific facts mentioned it are complete codswollop. So embryology was your starting point. So lets have it what is in the Quran that is completely and utterly wrong. Or perhaps I have it completely wrong and you simply could not find the answers to you biology homework from the Quran.
regards -
Salaam
So are there anyone else interrested in a debate
I am trying to work out what it is that you wish to debate. If it is that Quran is not a complete scientific book for everything. I must your superior logic here is way beyond us simpletons. I tried but I could not find this simpleformula force=mass X accelration (I am afraid it is the limit of my scientific knowldge) in the Quran therefore I must conclude you are right- soover billion people take a bow.
Any how simpleton like me thought that your point is that the Quran was complete jiggery pigery and you were going to prove this by showing that the scientific facts mentioned it are complete codswollop. So embryology was your starting point. So lets have it what is in the Quran that is completely and utterly wrong. Or perhaps I have it completely wrong and you simply could not find the answers to you biology homework from the Quran.
regardsWhy do you take so great offence, by this simple persuit of knowledge?.
Anyone else?
Peace
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Hello Arnold and 'stillearning',
The verses (225, 4067, 753 that point to development of human in stages, from leech-like clot (meaning the clinging of embryo to umbilical cord) to birth to adulthood are basic concepts that man have known ?gazillion? years prior to Quranic injunctions for the simple reason that birth (dead, premature and grown), miscarriages/abortions, growth, old age and finally death, have remained the ultimate and norm of reality.
What the Quran mentions, in this case, is not wrong at all, rather generalized. But when those who insist that such simple phenomenon could have never been known, unfounded in other historical books and only revealed in Quran by a winged angel descended in secrecy to Muhammad who himself had no idea for which science has recently declared as truth, hence becoming Allah?s Words, is simply outrageous, incredible. I hope you understand my point. Also please do take note of Magi's and enquirer's well defined posts above.
Abortion and its history http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion
Miscarriage http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miscarriage -
Peace,
Of course people observed miscarriages and so on, but i want to see a record where they put it in the same order as in the Quran, and in the same description. And the only good answers are from magi, enquirer's post i already refuted as it were not good arguments. He refered to the science known NOW, and the cutting edge science of NOW. A lot of things in the Quran could not have been known in Muhammed's time, so it is a wrong comparisons.
But go have fun with the links i gave.....
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Peace all. I repeat,if the quran is a book containing 'irrefutable' science,and is 'guidance till the 'end of time',then WHERE are the verses on tv,test tube babies,internet,nuclear power,cloning,gentically modified food,automobiles,transistor radio,mobile phones,ipod,carbon dating,etc,etc....This is pretty conclusive,provable,obvious and irrefutable technology.....
ANYBODY please answer...
Or did god forget?