Translation of `Jinn`
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Peace Phoenix, Alen, Salim,
so why not just translat "jinn" as "hidden?" and leave it at that?
Because "hidden" by itself doesn't fit in all places. It is a past participle while "jinn" is a noun.
eg
7179. And We have committed to Hell many hidden and humans; they had hearts with which they did not comprehend, and they had eyes with which they did not see, and they had ears with which they did not hear. They are like cattle; no, they are even more astray. These are the unaware ones.Yeah, i mean, Jinn are hidden because they live in theri own sphere.
We know of them what is written in the Qur'an and that is that.If they lived in their own sphere, then how exactly did people worship them as partners with God? How could they have worldly attachments per 6128? Also, please refer to 2710, where Moses thought the vibrating staff looked like a jinn. What does a jinn look like for Moses to make this reference? And when/where did he meet these jinn? And if he did meet them, why would he fear them, since the qur'an tells us that some jinn are believers and some are not. So what's to fear?
Can Jinn be a name given to a tribe ?
I suppose it's possible - but again, this would not fit all the contexts. We still have the smokeless fire, the fact that jinn are mentioned seperately from people, ie, "jinn and men", and most conclusive is 1526-27
And We have created man from a clay hardened and shaped.
And the Jinn, We created him before that from the flames of fire.Peace,
Tay -
peace
also, has anyone actually written an article on the occurrences of jinn and extracted all the additional information that comes with the occurrences? that would be handy.
Actually I just finished doing this. I did this for information sake only. At times the verses are summarized and/or para-phrased. Also at times i only took out the meaning of the occurrence of the root, using the context. This is every occurance of jiim-noon-noon root that is relevant to the jinn creatures. I went into this as if no-one has told me what a jinn is. To be truthful, to be un-biased. I hope it's what you are looking for. And i hope people find this handy. I also provided at the end of every relevant verse the arabic word used. With/without a suffix/prefix.
676 - night (as in time) (janna)
1527- Jinns created from the flames of fire (janna)
5515- Jinn created from smokeless fire (janna)
5539- Day of resurrection neither jinns nor humans will be questioned.(jannun)
5556- In them ( the 2 paradises) are attendants with a splendid look, unknown before by
any human or Jinn.(jannun)5574- No human has ever touched them(the companions), nor Jinn (jannun)
156- crazy/mad (lamajnoonun)
2627- mad/crazy (lamajnoonun)
3736- mad/crazy (majnoonin)
4414- crazy (majnoonun)
5139- crazy (majnoonun)
5152- crazy (majnoonun)
522- mad (majnoonin)
549- crazy (majnoonun)
682- madman (bimajnoonin)
6851- crazy (lamajnoonun)
8122- crazy (bimajnoonin)
5332- hidden (ajinnatun)
2710- snake (jannun)
2831- snake (jannun)
These set of occurrences refer to a tribe of jinns
6100- And they (mankind) made partners with God from among the Jinn, while He had created them.(aljinna)
6112- God permitted the enemies of every prophet.... Both men and jinns participitated
in inspiring each other with flowery discourses by way of deception (aljinni)6128- On the day of resurrection Jinns manage to take many humans. Humans confess enjoying their company with the jinns (aljinni).
6130- God asks jinns and humans whether they had received messengers from amongst them that warned them of judgement day. Both human and jiins bear witness upon themselves. (aljinni)
738- Humans and jinns already in the fire as more are gathered into Hell.(aljinni )
7179- Committed to hell are Both humans and jinns who have hearts, ears, and eyes which they didn't use. "They are like cattle; no, they are even more astray. These are the unaware ones." (aljinni)
1788- If both humans and jinns decided to create a new quran; they couldn't, even if they were helping each other (waaljinnu)
1850- God said to the angels to submit to Adam. They all did, except Satan who was of the Jinns so he disobeyed the Lord. "Will you take him and his progeny as allies besides Me, while they are your enemy?" Miserable for the wicked is the substitute! (aljinni)
1851- "I did not make them witness the creation of heavens and Earth, nor the creation of themselves. Nor do I take the misleaders as helpers." (n/a)
271-, Solomon's soldiers comprising of humans and Jinn and birds (aljinni)
2739- A powerful being from among the Jinn said "I will bring it (Sheba's throne/mansion) to you before you rise from your station. For I am strong and trustworthy."( jinni)
3412- "And for Solomon the wind was given, traveling one month coming and one month going, and We caused a spring of tar to flow for him. And from among the Jinn are those that worked for him by his Lord's leave; and any one of them who turns from Our commands, We shall cause him to taste the retribution of the Fire."( jinni)
3414- Death is decreed for Solomon. The jinns didn't realize it until Solomon's body fell down." the Jinn realised that if they had known the unseen, they would not have remained in the humiliating retribution." ( jinnu)
3440- God will ask the Angels if the humans worshipped them. (N/A)
3441- They (angels) will Say "Be You glorified. You are our Lord, not them. No, most of them were worshiping the Jinn; most were believers to them." ( jinna)
4125- God assigns for humans companions who adorn their past and future actions. The punishment is deserved just like the previous nations of jinns and humans.( jinni)
4129- The rejectors (on day of judgement) will ask God to show them the humans and jinns who misled them to seek revenge( jinni)
4618- These are the ones(rejecters; specifically past 40 yrs old) against whom the retribution has been deserved in nations who had come before them of humans and Jinn; they are the losers. ( jinni)
4629- And We sent to you a small number of Jinn, in order to let them listen to the Quran. So when they arrived there, they said "Pay attention." Then, when it was finished, they returned to their people, to warn them. ( jinni)
5156- "I did not create the Jinn and the humans except to serve Me." ( jinna)
5533- "O tribes of Jinn and humans, if you can penetrate the outer limits of the heavens and the Earth, then go ahead and penetrate. You will not penetrate without authority." ( jinni )
721- Say "It has been inspired to me that a group of Jinn were listening." They said "We have heard a magnificent compilation!" ( jinni)
725- "And we had thought that neither mankind nor the Jinn would ever utter a lie against God." (jinnu)
726- Mankind used to seek help thru jinns but they only helped them increase in sin.(jinni)
11119- I will fill Hell with the Jinn and the humans together! (Aljinnati) NOTE Read the previous verse to understand the context of this.
3213- If We had so willed, We could certainly have brought every soul its true guidance but the Word from Me will come true, "I will fill Hell with Jinns and men all together. (Aljinnati)
37158- And they invented a kinship between Him and the Jinn. But the Jinn know that they will be gathered. (example given in previous verses That God has begotten a son etc...)
1141-6- God advises us to seek refuge in him from evils of sneaking whisperers among the humans AND Jinns. (aljinnati)
7184- Madness/being possessed/being possessed/crazy (jinnatin)
2325- Madness/being possessed/crazy (jinnatun)
2370- Madness/being possessed/crazy (jinnatun)
348- Madness/being possessed/crazy (jinnatun)
3446- Madness/being possessed/crazy (jinnatin)
These are jinn sayings from chapter/surah 72 that gives more information about them
724 "And it was the foolish one amongst us who used to say lies about God."
725 "And we had thought that neither mankind nor the Jinn would ever utter a lie against God."
728 "And we touched the heavens, but found it full of powerful guards and projectiles."
729 "And we used to sit in it in places of listening, but anyone who sits now finds a projectile seeking him."
7210 "And we do not know, is it bad that is intended for those on Earth, or does their Lord want them to be guided?"
7211 "And among us are those who are good doers, and some of us are opposite to that, we are in many paths."
7212 "And we acknowledge that we cannot escape God on Earth, nor can we escape Him if we run."
7213 "And when we heard the guidance, we believed in it. So whoever believes in his Lord, then he will not fear a decrease in reward, nor a burdensome punishment."
7214 "And among us are those who surrendered, and among us are the compromisers. As for those who have surrendered, they have sought what is correct."
The following are not Jinn quotes
7215 And as for the compromisers, they are firewood for Hell.
7216 And had they walked on the right path, We would have provided them with abundant water.
7217 To test them with it. And whosoever turns away from the remembrance of his Lord, He will enter him a severe retribution.
EDIT NOTE Edited for readability and added more content at the end..
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Peace,
I'll post my article when i get home. I didn't wanted to post it yet, as it is a work in progress, but maybe it helps a bit on getting a bigger picture on the whole. And imran, did you change your opinion and agree now that it depends on the context what jinn refers to?
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peace arnold
And imran, did you change your opinion and agree now that it depends on the context what jinn refers to?
what do you mean exactly? For starters I disagree that jinns must be translated EVERY time. When referring to BEINGS it's definitely a proper name. They are referred to as al-jinn(or a derivative thereof) or The jinns. I don't understand how it can be a common noun while it's written that way. If you are going to use this tehcnique than you must also do the same with 'insaan' and translate it every time.
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peace
on this related subject see also this thread
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=6081.msg93470#msg93470
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I take this verse as a metaphor. We can see in the literal sense that man has the ability to exit the atmosphere, but that is not mentioned. It is the inner world that takes us to the "heights" of knowledge, not the external illusory world.
Peace
hmmmm, are you sure about the above?
just in case you are not sure, it was actually stated in the Quran that the Humans along with the Jinns may travel outer space, but the trick is, they need an awsome power to do that
O assembly of the jinn and the men! If you are able to pass through the regions of the heavens and the earth, then pass through; you cannot pass through but with power.
(33)
Salam
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peace
on this related subject see also this thread
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=6081.msg93470#msg93470
And this one
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=4435.0
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=4435.msg63992#msg63992 -
5533 O you jinns and humans, if you can penetrate the outer limits of the heavens and the earth, go ahead and penetrate. You cannot penetrate without authorization.
5534 Which of your Lord's marvels can you deny?
5535 You get bombarded with projectiles of fire and metal, and you cannot win.Notice that jinn and humans are mentioned together. The challenge is to penetrate the heavens - ie. leave the Earth's atmosphere which cannot be done. "Jinn" are human or an aspect of humans and the usages within the reading must be contextual; there doesn't seem to be a one meaning fits all for this particular concept.
Peace.
Peace
I missed what you are trying to say bro, is it the same like what I just added above?, or you are saying 5533 is saying the the Ins and Jinn can not leave the earth atmosphere?
Salam
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http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=4435.msg63992#msg63992
Peace brother
In the above url, are you positive that this is a firm understanding by you that the Jinns are the Human Leaders or you have changed this view since then?, please let me know because if this is the case then I will have a few questions if you don't mind explaining, thanks
Salam
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http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=4435.msg63992#msg63992
Peace brother
In the above url, are you positive that this is a firm understanding by you that the Jinns are the Human Leaders or you have changed this view since then?, please let me know because if this is the case then I will have a few questions if you don't mind explaining, thanks
Salam
This is still my current understanding, whereas another translation may fit better in some verses.
Feel free to ask me questions in this thread
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=4435.0Peace
PS I am glad you are now opening the links to other threads
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This is still my current understanding, whereas another translation may fit better in some verses.
Feel free to ask me questions in this thread
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=4435.0Peace
PS I am glad you are now opening the links to other threads
Thanks bro
I will start with this but I have many, now there will be no emotional refutes we only need logical Quran refutes
you say Jinns means "the human leaders", or "The humans who have power and authority", while Ins means "Ordinary human", or "A Human with no power or Aurhority"
Would that verse then is only talking to the ordinary humans and not to their leaders in power (The Jinns)?
O mankind! reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single person, created, of like nature, His mate, and from them twain scattered (like seeds) countless men and women;- reverence Allah, through whom ye demand your mutual (rights), and (reverence) the wombs (That bore you) for Allah ever watches over you.
(1)
But please bro don't try and use this argument
Nas <> Ins
because 500% Nas = Ins
I have plenty or these sort of questions bro, and btw I only read previous posts for those whom I'm interested to open a dialogue with
Salam
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Peace JM
Here is another serious one bro, in the following verses we read
26 We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape;
27 And the Jinn race, We had created before, from the fire of a scorching wind.(26)
(27)Two serious questions must be raised by the above verses
- were the human leaders created differently from the ordinary humans? sounds like two different races to me
- were the human leaders created BEFORE the ordinary humans?
see bro, that whole concept started to fall over
I still have more but I will need a bit of a break please
Cheers
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Peace,
I do agree that the term jinn also implies chiefs but this is just one meaning. I don't believe jinn refers to one thing in particulair. Jinn means something hidden/concealed/rarely seen. It is like the term walking being, does this refer to humans alone? Defenitly not. Millions of species fall under this term. It is not a title of one species as human or spider, it is a description of an attribute anything that walks. The same applies for the term jinnhidden/concealed/rarely seen things/beings. This is not a title refering to one species. It refers to anything that is concealed/rarely seen that fits the context of the verses where they are mentioned. To believe jinns can only refer to one thing, leaders or mythological invisible beings etc., is the same as saying walking beings can only refer to humans. Jinn is not a title but a description of an attribute which encompasses many things.
Peace
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Peace,
I do agree that the term jinn also implies chiefs but this is just one meaning. I don't believe jinn refers to one thing in particulair. Jinn means something hidden/concealed/rarely seen. It is like the term walking being, does this refer to humans alone? Defenitly not. Millions of species fall under this term. It is not a title of one species as human or spider, it is a description of an attribute anything that walks. The same applies for the term jinnhidden/concealed/rarely seen things/beings. This is not a title refering to one species. It refers to anything that is concealed/rarely seen that fits the context of the verses where they are mentioned. To believe jinns can only refer to one thing, leaders or mythological invisible beings etc., is the same as saying walking beings can only refer to humans. Jinn is not a title but a description of an attribute which encompasses many things.
Peace
Peace bro
is this is just your opinion or you reckon that is what Allah meant by Jinn?, if it is the later, please provide evidences from the Quran, other than that you are really contributing very well to the conjectures
Cheers
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peace,
I base this on the meaning of the word jinn and on the Quran. I will post my article later....
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peace,
I base this on the meaning of the word jinn and on the Quran. I will post my article later....
Thakns bro
but please forget what the word means, or we will find what it means from the Quran ONLY, any meaning from any english dictionery will not be admissable, we are discussing the arabic quran as you know
I will be waiting for your quran based article and if it is a long one i will break my reply in sections
Salam
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and btw bro, any arabic dictionery can't be admissable as well for two reasons
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why we can trust an arabic translator and we can't trust an arabic traditionalist?, sounds discrimination to me
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how we can verify that the arabic meaning is right from the many listed in those arabic dictioneries?
Therefore we can only use the Arabic Quran to find the meaning of Jinns, sounds reasonable to me, i hope it does to you
Salam
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Peace,
I have read the posts in this thread and would just like to comment on the posts who argue that
Jinnare humans or emotions or the such...Did we not read in the Scripture that humans are created from clay/mud while Jinn were created before from flames of fire?
This simple fact leaves no room for these discussions that we & the jinn can be one in the same.
They are an older being, while we are a younger one.
Also, on the subject of translating as
hidden, that does not work or make sence in some verses, while at the same time we are told that Jinn are physical with hearts, eyes, ears, and that they were taken as partners or gods by some humans.Jinn are perhaps able to take on human form which explains how humans would worship them or set them-up as partners...It would also explain the issue of us not seeing them (i.e. there true form) while they can see us.
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Ahmed,
I have replied to your questions in the following thread
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=4435.15Peace
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Peace Layth,
Did we not read in the Scripture that humans are created from clay/mud while Jinn were created before from flames of fire?
This simple fact leaves no room for these discussions that we & the jinn can be one in the same.
I disagree. If jinn can be understood as "hidden", and in this context, the hidden part of man, ie, the soul, then surely the soul could have existed before the clay/mud/physical form. In the "Jinn a new insight " thread, Oben explains this much better.
Jinn are perhaps able to take on human form which explains how humans would worship them or set them-up as partners...It would also explain the issue of us not seeing them (i.e. there true form) while they can see us.
With all due respect, you could just as easily say that the jinn are a race of aliens, who received alien messengers, who believe in one God, etc, and who actually visited mankind in generations past, leading mankind to worship them as partners to God.
hmmm...that actually seems plausible -\
Peace,
Tay
