Djenna & Gehenna; explanation
-
Peace
I don't understand what you're saying.
Also, I'm not saying it can't be a place. That is one interpretation. We all have interpretations. What I'm saying is it being a place is not the only possibility.
Peace OM
Bro you adding apossiblity that Allah never ever suggested as well what He said totally demolish that possibility so insisting on it is SHIRK
Peace
-
Peace all,
Well the problem is that we again do not distinguish between THE MECHANISM and THE PURPOSE!
1- WHY SOMETHING HAPPENS? TO WHAT END?--> WHY THE HEART OF THE PATIENT IS OPERATED? (tabyeen)
2- HOW SOMETHING HAPPENS? HOW SOMETHING UNFOLDS-->HOW THE HEART OF THE PATIENT IS OPERATED?(tashreeh)peace,
-
Peace
I don't understand what you're saying.
Also, I'm not saying it can't be a place. That is one interpretation. We all have interpretations. What I'm saying is it being a place is not the only possibility.
Peace OM
Bro you adding apossiblity that Allah never ever suggested as well what He said totally demolish that possibility so insisting on it is SHIRK
Peace
Peace ab
If heaven is really a place with flowing streams and the best mates, why would God call these descriptions allegorical? Explain to me your thoughts on mathal.
Peace
-
Peace,
To clarify, Djenna and Jahannam first begin in the mind. Your mindstate determines your responses to your surroundings. So if you have a Jahannam mindstate, you create Jahannam around you. You will not find peace in this mindstate, you are neither alive or dead. You will do deeds that will destroy yourself, as only trough following God's revelation, people will find the perfect knowledge to progress themselves to the fullest, as indivuduals as well as a society.
As Djenna is the ground of your conciousness and will create a peacefull mind and by thus a peacefull and reality based deeds. As can be seen in these verses
- (It will be said to the pious) "O (you) the one in (complete) rest and satisfaction!
- "Come back to your Lord, Well-pleased (yourself) and well-pleasing unto Him!
- "Enter you, then, among My honoured slaves,
- "And enter you My Paradise!"
Also a country which is not ruled by God's Law is also called Jahannam as it will eventualy destroy itself as only through God's revelation humans will find the best Laws and wisdom to create the perfect society. A country that is ruled by God's revelations is also Djenna, as God's Law will give a perfect society and the best peacefull mind for individuals. As can be seen from the verses 527-16 which talk about a Jahannam society, and 5217-28 which talk about a Djenna society.
So it is a mindstate as well as a physical place. Just like masjid al-haram literally means a place where people bow to God's restrictions. This has to be as your mind/conciousness as well the country you live in. So by this example it is again seen how something is as well talking about a mental place as a physical place.
And Alen, i understand you, but God describes that Heaven is as well here AS in the next life. You cannot say Heaven or Hell are only in the next life. And heaven and hell cannot be described as everyone will experience happiness and sadness in a different way. I can write down how the cookie will tast for me, but you can experience that cookie in a total different matter. And that it cannot be described, is partialy also because following God's laws will create progress unimaginable. Look at modern technology now, isn't that unimaginable for people 100 years ago?
Imagine the freedom, joy and progress of a society based on God's laws, it will create things unimaginable.
3217 So no self knows what I hide for them from an eyes'/sights' delight/satisfaction , a reward/reimbursement because (of) what they were making/doing .
And the Djenna in the next life will be truly unimaginable, as our technology now is unimaginable for people 100 years ago. In the next life we will be so far off, i will not discuss that.
The main purpose is to show is it is US that will create Djenna or Jahannam. It are OUR mindstate and the results of those mindstates that will create Djenna or Jahannam now and in the next life. Waiting for Djenna in the next life has created Jahannam now on earth!!! There is no real progress and we are working our way towards WW3. That it so important people have to understand the real purpose of God's revelation and what He uses as examples of results of following those laws. You don't earn Djenna by waiting and praying. You have to create Djenna by working hard to imply God's Laws here on earth, using prayer and fasting for a peacefull mindstate, and taking action to create a peacefull land. You see, Djenna as well mental as physical....
Do people think Muhammed created such a perfect state just by praying and waiting? No, they knew it was them, themselves who created Djenna. So stop waiting and hoping for something you have to create yourselves. That is what the whole Quran is about, action! Don't look at the tree waiting till the apple falls, you are hungry now, so pluck it by using your God given powers and using the wisdom God gave us in His revelation.
Peace
-
Hello Arnold, OM, CavemanDoctor and All
Let?s look at the following verses and we will see with the naked eye (metaphor) that Jahannam has to be a physical place, being a state of mind won?t fit in these verses
99- And on that day We will leave a part of them in conflict with another part, and the trumpet will be blown, so We will gather them all together;
100- And We will bring forth hell, exposed to view, on that day before the unbelievers.
(99)
(100)-> 1899 is telling us about the moment or resurrection ? and the trumpet will be blown, so We will gather them all together?, then in 18100 Allah is telling us what will happen next ? And We will bring forth hell, exposed to view?, see the Arabic words ? ? and ? ?,, ?Aradana Arda? this is actually means, ?IT IS SHOWTIME?, I?m not kiddin here mates, it means 100% ?IT IS SHOWTIME?, so how our state of minds will be on show for all to see?
Now the showtime has started, we will see that Jahannam has 7 gates
43- And surely Hell is the promised place of them all
44- It hath seven gates, and each gate hath an appointed portion.
(43)
(44)-> See how in 1543 we read ? surely Hell is the promised place?, the word used is ??, ?Mawiduhun?, which we use for specify a meeting place in Arabic or to specify a time, in here it has to be a place because in 1443 we read ? It hath seven gates, and each gate hath an appointed portion?, i.e. a description to that place, now how our state of minds will have 7 gates?
Now we know it has 7 gates, ;et?s see what will happen next
71- And those who disbelieve shall be driven to hell in companies; until, when they come to it, its doors shall be opened, and the keepers of it shall say to them Did not there come to you messengers from among you reciting to you the communications of your Lord and warning you of the meeting of this day of yours? They shall say Yea! But the sentence of punishment was due against the unbelievers.
72- (To them) will be said Enter ye the gates of Hell, to dwell therein and evil is (this) Abode of the Arrogant!
(71)
(72)-> Now how the disbelievers will be driven to the state of minds in comoanions? ?And those who disbelieve shall be driven to hell in companies;? then how the gates or the state of minds will open?, ?until, when they come to it, its doors shall be opened?, and how the keepers of the sate of minds tell us the following? ?and the keepers of it shall say to them Did not there come to you messengers from among you reciting to you the communications of your Lord and warning you of the meeting of this day of yours??, well does the state of minds has keepers?, what is ironic that the disbelievers will respond back to the keepers of the sate of mind ?They shall say Yea! But the sentence of punishment was due against the unbelievers.?, well well well, it seems according to this flawed understanding the disbelievers will convict themselves and admit that they have to enter that state of mind ? the sentence of punishment was due against the unbelievers.?, I wonder why they always try to escape from the sate of mind and they come out of it then they are forced back into it? didn?t they agree in here that they deserve to enter the state of mind?
-> In 3972, we read Allah ordering them to enter the state of mind through the gates of then state of mind after talking to the keepers of the state of mind ?(To them) will be said Enter ye the gates of Hell, to dwell therein and evil is (this) Abode of the Arrogant!?, see it says ? dwell therein?, now if they suppose to dwell therein forever, how they can come out monetarily to escape the state of mind?
As to those who are rebellious and wicked, their abode will be the Fire every time they wish to get away therefrom, they will be forced thereinto, and it will be said to them Taste ye the Penalty of the Fire, the which ye were wont to reject as false.
(20)
-> See, ? time they wish to get away therefrom, they will be forced thereinto?, now who is talking here?, ? and it will be said to them Taste ye the Penalty of the Fire, the which ye were wont to reject as false?, is it the state of mind talking to them here?, but why they try to escape if they convicted themselves with the highest level of remorse in 3971 ? They shall say Yea! But the sentence of punishment was due against the unbelievers.?
There is more to come, I just have to take the daughter to school then head to work as well the movie is underway
Salam all
-
Peace,
AB i have to go to bed now. Can you wait with posting new verses till i have answered these ones tommorow? I would appreciate it, then the thread will not become so cluttered and confusing.
-
Sure mate
-
Arnold, and all, please stick to the subject "Jahannam"
Thanks
-
Peace ab
If heaven is really a place with flowing streams and the best mates, why would God call these descriptions allegorical? Explain to me your thoughts on mathal.
Peace
Peace OM
Firstly Allah didn?t call the description ?allegorical?, He was giving us EXAMPLES of what heaven will look like, in fact the word Mithl or Mathal, means ?Like?, ?for example?
I can I say I?m Tall Mithl Amood El Noor, while this is clearly a metaphor, the facts remains intact
- I exist
- I?m very tall
In fact the word mathal is very common in Arabic, it hardly means talking about something that does not exist, at least one of the things it compares MUST EXIST id not both, it is only the relation between the two objects that we are trying to use metaphorically to make it easier to comprehend
I can say I was flying with car Mithl Al Tiaraa, clearly 2 metaphors in here
- I was flying
- My car like a plane
While this sound insane the facts remains
- I was driving my car
- I was driving very fast
Now we also use the word to give an example to something using a real fact, for example I can say my car color is the mithl the color of your shirt,
The whole statement is 100% a fact because your shirt color happens to be the same color as my car and the word used is Mithl, the sommon and street labgugae for Mithl is ?Zai?
Another wide use of the word Mathal is found at schools and unis exams, they ask the students in the exams almost in every question
To give Amthilah to something, Amthilah here is the plural of mathal, and the statmenet means ?To give EXAMPLES for something?, now all the examples given must be facts based on some scientific theories or logical foundations, I.E 100% facts
In the case with heaven the word was used to give us an example of the real heaven will look like because we can?t see it yet, and Allah is using examples to make it comprehendible to us so we realize what is in stake and work hard to prosper, the example given about paradise in no way means that paradise is a metaphor, exactly as I say I?m tall Mithl Amood Elnoor, in fact both me and Amood El Noor exist
Cheers
-
Peace
Ahmed, good explanations. Since you wish to focus on Jahannam, there is an obvious possible explanation why there is a place called Jahannam near Jerusalem, and that is maybe it was revealed to previous prophets that the name of hell is Jahannam in the hereafter, and so they called a place by that name, however Quran refers to the true meaning ie Hell is Jahannam in hereafter.
Taking a more inquisitive approach to the subject of language it is very mysterious how it originated and developed, and it is well known that cultures do borrow from one another specific words, and also most obviously from Allah's revelations too, a good example is referring to planets as Kawkab which was unheard of in those times...
Even though I use the Quran a lot, I find it hard to refer to specific verses, but I think in Surat Al-Room, Allah (SWT) refers to the differences in languages between human communities as being one of His potent signs.
And Allah knows best.
Salam
Noble
PS My own hypothesis (to be proven of course) is that Languages initially emerged via Divine Interventions through Prophets and Messengers, the first of which being Adam, witness when Allah says He taught Him All the Names. Another explanation is that Allah hardwired into humans the capability to express themselved verbally, together with that of coding that capability into writing, as witnessed by Surat AlAlaq and AlQalam, in other words everything comes fully from Allah anyway...
So how about this controversial statement This Life we live is the Allegory, and the Hereafter is the Real Life (you will find this expressed in the Quran as an Ayat). -
Peace be upon you Noble,
Eliminate death then if you are truthful
What does that have to do with eliminating the pain response? I just finished giving the example of the Monk who lit himself on fire and DIED without flinching, but then you challenge me to avoid death? I dont understand.
In any case, I assume you agree with the point I was making about pain since you are familiar with meditation.
-
Peace upon you idolfree1
Well the Monk could not eliminate his death. Pain is a very useful safety device, but also a good deterrent. Physical pain can only be eliminated up to a threshold, I do take pills as I have a very low threshold to pain, particularly mental. Hypnosis/Meditation also help me, but a continuous assault of physical pain will make me feel it after a while. That being said, eliminating pain if it occurs will not stop the damage to the physical body (to take a crude example, maybe a monk could stop the painf from having a limb severed, still he will end up with one less limb). Physical pain if extremely imtense will be felt ultimately, ask any cancer survivor...
Anyways this distracts us from the interesting debate between Ahmed and Arnold, bring the popcorn and the Coke lol...
Not that the subject matter is very serious indeed being barbecued is not my idea of having fun...
Noble out -
Peace,
Peace
Ahmed, good explanations. Since you wish to focus on Jahannam, there is an obvious possible explanation why there is a place called Jahannam near Jerusalem, and that is maybe it was revealed to previous prophets that the name of hell is Jahannam in the hereafter,This cannot be so as Ja means valley, and Hannam was the name of the valley, So Jahannam of the Quran is named after the valley not the other way around, otherwise it would have been called hannam and not JAhannam.
and so they called a place by that name, however Quran refers to the true meaning ie Hell is Jahannam in hereafter.
The Quran talks about Jahannam and Djenna to be here and in the hereafter, as can be seen in verses as
- And whoever is blind in this world, will be blind in the Hereafter, and more astray from the Path.
3133 Move forward eagerly to the tranquil security that comes from your Lord, and to the Paradise(Djenna) that transcends spatial boundaries, encompassing the Heavens and the Earth. It has already been prepared for those who live upright.
Taking a more inquisitive approach to the subject of language it is very mysterious how it originated and developed, and it is well known that cultures do borrow from one another specific words, and also most obviously from Allah's revelations too, a good example is referring to planets as Kawkab which was unheard of in those times...
Just like english is build up from celtish, dutch, french, latin and greek, so is arabic build up from at least 7 different languages, and there are hundreds of words having an non-arabic background. Jahannam was a hebrew term for misery and destruction of life. That it is borrowed is no surprise. Just like hades is the greek-underworld, and is still used today in english to denote an awful place but not a burning underworld....
Peace
-
Arnold, and all, please stick to the subject "Jahannam"
Peace,
You just bring in the verses you want to show, but when it is neccesary i will bring in Djenna as sometimes you can only explain - through explaning +.
-
Hello Arnold, OM, CavemanDoctor and All
Peace
1899 And We left some/part of them that time (to) trouble/agitate (interlock) in some/part, and the horn/bugle/instrument was blown in, so We gathered/collected them all together .
These verses are talking about Gog and Magog(harmfull nations), as can be seen by the verses preceding these 2. In verse 99, it clearly talks about the nations being in great conflict which each other, and 'the trumpet will be blown' refers to a momentus period, a time of change and importants, and 'We collected them all together' refers to where the people will have one common goal and they will all strive to reach that goal.
100 And We displayed/presented Hell (on) that day to the disbelievers a display/exhibition .
Because of this common goal (which is most likely to be greed, lust, wealth, power and so on) they will be confronted with misery, as a man-made system can never prevail, and following lust and wealth will only create unbalance and will eventualy turn against them.
This can be seen with wars as WW2, which was truly a Jahannam on display, and now with Iraq, where the sunnis and the shias are in conflict over each other, while in the same time having the same goal. Because of this, they are creating Jahannam.101 Those who their eyes/sights were in a cover/concealment from My remembrance/reminder, and they were not being able (of) hearing/listening .
102 Did those who disbelieved think/suppose that they take My slaves (as) guardians/allies from other than Me? We have prepared/made ready for the disbelievers Jahannam (as) a place of descent .
These people don't accept God's guidance and rather listen to human made laws. Because like the shias and sunnis are following man-made concepts(take My slaves (as) guardians/allies from other than Me) instead of the Quran , they are destined to create misery and will not progress as a people( prepared/made ready for the disbelievers Jahannam (as) a place of descent ).
1543- And surely Jahannam is the promised place of them all
44- It hath several gates, and each gate hath an appointed portion.
The seven in verse 44, can also mean several as for example in 229. It refers to the multiple ways in how humans can create Jahannam in their mind and in their surroundings. It has several gates or ways to enter misery, just like there are several ways to start a war, the conflincts can also be called gates towards war. So the gates refer to certain deeds, acts and thinking which are gates towards misery. Greed, racism, lust, dictatorism, lies, rejection of truth are all gateways towards misery and will create Jahannam in your mind and in the land.
3971 And those who disbelieved are driven to Jahannam (in) groups/gangs until when they came to it, (then) its doors/entrances were opened, and its safe keepers said to them "Did not messengers from you come to you, they read/recite on (to) you your Lord's evidences/verses , and they warn/give you notice (of) this your time, this meeting?" They said "Yes/certainly." And but the torture's words/expression became deserved/a fact on the rejectors.
Like mentioned earlier, only through God's guidance people will attain the perfect society and balance on earth, a peacefull minstate and peacefull land. So when the nations who neglected God's guidance have fell into destruction, they will be confronted by the nations and/or people who do follow God's guidance, and they will have to admit that they were warned for following their greed and lusts, and that it will make them fall into misery(Jahannam). It can be seen now already in the West, were people are unhappy, even though they have all they want, as they're trapped in following wealth and status. The human-system doesn't work, and Nature and 3world countries are being destroyed because of the lust of the West.
72 (It) is said "Enter Hell's doors/entrances, immortally/eternally in it, so how bad (is) the arrogants' residence/dwelling ?"
Enter misery in your mind and land for not following God's guidance.
3220 As to those who are rebellious and wicked, their abode will be the Fire every time they wish to get away therefrom, they will be forced thereinto, and it will be said to them Taste ye the Penalty of the Fire, the which ye were wont to reject as false.
Again people who are 'rebellious', as refering not to accept God's guidance, will not attain a peacefull mind state, as well as a peacefull land. You can see that only those who are wicked and rebelious will stsay in the Fire. This refers to that as long these people will remain rejecting God's guidance and/or commiting harmfull deeds, they are in the Fire, in a mindstate in which they will not progress. Fire refers to that it consumes everything and cannot feed anything, this compared to the streams and fruits of Djenna. So they will not progress as a society or individual. This stagnated position will disapear as soon those people will stop being rebelious and/or wicked.
Remember that when people fall into misery, they will acknowledge that following God's guidance is the best way. So falling into misery(jahannam) is also a lesson. Jahannam is called maula/protector in 5715 of the rejectors, as refering it to be a between phase, and also called umm/mother in 1019, which refers that Jahannam is a lesson to them for knowing that following lusts will not attain them anything. It is a classroom that will show them their way will get them nowhere. Jahannam mindstate is only a between-phase between believing in illusion and reality, following God's guidance and following human ideas, which is why everyone will see Jahannam, once in their excistence 1971. This verse beautifully shows that everyone in their lifetime has one time neglected following God's guidance which in the end gave them misery.
That Jahannam is a between phase can also be seen at the use of fitnah in 2191, 292&10, where it refers to the trials for the believers. Fitnah comes from the meaning of purifying gold or throwing in rubbish to the fire. Which refers to loosing illusions that will create bad fruits/results, as they are confronted with the truth during those fitnah's. The gold=nafs must be cleaned of all veils/illusions as in 1746, so it can attain the higher mindstate. In 3763 people in Jahannam will also get fitnah, which refers to the tree of zaqum.
As shown by the word Djenna=garden covered in foilage, the ground refers to the nafs which has certain knowledge, which will create certain deeds=trees, and the fruits are it's results. So is the tree of zaqum a deed which is called a fitnah 3763, a purifying deed. Zaqum means literally, a tree with small round leaves without thornes, it has a penetrating smell and is bitter, the tips of the leaves are filthy tasting.
So for them it is purifying, but this purifying will be experienced as eating something filthy. It is falling into destruction which will taste bitter, but is in the same time a purifying thing, as they have at least lost the concept that lusts will get them anywhere. So the are purified from the concepts of following their own desires and neglecting God's guidance.
Peace
-
Peace
OK Brother Arnold, I want peace with you, so Hell is both physical and mental.
Whatever starts first, the chicken or the egg...
Anyways I take the literal view, and I am 100% convinced of it.
Jehannam before or after, doesnt matter, the map is not the territory, just a name...
And also mental pain and anguish can be more painful than physical Alfitnatu Ashaddu mina alQatl...
Stilll, if we are not careful we will make a very good barbecue with stones on JD. elektro
Salam
Noble -
peace
I don't think heaven and hell are physical places because the idea of going to a physical hell or heaven originated from Zoroasterainism (I murdered the spelling of that word) and made it's way into christianity and Islam. Unless I'm wrong.
And putting people in hell for eternity doesn't make God very forgiving either...
-
Peace folks,
1899 And We left some/part of them that time (to) trouble/agitate (interlock) in some/part, and the horn/bugle/instrument was blown in, so We gathered/collected them all together .
These verses are talking about Gog and Magog(harmfull nations), as can be seen by the verses preceding these 2. In verse 99, it clearly talks about the nations being in great conflict which each other, and 'the trumpet will be blown' refers to a momentus period, a time of change and importants, and 'We collected them all together' refers to where the people will have one common goal and they will all strive to reach that goal.
Quote a verse to confirm your personal view.
100 And We displayed/presented Hell (on) that day to the disbelievers a display/exhibition .
Because of this common goal (which is most likely to be greed, lust, wealth, power and so on) they will be confronted with misery, as a man-made system can never prevail, and following lust and wealth will only create unbalance and will eventualy turn against them.
So!
This can be seen with wars as WW2, which was truly a Jahannam on display, and now with Iraq, where the sunnis and the shias are in conflict over each other, while in the same time having the same goal. Because of this, they are creating Jahannam.
War is jahannam on display? rotfl
101 Those who their eyes/sights were in a cover/concealment from My remembrance/reminder, and they were not being able (of) hearing/listening .
102 Did those who disbelieved think/suppose that they take My slaves (as) guardians/allies from other than Me? We have prepared/made ready for the disbelievers Jahannam (as) a place of descent .
These people don't accept God's guidance and rather listen to human made laws. Because like the shias and sunnis are following man-made concepts(take My slaves (as) guardians/allies from other than Me) instead of the Quran , they are destined to create misery and will not progress as a people( prepared/made ready for the disbelievers Jahannam (as) a place of descent ).
Following silly conjectures of science which changes every day. (aspirn is good for heart asprin is bad for heart, asprin is good for heart).
1543- And surely Jahannam is the promised place of them all
44- It hath several gates, and each gate hath an appointed portion.
The seven in verse 44, can also mean several as for example in 229. It refers to the multiple ways in how humans can create Jahannam in their mind and in their surroundings. It has several gates or ways to enter misery, just like there are several ways to start a war, the conflincts can also be called gates towards war. So the gates refer to certain deeds, acts and thinking which are gates towards misery. Greed, racism, lust, dictatorism, lies, rejection of truth are all gateways towards misery and will create Jahannam in your mind and in the land.
a) Seven gates could mean several.
b) Gates is way of misery
c) Gates refer to deeds
d) Conflicts can also mean gatesAnymore conjectureing ?
3971 And those who disbelieved are driven to Jahannam (in) groups/gangs until when they came to it, (then) its doors/entrances were opened, and its safe keepers said to them "Did not messengers from you come to you, they read/recite on (to) you your Lord's evidences/verses , and they warn/give you notice (of) this your time, this meeting?" They said "Yes/certainly." And but the torture's words/expression became deserved/a fact on the rejectors.
Like mentioned earlier, only through God's guidance people will attain the perfect society and balance on earth, a peacefull minstate and peacefull land.
So!
So when the nations who neglected God's guidance have fell into destruction, they will be confronted by the nations and/or people who do follow God's guidance,
So!
and they will have to admit that they were warned for following their greed and lusts, and that it will make them fall into misery(Jahannam).
Misery = Hell ? rotfl
It can be seen now already in the West, were people are unhappy, even though they have all they want, as they're trapped in following wealth and status. The human-system doesn't work, and Nature and 3world countries are being destroyed because of the lust of the West.
So!
72 (It) is said "Enter Hell's doors/entrances, immortally/eternally in it, so how bad (is) the arrogants' residence/dwelling ?"
Enter misery in your mind and land for not following God's guidance.
Lost!
3220 As to those who are rebellious and wicked, their abode will be the Fire every time they wish to get away therefrom, they will be forced thereinto, and it will be said to them Taste ye the Penalty of the Fire, the which ye were wont to reject as false.
Again people who are 'rebellious', as refering not to accept God's guidance, will not attain a peacefull mind state, as well as a peacefull land.
Lost!
You can see that only those who are wicked and rebelious will stsay in the Fire. This refers to that as long these people will remain rejecting God's guidance and/or commiting harmfull deeds, they are in the Fire, in a mindstate in which they will not progress.
Lost!
Fire refers to that it consumes everything and cannot feed anything,
Really? (dont bother to prove, I wont argue with someone who play with words)
this compared to the streams and fruits of Djenna. So they will not progress as a society or individual. This stagnated position will disapear as soon those people will stop being rebelious and/or wicked.
rotfl
Remember that when people fall into misery, they will acknowledge that following God's guidance is the best way.
Really ?
Misery could come as a test in life for believers. And not everyone acknowledge tht following Allah's guidance is the best way.So falling into misery(jahannam) is also a lesson.
Once again!
Misery = Jahannam ? rotfl rotflJahannam is called maula/protector in 5715 of the rejectors, as refering it to be a between phase, and also called umm/mother in 1019, which refers that Jahannam is a lesson to them for knowing that following lusts will not attain them anything. It is a classroom that will show them their way will get them nowhere. Jahannam mindstate is only a between-phase between believing in illusion and reality, following God's guidance and following human ideas, which is why everyone will see Jahannam, once in their excistence 1971. This verse beautifully shows that everyone in their lifetime has one time neglected following God's guidance which in the end gave them misery.
That Jahannam is a between phase can also be seen at the use of fitnah in 2191, 292&10, where it refers to the trials for the believers. Fitnah comes from the meaning of purifying gold or throwing in rubbish to the fire. Which refers to loosing illusions that will create bad fruits/results, as they are confronted with the truth during those fitnah's. The gold=nafs must be cleaned of all veils/illusions as in 1746, so it can attain the higher mindstate. In 3763 people in Jahannam will also get fitnah, which refers to the tree of zaqum.
As shown by the word Djenna=garden covered in foilage, the ground refers to the nafs which has certain knowledge, which will create certain deeds=trees, and the fruits are it's results. So is the tree of zaqum a deed which is called a fitnah 3763, a purifying deed. Zaqum means literally, a tree with small round leaves without thornes, it has a penetrating smell and is bitter, the tips of the leaves are filthy tasting.
So for them it is purifying, but this purifying will be experienced as eating something filthy. It is falling into destruction which will taste bitter, but is in the same time a purifying thing, as they have at least lost the concept that lusts will get them anywhere. So the are purified from the concepts of following their own desires and neglecting God's guidance.
Tinhk Aiagn!
There are 10s of question here, but useless to aruge with someone who changes the language, changes the words and changes the meanings just to fit a personal view.
Peace
-
peace
I don't think heaven and hell are physical places because the idea of going to a physical hell or heaven originated from Zoroasterainism (I murdered the spelling of that word) and made it's way into christianity and Islam. Unless I'm wrong.
Yes you are wrong
wait for my movie and you will know that you are wrong
-
Peace
So Bro Arnold, in your opinion since we are operating at a different level, as you say, which level is better your level or my level? am I inferior to you or you are inferior to me, just puzzled about your comments on this Level business/
hehe
Noble out