"those who believe and do good works" - 2:62 and 3:21
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Peace be upon you
Peace Ahmed
If a believer keeps doing evil without repenting and amending isnt this ascribing partners to God since doing evil will constitute to serving the evil one (also your self or ego and worldly and material possessions) and will not constitute to serving God only.
Since ascribing partners by thought, word or action will not be forgiven on the Day of Judgment.
Of course
Cheers
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Peace warner and all. The beliefs/theories are things like a single day of judgement,pork being forbidden,the quran being unchanged literally for 1400 years,the jinns being made from fire etc,etc...In other words,they are not proven,but believed because people think that god/quran wants/expects them to believe in them...
Even if you follow 1736 to verify these 'beliefs',i dont see how these beliefs can be verified until they happen? Or can they?
Many people believe things because they feel not believing in them will cause them to be lesser or bad muslims,so they believe out of pressure and fear,not because they have verified the beliefs and found them to be correct... -
Peace warner. Some folks can verify god by explaining the concept of god in a different manner....Check idolfrees' posts on how to verify god,quran,scriptures,messengers etc...
Take it easy. -
Peace Enquirer,
It?s a great new way to believe in God and messengers. ?I am not really sure about God but if you want to know you can read through Idolfrees 3000 different posts and try to verify?.
Can you please tell me do you believe or not or else at least explain the ?concept of God in a different manner? without running to Idolfree and without being so secretive about God and put us out of this misery of wrong understandings. Surely you should have some idea by now on your own.
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Peace warner. I personally do not need any concept of god to keep me happy...I look to cause and effect my friend....I directed you to idolfree because his interpretation of god is one i partly can live with,and can be verifed partially....I appreciate the guy has 4000+ posts....Check the search engine if you have time.....If a person called god nature or reality i could live with that as well.....In numerous posts i have stated my views on god/concepts of god....I only have 1500+ posts so there are less to look at.... I could be called an atheist by some,but i do verify that humans have power,gravity has power,animals have power,as do all the ingredients/entities that make up reality and nature...I dont verify that there is ONE entity/god in full control and possesing all power,eg i reject pure monotheism.
What does god mean to you?
ps;i dont want to speak on behalf of idolfree,but i think his view is that the subjective part of god is our 'conciousness',and the objective part of god is the conciousness of the whole of all that exists,along with all the universal laws/cause and effect which this 'objective' part brings about.....I may be wrong in exactly how idolfree defines god....maybe other folks can reference his work...
Take it easy... peace -
Hei Brother Ahmad,
I've tried to explain what I mean to as good as I can. But you do not understand me, nor do I understand you. So I am following Savage_carrots advice to leave it after we have made our points. And here is my point
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And God will save those who were righteous as their reward. No harm will touch them, nor will they grieveAs to what is righteous
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Piety is not to turn your faces towards the east and the west, but piety isA)
1 - one who believes in God
2 - and the Last Day,
3 - and the Angels,
4 - and the Scripture,
5 - and the prophets,B)
6 - and he gives money out of love to the relatives,
7 - and the orphans,
8 - and the needy
9 - and the wayfarer,
10 - and those who ask,
11 - and to free the slaves;
12 - and he honours the oath of allegiance,
13 - and he contributes towards betterment;
14 - as well as those who keep their pledges when they make a pledge,
15 - and those who are patient in the face of good and bad and when in despair.These are the ones who have been truthful, and they are the righteous.(ny own numbering)
A third of rigtheousness is about belief. Two thirds are about good actions.
Satan, a rejecter, did not deny part A - he has no doubt about them whatsoever. He was in a state of certainty that no human can reach. Yet, he is a rejecter. Why? He failed to uphold part B.
Nadeem
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Peace Enquirer,
Its a great new way to believe in God and messengers. I am not really sure about God but if you want to know you can read through Idolfrees 3000 different posts and try to verify.
Can you please tell me do you believe or not or else at least explain the concept of God in a different manner without running to Idolfree and without being so secretive about God and put us out of this misery of wrong understandings. Surely you should have some idea by now on your own.
LOL bro
surely he must be following Idolfree insights , then why he didnlt tyell you about it?
well here is one "Mohammad never existed because he was a metaphor"
Good luck warner
Cheers
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Peace
With all respect to my brothers and sisters in the forum I guess the story of Satan being a believer (or not) is a useless argument. There was nothing for Satan to believe, in fact he was a witness according to the Quraan. Satan saw it, knew it. Satan was there in Gods presence with the angels, refused to bow to Adam, mislead Adam and Eve and challenged God that he will lead many astray. When you know a fact for certain the question of believing does not arise.
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Peace Enquirer
as do all the ingredients/entities that make up reality and nature...I dont verify that there is ONE entity/god in full control and possesing all power,eg i reject pure monotheism.
What are ?all the ingredients/entities that make up reality? ?
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Peace warner. These ingredients are all the 'things' that we know,and also all those things that we dont know...
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Peace Enquirer
Peace warner. I personally do not need any concept of god to keep me happy...I look to cause and effect my friend....I directed you to idolfree because his interpretation of god is one i partly can live with,and can be verifed partially....I appreciate the guy has 4000+ posts....Check the search engine if you have time.....If a person called god nature or reality i could live with that as well.....In numerous posts i have stated my views on god/concepts of god....I only have 1500+ posts so there are less to look at.... I could be called an atheist by some,but i do verify that humans have power,gravity has power,animals have power,as do all the ingredients/entities that make up reality and nature...I dont verify that there is ONE entity/god in full control and possesing all power,eg i reject pure monotheism.
What does god mean to you?
ps;i dont want to speak on behalf of idolfree,but i think his view is that the subjective part of god is our 'conciousness',and the objective part of god is the conciousness of the whole of all that exists,along with all the universal laws/cause and effect which this 'objective' part brings about.....I may be wrong in exactly how idolfree defines god....maybe other folks can reference his work...
Take it easy... peaceI am trying to fathom your above explanations.
According to you,
God is cause and effect, nature or reality
Since Humans have power, gravity has power, animals have power, and all the ingredients/entities that make up reality and nature God can not have all the power. Can you explain a little more please?
Since according to you subjective part of God is our consciousness, God could not have existed before us. So rather God is our creation (creation of our consciousness) rather than we are His creation.
And I do not understand how you mixed ?our consciousness? and ?consciousness of the whole of all that exists with all the universal laws/cause and effect? to create a God which you are happy with. Can you explain please?
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Peace
With all respect to my brothers and sisters in the forum I guess the story of Satan being a believer (or not) is a useless argument. There was nothing for Satan to believe, in fact he was a witness according to the Quraan. Satan saw it, knew it. Satan was there in Gods presence with the angels, refused to bow to Adam, mislead Adam and Eve and challenged God that he will lead many astray. When you know a fact for certain the question of believing does not arise.
Hi Bro Warner!
That further solidifies my argument. If certainty and knowledge cannot save one from becoming a rejecter, than what can mere belief do?
Just to clarify, I believe that there is a difference between what is normally recognized as "belief" and the quranic usage of "belief". I believe that the former manifests itself in ackowledgment of something, whilst the latter manifests itself in the attidude of someone. In my posts, like this one, is use the word belief as it is normally understood.
Nadeem
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Peace Enquirer
as do all the ingredients/entities that make up reality and nature...I dont verify that there is ONE entity/god in full control and possesing all power,eg i reject pure monotheism.
What are all the ingredients/entities that make up reality ?
Peace warner. These ingredients are all the 'things' that we know,and also all those things that we dont know...
Peace Enquirer
I can not understand how you connect ?all those things we do not know? to ?reality?. How can something we do not know be real?
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Peace warner. Do you know everyone who inhabits the earth? No,but they still exist,yes?
Also,when man didnt know about the existence of dinosaurs,atoms and such like,it didnt mean those things didnt exist,or hadnt existed....So i make an allowance for things undiscovered,or things that are not perceived by our ordinary senses. peace handshake -
Peace warner. Do you know everyone who inhabits the earth? No,but they still exist,yes?
Also,when man didnt know about the existence of dinosaurs,atoms and such like,it didnt mean those things didnt exist,or hadnt existed....So i make an allowance for things undiscovered,or things that are not perceived by our ordinary senses. peace handshakePeace Enquirer
So God can exist and be real although we do not know and also not perceived by our ordinary senses
Do you think Moses , Jesus and Muhammad are liars( or maybe metaphors ) ?
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Peace Nadeem
It strengthens your argument because you are comparing x with y. Believing and being righteous is to do with mankind and not with Satan. His belief and submission is not asked for. Satan is rejected by God and Satan?s destiny is hell. But man has an opportunity to escape the fire so man needs to believe and do good.
Can psychopaths claim insanity in a court of law?
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Peace Warner. I greatly respect idolfrees verification method,his controlling of emotions philosophy,and his idea of reconditioning our behaviour through meditation/salat,but i dont follow all his other conclusions....
Moses,jesus and muhammed? From what i read of their scriptures,they are either mad or misunderstood or mistaken...Or all three...
Yes god could exist in theory unperceived to some degree,but so could the tooth fairy...
muscle peace handshake -
Peace Nadeem
It strengthens your argument because you are comparing x with y. Believing and being righteous is to do with mankind and not with Satan. His belief and submission is not asked for. Satan is rejected by God and Satan?s destiny is hell. But man has an opportunity to escape the fire so man needs to believe and do good.
Can psychopaths claim insanity in a court of law?
You cannot really believe that. I must be misreading you. Do you really believe that satan was never asked to believe and submit? Then why is he in hell? What is his crime? That he did not follow gods orders? Why should he? No one asked him to!
I cannot believe that. Satan was just as obligated to follow god, as we are, maybe even more.
As to psychopath claiming insanity... I don't know.
I'm not a fan of the insanity loop hole, nor am I educated in psychology.
Can I ask why you asked this question?
Nadeem
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Peace Enquirer
So did you add tooth fairy to ?all those things we do not know that make up reality? but did not add God? Thanks for admitting tooth fairy is your God to ?some degree?.
Idolfree?s verification method is based on the Quraan (and other scriptures) I guess. So don?t you think you are wasting your time reading idolfrees 4000 explanations on the Quraan while writing 1500 posts on the Quraan and scriptures you perceive to be mistaken and misunderstandings sheer madness?