QURANIC FOLKLORE
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Why Zul-Qarnain of the Quran is not Alexander the great
Popular opinion amongst the Muslims and quite recently, within the mainstream evangelical Christians identify Zul-Qarnian (of the Quran) with Alexander the great. This claim, in the light of history needs to be analysed while keeping in view the sublime story of Zul-Qarnain found in chapter 18 of the Quran. Before we initiate a point-by-point examination of whatever data available on hand, we must bear in mind that Quran does not mention the title "Alexander the great," but rather Zul-Qarnain (two-horned one) which may also mean "period or century." (1) In addition, "who was he? In what age and where did he live? The Quran gives us no material on which we can base a positive answer." (2)Evidence 1
The story of Zul-Qarnain begins in the Quran with"And they ask you about Zul-Qarnain. Say 'I shall recite to you something of his story.' Verily, We established him in the earth, and We gave him the means of everything."
The most important point made in verse 84 is that Allah endowed upon Zul-Qarnain the worldly power and prestige to enable him to rule justly. If a man of God is under the divine protection, then naturally, under no circumstances, the forces of evil can overpower him. Let us now see if, from the following historical record of Alexander the great, we recognise Zul-Qarnain of the Quran, Encyclopaedia Americana teel us under the name Alexander
Alexander "Hearing of the river Indus, ...drove the army eastward across the Hindu Kush (327 B.C.). His army had understood the need to consolidate all the Persian dominion, but believed this new venture to be a madman?s act. Actually, Alexander thought that he was entering the last peninsula of the earth that beyond it lay the Ocean of the East. He reached the Indus with a growing following, a moving state of allied peoples and their families, while his remaining Macedonians laid down pontoon bridges, shored up roads over immense ranges, and fought battles when necessary. Passing from the friendly country around Taxila (near Attock), they encountered the hostile Paurava rajah at the Jhelum River where the Macedonian infantry had to fight against armoured elephants for the first time. Alexander and his spearhead could not approach the elephants, which terrified the horses. This shook the Macedonian veterans who mutinied en masse at the river Ravi. Deeply angered, because he believed the end of the land lay not far off, at Ocean, Alexander was obliged to retreat (326 B.C.)." (3)
From the above narrative, we can easily observe that Alexander?s army considered this new venture to be a madman?s act and running away from the battleground upon seeing elephants in the enemy?s army. Both of these acts are in clear opposition to the verse 84 where Zul-Qarnain is given the utmost power
"Verily, We established him in the earth, and We gave him the means of everything."
When a man of God is given the power to rule justly upon the earth, he?s also sustained by his followers who are ready and willing to follow their leader, and sacrifice themselves for the sake of God. No hardship, calamity or force can play any role against them. But, unfortunately, Alexander?s cowardly actions, such as becoming angry just because he was unable to fight Paurava Raja?s ((a Rajah) belonging to, or descended from Puru, a king of Lunar Dynasty) (4) army which consisted of elephants do not match that of a man of God.
Evidence 2
Zul-Qarnain was indeed a believer in monotheism. In one of his voyages, as described in the Quran, he found some people, and said to them"as for him who believes in (Allah?s Oneness) and works righteousness, he shall have the best reward (Paradise), and we (Zul-Qarnain) shall speak unto him mild words."
On the other hand, we do not find Alexander being a believer in the Oneness of God, as the following record demonstrates it
"Alexander eagerly assimilated the religious mysticism of the Nile and of Magian Persia. Not only did he protect these religions, but also as a sole ruler, he necessarily assumed the semidivine aspect of an Asian despot, wearing Persian attire at ceremonies and accepting prostration in his presence."(5) Furthermore, "Alexander?s greatest work was the spread of Greek influence..." (6)
The comparison so clearly separates Alexander from Zul-Qarnain that no further explanation is needed.
Evidence 3
In Zul-Qarnain?s third voyage, he found a habitation between two mountains whose people asked for his help against the aggression of Gog and Magog - for which they were going to pay him a tribute. And in the words of the Quran, Zul-Qarnain replied to them"(the power) in which My Lord has established me Is better (than tribute.)"
The manner in which Zul-Qarnain responded, is a testimony in itself that he had no interest in the material gain of this world. His mission endorsed by God was to be just and kind to oppressed, and harsh with those who inflict hardship upon the helpless. In contrast, when we analyse Alexander in similar capacity, we get a picture opposite to what has been cited above for Zul-Qarnain
"In Susa and Persepolis his (Alexander?s) headlong pursuit won him the imperial treasure of some 180,000 talents in bullion and coin - so fabulous an amount that he demonetised the gold to equate it with the smaller Graeco-Macedonian silver coinage," (7) and "at Damascus the Persian army?s treasure and supply train were captured, giving Alexander wealth for the first time." (
From these two historical records, can we picture Zul-Qarnain as he is depicted in the above Quranic verse? Obviously not!
Evidence 4
So far, it has been established that Zul-Qarnain of the Quran was a believer in the Oneness of God. In the case of Alexander the great, following few historical accounts further confirm that he was not a monotheist"In the spring of 331 Alexander made a pilgrimage to the great temple and oracle of Amon-Ra, Egyptian god of the sun, whom the Greeks identified with Zeus. The earlier Egyptian pharaohs were believed to be sons of Amon-Ra; and Alexander, the new ruler of Egypt, wanted the god to acknowledge him as his son. The pilgrimage apparently was successful, and it may have confirmed in him a belief in his own divine origin."
"Shortly before he died, Alexander ordered the Greek cities to worship him as a god. Although he probably gave the order for political reasons, he was, in his own view and that of his contemporaries, of divine birth." (9)
Conclusion
In the days gone by, access and availability to social, academic and scientific knowledge was either limited or non-existent. People of learning used to base their opinions on whatever information was on hand. There were also those who accepted matters as conclusive without having first analysed it from all the different angles. In the case of those Muslim commentators on the Holy Quran who identify Zul-Qarnain with Alexander the great, we simply cannot blame them for their erroneous interpretation. The time-domain they lived in and the resources available to them, they, accordingly, explained the Quranic text to the best of their ability. Despite the fact that they were all sincere and good hearted scholars, they were bound to incorporate within their work certain cultural elements of which they were part of"no other man has been claimed - in legends - by so many nations. Egyptian fable makes him god. Arabo-Persian tradition represents Is-kander as a hero-saint." (10)
The only common factor on which these scholars based their opinions is the expeditions carried by Alexander and Zul_Qarnain. Other than this, there are hardly any other characteristics that are common in both.
References
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Cyril Classe, The Concise Encyclopaedia of Islam, Harper & Row, 1989, p_32
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Yusuf Ali, The Holy Quran, note 2428
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Encyclopaedia Americana, Volume 1, p_540
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Margaret & James Stutly, A dictionary of Hinduism, Ronledge & Kegan Paul, 1977
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Encyclopaedia Americana, Volume 1, p_540
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Encyclopaedia of Religion & Ethics, Volume 1, p_307
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Encyclopaedia Americana, Volume 1, p_540
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Ibid., p_539
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Funk & Wagnalls Encyclopaedia, CDROM ver, by future vision multimedia inc., 1995 INFOPEDIA
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Encyclopaedia Americana, Volume 1, p_540
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Hello All
There is a great myth which is circulating on the Internet at present. Christian missionaries are spreading the false information that Zul-Qarnain, a prophet of Islam, is none other than Alexander The Great. There are a few Muslims who agree with them, but this is only because they have never been educated about the character Alexander. Others who subscribe to atheistic or humanist beliefs are propagating the same lies even further. From where they have deduced this absurd estimation we will show below. We will attempt to expose this flawed judgment by using history, the Bible and basic Islamic knowledge.
Alexander was born in 356 BC, and died in 323 BC. He was a deceitful man, who himself claimed to be a god at one point and demanded that others worship him. Is this Islamic? In his 33 years of existence he did not once preach peace, bring justice or enlighten the people. He possessed absolutely no traits of a true prophet whatsoever. All the prophets between Moses and Christ are named explicitly within the Quran and the name of Zul-Qarnain does not show up amongst them.
Most Muslims are silent as to whom Zul-Qarnain really is, and rightly so because not enough clues and pointers exist for them to make the assumption which is better than jumping the gun and making rash conclusions unlike our Christian missionary friends. After much thought and consideration we would like to put forward the possibility that Zul-Qarnain is really King Prophet Atlas who existed during the time of Prophet Abraham and features in the myths and legends (if they are that) of Atlantis, the lost continent.
The Quran mentions Gog and Magog were among the people visited by Zul-Qarnain. According to Biblical scholars, Gog and Magog are a community of people (savages and barbarians) who reside in the North Eastern part of the world (Siberia). Alexander only ever dreamt of reaching Siberia, as we know. Therefore he could not have been the person who visited Gog and Magog. Learnt Christians would agree with us that Gog and Magog date to a period way back in history and would therefore rule out any chance of Zul-Qarnain being Alexander. However there are a community of rather uneducated (about their own faith) so-called Christians who are oblivious to this fact and millions more. They are feeding the minds of the Atheists with rubbish and it is giving way to more ignorance.Zul-Qarnain?s name literally means 'two-horned one'. Zul or Dhul was a common suffix given to the ancient Kings of Yemen. He is termed so simply because part of his outfit was a horned helmet. The Missionaries wild conclusion is derived from the simple coincidence that Alexander also possessed a horned helmet and was also bit of a traveller.
Whose waters are murky?
The following claim is taken from Ali Sina's website and can be found copied and pasted on almost every anti-Islamic site. They make the claim??..
Koran teaches us that the Sun sets in a muddy spring
"Till, when he (the traveller Zul-qarnain) reached the setting-place of the Sun, he found it going down into a muddy spring?"
"Till, when he reached the rising-place of the Sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had appointed no shelter from it..."
(The Quran ; 1890)?Serious scientific errors here! Firstly, it is scientifically accepted fact that, the Sun never go down in a muddy spring.?
They say laughter is good for you, but this is becoming extremely unhealthy. These people go to such lengths in their attempts at highlighting the alleged contradictions or scientific fallacies in the Quran, it's shocking to witness how desperate some people have become. They will twist translations, invent false ideas and inject them into the mind of the new reader in the most rapid way possible.
They try to make the claim that the author of the Quran was scientifically challenged, that he was oblivious to the fact that the sun never actually sets. They also make the savage claim that the same set of verses "prove" that the Earth is flat!
Here is the story of Zul-Qarnain again from the Holy Quran verse 1883-101
?They ask thee concerning Zul-Qarnain. Say, "I will rehearse to you something of his story." Verily We established his power on earth, and We gave him the ways and the means to all ends. One (such) way he followed, Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water Near it he found a People We said "O Zul-Qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness." He said "Whoever doth wrong, him shall we punish; then shall he be sent back to his Lord; and He will punish him with a punishment unheard-of (before). "But whoever believes, and works righteousness,- he shall have a goodly reward, and easy will be his task as We order it by our Command."?Then followed he (another) way, Until, when he came to the rising of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had provided no covering protection against the sun. He left them as they were We completely understood what was before him. Then followed he (another) way, Until, when he reached (a tract) between two mountains, he found, beneath them, a people who scarcely understood a word. They said "O Zul-Qarnain! the Gog and Magog (People) do great mischief on earth shall we then render thee tribute in order that thou mightest erect a barrier between us and them? He said "(The power) in which my Lord has established me is better (than tribute) Help me therefore with strength (and labour) I will erect a strong barrier between you and them "Bring me blocks of iron." At length, when he had filled up the space between the two steep mountain-sides, He said, "Blow (with your bellows)" Then, when he had made it (red) as fire, he said "Bring me, that I may pour over it, molten lead."
?Thus were they made powerless to scale it or to dig through it. He said "This is a mercy from my Lord But when the promise of my Lord comes to pass, He will make it into dust; and the promise of my Lord is true." On that day We shall leave them to surge like waves on one another the trumpet will be blown, and We shall collect them all together. And We shall present Hell that day for Unbelievers to see, all spread out,- (Unbelievers) whose eyes had been under a veil from remembrance of Me, and who had been unable even to hear. ?
Lets analyse the two verses put forward
?Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water Near it he found a People We said "O Zul-Qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness".
?Until, when he came to the rising of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had provided no covering protection against the sun.?
The verses narrate part of the story of Zul-Qarnain. Being a great traveller Prophet Zul-Qarnain eventually, at sun set, arrived at a place where there were springs of vast murky waters. He found around it tribes of people, some righteous and some malign. The narration goes on to describe how Zul-Qarnain was given authority to rule over them as a just king. It narrates the version of events as he, Zul-Qarnain saw them ? he saw the sun set in a murky water, nothing wrong with that. The second verse narrates that Zul-Qarnain turned another direction and travelled on until he saw the sun rise and it just so happens that he saw it rise on a people who were without shade. Again, a very simple narration, no claim of being scientific fact.
The idiotic critics who raise this issue and claim that the God of the Quran does not know the simple scientific that the sun never actually sets are barking up the wrong tree. The above verses in no way make the claim of being scientific fact as God sees it. We don?t see God making the claim that the sun sets into murky waters! Or rises on a certain group of people. We simply see God describing things as witnessed by Zul-Qarnain ?
"They ask thee concerning Zul-Qarnain. Say, "I will rehearse to you something of his story".
The sun sets wherever you see it set. If you are on a beach you will see it set into the ocean. If you are on a hill, you will see it set behind the hill.
?Secondly, this seems to presuppose a FLAT Earth, otherwise how can there be an extreme point in the West or in the East? A sunrise there would be basically just the same as at any other place on this earth, at land or sea. It would still look as if it is setting ?far away?. It does say, that he reached THE PLACE where the Sun sets and in his second Journey the place where it rises.?
This is classical anti-Islam rhetoric; putting words into verses in order to support other claims. The gentlemen writes ?this seems to presuppose a flat Earth, otherwise how can there be an extreme point in the West or in the East??. The only translation which narrowly supports his conjecture is the one by Yusuf Ali. The other two main translations are pasted alongside below.
1885
Pickthall ?And he followed a road?
Yusufali ?One (such) way he followed,?
Shakir ?So he followed a course.?1889
Pickthall ?Then he followed a road?
Yusufali ?Then followed he (another) way,?
Shakir ? Then he followed (another) course.?1892
Pickthall ?Then he followed a road?
Yusufali ?Then followed he (another) way,?
Shakir ? Then he followed (another) course.?Figurative reading was never designed for our Atheistic friends, therefore we should pardon them for their ignorance. The narration is pasted above for all to see, nowhere within it is their a reference to an extreme East or West. How these people come to such conclusions really baffles me! It seems that the decision to ridicule Islam is made up long before they go into the Quran looking for supposed incongruities, or do they leave their atheistic tendencies behind? Who knows. They hasten to find something they can please the masses with. The above claim is simply fruitless.
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peace
Incredible Danish. Ahmeds answer managed to fall into every single one of these
Yet, apologists will always attempt to defend Quranic flaws by following ridiculous and incogitant arguments (a) They will blame the translation, (b) will say human being can not understand Allah?s Qudraat, (c) Quran has to be taken (when there is serious flaws) as Allegory/parable, (d) Quranic verses (which has flaws) are only a poetry and not to be taken as real, or (e) at least will say ?mission impossible?, Or, (f) will attack the messenger leaving messages by saying Mr. X or Y is not an intellectual (high quality enough) to comment on Holy Quran?even though Allah repeatedly said ?I (Allah) made the Quran in simple Arabic so that ordinary Arabs can understand it.?
In fact he is jumping around all over the place between them, without giving any explanations as to why one verse is allegory and another is to be taken literreally. Its a very funny deciplne to watch. I think i will call it 100 meter backcrawl from reality.
That said, i agree with Ahmed that the compare to alexander is pretty thin, alltho not unlikely.
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Hey magi
I don't respond or dialogue with clear cut enemy of Islam, and Profiler2006 has updated danish stauts from an "itchy disbeliever" to a "clear cut enemy of Islam" and what I do with those infidels rants is ignoring their bums and just post my refutes to the public
now your current status magi in Profiler2006 is "itchy disbeliever" so be careful or you will join danish soon, i donlt take these decsions it is profier2006 after I feed it with your comments of infidelity
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Peace Ahamedbagaht
What is Profiler2006 how does it work and why would any body need one? Also is this a suni invention or do the sunnies/sheas have there own profiler and what would those profilers class Quran followers as.
I believe I am classed as a Heathen in the Vatican profiler >D
Peace Salim
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Hey magi
I don't respond or dialogue with clear cut enemy of Islam, and Profiler2006 has updated danish stauts from an "itchy disbeliever" to a "clear cut enemy of Islam" and what I do with those infidels rants is ignoring their bums and just post my refutes to the public
now your current status magi in Profiler2006 is "itchy disbeliever" so be careful or you will join danish soon, i donlt take these decsions it is profier2006 after I feed it with your comments of infidelity
yes i better beware of the judgement of the allmighty IBM and codeskills of ahmed. Show me the data. what you and your program thinks of me, means as much to me as...wait...it doesnt mean a damn thing, other then you apprently are a highly judgemental person that develope system to broaden your own comfort zone.
Peace
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Peace Ahamedbagaht
What is Profiler2006 how does it work and why would any body need one? Also is this a suni invention or do the sunnies/sheas have there own profiler and what would those profilers class Quran followers as.
I believe I am classed as a Heathen in the Vatican profiler >
Peace Salim
Peace bro
for someone like me who spent years debating the enemy of Islam as well my own cyber enemy I needed a program to track their profiles so I know exactly each one from the hundreds I dialogue with all over the net for many years now, so I spent 2 years developing this program and btw it is not for sale, I can show you a smaple code only if you like
now for your silly sunni/shia comment, ok, would that be a humor? if yes then let me laugh, Hahahaha, just kiddin bro, well salim, I'm not a sunni nor a shia and never been all my life in fact you will see most quran aloners been ex sunnis unlike me however I'm not a quran aloners either, LOL
My belief is the same, it is firm and stable since I was a teen, and that is what I want really therefore you will see me doing my best refuting the rants and lies of the clear cut enemy of Islam and you need be a firm believer to do as such
Salam
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Peace Ahmed
Could you please show me a sample code, if you could do one of me would be great.
Peace Salim
Ok man other progrmmers on an anti Islam forum thought I was fooling them and they asked to see some code which I did and I never heard from them again, LOL
I need some time bro as it is compiled into an exe file that connectd to a database
for your request regarding making one to you, I'm sorry bro this program is exclusive to my own use as it contains a massive amount of dirty words and profanity
However I can help you with any other database you are after "based on my time availability, I have many that I can sell but for you I will give a free copy if any of my other databases suits you "I have one that does everything for a bedding store with 3 stores in 3 differnt suburbs connecting to the same database, it does everything actually and can be modifed easily to suit any type of business, this one took me about 5 years to make and I'm still developing it, I deign databases for about 10 years now and happy to answer any question you have in that department
Salam
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Peace Salgan
the logic of the program is easy to follow, we dont need to see code for that.
set parameter "=="
IF "disagreement", Mov.l # to folder "infidel". -
Hey magi
I don't respond or dialogue with clear cut enemy of Islam, and Profiler2006 has updated danish stauts from an "itchy disbeliever" to a "clear cut enemy of Islam" and what I do with those infidels rants is ignoring their bums and just post my refutes to the public
now your current status magi in Profiler2006 is "itchy disbeliever" so be careful or you will join danish soon, i donlt take these decsions it is profier2006 after I feed it with your comments of infidelity
yes i better beware of the judgement of the allmighty IBM and codeskills of ahmed. Show me the data. what you and your program thinks of me, means as much to me as...wait...it doesnt mean a damn thing, other then you apprently are a highly judgemental person that develope system to broaden your own comfort zone.
Peace
Hey magi
I Believe You Contradicted Yourself Twice, Read Your Last Two Comments And If You Discovered Your Contradictions I Will Give You A Loli
Salam
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Peace Salgan
the logic of the program is easy to follow, we dont need to see code for that.
set parameter "=="
IF "disagreement", Mov.l # to folder "infidel".Dear magi
In No Way I Will Show Code To Someone Who Knows Nothing About It, Do You Think My Program Code Are One Or Two Pages?, Think Not, My Programs Are Hundreds Of Pages Of Code
Salam
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Peace Salgan
the logic of the program is easy to follow, we dont need to see code for that.
set parameter "=="
IF "disagreement", Mov.l # to folder "infidel".magi
May I Ask What Language Is That?
Cheers
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Peace Salgan
the logic of the program is easy to follow, we dont need to see code for that.
set parameter "=="
IF "disagreement", Mov.l # to folder "infidel".magi
May I Ask What Language Is That?
Cheers
Its a non language. Its code gobbledygook, a demoscene joke. You have part basic, part assembler and part absolute nonsense in one single line
Peace
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Peace Salgan
the logic of the program is easy to follow, we dont need to see code for that.
set parameter "=="
IF "disagreement", Mov.l # to folder "infidel".magi
May I Ask What Language Is That?
Cheers
Its a non language. Its code gobbledygook, a demoscene joke. You have part basic, part assembler and part absolute nonsense in one single line )
Peace
Ok I can teach you how to make "Hello World" program, if you can do that then you are set for life
Cheers
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In No Way I Will Show Code To Someone Who Knows Nothing About It
well then you can safely show it to me. what languages do you use?
Do You Think My Program Code Are One Or Two Pages?, Think Not, My Programs Are Hundreds Of Pages Of Code
Salam
I have yet to finnish a visual demo in less than 10.000 lines of Code. well thats not true, i did do something in the lines of this
x=axh, y=ayh, z=azh (axh)^2+(a*yh)^2=r^2 a=+-r/sqrt(xh^2+yh^2)Peace
editits a raytracer btw. I can write it as raw/uniconx/rexx assembler if you prefer.
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In No Way I Will Show Code To Someone Who Knows Nothing About It
well then you can safely show it to me. what languages do you use?
Do You Think My Program Code Are One Or Two Pages?, Think Not, My Programs Are Hundreds Of Pages Of Code
Salam
I have yet to finnish a visual demo in less than 10.000 lines of Code. well thats not true, i did do something in the lines of this
x=axh, y=ayh, z=azh (axh)^2+(a*yh)^2=r^2 a=+-r/sqrt(xh^2+yh^2)Peace
editits a raytracer btw. I can write it as raw/uniconx/rexx assembler if you prefer.
Good, however I understood nothing of the code you posted, I code in VB only
Salam
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boys, boys
back to the topic, please
)1886 states that he was travelling until he reached an area and HE (thul-qarnein) found the sun setting in the water. That does not mean the sun really was setting in the water. I can say "I went to the shore and watched the sun set into the ocean" It would be really absurd for anyone to really believe that I believe the sun is setting in the ocean. This has nothing to do with making anything into a metaphor, or playing tricks with the dictionary. This is just plain common knowledge. Another example "I walked all the way out to where the sun kissed the earth" Do I really think the sun kissed the earth? Come on folks. It's not rocket science.
Another point to help quran-readers along, Thul-Qarnein was doing the walking and he's the one who found the sun setting in the water - not God. God is only narrating Thul-Qarnein's human experience. (If thul-qarnein is even human).
It's interesting how you made an extraordinary accusation, and then tried to fool people by saying any other explanation is unacceptable. By your accord, we cannot look at the dictionary, we cannot read into the meaning of the words for any metaphor, we cannot look at poetic license, and we cannot speak about God's Almighty Power. And if we do, we are are not to be taken seriously, in fact we are quran apologists. Great subliminal message. You have discredited us before we even posted.
Unfortunately for you, just because you started the thread doesn't mean I have to play by your rules and not use my mind. I will use my intellect and read the dictionary, understanding the meanings, reflect upon God's Awesome Power, and I will refer to common knowledge.
If this is not good enough evidence but your argument that "oh look the sun sets in the water how dare someone say that" is good evidence, then who is the one being blind?Peace All
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In No Way I Will Show Code To Someone Who Knows Nothing About It
well then you can safely show it to me. what languages do you use?
Do You Think My Program Code Are One Or Two Pages?, Think Not, My Programs Are Hundreds Of Pages Of Code
Salam
I have yet to finnish a visual demo in less than 10.000 lines of Code. well thats not true, i did do something in the lines of this
x=axh, y=ayh, z=azh (axh)^2+(a*yh)^2=r^2 a=+-r/sqrt(xh^2+yh^2)Peace
editits a raytracer btw. I can write it as raw/uniconx/rexx assembler if you prefer.
Good, however I understood nothing of the code you posted, I code in VB only
Salam
Thats a nice language, i havent been using it all to much myself, but i do understand the syntax. So lets see some of the code. becasue what you claim to have developed, is a tassid knowlledge type program, and you can get billions for a working version. as several people have tried for 25 years. This is altso why im rather sceptical about its actual capability to single out people based on whole conversations.
There is a bug in the formula i posted on second thought, nice one for showing myself off, lol. -[ Good thing you didnt type it, and took me up on it ;D
Peace
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1886 states that he was travelling until he reached an area and HE (thul-qarnein) found the sun setting in the water. That does not mean the sun really was setting in the water. I can say "I went to the shore and watched the sun set into the ocean" It would be really absurd for anyone to really believe that I believe the sun is setting in the ocean.
1500 years ago to the majority of people that was the truth. If you said the sun set on the water on the edge of the world. Their reality is now our analogy for some reason.
It's interesting how you made an extraordinary accusation, and then tried to fool people by saying any other explanation is unacceptable. By your accord, we cannot look at the dictionary, we cannot read into the meaning of the words for any metaphor, we cannot look at poetic license, and we cannot speak about God's Almighty Power. And if we do, we are are not to be taken seriously, in fact we are quran apologists
No it is in the inconsequent way those ereas are used. If the verse is shot down as being ludicris, then suddenly its symbolic, if the symbol is blown to bits because it makes little sense, then its a metaphor and so on. And i have seen in many discutions here how the same verse is used as all 3, depending on the situation in which its taken out of its context to prove someones personal point.
If it wasnt so inconsequent, i would feel different about it.Peace