You Have Been Warned
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Peace bro "AB",
This has been discussed in great detail before at the following links
http//19.org/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=3391&start=0&rid=222&S=959ad3c8526c525709339038b171b59c (I debate on this very issue in great detail with a sunni "Damnare Sathani"
http//19.org/forum/index.php/m/24404/222/ (Yuksel explains)
http//www.yuksel.org/e/religion/saqar.htm (Which one do you see , reg. chp 74, Hell or Miracle?)
http//19.org/index.php?id=76,263,0,0,1,0 (A Part related to this from "Intg ppls guide to code-19" NOTE Red part is Ayman's claim and black Yuksels rebuttal)
Please read them through thoroughly before the same things are repeated.Now lemme make one point clear. If we read 7431 your way then it's the fitnah of no 19 which shoulve convinced the People of the Book. Could you please tell me how many people from them were convinced by the Fitnah? On the contrary the code made people believe and strengthen their faith. Checkout
http//19.org/index.php?id=76,249,0,0,1,0GOD Bless!
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Peace bro "AB",
Peace bro
I stand firm to what I said, Allah does not need us to worship Him, it is a law that He created and He created us for that reaosn only , we are talking Hell here we are not talking Paradise
Motivation needs reward not punishment
Just a side note bro, I would like to discuss 7431 with you, whenebver you have time
Salam
JK- Youve still not told me why does GOD then need to warn us of punishment also if we do wrong? Regarding 7431 go through the links i posted. GOD Bless!
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Thanks JK
Give me some time to go through but I will respond here please not there
time to go to work
Salam
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Peace Ahmed,
Again you need reward for motivation
Wrong. I suggest you invest in an English dictionary.
to say the punshment is a reward is ttter non sesne
Of course it's nonsense...no one even said that.
I leave you in peace.
Tay
great bro
then olease explain to me again how hell can motivate people?
cheers
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Peace
This debate about motivation is not very productive.
Here is my opinion (I am a fluent english speaker)
In english motivation is usually used with a reward, ie it encourages someone to move towards doing something and then reward the action.
However if you want someone to move away from something, you use fear, which is a deterrent, or moving away from what will cause or be associated with pain or discomfort.
I think neither of the above apply to fear of Allah.
Therefore I invite you to stop debating this
And Allah knows best -
Peace bro "AB",
JK- Youve still not told me why does GOD then need to warn us of punishment also if we do wrong? Regarding 7431 go through the links i posted. GOD Bless!
Peace bro
I went through the first two links, and I'm sorry the two brothers in there clearly refuted this allegation of a code in the Quran
for your question, Allah has to warn us of a punishment in advance so we will not have an excuse, in fact this is what He said in the Quran, i.e. Allah won't punish us unless His warnings are delivered
Salam
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Peace
This debate about motivation is not very productive.
Here is my opinion (I am a fluent english speaker)
In english motivation is usually used with a reward, ie it encourages someone to move towards doing something and then reward the action.
However if you want someone to move away from something, you use fear, which is a deterrent, or moving away from what will cause or be associated with pain or discomfort.
I think neither of the above apply to fear of Allah.
Therefore I invite you to stop debating this
And Allah knows bestThat is exactly right bro, it is called Motivation VS Warning = Garden VS Hell
Salam
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Peace Bro
This is why we have to find a better translation in english to the verb khashia, because if it means fear according to english, it will lead to moving away from Allah, since if I am fearful of something, I move away from it.
It also means the english language does not have all the nuances of Arabic.
For me, I used to translate Khashiati Allah as being in awe of Allah, which means high respect and humble reverence, and being pretty close to fear, but not having the inferred meaning of wanting to move away from... -
Peace Bro
This is why we have to find a better translation in english to the verb khashia, because if it means fear according to english, it will lead to moving away from Allah, since if I am fearful of something, I move away from it.
It also means the english language does not have all the nuances of Arabic.
For me, I used to translate Khashiati Allah as being in awe of Allah, which means high respect and humble reverence, and being pretty close to fear, but not having the inferred meaning of wanting to move away from...Peace bro
Regardless of the english bro, the word mean one thing in Arabic, it means to fear, and Yes bro Allah wants us to fear Him, I can't see anything wrong with that really, He is the creator and we should be fearing Him regardless we like it or not, now those who turn away from Allah because of the word Yakhsha that means to fear, then bad luck to them, they will be barbecued, there is no grey color here bro when it comes to fearing Allah
Salam
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Regardless of the english bro, the word mean one thing in Arabic, it means to fear, and Yes bro Allah wants us to fear Him, I can't see anything wrong with that really, He is the creator and we should be fearing Him regardless we like it or not, now those who turn away from Allah because of the word Yakhsha that means to fear, then bad luck to them, they will be barbecued, there is no grey color here bro when it comes to fearing Allah
Fearing an "Allah" is historically correct but realistically, scientifically and logically incorrect.
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This is a good opportunity to see how a discussion works
DanishFearing an "Allah" is historically correct but realistically, scientifically and logically incorrect.
My questions
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Why is it 'realistically' incorrect? Please define 'realistically' and your evidence that this definition is wholly objective.
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Why it 'logically' incorrect. Kindly show the propositions and deduction and tell us why your propositions and deductions are objective.
I ask the people who believe in AQ to kindly witness how a discussion takes place.
Danish, awaiting your response.
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This is a good opportunity to see how a discussion works
I ask the people who believe in AQ to kindly witness how a discussion takes place.
You're already starting a battle ground by your statements above. You could have started without these inference of mischieveousness and go straight into discussion by asking the following
My questions
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Why is it 'realistically' incorrect? Please define 'realistically' and your evidence that this definition is wholly objective.
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Why it 'logically' incorrect. Kindly show the propositions and deduction and tell us why your propositions and deductions are objective.
Danish, awaiting your response.
Your question 1, deviates from subject matter, which is "fearing Allah" as claimed? If you need definitions of words, then check dictionaries.
Secondly, I'm still awaiting responses from others to the following, since it all relates to an historical man-made deity named "Allah" (from al-ilah)
Peace all,
My approach towards certain verses mentioned above in relations to 7431 and others comes from analysing historical significance. It has nothing to do with "afterlife" or code-19. If I bring my thoughts into this, I'm sure I'll be bashed out by some belligerents unecessarily and become a battle ground. What say you? Do I get a green light?
I shall surely respond accordingly, no doubt.
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Peace Ahmed, noble, all,
Ahmed, I will give this one last chance despite noble's suggestion
then please explain to me again how hell can motivate people
This, fortunately, is an easy one...Some people are motivated to do 5 daily "prayers" out of a fear of going to hell for not doing them. They go on to tell others that if they don't pray, they'll burn in hell. In fact, they even emphasize the details, ie, people will have to do their "prayers" in the fire, and there faces and hands and feet and knees will be burning until they complete all the "prayers" that were missed.
Fear is a motivator. Ask any psychologist on the planet and they will tell you people make decisions and changes in behavior based on either their desire to avoid pain (fear) or their desire to gain pleasure (reward).
Now please don't sart with the "nice try..." "thanks for the laugh..." and the "mate you're really twisting..." stuff - please. If you're honestly seeking my understanding, there it is. If not, then peace be upon you.
-Tay
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Peace bro "AB",
JK- Youve still not told me why does GOD then need to warn us of punishment also if we do wrong? Regarding 7431 go through the links i posted. GOD Bless!Peace bro
here is the verses
Who receiveth guidance, receiveth it for his own benefit who goeth astray doth so to his own loss No bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another nor would We visit with Our Wrath until We had sent an messenger (to give warning).
(15)
-> See. Allah has to warn us in advance otherwise, He can't punsih us
Messengers who gave good news as well as warning, that mankind, after (the coming) of the messengers, should have no plea against Allah For Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.
(165)
-> These warnings came via messegers, hence we can't have any plea with Allah, because Allah delivered what He promised which is to send the warnings of His severe punishment via messengers
Salam
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Peace Ahmed, noble, all,
Ahmed, I will give this one last chance despite noble's suggestion
then please explain to me again how hell can motivate people
This, fortunately, is an easy one...Some people are motivated to do 5 daily "prayers" out of a fear of going to hell for not doing them.
Peace Tay
I don't think so bro, because I don?t pray cause of fear, in fact of I do so I don't think my prayer will be accepted, I pray because I have to worship Allah and I know that Allah can forgive anything except kufr, so I have nothing to worry about indeed, all I cann do is do my best to follow what He wants me to so as a believer, it is all done to pleae Him, not to won something at the end
They go on to tell others that if they don't pray, they'll burn in hell. In fact, they even emphasize the details, ie, people will have to do their "prayers" in the fire, and there faces and hands and feet and knees will be burning until they complete all the "prayers" that were missed.
Bro I don't care about what people say realy, Allah said, ?Wailun Li Al Musalin Al Lazina Hum An Salatihim Sahoon?, I,e, there will be punishment for those who don?t pray exactly as Allah told us. Because anyone who claim to be a believer and careless about his/her salat is a clear cut hypocrite
Fear is a motivator.
Not with you, however good to know that you admitted being motivated by fear, I call this cowardice
Ask any psychologist on the planet and they will tell you people make decisions and changes in behavior based on either their desire to avoid pain (fear) or their desire to gain pleasure (reward).
As if those psychologist will undersrtand better than Allah, well those very psychologist also say homosexuality is ok because it is in the dna of the homos
Now please don't sart with the "nice try..." "thanks for the laugh..." and the "mate you're really twisting..." stuff - please. If you're honestly seeking my understanding, there it is. If not, then peace be upon you.
-Tay
I hope I didn't
cheers
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Hello All
Here is a compelling evidence FROM the Quran, not from bloody dictionaries or some other foreign sources, that the Arabic word ?Yakhsha? is the same meaning as the Arabic word ?Yakhaf?, both means ?To fear?
In the following verse we see Allah is telling us to fear the Judgment Day, He used the word ?Ikhshu?
O mankind! do your duty to your Lord, and fear (the coming of) a Day when no father can avail aught for his son, nor a son avail aught for his father. Verily, the promise of Allah is true let not then this present life deceive you, nor let the chief Deceiver deceive you about Allah.
(33)
In here we see one of the prophets telling his people to believe in Allah alone because he fears the punishment of the JD that they will incur, the word used ?Akhaf?
That you shall not serve any but Allah, surely I fear for you the punishment of a painful day.
(26)
In both verses the words ?Ikhsho? and ?Ikhaf? can only mean ONE THING, which is ?To fear?
Salam
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Bro Ahmed,
Maybe my arabic is not that good then.
OK what is the difference between the word taqwa and khashia? I refer to the ayats where Allah says Attaqu Allha ma astata'a tum, and Attaqu Allah haqa tuqattihi..
I am still not convinced that khashia means only fear. Khaouf yes, but khashia is deeper in meaning. I believes it includes respect/reverence when it is referring to Allah. You cannot just fear Allah as you fear a punishment, even if it is the one of Hell, meaning you put Allah at same level as punishment... And Allah never says to my knowledge Khafuni...
And Allah knows best
Salam Bro