Exposing The 3 Salaat Theory
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Salaam Phoenix1
Your statement
?What does God gain from us glorifying It? nothing. God needs nor wants nothing from us.?
You got it backwards we need it NOT Allah and this is why Salaat is the highest for of meditation/glorification/praise. Allah does not meditate/glorify/praise, but we definitely need it for our souls and its incumbent among the Peacemakers (Muslims) who submits their will in Peace to the will of Allah.
For one you sound like a kafir
?What do we gain from uttering a few words? nothing. If we did, then sunnis, christians, hindus and all those religious people wouldn't actually be hypocrites.?
Allah has decreed for the Muslms to observe Salaat in the Holy Qur?aan and when we recite Faatihah, etc. etc. while we (Muslims) observe Salaat we do not ridicule this act with your expression, ?What do we gain from uttering a few words? Nothing?. Now I can see why you take the position that you do.
You have said this
?To glorify God is to display divine qualities in us. It is to act in the best possible way and glorify/uphold God's laws and system.?
And also Phoenix1 ?meditation/glorification/praise? is definately inclusive of Salaat. It is very very deceptive for one to absolutely remove Salaat from being inclusive of that meditation/glorification/praise.
You have said this
?I don't think there are any specific times given.?
That is because you fall under this verse
Qur?aan 4724
Why do they not study the Qur?aan carefully? Are their minds blocked?You contradict Allah in the Holy Qur?aan when you say that Allah has not specified any given times or periods to observe Salaat
Qur?aan 4103
?the Salaat are decreed for the believers at specific times.Where have you been at Pheonix1? Do you read Al Qur?aan? Do you follow Al Qur?aan? Are you a Muslim or not?
Allah has clearly outlined for us the 5 prescribed Salaat that Muslims are suppose to observe but I guess you choose not to? I am a Muslim and I believe that I am supposed to submit my entire will in Peace to the will of Allah unconditionally. This is very important in the life of a Musim who possess taqwa, which means to fear Allah or tremble at the mention of Allah. Taqwa, is a highly pious attribute of One Who Is Of Peace (Muslim)?
You have ended with this
?unless I am wrong?
and yes you are wrong. It is obviously clear that you choose to ignore the periods of time that Allah laid down for us to observe Salaat in the Holy Qur?aan. This is what Allah has said about some people among us
Qur?aan 1746
And We placed shields around their hearts, to prevent them from understanding it (the Qur?aan), and deafness in their ears. And when you preach your Sustainer, using the Qur?aan alone, they run away in aversion.I will close with this verse
Qur?aan 2436-37
36. (Allah?s guidance is found) in houses exalted by Allah, for His name is commemorated therein. Glorifying Him therein, day and night-
37. 37. People who are not distracted by business or trade from commemorating Allah; they observe the Salaat, and give the Zakaat, and they are conscious of the day when the minds and the eyes will be horrified.Look how these verses says, ?Glorifying? and ?they observe the Salaat?. Phoenix1, its all connected but those with perversity in the heart wants to totally remove Salaat from being inclusive of meditation/glorification/praise, for the obvious reasons.
I forgot to ask you, I have one question for you. Read this verse below
Qur?aan 5249
Also during the night glorify Him, and at dawn as the stars fade away.Phoenix1, when you read this verse would you associate this verse with performing Salaat or not?
Salaam
peace Al khidr,
glorification - to praise, honor
salat- to connect, link, bond...etc
What does God gain from us glorifying It? nothing. God needs nor wants nothing from us.
What do we gain from uttering a few words? nothing. If we did, then sunnis, christians, hindus and all those religious people wouldn't actually be hypocrites.
Salat, like everything else in the Quran, is meant for our benefit. We are supposed to learn something from it, improve ourselves through it. It's not a meaningless ritual God wants us to do.
To glorify God is to display divine qualities in us. It is to act in the best possible way and glorify/uphold God's laws and system.
I don't think there are any specific times given. Before sunrise, before sunset, at night - that's the whole day.
that's what glorification means, unless I am wrong. -
peace Al Khidr
everywhere, when the Quran uses the word "glorify" it always tells us to do all day. That's what I see when I read "before sunrise, before sunset, and at night"
The verse you gave me, 5249, you forgot to post 5248 with it because it says
we should glorify God when we wake up. Then it says also glorify God during the night and dawn.The rest of the attacks on me in your post are based on your thinking that glorify means salat and salat actually involves recitation of words.
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Peace be upon you Al Khidr,
Salaam Idolfree1
Below is your foolish statement
?It is your lack of study of this spiritual philosophy, but instead being more concerned with the color of the nation or the names of the Kings, etc., that is not allowing you to see the truth.?
Yes, I said that , correct.
Three things (1) I knew you were a fake when you declared you knew the scholars that I?ve been highlighting and weak Black men do not roll with men of that caliber
Ohhhh, so you assumed that when I said I know who you are talking about that I mingle amongst them? That would be your mistake. Pay attention a little more angry man.
(2) In the hood you know what we call Black men such as yourself
Yeah, you call me by my name if you dont want to get punched in your mouth. Hopefully I would be able to transcend that and react properly however.
(3) Idolfree1 why are you so hypocritical when you have made statements such as these
?Who says they had very little scientific knowledge? Thier artifacts prove opposite to that. It is only "White Supremecy" that wants to deny the credit of the Africans of Kemet(ancient Egypt). The SCIENCE of Kemet is still used today as well as the symbolisms. The "white supremist" movement wants us to think that anyone before Greece was ignorant and could not think scientifically. The truth is that the greeks learned from the people of Kemet.
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=1131.0?
And what have I said that goes against that?
The one?s who have been playing the color game are your comrades, I?m just not an imp like someIdolfree1 who bows down to that and I am definitely not one who fakes like I?m into the Black knowledge but yet a turn coat inside?
Please provide example.
You have said this
?If you are following 5 salaats and 19 codes, I dont expect you to understand what I am saying.?
Bore me with more of your OPINIONS/STATEMENTS/ASSUMPTIONS because you have not brought anything to the table besides that. The people can see that you and the rest of the proponents of the ?3 Salaat Thoery? are lacking when it comes to getting down inside Al Qur?aan to prove your position. Like I have told many proponents of the ?3 Salaat Theory? if you want to just present OPINIONS/STATEMENT without backing it up with evidence that?s fine, Alhamdulillah, just as long as you are away idolfree1 that is not proving your position, and OPINIONS/STATEMENTS are something different from FACT, but when you take that approach in a debate as default it serves as nothing but DEFEAT. You and the others have been misleading sincere Muslims with that falsehood, but like the Qur?aan says once truth comes falsehood perishes
My proofs are ALL OVER this forum. Just do a search and you can see where I have gone over the same things over and over again.
You went on shuffling and said
?Regarding Khamitic philosophy and what you call "mysticism", please explain the 7 scorpions of the Ausar/Auset story.?
First of all you are not addressing anything that no body knows; secondly you would love to jump off topic-this is nothing but a red harrying to fill the void of your incompetence of this subject matter 5 or 3 Salaat.
Thats the answer I expected.
After hearing this
?The site you gave, is it trying to argue that the God has a name? Like humans who bneed names to diffrentiate one from the other? Nonsense!?
Now I can see why progod has problems getting you to comprehend what he is trying to enlighten you on in regards to the Arabic Langauge. This link you commented on
http//www.freewebs.com/suprememathematics/allah.htm
seem to disturb you again because of your promotion of a Greek Pagan term ?GOD?, that you constantly use over the original name of the Creator Allah.I actually prefer "neter", but the word understood here is "God", and we are to deliver the message in th elanguage of the reciever.
You have said this
?God is indivisible and from where the Greeks got the word "Atom" (When they thought that was the smallest object)?
idolefree1 why don?t you talk about how the Greeks got the term ?GOD??
For what?
Idolfree1 you have said this
?You have errored by assuming that Kitaab means scripture and not "book".
Man, you must be kidding right? Kitaab in Arabic means ?book or scripture?, please progod break down this elementary Arabic word to your friend here, he needs it.
You are reaching out for help? Why dont you break it down.
Again below is some of your mystic nonsense that means nothing nor has a direction in any practical sense nor relevant to the subject matter at hand
?It is a metaphor for Universal Law, not the 114 chapter book written by an enlightened being. There is no par of the 114 chapter book that is off limits.?
Ok
Below is again is some more of your mystic talk that takes you around in circles with no end or meaning but an empty void of nothingness
?I advocate 2 salaat, which by the way is not bowing on the ground to some object in the sky. Its a time to join consciousness with subconcious to program your behavior, which is what "religion" is all about.?
Salaat is prescribed and it is deeper then your mystical babble here and I must highlight your statement or opinion here does not prove that Qur?aan 11114 represents 2 Salaat. It is clear idolfree1 that you are not an independent thinker, you just follow what is given to you for BELIEF?
OK
You have said this below
?The intelligent audiecne . By the way, is not swayed by your saying "intelligent audience" Only through verifyable answers.?
Notice that you said, ?Only through verifyable answers?, this is what the people has been waiting on you for to produce evidence inside the Qur?aan besides your statements saying that there is only 3 Salaat in Al Qur?aan. Below is my verifyable evidence
http//www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/3salaattheoryexposed.htm
and
http//www.freewebs.com/suprememathematics/grabbingforstraws.htm
and
http//www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/wakaszeehlatifdebate.htm
Where is yours besides your OPINIONS/STATEMENTS/ASSUMPTONS etc. etc.?
Please use the search engine
You have said this
?You should pick up the book Metu Neter by Ra Un Nefer Amen, the one who many of your so called scholars refer to in regards to Ancient Egyptian spirituality.?
Correction Cheikh Anta Diop came before Ra Un Nefer and as a matter of fact Ra Un Nefer uses Cheikh Anta Diop?s resources and Ashra Kwesi is much deeper then Ra Un Nefer when breaking down the Metu Neter.
Yes, Cheikh Anta Diop certainly came before Ra Un Nefer Amen and uses his excellent research where applicable, as he does others in terms of reference. I wont sit here and debate with you about who is better.
People are asking why don?t idolfree1 produce evidence in Al Qur?aan to support their ?3 Salaat Theory? and I think the answer obvious, they don?t have the evidence and never did.
Why dont you shuffle on over to the search engine and educate yourself.
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Salaam Idolfree1
You have said the following
?Yeah, you call me by my name if you dont want to get punched in your mouth. Hopefully I would be able to transcend that and react properly however.?
If I read it correctly, uncle tom, it sounds like you said you will punch me in the mouth. If this is the case that you are actually saying you will punch me in the mouth must be direct result of your cowardly Muslim nature. I guess idolfree you have to play tough guy before your Progressive Muslim audience. Its so easy to make such declarations on the internet (cyber space apart from one another) but in the real world idolfree we all know you?re the type with shaky knees who flees. You gave us a good laugh for today, keep up your Richard Pryor comic act, we find it amusing.
Salaam
Peace be upon you Al Khidr,
Salaam Idolfree1
Below is your foolish statement
?It is your lack of study of this spiritual philosophy, but instead being more concerned with the color of the nation or the names of the Kings, etc., that is not allowing you to see the truth.?
Yes, I said that , correct.
Three things (1) I knew you were a fake when you declared you knew the scholars that I?ve been highlighting and weak Black men do not roll with men of that caliber
Ohhhh, so you assumed that when I said I know who you are talking about that I mingle amongst them? That would be your mistake. Pay attention a little more angry man.
(2) In the hood you know what we call Black men such as yourself
Yeah, you call me by my name if you dont want to get punched in your mouth. Hopefully I would be able to transcend that and react properly however.
(3) Idolfree1 why are you so hypocritical when you have made statements such as these
?Who says they had very little scientific knowledge? Thier artifacts prove opposite to that. It is only "White Supremecy" that wants to deny the credit of the Africans of Kemet(ancient Egypt). The SCIENCE of Kemet is still used today as well as the symbolisms. The "white supremist" movement wants us to think that anyone before Greece was ignorant and could not think scientifically. The truth is that the greeks learned from the people of Kemet.
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=1131.0?
And what have I said that goes against that?
The one?s who have been playing the color game are your comrades, I?m just not an imp like someIdolfree1 who bows down to that and I am definitely not one who fakes like I?m into the Black knowledge but yet a turn coat inside?
Please provide example.
You have said this
?If you are following 5 salaats and 19 codes, I dont expect you to understand what I am saying.?
Bore me with more of your OPINIONS/STATEMENTS/ASSUMPTIONS because you have not brought anything to the table besides that. The people can see that you and the rest of the proponents of the ?3 Salaat Thoery? are lacking when it comes to getting down inside Al Qur?aan to prove your position. Like I have told many proponents of the ?3 Salaat Theory? if you want to just present OPINIONS/STATEMENT without backing it up with evidence that?s fine, Alhamdulillah, just as long as you are away idolfree1 that is not proving your position, and OPINIONS/STATEMENTS are something different from FACT, but when you take that approach in a debate as default it serves as nothing but DEFEAT. You and the others have been misleading sincere Muslims with that falsehood, but like the Qur?aan says once truth comes falsehood perishes
My proofs are ALL OVER this forum. Just do a search and you can see where I have gone over the same things over and over again.
You went on shuffling and said
?Regarding Khamitic philosophy and what you call "mysticism", please explain the 7 scorpions of the Ausar/Auset story.?
First of all you are not addressing anything that no body knows; secondly you would love to jump off topic-this is nothing but a red harrying to fill the void of your incompetence of this subject matter 5 or 3 Salaat.
Thats the answer I expected.
After hearing this
?The site you gave, is it trying to argue that the God has a name? Like humans who bneed names to diffrentiate one from the other? Nonsense!?
Now I can see why progod has problems getting you to comprehend what he is trying to enlighten you on in regards to the Arabic Langauge. This link you commented on
http//www.freewebs.com/suprememathematics/allah.htm
seem to disturb you again because of your promotion of a Greek Pagan term ?GOD?, that you constantly use over the original name of the Creator Allah.I actually prefer "neter", but the word understood here is "God", and we are to deliver the message in th elanguage of the reciever.
You have said this
?God is indivisible and from where the Greeks got the word "Atom" (When they thought that was the smallest object)?
idolefree1 why don?t you talk about how the Greeks got the term ?GOD??
For what?
Idolfree1 you have said this
?You have errored by assuming that Kitaab means scripture and not "book".
Man, you must be kidding right? Kitaab in Arabic means ?book or scripture?, please progod break down this elementary Arabic word to your friend here, he needs it.
You are reaching out for help? Why dont you break it down.
Again below is some of your mystic nonsense that means nothing nor has a direction in any practical sense nor relevant to the subject matter at hand
?It is a metaphor for Universal Law, not the 114 chapter book written by an enlightened being. There is no par of the 114 chapter book that is off limits.?
Ok
Below is again is some more of your mystic talk that takes you around in circles with no end or meaning but an empty void of nothingness
?I advocate 2 salaat, which by the way is not bowing on the ground to some object in the sky. Its a time to join consciousness with subconcious to program your behavior, which is what "religion" is all about.?
Salaat is prescribed and it is deeper then your mystical babble here and I must highlight your statement or opinion here does not prove that Qur?aan 11114 represents 2 Salaat. It is clear idolfree1 that you are not an independent thinker, you just follow what is given to you for BELIEF?
OK
You have said this below
?The intelligent audiecne . By the way, is not swayed by your saying "intelligent audience" Only through verifyable answers.?
Notice that you said, ?Only through verifyable answers?, this is what the people has been waiting on you for to produce evidence inside the Qur?aan besides your statements saying that there is only 3 Salaat in Al Qur?aan. Below is my verifyable evidence
http//www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/3salaattheoryexposed.htm
and
http//www.freewebs.com/suprememathematics/grabbingforstraws.htm
and
http//www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/wakaszeehlatifdebate.htm
Where is yours besides your OPINIONS/STATEMENTS/ASSUMPTONS etc. etc.?
Please use the search engine
You have said this
?You should pick up the book Metu Neter by Ra Un Nefer Amen, the one who many of your so called scholars refer to in regards to Ancient Egyptian spirituality.?
Correction Cheikh Anta Diop came before Ra Un Nefer and as a matter of fact Ra Un Nefer uses Cheikh Anta Diop?s resources and Ashra Kwesi is much deeper then Ra Un Nefer when breaking down the Metu Neter.
Yes, Cheikh Anta Diop certainly came before Ra Un Nefer Amen and uses his excellent research where applicable, as he does others in terms of reference. I wont sit here and debate with you about who is better.
People are asking why don?t idolfree1 produce evidence in Al Qur?aan to support their ?3 Salaat Theory? and I think the answer obvious, they don?t have the evidence and never did.
Why dont you shuffle on over to the search engine and educate yourself.
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Peace be upon you Al Khidr,
Yeah, you call me by my name if you dont want to get punched in your mouth. Hopefully I would be able to transcend that and react properly however.
Ooop!! threatening language .... o
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Peace
Brother Al-khidr how do you explain verse 2458 where the three times are mentioned? Why did not God say regarding 5 times but He mentioned only three times and two of them are private Salat times? What are these two private Salat times mentioned in this verse that are different from the other three times? And why it says other then these three private times we can intermingle? I do not see any Salat during this intermingling, do you?
Here is the verse
2458 O you who believe, let those who are your dependants and have not yet attained puberty request your permission regarding three times Before the Salat at dawn, and should you put off your attire from being outdoors, and after the Salat made at dusk. These are three private times for you. Other than these times, it is not wrong for you or them to intermingle with one another. God thus clarifies the revelations for you. And God is Knowledgeable, Wise.This is the second time I am asking you these questions because the first time I asked you did not answer them. Maybe you felt they are not so important and you ingnored them altogether, but they are important for me. So please take some time out of your busy day and answer them honestly.
Anyone can answer not only Al-khidr even though I addressed the questions to him because I would like to hear his opionion.
Selam
FJSelam all,
Al-khidr you asked
Quote
Which side of the fence do you stand under observing the prescribed Salaat 5 or 3 times?Brother to be honest I like your article but I have not yet decided which side to stand on when it comes to observing salaat. Brother with this question and the way you sometime behave I feel like you are trying to force your decision... I hope you are not counting how many of us accepted your explanation. You did what you did and I appreciate that. I have been reading everything I can and am trying to follow the best and that is because I do not speak Arabic and thus am dependend on your explanations. I have not yet decided because so far I believed that there were two salat per day and the reason I believed that was because of the three private times that God mentioned in 2458... and now you came in and explain that there are five!!! confused Be patient brother if yours is the truth im sure it will prevail above all other explanations. I hope God leads us to the truth of this matter and if one is searching for that than surely God will lead him/her to that. I believe that most of us here are trying to understand this and that no one is trying to, at least not intentionally, mislead the others. That is why we should leasten to all views and follow the best as per 3918 and we should all be ever mindful to verify everything that we hear as per 1736.
Now my question to you is why God did not say regarding five times but three times? How can you explain this? What are these two private Salaat times mentioned in 2458 so different from the other three salaat times? And why it says other then these three private times we can intermingle? Maybe im wrong but I do not see any salaat during this intermingling, do you?
God bless all of you here because I learned so much.
FJ -
Peace be upon you Al Khidr,
Yeah, you call me by my name if you dont want to get punched in your mouth. Hopefully I would be able to transcend that and react properly however.
Ooop!! threatening language .... o
Peace all,
how do you call that kind of language then ?
all by al khidr
Below is your foolish statement
(2) In the hood you know what we call Black men such as yourself
For one you sound like a kafirAnd this was just on this page. Yes, not threatening, but not really a good way to lead a constructive discussion either.
Can't we get back on track here ?
lk
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Peace be upon you Al Khidr,
You have said the following
IF1
?Yeah, you call me by my name if you dont want to get punched in your mouth. Hopefully I would be able to transcend that and react properly however.?If I read it correctly, uncle tom, it sounds like you said you will punch me in the mouth.
Yes, you read it correctly. But I also said I hope I would be able to transcend that improper behavior and ignore your foolishness.
If this is the case that you are actually saying you will punch me in the mouth must be direct result of your cowardly Muslim nature.
No, it is the direct result of some of my negative conditioning from growing up in Philadelphia. I do a good job at ignoring such negative thoughts but from time to time an ignorant person will come to test my spiritual work to inform me of my progress.
I guess idolfree you have to play tough guy before your Progressive Muslim audience.
Believe as you wish. I won't follow you any longer in the footsteps of shayteen. Hopefully you will take a turn in the right direction as well, if not, well I live in Philadelphia.
Its so easy to make such declarations on the internet (cyber space apart from one another) but in the real world idolfree we all know you?re the type with shaky knees who flees.
little buddy, you are really putting me through a test, but I will just respond to you with "Peace".
You gave us a good laugh for today, keep up your Richard Pryor comic act, we find it amusing.
I notice you said "we" a lot. Thats what the cowards do, they never step to the plate by themselves, always calling for help.
I apologize to everyone else reading this thread for my responses to AL "must be a" kidder. I am finding it very difficult to respond properly and I am very sorry to waste your time with this.
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Peace be upon you,
Ooop!! threatening language ....
My apologies, that was not the proper response for one following the God's instruction.
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Peace be upon you Elke,
Can't we get back on track here ?
Yes. My apologies for adding to the delay.
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Peace be upon you,
I would like to repeat FJ's last question to get us back on track.
Brother Al-khidr how do you explain verse 2458 where the three times are mentioned? Why did not God say regarding 5 times but He mentioned only three times and two of them are private Salat times? What are these two private Salat times mentioned in this verse that are different from the other three times? And why it says other then these three private times we can intermingle? I do not see any Salat during this intermingling, do you?
Here is the verse
2458 O you who believe, let those who are your dependants and have not yet attained puberty request your permission regarding three times Before the Salat, and should you put off your attire from being outdoors, and after the Salat made at dusk. These are three private times for you. Other than these times, it is not wrong for you or them to intermingle with one another. God thus clarifies the revelations for you. And God is Knowledgeable, Wise.This is the second time I am asking you these questions because the first time I asked you did not answer them. Maybe you felt they are not so important and you ingnored them altogether, but they are important for me. So please take some time out of your busy day and answer them honestly.
Anyone can answer not only Al-khidr even though I addressed the questions to him because I would like to hear his opionion.
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Peace all,
how do you call that kind of language then ?
all by al khidr
Below is your foolish statement
(2) In the hood you know what we call Black men such as yourself
For one you sound like a kafirAnd this was just on this page. Yes, not threatening, but not really a good way to lead a constructive discussion either.
This is precisely the point. Sarcasm or name calling is one thing, while threatening to attack someone physically is quite another issue, and sounds a lot more serious. It's totally against online etiquettes. That's the way I personally think.
Can't we get back on track here ?
Wavering from the "track" is FM's hallmark of 'intellectualism.' It's a secret strategy that helps to avoid an acknowledgement of the validity of the original topic. It happens in every thread. One just cannot miss it ... ;D
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Salaam Sister Zainab
I am glad that you made that point becuase some here cannot analytically make the distinction.
Salaam
Peace all,
how do you call that kind of language then ?
all by al khidr
Below is your foolish statement
(2) In the hood you know what we call Black men such as yourself
For one you sound like a kafirAnd this was just on this page. Yes, not threatening, but not really a good way to lead a constructive discussion either.
This is precisely the point. Sarcasm or name calling is one thing, while threatening to attack someone physically is quite another issue, and sounds a lot more serious. It's totally against online etiquettes. That's the way I personally think.
Can't we get back on track here ?
Wavering from the "track" is FM's hallmark of 'intellectualism.' It's a secret strategy that helps to avoid an acknowledgement of the validity of the original topic. It happens in every thread. One just cannot miss it ... ;D
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Wa Laykum As Salaam idolfree or kyle
You have said below ?from time to time an ignorant person??
?No, it is the direct result of some of my negative conditioning from growing up in Philadelphia. I do a good job at ignoring such negative thoughts but from time to time an ignorant person will come to test my spiritual work to inform me of my progress.?
idolFree who is really displaying the ignorance? You so-called pseudo-Muslims cannot even prove your ?3 Salaat Thoery?. And you on the other hand with your mystical babble who falsely claims to know the elite African scholars should be a shamed of yourself, all the way from the lack of your Black consciousness to your sectarian Moslem beliefs. In one of your previous post you have mentioned verifiable evidence and the people are still waiting for your verifiable evidence? So actually idolfree I think time has proven who is really ignorant (which means to lack knowledge of something), especially of this subject.
You have said this
?Believe as you wish. I won't follow you any longer in the footsteps of shayteen. Hopefully you will take a turn in the right direction as well, if not, well I live in Philadelphia.?
Notice that you ended with ?well I live in Philadelphia?, like that meant something. You did not provide the address tough guy. Like I have said previously, this level of talk coming from you is a joke and we kyle or idolfree know that, especially when we are cyber space apart from one another. But your ego and your cowardly Muslim nature causes you to play the tough guy role before your Progressive Muslim audience. Keep up the Richard Pryor comic act, it funny. We need entertainment like that every now and then.
On a personal note, you idolfree need to retire from debating. I strategically got to your head and you lost composure. Every body cannot survive in the atmosphere of DEBATE because psychological warfare is augmented on a higher level and only the wise will come out on top. Turn the torch over to someone else who is mentally keen to manifest on this level.
Since you idolfree do not have evidence for your false belief of the ?3 Salaat Theory?, I see that you are trying live and die off of FJ question. My question to you is this, are you really serious about that question? Do you Muslims read the Qur?aan? Or just pick and choose what you want like some of the Children of Israel
Qur?aan 285
Yet, here you are killing each other, and evicting some of you from their homes, banding against them sinfully and maliciously. Even when they surrendered, you demanded ransom from them. Evicting them was prohibited for you in the first place. Do you believe in part of the scripture and disbelieve in part? What should be the retribution for those among you who do this, except humiliation in this life, and a far worse retribution on the Day of Resurrection? Allah is never unaware of anything you do.All you have to do is take your eyes out of 2458 and read the rest of Al Qur?aan and you will see the 5 Salaat which are prescribed by Allah. It?s a beautiful Book, why don?t you try it. But to see clear evidence with some people it?s a hopeless cause
Qur?aan 1746
And We placed shields around their hearts, to prevent them from under standing it (the Qur?aan), and deafness in their ears. And when you preach your Lord, using the Qur?aan alone, they run away in aversion.Qur?aan 4724
Why do they not study the Qur?aan carefully? Are their minds blocked?This debate idolfree has been over a long long long time ago. Pheonix1 came out and attempted to salvage the ?3 Salaat Theory? with his illogical approach to the ?glorification/meditation/praise? in Al Qur?aan and I clearly/concisely addressed that but I have not really found a need or purpose to respond in this thread any more. But I see you brought me out with your comic antics and shuffling again so I decided to respond to you and FJ?s question.
http//www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/3salaattheoryexposed.htm
http//www.freewebs.com/suprememathematics/grabbingforstraws.htm
http//www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/wakaszeehlatifdebate.htm
Qur?aan 2543
Have you seen the one who has taken his ego as his god? Will you be a caretaker over him?Translated by Progressive Muslims
Salaam
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Salaam FJ
FJ you have said this
?Brother Al-khidr how do you explain verse 2458 where the three times are mentioned? Why did not God say regarding 5 times but He mentioned only three times and two of them are private Salat times??
I believe one of the biggest mistakes that you are making is assuming that all 5 Salaat is supposed to be mentioned in that one verse (245. Allah has revealed 114 Chapters and over 6000 verses and it amazes me to see that you would think all 5 Salaat would be mention in that one verse. It would be nice if Allah fed spooned us like that, but sometimes we have to put in a little work ourselves. This question ?Where are the 5 Salaat in Al Qur?aan? have already been addressed and answered in my original rebuttal and you can also find them here at my following post in this thread
Post on July 02, 2006, 095316 PM
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=6028.210Other then my original rebuttal this link will answer your question in a condensed form or fashion. It is very clear that we have 5 Prayers or Salaat mentioned in the Qur?aan and pay close attention to which Salaat period I listed 2458 at. FJ, it is really no purpose to present information that has already been addressed over and over again, we want to avoid going around in circles and circles. You have said that you have read my original rebuttal and I want to thank you for that but did you over look the following Salaat periods I listed in my original rebuttal?
(1) The Dawn Prayer (Fajr) given in 11114, 2458
(2) The Noon Prayer (Zuhr), given in 1778 and 3018
(3) The Afternoon Prayer (Asr), given in 2238
(4) The sunset Prayer (Maghrib), given in 11114
(5) The Night Prayer (Isha), given in 2458I want to quote an excerpt from a debate that Basma Khalifa had with Omar Edibat on Salaat. Below is what she said in response to a similar question like yours
?Reading throughout the Quran and examining its pattern, we can easily see that information and specifications for certain matters are scattered throughout the Quran. We conclude orders and laws by looking at the whole context of the Quran. We get the whole picture of the Hajj by examining several chapters of the Quran (2, 5,9,22, 4. The month of Ramdan and fasting is specified over many verses in chapter 2, while the Night of Power is exclusively mentioned in chapter 97. The whole picture of divorce is scattered throughout chapters 2, 4, 33, 60, 65, 66.
So it's not unusual for the five prayers to be mentioned in several verses. We cannot dictate the way God is presenting his truth. We all know by now that every word, every letter, every verse number and even the order of verses is precisely chosen, measured and is a part of a very complicated mathematical structure. Our vision of what makes sense and what doesn't is so limited and needs to be questioned and evaluated all the time.?
The purpose as to why I quoted this is to raise the conscious level of understanding that sometimes to get the message Of Allah we have to obtained it from different parts of the Qur?aan. I personally do not know why you would think all 5 Salaat would have to be mentioned in that verse (245 alone. All you have to do FJ is read those verses that I provided to you and you can clearly see that Allah has mentioned 5 periods to observe Salaat. If you can?t see that, I don?t know what else to say.
Below you FJ have said the following because I have asked you what position that you stand on, 5 or 3 Salaat
?Brother to be honest I like your article but I have not yet decided which side to stand on when it comes to observing salaat. Brother with this question and the way you sometime behave I feel like you are trying to force your decision... I hope you are not counting how many of us accepted your explanation.?
It is very clear that you FJ have developed preconceived ideas as to why I have asked you that question. There are many reasons why I may ask that question and of course I will not waist my time listing all the reasons but for one just to give you an insight-sometimes it helps me to know where a person is at in terms of this heated debate, whether they believe in 5 or 3 or if they are in the middle and don?t know because just a little piece of information like that can help me understand what angle or route I should take in answering some one?s questions or respond to their challenges etc. So I hope that you can understand something as elementary as that.
You have said this
?I have been reading everything I can and am trying to follow the best and that is because I do not speak Arabic and thus am dependend on your explanations.?
FJ I have used Arabic in my original rebuttal entitled ?Exposing The 3 Salaat Theory? but to be truthful with you, this subject does not take Arabic knowledge to know something simple as to whether or not Allah revealed 5 or 3 Salaat in the Qur?aan. I personally think that there are other things people need to remove in order for them to see the clear evidence or truth of this subject matter and its not Arabic. As the late great Ahmed Deedat use to tell the Christians ?remove the spiritual blinders? and then you will see. It amazes me to see how this subject 5 or 3 Salaat is only an issue among Progressive Muslims. We Muslims all over the world whether we follow Qur?aan alone or the traditionalist know that Allah has prescribed 5 Salaat in the Qur?aan. To us this subject matter is clear as day light itself?
http//www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/3salaattheoryexposed.htm
http//www.freewebs.com/suprememathematics/grabbingforstraws.htm
http//www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/wakaszeehlatifdebate.htm
Salaam
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Salaam Sister Zainab
I am glad that you made that point becuase some here cannot analytically make the distinction.
Salaam
Peace all,
how do you call that kind of language then ?
all by al khidr
Below is your foolish statement
(2) In the hood you know what we call Black men such as yourself
For one you sound like a kafirAnd this was just on this page. Yes, not threatening, but not really a good way to lead a constructive discussion either.
This is precisely the point. Sarcasm or name calling is one thing, while threatening to attack someone physically is quite another issue, and sounds a lot more serious. It's totally against online etiquettes. That's the way I personally think.
Can't we get back on track here ?
Wavering from the "track" is FM's hallmark of 'intellectualism.' It's a secret strategy that helps to avoid an acknowledgement of the validity of the original topic. It happens in every thread. One just cannot miss it ... ;D
Peace
funny how some can always and ever only see their own side. And you go on with sarcasm, but without logic. Why should physical threats be against online etiquette - even though one can be quite sure the computer is not going to hit you - but sarcasm and name calling are ok ? - Although these are the only ones that can hurt online ?
Don't get me wrong, the threatening is totally out of place for sure, as well.
Now if you were logic and analytical, you would see that all the verses you cited angainst idolfree can also be returned to you. And i would add another, for both of you
An-Nahl - 16.125 . Call unto the way of thy Lord with wisdom and fair exhortation , and reason with them in the better way . Lo! thy Lord is best aware of him who strayeth from His way , and He is best Aware of those who go aright .
elke
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Peace be upon you Elke,
I humbly accept the reminder.
Al Khidr, I have no interest in discussing this any further with you. I do not see any receptivity available from your side so it will be best just to respond with "Peace".
By the way, my position is two salaat, Dawn and Dusk.
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Peace
funny how some can always and ever only see their own side.
If I am, so are you. hence there's no need to elaborate on this one where the other person is only throwing stones ..
And you go on with sarcasm, .... Why should physical threats be against online etiquette - even though one can be quite sure the computer is not going to hit you
If you aren't living in a civilized world, I am ..
The very fact that you've made this comparison between sarcasm and physical threats shows what an inaccurate perception you have.
Whether it be on the internet or in person or on telephone or just about anywhere .. according to the established norms of safety, lashing out with one's tongue is NOT the same as lashing with one's hands. Even a verbal physical threat signifying bodily harm is a breach of security. For this reason, every online Agreement includes this clause about not making physical threats. Yes of course the computer can't hit (what a silly thing to say), but this is how personal enemities build up .. and then who knows to what extent the perpetrator is serious about carrying out his threat? After all, numerous intimidating gestures on the net have actually been carried out in person. Don't listen to me if you don't want to, but simply check the record of the number of violent offences in the 21st century that have originated from the net.
- but sarcasm and name calling are ok ? - Although these are the only ones that can hurt online ?
Clean non-abusive sarcasm or name calling is NOT against the law in any part of the developed world nor on the net. However, the overly touchy & feely ones can feel soppy about it. But that's there problem. If someone calls me 'stupid' or a 'fool,' I can either answer back saying the same or just ignore that person. But in return for such a harmless comment if I threaten to squash that person's mouth, I am most definietely overstepping my bounds.
Moreover, if sarcasm or name calling can "hurt" (whatever that means) as you've so graciously stated .. needless to say, a physical threat would play much, much greater havoc in robbing one's peace of mind in many more ways.
Don't get me wrong, the threatening is totally out of place for sure, as well.
You bet ..
To wrap it up .. the fact is, outside FM forum, no one could care less about their 2 and 3 salaat notions. Nonetheless, all the best to your poor fragile egos!
Last but not least .. for the safety of my cute little nose, I hope admins remain admins and not turn into ruffians P