Is modern technology mentioned in the quran...?
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Peace arnoldyasin. You make a lot of assumptions about me...You also seem to think you can psychoanalyse me through my posts....
I recognise and respect some of your interpretations,and your efforts to correct 'unreasonable' interpretations....
Im not making this personal,you and all the forum are still brothers and sisters in humanity to me...
And it dont make the error of judging you just through your posts....
I know one member personally,and his posts are much different from his off-screen personality....
peace all.Peace,
Enquirer these are your words
....I only look at peoples behaviour,not their theoretical ideas...
I used the same technique on you. With me, what you read is what you get. If that is not in your case why write the things you write if that is not really you? Please answer this question
Could there have been any answer that would have convinced you that the Quran is divine? Answers to your questions?
i respect you to enquirer, but i don't respect the way you handle yourself on this forum. 90% of the people on this forum believe the Quran is divine. You ask us to respect your point of view. I do and most do. But i see you everywhere on this forum pointing out the Quran is not divine, is only a book with wisdom, people's interpretations can never be true or originaly meant as they don't coincide with the 'consensus'. You forget your place. You ask respect. Then show it first! Instead of simple questions and answers, do you know how you sound? The Quran is not divine, and believe what you want, but it is stupid to think so and behave so...This is how you sound. Do you forget that people can be offended by this? That you are on a forum where people's lives revolve on this faith in this book? And you ask respect? First show more respect by not screaming everytime you don't believe the Quran is divine. We know that already. That is your believe and i respect that. But i ask you to remind yourself from now on everytime you write something on this forum, if it will not offend people. I believe the Quran is divine and i have my reasons for it. I don't mind you don't approach it in this way, but i do mind the way you 'attack' other people who do approach it like this. Now your place is the 10%, don't act as we all should be like the 10%, this is the wrong forum for that.
So not only respect that we believe the Quran is divine, also behave like you respect it. Respect our awe for the Quran. Of course you can ask questions on the Quran, but it is in the way you do it how it will be recieved. Please don't see this as an attack, but as an advise. We both want the best in the world. And you know i also disagree with a lot of appraoches to the Quran by people. But i also disagree with your approach with our faith and why we believe in it.
Peace
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Peace arnoldyasin. Ok,you make a very valid point...I will try to respect the fact that you and others hold the quran in awe and reverence....
I dont know exactly what you could say to convince me the quran is 'divine' or absolute....more conclusive evidence?
I would also ask that you and others think about your comments to sunnis,shiahs,non-muslims etc... and references to idol-worhippers,kafirs etc,etc...
Peace all. ps; many are pretty critical of 19ers,sunnis,and many other religious view-points/ideologies as well....For consistency i hope you address the forum on these 'disrespectful' comments to others as well... -
Peace,
Thank you enquirer that you understood the purpose of my post. And you're right on how we should treat others.
Thank you for being a good sport. -
Peace all. I also apologise if i didnt fully respect any posters beliefs...
Take it easy all... -
Peace Cavemandoc,
Douglas Adams would be turning in his grave as we speak ;D
Cavemandoctor; One major problem with your example...The tv instructions dont claim to be divine,complete,or for all times.....
Lol. Y'know what the answers to all enquirer's questions are? Wait for it.......42.
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Cavemandoctor; One major problem with your example...The tv instructions dont claim to be divine,complete,or for all times.....
Wait a second, this is how you respond? I write a "thesis" (as you aptly put it), and you respond with 20 words (yes, I counted )? You said you were going to respond to my thesis later. What happened?
If you still are going to argue in this thread, I expect a full response to my points. You like to talk about civility and respect. Maybe you don't have a lot of experience with formal debate and argumentation, but when engaged in a formal discussion as we are here, civility and respect entail much more than just refraining from using a negative tone. They are also having the intellectual honesty to respond to someone's argument, point by point. Someone puts in time to make an argument and you must respond; that is respect.
If you do not, then I guess I was right in that I knew it was pointless to post and that you would just ignore what I said. Do you see, enquirer, now why many of us think you have an agenda? Why you're not sincerely asking questions to learn? That the only reason you ask these (in your mind, rhetorical) questions is to, in some twisted way, get people to your side (I only say this cause, as arnold pointed out, you seem to have a fundamental need to have others agree with you, the "consensus" effect)?
Like arnold, I respect your beliefs. You don't believe the Qur'an is divine? Fine. No, really. That's fine. Unlike you, I don't have this dire need to have others agree with me. What I don't respect are your hit-n-run tactics. When I make a counterargument, I expect you to respond to my points in an intellectually honest manner. You failed to respond to anything I said. I guess I should take it as a compliment. But this all just left a bad taste in my mouth.
Ugh.
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Lol. Y'know what the answers to all enquirer's questions are? Wait for it.......42.
D God knows he'd be just as satisfied with that answer as he would our answers.
Peace.
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Peace Arnoldyasin
The classic arabic was a common people's language and was not a religious language. So the words used in the Quran have a non-religious meaning, but are so clear as an example, only you have to think hard on how it is used. In those times people knew exactly how He meant it, so the difficult part is to understand how people in those times used it, when we have done that, the meaning is clear. Like with salat, when two horses were in a race, if the second one was catching up and got next to the first horse, the second horse was called a salawatil. So salat refers to contact/following closely. Classic arabic is an example-language. Ghafour was a helmet in those times, so when God says ghafour, it means He protects you. We are still digging out all those examples, as a lot of them are distorted by persian, hebrew, aramaic and traditional understanding. I hope this helps.
1.ok, I see as possible clear+difficult (like English grammar is clear but still we have to study it)
2.your post means that to understand this message one has to master classic Arabic as well as the history and language usage of the people at that time. What about who know the book but can't master those two things?
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My approach towards is to read understand Qur'an and try to follow the basic fundamental clear verses. I don't know Arabic and I never will become a Arabic scholar. The issues which they argue about endlessly on this forum regarding marriage, length of women dress and all these type of minor things have no importance to me.
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Peace KGB
My approach towards is to read understand Qur'an and try to follow the basic fundamental clear verses. I don't know Arabic and I never will become a Arabic scholar. The issues which they argue about endlessly on this forum regarding marriage, length of women dress and all these type of minor things have no importance to me.
to you, but to other people have, and maybe they will be important to you in your future.
Marriage is a minor thing in your belief?Peace Arnoldyasin
I forgot to ask you is Arabic is your mother tongue, please.
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Peace Arnoldyasin
The classic arabic was a common people's language and was not a religious language. So the words used in the Quran have a non-religious meaning, but are so clear as an example, only you have to think hard on how it is used. In those times people knew exactly how He meant it, so the difficult part is to understand how people in those times used it, when we have done that, the meaning is clear. Like with salat, when two horses were in a race, if the second one was catching up and got next to the first horse, the second horse was called a salawatil. So salat refers to contact/following closely. Classic arabic is an example-language. Ghafour was a helmet in those times, so when God says ghafour, it means He protects you. We are still digging out all those examples, as a lot of them are distorted by persian, hebrew, aramaic and traditional understanding. I hope this helps.
1.ok, I see as possible clear+difficult (like English grammar is clear but still we have to study it)
2.your post means that to understand this message one has to master classic Arabic as well as the history and language usage of the people at that time. What about who know the book but can't master those two things?
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is correct madam
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You have to understand arabic grammar. So you need to learn arabic, so you can understand how the words interact with another. BUT you cannot use the modern arabic meanings to understand the Quran as these meanings are distorted. So then you have to buy every classic arabic dictionary and find out the meanings of those times and how they fit in the Quran, also by using cross-reference and the context of verses we can get perfect meanings. The main problem is nowadays, that arabic speaking persons use modern arabic meanings to explain Quran, that most don't use cross-reference or context and ignore important correlations between classic arabic meanings like the ghafour being a helmet in those days and for example that Rahman and Raheem both come from the same root as the word nourishment and even a womb. So the meanings of Rahman and Raheem is not just mercifull and gracious, it also refers to that God is the nourisher and evolver. These connections are ignored or not taking serious which is almost a crime. The problem now is to avoid the above common mistakes and to outgrow the distorted meanings of words. And no madam, arabic is not my mother tongue.
Peace and respect
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Regarding 20 words reply its actually is 19 words reply if you exclude the CavemanDoctor. This reply do come after much of consultation between the group. Don't you see that he is trying to change the topic with his usual BS of equalility open minded approach, respect.
These people egos are so big they find it difficult to say sorry I was wrong and accept the truth. I am not told to respect manafiqeen, I am not told to respect people who disrespect Allah (SWT), I am not told to respect people who do not respect Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him).
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Peace Arnoldyasin
- You have to understand arabic grammar. So you need to learn arabic, so you can understand how the words interact with another. BUT you cannot use the modern arabic meanings to understand the Quran as these meanings are distorted. So then you have to buy every classic arabic dictionary and../..The problem now is to avoid the above common mistakes and to outgrow the distorted meanings of words.
in conclusion (yours), who doesn't know arabic grammar + don't learn Arabic of that time won't understand the correct meaning of the quran, correct, sr? Further conclusion (mine), they will have to rely on translations and /or interpretations of others, just as it is being done nowadays.
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Peace Elena
Sister really don't want to jump in between you and Arnold Yasin but Ayman reply to me make more sense which is really doesn't matter what language you read the Qur'an if you have faith you are going to get the meaning of the message very clearly.
Ayman reply this to me on Ten Reading thread.
Peace KGB,
Quote from KGB on 2006-05-19, 201056
Thank you for your encouragement. I really get lost when people who have command of the language do not agree on certain words. Please make it simple by coming to a mutual understanding of words. That will help me a lot to reach a definite decision.This just shows that command of the language is not the main criteria for understanding the message.
- And had We made it a non-Arabic reading/"quran", they would have said "Had only its signs been detailed in non-Arabic and Arabic". Say "For those who had faith, it is a guide and healing. As for those who do not have faith there is deafness in their ears and it is blindness on them. These will be called from a place far away."
Now it doesn't matter if you are an Arabic speaker or not, for example, if you hear in 4144 "deafness" and "blindness" and understand them literally then you really haven't understood anything from the message. In fact, the message is full of such idiomatic expressions for intelligent people to ponder on regardless of whether they speak Arabic or not. On the other hand, a superficial person who takes such expressions literally, will not gain anything and the great reading will be blindness on him or her. Such extensive use of allegories levels the field between Arabic and non-Arabic speakers because the literal superficial physical meaning is mostly incorrect.
Peace,
Ayman
My response to this was
Peace Ayman
Thank you for taking time to reply to me. I clearly understand this verse. Blind and deaf is not literal. It simply means that the people who do not have faith in Allah (SWT) will not get the message no matter how many times they read it or hear it.
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Peace Arnoldyasin
- You have to understand arabic grammar. So you need to learn arabic, so you can understand how the words interact with another. BUT you cannot use the modern arabic meanings to understand the Quran as these meanings are distorted. So then you have to buy every classic arabic dictionary and../..The problem now is to avoid the above common mistakes and to outgrow the distorted meanings of words.
in conclusion (yours), who doesn't know arabic grammar + don't learn Arabic of that time won't understand the correct meaning of the quran, correct, sr? Further conclusion (mine), they will have to rely on translations and /or interpretations of others, just as it is being done nowadays.
Yes, but that is not the best way. As your depended on that persons interpretation and not on the Quran itself. So i advise everyone to learn arabic. But indeed in the meanwhile learn the translations. Because the main message can be laerned from it.
Peace
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Peace,
Yes, KGB, i never refuted that. But that is only with the main picture of the Quran. If you want to go deeper like me, you cannot stay depended on translations alone. But for the main message, yes, translations are enough, of course.
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Peace Arnold Yasin
For me it will be a great achievement when I start to recite Arabic Qur'an fluently. In last four years I learned a lot even started to know the meaning of simple Arabic words and can recite the small easy verses fluently. I really don't have any other objectives in mind except to simply try to follow the simple clear commands of Allah (SWT).
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salam all .
Peace all. If the quran is a book containing 'irrefutable' science,and is guidance for all times/today,then where are the verses on tv,test tube babies,internet,nuclear power,cloning,automobiles,genetically modified food,transistor radios,ipods,mobile phones,vcrs,electricity,carbon dating,etc,etc...?
This is very conclusive,irrefutable,provable,tangible,easily available,obvious mainstream technology,and cannot all be denied...
Is the book incomplete,did god forget,or is there some other explanation...?
Peace all.there go 25 years of studying Koran down the gutter .
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Peace Fahad,
To make sure there is no confusion, here is the actual quote...just so we know what else has been studied during this time
Just to clarify... I read the quran in arabic,and i have studied it on and off for about 25 years...The last 7-8 years, very intensely at times.I have also been through 'nearly' all the posts in free-minds,some in submission.org,tolu islam,dr shabbirs forum,i have read translations,interpretations and opinions of dozens of authors,as well as talking to 'quran only' and traditional muslims for 25 years also.
I have also studied hinduism,buddhism,taoism,confuicism,new age spirituality,greek philosophy,philosophy,mysticism,paranormal,science,red indian spirituality,indigenous religions,atheism,agnosticism,polytheism,pantheism,panentheism,scientology,wicca.etc,etc...and most importantly life...And im still studying...Click here for the thread please.