Can you PROVE that God's previous scriptures have been corrupted?
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The tought of Taurat, Injeel and al Quran is similar i.e. diinul Islam. Because the Ahl Kitab didn't want to believe new prophets sent by Allah so they insist to hold their own Kitab by currupting some verses especially about nubuwah of the coming of next prophet.
I agree with brother lovelymoslems regarding that. That is observable in the present version of Bible.
I will recall what bro AB wrote previously (I don't know exactly which verses though)
Remember that Allah told us that we will read the name Ahmad in the Tourat, this is indeed true with the current corrupt version of it
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your example is only showing that the taurat is not corrupted , even if its "followers" are corrupted .
My example was not intended to prove that previous scriptures were corrupted.
what was the intention then ?
And btw, I believe that previous scriptures are partially preserved. I cannot tell how preserved or how corrupted the previous scriptures are.
ok . thats your belief .
My contention is that Quran is sent to confirm what already present (54 and to be confirmed something must exist otherwise it cannot be confirmed.
verse 548 uses the word "al kitab", not "Quran" .
548 And unto thee have We vouchsafed this divine writ, setting forth the truth, confirming the truth of whatever there still remains of earlier revelations and determining what is true therein.' ...
where is "earlier revelations" in 548 ?
... 548
548 And We have revealed to you Al-Kitab/The Book with the truth , confirming to what is between his hands from Al-Kitab/The Book ,...
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what was the intention then ?
To negate your understanding that all prophets received exactly the SAME ARABIC quran we read nowadays.
My contention is that Quran is sent to confirm what already present (54 and to be confirmed something must exist otherwise it cannot be confirmed.
verse 548 uses the word "al kitab", not "Quran" .
True bro
548 And unto thee have We vouchsafed this divine writ, setting forth the truth, confirming the truth of whatever there still remains of earlier revelations and determining what is true therein.' ...
where is "earlier revelations" in 548 ?
... 548
548 And We have revealed to you Al-Kitab/The Book with the truth , confirming to what is between his hands from Al-Kitab/The Book ,...
So to which Kitab does the first and second Kitab in 548 refer?
How about this?
291 And if it is said to them "Believe in what God has sent down;" they Say "We believe only in what was sent down to us," and they reject what came after it, while it is the truth authenticating what is with them. Say "Why then did you kill God's prophets if you were believers?"Wassalam,
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what was the intention then ?
To negate your understanding that all prophets received exactly the SAME ARABIC quran we read nowadays.
did it negate that understanding ? if so , how ?
also please quote where i said that "all prophets received exactly the SAME ARABIC quran we read nowadays" .
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what was the intention then ?
To negate your understanding that all prophets received exactly the SAME ARABIC quran we read nowadays.
did it negate that understanding ? if so , how ?
Because at least Allah has sent Torah.
also please quote where i said that "all prophets received exactly the SAME ARABIC quran we read nowadays".
You have thought on that understanding and you are still studying it, right?
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what was the intention then ?
To negate your understanding that all prophets received exactly the SAME ARABIC quran we read nowadays.
did it negate that understanding ? if so , how ?
Because at least Allah has sent Torah.
the taurat , yes . not the OT of the jews .
also please quote where i said that "all prophets received exactly the SAME ARABIC quran we read nowadays".
You have thought on that understanding and you are still studying it, right?
yes , i m studying what "al kitab" is . but i was not discussing "al kitab" here . i was discussing the existence of something you call "previous scriptures" .
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the taurat , yes . not the OT of the jews .
But it WAS, or what do you think?
yes , i m studying what "al kitab" is . but i was not discussing "al kitab" here . i was discussing the existence of something you call "previous scriptures" .
So what do you call them?
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the taurat , yes . not the OT of the jews .
But it WAS, or what do you think?
no, it wasnt . i have read some verses of OT in Shaikh's booklets . OT looks like the work of a very evil person to me . on the other hand , Koran doesnt say that the taurat is corrupted or anything . but it commands to uphold the taurat . so the taurat should notbe corrupted . the OT never was the taurat .
yes , i m studying what "al kitab" is . but i was not discussing "al kitab" here . i was discussing the existence of something you call "previous scriptures" .
So what do you call them?
there is no such thing . (464)
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Salaam saladin,
no, it wasnt . i have read some verses of OT in Shaikh's booklets . looks like the work of a very evil person to me . on the other hand , Koran doesnt say that the taurat is corrupted or anything . but it commands to uphold the taurat . so the taurat should notbe corrupted . the OT never was the taurat .
If somebody who knows nothing about Islam, and then he read this hadith below.
Shahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3371
Abu Sirma said to Abu Sa'id al Khadri (Allah he pleased with him) 0 Abu Sa'id, did you hear Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) mentioning al-'azl? He said Yes, and added We went out with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing 'azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid-conception). But we said We are doing an act whereas Allah's Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah's Mes- senger (may peace be upon him), and he said It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born.
What do you think his opinion regarding prophet Muhammad will be? Of course he will think that Muhammad is rapist!
The thing is don't just read what your mullah gave you. Read by yourself just like you read quran with open mind. I am not defending jews or christians here, I just want to be objective and not biased.
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=5941.msg91117#msg91117
So what do you call them?
there is no such thing . (464)Bro ...I think it is better for me to let you study and research the topic first and then come back here in this forum after you make your mind. Because it seems to me that on one side you deny that Allah has sent any other scripture except ARABIC QURAN we read nowadays but on the other side you are not prepared to explain what Torah is and what Injeel is, etc.
As I said, I had the same thought like you some time back but after some readings I find out that there are some unresolved problems if I maintain that all prophets received exactly the same arabic quran. OK bro, happy researching! )
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Salaam saladin,
no, it wasnt . i have read some verses of OT in Shaikh's booklets . looks like the work of a very evil person to me . on the other hand , Koran doesnt say that the taurat is corrupted or anything . but it commands to uphold the taurat . so the taurat should notbe corrupted . the OT never was the taurat .
If somebody who knows nothing about Islam, and then he read this hadith below.
Shahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3371
Abu Sirma said to Abu Sa'id al Khadri (Allah he pleased with him) 0 Abu Sa'id, did you hear Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) mentioning al-'azl? He said Yes, and added We went out with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing 'azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid-conception). But we said We are doing an act whereas Allah's Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah's Mes- senger (may peace be upon him), and he said It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born.
What do you think his opinion regarding prophet Muhammad will be? Of course he will think that Muhammad is rapist!
i think it is no different than the bible . what has this got to do with the topic?
So what do you call them?
there is no such thing . (464)Bro ...I think it is better for me to let you study and research the topic first and then come back here in this forum after you make your mind. Because it seems to me that on one side you deny that Allah has sent any other scripture except ARABIC QURAN we read nowadays but on the other side you are not prepared to explain what Torah is and what Injeel is, etc.
whatever taurat and injeel is, there is no indication in the Koran that they are corrupted . that is only something which you are insisting on .
i m already researching . you should also be . you havent made up your mind either , because sometimes you say al kitab is the Koran . then u say al kitab is "previous scriptures" , then u say that taurat and injeel are "previous scriptures" which are corrupted ...
peace.
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Salaam saladin,
whatever taurat and injeel is, there is no indication in the Koran that they are corrupted . that is only something which you are insisting on .
I agree with what your statement above (somebody please bring some verses if I miss them). So I really don't understand why you say I insist that according to quran, taurat and injeel are corrupted. I conclude that Bible is corrupted from my own reading and not from quran. This is the reason why I believe previous scriptures are partially preserved.
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=5941.msg91117#msg91117
i m already researching . you should also be . you havent made up your mind either , because sometimes you say al kitab is the Koran . then u say al kitab is "previous scriptures" , then u say that taurat and injeel are "previous scriptures" which are corrupted ... )
OK my pleasure ...btw, I understand the word Kitab from the context so don't be too surprised that "sometimes" I say A, B, C, etc )
Wassalam,
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no, it wasnt . i have read some verses of OT in Shaikh's booklets . OT looks like the work of a very evil person to me . on the other hand , Koran doesnt say that the taurat is corrupted or anything . but it commands to uphold the taurat . so the taurat should notbe corrupted . the OT never was the taurat .
well I guess it still depends on which version you are looking at. The old testament that christians read is very different than what the jews read. The christians added a lot of stuff also to prove their point that jesus is god by adding to the old testament and then saying look at the old testament its prophesized right here.
By the way what the jews read...they call it the torah, so if its not the same as what allah is referring to in the quran, then it has been corrupted.
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i m already researching . you should also be . you havent made up your mind either , because sometimes you say al kitab is the Koran . then u say al kitab is "previous scriptures" , then u say that taurat and injeel are "previous scriptures" which are corrupted ...
OK my pleasure ...btw, I understand the word Kitab from the context so don't be too surprised that "sometimes" I say A, B, C, etc
by the way , i dont think it is the right way to understand things , because Koran uses different words for "quran", "kitab" and "taurat/injeel" . so "kitab" should not be mixed with "quran" or "taurat","injeel" etc.
salam.
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Salaam brother saladin,
i m already researching . you should also be . you havent made up your mind either , because sometimes you say al kitab is the Koran . then u say al kitab is "previous scriptures" , then u say that taurat and injeel are "previous scriptures" which are corrupted ... )
OK my pleasure ...btw, I understand the word Kitab from the context so don't be too surprised that "sometimes" I say A, B, C, etc )
by the way , i dont think it is the right way to understand things , because Koran uses different words for "quran", "kitab" and "taurat/injeel" . so "kitab" should not be mixed with "quran" or "taurat","injeel" etc.
I think using the context is OK ...See the discussion on the meaning of salat. The context is used to "find" the meaning.
But of course, it would be really interesting to research "Kitab", "quran", "taurat", and "injeel" ...