Is modern technology mentioned in the quran...?
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Peace Arnoldyasin
What i didn't include
the things you are studying to outgrow the distorted meanings
if I understood you well, you distinguish two things in the quran
- the main message, that you said it can be learnt from the translations
- the rest (what is not the main message) that can't be learnt from the trasnlations because have been distorted and need master classic arabic + history and language usage of that time to get the correct meaning
did I undertand you well? If yes, I continue (if not, you tell me)
my query among the things that need those masterings to be understood correctly, there can be some that are also main, crucial. Why did you separate those things from the main or how do you know they are not part of the main message?
ps what does "you filled it in yourself" mean? is itan English idiom?
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Peace Arnoldyasin
What i didn't include
the things you are studying to outgrow the distorted meanings
if I understood you well, you distinguish two things in the quran
- the main message, that you said it can be learnt from the translations
- the rest (what is not the main message) that can't be learnt from the trasnlations because have been distorted and need master classic arabic + history and language usage of that time to get the correct meaning
did I undertand you well? If yes, I continue (if not, you tell me)
my query among the things that need those masterings to be understood correctly, there can be some that are also main, crucial. Why did you separate those things from the main or how do you know they are not part of the main message?
ps what does "you filled it in yourself" mean? is itan English idiom?
No, a lot of different things are translated or approached wrong. So i cannot pinpoint one subject or not. What i mean more is that you can get a global idea of the message of the Quran, i didn't mean 'main subjects'. And i never seperated anything from the 'main'. You made your own idea of what i meant with 'main', that is what i meant with you filled it in yourself. But we are getting off-topic here.
Peace
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Er enquirer?!? Where are you? Even your 'back-ups' didn't take this long to reach you as your replies to these queries are?
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Peace
No, a lot of different things are translated or approached wrong. So i cannot pinpoint one subject or not. What i mean more is that you can get a global idea of the message of the Quran, i didn't mean 'main subjects'. And i never seperated anything from the 'main'. You made your own idea of what i meant with 'main', that is what i meant with you filled it in yourself. But we are getting off-topic here
you were who said "main message" that implies there are other things that don't belong to the 'main', then I asked for clarification.
in the last post you add a new term "global message"
it is not clear
I leave this discussion in peace. Thanks.
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Peace,
Sorry, if it is not clear, ok i'll try to clarify what i mean. With global message, i refer to the oneness of God, the resort to peace and goodness, that the Quran is connected with the other scriptures, that we should be aware of outside sources and so on. These are the global themes in the Quran, that can be understood even by almost all translations. But when it comes to deeper details even to the above subjects, the arabic must be investigated further. Like rahman and raheem come from the same root as nourishment/provide, this root is also shared with womb. So rahmaan and raheem is translated by most as only most mercifull, most gracious, but it is also connected with that God is the nourisher/provider as a womb is for a foetus. So with carefull study, a deeper layer is found. I hope this gives a bit of start of understanding..
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Peace
Quran is connected with the other scriptures
Can you clearify this.
All this root transalations is faulty way of approaching Qur'an. This is my point of view none of you have to agree with it.
Don't worry about topic going off topic. This topic is not going anywhere. All the Genius are trying to keep away as much as they can. The whole group who use to praise each other for very word are on the run.
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That it confirmes earlier scriptures. That it doesn't reject earlier revelations, but even welcomes them, but also warns us that they are corrupted over time. And yes where is our enquirer?
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Peace Arnold Yasin
Your reply make that statement very clear.
Now lets look at the history. Hadiths books are the part of history. Why history is important? Do we have to look at hadiths as history records to for the understanding of Qur'an?
I read Qur'an without any knowledge of history without even knowing what are Makki or Madni verses and try to apply them at present time.
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Peace,
This is my approach to hadith
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=5825.msg88187#msg88187
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Peace
With global message, i refer to the oneness of God, the resort to peace and goodness, that the Quran is connected with the other scriptures, that we should be aware of outside sources and so on. These are the global themes in the Quran, that can be understood even by almost all translations. But when it comes to deeper details even to the above subjects, the arabic must be investigated further.
I see. I had even thought those items were what you took as main, when I mentioned belief in God + good deeds, now I see you add the item other scriptures/sources. It's clear.
I still think those deeper details can be as important as those you have mentioned, especially in regards to the life of muslims and non muslims today and in future time, they effect in the life. I wish you and the rest of people who are studying the quran the best of success in your research and the most possible objectivity.
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Er enquirer?!? Where are you? Even your 'back-ups' didn't take this long to reach you as your replies to these queries are?
Yeah, where's the promised response to my "thesis"? ???
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Peace all. Enquirer is back... bravo
The ad homineum,and unanswered questions still continue...
The 'cheerleading' of incomplete answers still continue...
In response to your clutching at 'straws' of 25 years,.....25 years studying islam (which includes a study of quran.) but more specific,detailed study of quran in later years,which does not equal 25 years,unless totalled including the 'early' years of learning ...If you cant understand this,then thats not my problem....
Its funny all those who try to discredit,and attack,cannot refute,or explain away all the inconsistencies in the 'plethora' of interpretations,and all the discrepancies of their 'theories',with reality.......
As for the 'timelessness',well i know many of you liked this theory of modern technology not being mentioned in the quran because of the quran supposedly,being timeless...Well if it WAS timeless,then why does it mention events and technology which are not timeless???... That flat out demolishes,the 'timeless' theory,which many of you 'cheerlead'...
And finally,i would just say,when any of the more objective of you,actually understand,agree upon,and can explain clearly what the quran says about certain topics ( topics such as salat,hajj,allah,zakat,shura,right hand women,kaaba,muhammed,democracy,who believes and who doesnt,science,amputations,sticks into snakes,sea splitting into mountains,black magic,whippings,etc,etc...) ,and if you can ever establish/explain how a succesful 'political' or practical 'quran only' system can run, (before the day of judgement please...) then please post these explanations on the forum for everybodies benefit.....
.....I will be waiting for your replies....
My 25 years,taught me to recognise the limitations and 'false rhethoric' of the scriptural interpretations,as explained by the cheerleaders,and followers of illusions...
Peace all. ps; oh,and if anyone can even ATTEMPT to answer why no record of an 'established' quran only political state in the past 1400 years,then please do so...if not for me,do it for other people who would like to know....
We are all free to believe in what we deem correct....but the proof of the pudding is in the eating...
Take it easy people...take my post as 'constructive' criticism... sun group -
No no no. You don't get to dodge this time.
I expect a point by point response to my "thesis."
This means actually responding to each argument, not simply skirting the issue and tossing out 15 other arguments at us that do not even belong in this thread. Wasn't this thread about technology in the Qur'an? All your other hit-n-run arguments belong in other threads. This thread has nothing to do with salat, hajj, political states, etc. so leave it elsewhere.
Don't think we don't see what you're doing. When you cant fully answer all the points, you simply hide behind other "arguments" that have nothing to do with the original thread.
I'm sorry, does that offend you? Is that too ad hominem for you?
Some words of advice
- Grow a thicker skin. You live in the real world. Not everyone has to walk on eggshells just to have a discussion with you.
- When you ask for arguments, and someone takes you up on your offer, then have the decency and respect to respond to their counterargument.
Peace.
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2544 Or thinkest thou that most of them listen or understand? They are only like cattle;- nay, they are worse astray in Path.
Try to understand this verse with the low level intelligence you possesed. The person who has no intelligence to read and understand the message. There is no way you can see the Qur'an social and political message.
I really had eough of you in your previous life on the forum.
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Ah I see he's back. I have to agree with CavemanDoctor here. This has gone far enough. Please respond to people's posts when they have taken the time out to address your concerns or do not start new topics rehashing the same.
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Peace arnoldyasin. Ok,you make a very valid point...I will try to respect the fact that you and others hold the quran in awe and reverence....
I dont know exactly what you could say to convince me the quran is 'divine' or absolute....more conclusive evidence?
I would also ask that you and others think about your comments to sunnis,shiahs,non-muslims etc... and references to idol-worhippers,kafirs etc,etc...
Peace all. ps; many are pretty critical of 19ers,sunnis,and many other religious view-points/ideologies as well....For consistency i hope you address the forum on these 'disrespectful' comments to others as well...Let me analyse this message. Do you really have any respect? Not at all. This message was a desperate attempt to get some support. You really have no respect at all in you. If you had any respect you would have created a forum of your own and start spreading your stupid message with people like you instead of coming here and keep creating topics against Qur'an.
I respect all the religions. I don't go to Hindu, Christians, Budhists forums posting insulting comments about their religions.
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Peace all. Pot,kettle,black... You dont want to answer my questions,fine....
Mr cavemandoctor....my 20 word reply was sufficient as a reply to your thesis....
Peace...Seems some of you 'cant handle the truth'..... sun