You Have Been Warned

noble

Peace
This debate about motivation is not very productive.
Here is my opinion (I am a fluent english speaker)
In english motivation is usually used with a reward, ie it encourages someone to move towards doing something and then reward the action.
However if you want someone to move away from something, you use fear, which is a deterrent, or moving away from what will cause or be associated with pain or discomfort.
I think neither of the above apply to fear of Allah.
Therefore I invite you to stop debating this
And Allah knows best

unknownuser

Peace bro "AB",

JK- Youve still not told me why does GOD then need to warn us of punishment also if we do wrong? Regarding 7431 go through the links i posted. GOD Bless!

Peace bro

I went through the first two links, and I'm sorry the two brothers in there clearly refuted this allegation of a code in the Quran

for your question, Allah has to warn us of a punishment in advance so we will not have an excuse, in fact this is what He said in the Quran, i.e. Allah won't punish us unless His warnings are delivered

Salam

unknownuser

Peace
This debate about motivation is not very productive.
Here is my opinion (I am a fluent english speaker)
In english motivation is usually used with a reward, ie it encourages someone to move towards doing something and then reward the action.
However if you want someone to move away from something, you use fear, which is a deterrent, or moving away from what will cause or be associated with pain or discomfort.
I think neither of the above apply to fear of Allah.
Therefore I invite you to stop debating this
And Allah knows best

That is exactly right bro, it is called Motivation VS Warning = Garden VS Hell

Salam

noble

Peace Bro
This is why we have to find a better translation in english to the verb khashia, because if it means fear according to english, it will lead to moving away from Allah, since if I am fearful of something, I move away from it.
It also means the english language does not have all the nuances of Arabic.
For me, I used to translate Khashiati Allah as being in awe of Allah, which means high respect and humble reverence, and being pretty close to fear, but not having the inferred meaning of wanting to move away from...

unknownuser

Peace Bro
This is why we have to find a better translation in english to the verb khashia, because if it means fear according to english, it will lead to moving away from Allah, since if I am fearful of something, I move away from it.
It also means the english language does not have all the nuances of Arabic.
For me, I used to translate Khashiati Allah as being in awe of Allah, which means high respect and humble reverence, and being pretty close to fear, but not having the inferred meaning of wanting to move away from...

Peace bro

Regardless of the english bro, the word mean one thing in Arabic, it means to fear, and Yes bro Allah wants us to fear Him, I can't see anything wrong with that really, He is the creator and we should be fearing Him regardless we like it or not, now those who turn away from Allah because of the word Yakhsha that means to fear, then bad luck to them, they will be barbecued, there is no grey color here bro when it comes to fearing Allah

Salam

unknownuser

Regardless of the english bro, the word mean one thing in Arabic, it means to fear, and Yes bro Allah wants us to fear Him, I can't see anything wrong with that really, He is the creator and we should be fearing Him regardless we like it or not, now those who turn away from Allah because of the word Yakhsha that means to fear, then bad luck to them, they will be barbecued, there is no grey color here bro when it comes to fearing Allah

Fearing an "Allah" is historically correct but realistically, scientifically and logically incorrect.

mquran

This is a good opportunity to see how a discussion works

DanishFearing an "Allah" is historically correct but realistically, scientifically and logically incorrect.

My questions

Why is it 'realistically' incorrect? Please define 'realistically' and your evidence that this definition is wholly objective.
Why it 'logically' incorrect. Kindly show the propositions and deduction and tell us why your propositions and deductions are objective.

I ask the people who believe in AQ to kindly witness how a discussion takes place.

Danish, awaiting your response.

unknownuser

This is a good opportunity to see how a discussion works

I ask the people who believe in AQ to kindly witness how a discussion takes place.

You're already starting a battle ground by your statements above. You could have started without these inference of mischieveousness and go straight into discussion by asking the following

My questions

Why is it 'realistically' incorrect? Please define 'realistically' and your evidence that this definition is wholly objective.
Why it 'logically' incorrect. Kindly show the propositions and deduction and tell us why your propositions and deductions are objective.

Danish, awaiting your response.

Your question 1, deviates from subject matter, which is "fearing Allah" as claimed? If you need definitions of words, then check dictionaries.

Secondly, I'm still awaiting responses from others to the following, since it all relates to an historical man-made deity named "Allah" (from al-ilah)

Peace all,

My approach towards certain verses mentioned above in relations to 7431 and others comes from analysing historical significance. It has nothing to do with "afterlife" or code-19. If I bring my thoughts into this, I'm sure I'll be bashed out by some belligerents unecessarily and become a battle ground. What say you? Do I get a green light?

I shall surely respond accordingly, no doubt.

Tay

Peace Ahmed, noble, all,

Ahmed, I will give this one last chance despite noble's suggestion

then please explain to me again how hell can motivate people

This, fortunately, is an easy one...Some people are motivated to do 5 daily "prayers" out of a fear of going to hell for not doing them. They go on to tell others that if they don't pray, they'll burn in hell. In fact, they even emphasize the details, ie, people will have to do their "prayers" in the fire, and there faces and hands and feet and knees will be burning until they complete all the "prayers" that were missed.

Fear is a motivator. Ask any psychologist on the planet and they will tell you people make decisions and changes in behavior based on either their desire to avoid pain (fear) or their desire to gain pleasure (reward).

Now please don't sart with the "nice try..." "thanks for the laugh..." and the "mate you're really twisting..." stuff - please. If you're honestly seeking my understanding, there it is. If not, then peace be upon you.

-Tay

unknownuser

Peace bro "AB",
JK- Youve still not told me why does GOD then need to warn us of punishment also if we do wrong? Regarding 7431 go through the links i posted. GOD Bless!

Peace bro

here is the verses

Who receiveth guidance, receiveth it for his own benefit who goeth astray doth so to his own loss No bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another nor would We visit with Our Wrath until We had sent an messenger (to give warning).

(15)

-> See. Allah has to warn us in advance otherwise, He can't punsih us

Messengers who gave good news as well as warning, that mankind, after (the coming) of the messengers, should have no plea against Allah For Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.

(165)

-> These warnings came via messegers, hence we can't have any plea with Allah, because Allah delivered what He promised which is to send the warnings of His severe punishment via messengers

Salam

unknownuser

Peace Ahmed, noble, all,

Ahmed, I will give this one last chance despite noble's suggestion

then please explain to me again how hell can motivate people

This, fortunately, is an easy one...Some people are motivated to do 5 daily "prayers" out of a fear of going to hell for not doing them.

Peace Tay

I don't think so bro, because I don?t pray cause of fear, in fact of I do so I don't think my prayer will be accepted, I pray because I have to worship Allah and I know that Allah can forgive anything except kufr, so I have nothing to worry about indeed, all I cann do is do my best to follow what He wants me to so as a believer, it is all done to pleae Him, not to won something at the end

They go on to tell others that if they don't pray, they'll burn in hell. In fact, they even emphasize the details, ie, people will have to do their "prayers" in the fire, and there faces and hands and feet and knees will be burning until they complete all the "prayers" that were missed.

Bro I don't care about what people say realy, Allah said, ?Wailun Li Al Musalin Al Lazina Hum An Salatihim Sahoon?, I,e, there will be punishment for those who don?t pray exactly as Allah told us. Because anyone who claim to be a believer and careless about his/her salat is a clear cut hypocrite

Fear is a motivator.

Not with you, however good to know that you admitted being motivated by fear, I call this cowardice

Ask any psychologist on the planet and they will tell you people make decisions and changes in behavior based on either their desire to avoid pain (fear) or their desire to gain pleasure (reward).

As if those psychologist will undersrtand better than Allah, well those very psychologist also say homosexuality is ok because it is in the dna of the homos

Now please don't sart with the "nice try..." "thanks for the laugh..." and the "mate you're really twisting..." stuff - please. If you're honestly seeking my understanding, there it is. If not, then peace be upon you.

-Tay

I hope I didn't

cheers

Tay

Peace be upon you,
Tay

unknownuser

Hello All

Here is a compelling evidence FROM the Quran, not from bloody dictionaries or some other foreign sources, that the Arabic word ?Yakhsha? is the same meaning as the Arabic word ?Yakhaf?, both means ?To fear?

In the following verse we see Allah is telling us to fear the Judgment Day, He used the word ?Ikhshu?

O mankind! do your duty to your Lord, and fear (the coming of) a Day when no father can avail aught for his son, nor a son avail aught for his father. Verily, the promise of Allah is true let not then this present life deceive you, nor let the chief Deceiver deceive you about Allah.

(33)

In here we see one of the prophets telling his people to believe in Allah alone because he fears the punishment of the JD that they will incur, the word used ?Akhaf?

That you shall not serve any but Allah, surely I fear for you the punishment of a painful day.

(26)

In both verses the words ?Ikhsho? and ?Ikhaf? can only mean ONE THING, which is ?To fear?

Salam

noble

Bro Ahmed,
Maybe my arabic is not that good then.
OK what is the difference between the word taqwa and khashia? I refer to the ayats where Allah says Attaqu Allha ma astata'a tum, and Attaqu Allah haqa tuqattihi..
I am still not convinced that khashia means only fear. Khaouf yes, but khashia is deeper in meaning. I believes it includes respect/reverence when it is referring to Allah. You cannot just fear Allah as you fear a punishment, even if it is the one of Hell, meaning you put Allah at same level as punishment... And Allah never says to my knowledge Khafuni...
And Allah knows best
Salam Bro

mquran

Danish You're already starting a battle ground by your statements above. You could have started without these inference of mischieveousness and go straight into discussion by asking the following

The 'battle-ground' as you put it was started for a very simple reason You take every opportunity to malign or belittle AQ. And you know what? I will continue to question every thing you say so that not a single one of your defecations go unquestioned. Lets hope rule 2 makes a comeback.

DanishYour question 1, deviates from subject matter, which is "fearing Allah" as claimed? If you need definitions of words, then check dictionaries.

Lol. How am I deviating from the subject matter. You said 'DanishFearing an "Allah" is historically correct but realistically, scientifically and logically incorrect.'

So the subject matter is still 'fear of allah' and why its 'realistically and logically' incorrect.

The dictionaries do not contain a usage which agrees with your comments.Now kindly tell me what you mean

Why is it 'realistically' incorrect? Please define 'realistically' and your evidence that this definition is wholly objective.
Why it 'logically' incorrect. Kindly show the propositions and deduction and tell us why your propositions and deductions are objective.

DanishSecondly, I'm still awaiting responses from others to the following, since it all relates to an historical man-made deity named "Allah" (from al-ilah)

Your comment was clear. Fearing Allah is realistically and logically incorrect. Now kindly have integrity and show us you know what you actually meant.

Moderators, I invoke rule 2. This person should be made to answer for his critique.

jonny_k

Peace bro "AB",

Peace bro "AB",
JK- Youve still not told me why does GOD then need to warn us of punishment also if we do wrong? Regarding 7431 go through the links i posted. GOD Bless!

Peace bro

here is the verses

Who receiveth guidance, receiveth it for his own benefit who goeth astray doth so to his own loss No bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another nor would We visit with Our Wrath until We had sent an messenger (to give warning).

(15)

-> See. Allah has to warn us in advance otherwise, He can't punsih us

Messengers who gave good news as well as warning, that mankind, after (the coming) of the messengers, should have no plea against Allah For Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.

(165)

-> These warnings came via messegers, hence we can't have any plea with Allah, because Allah delivered what He promised which is to send the warnings of His severe punishment via messengers

Salam

JK- I know GOD always warns before giving punishment. But the qs i asked is why does GOD make mention of hell and it's features at all? He could have just said that those who disbelieved would face severe punishment. Now you get my point? GOD Bless!

Samia

Bro Ahmed,
Maybe my arabic is not that good then.
OK what is the difference between the word taqwa and khashia? I refer to the ayats where Allah says Attaqu Allha ma astata'a tum, and Attaqu Allah haqa tuqattihi..
I am still not convinced that khashia means only fear. Khaouf yes, but khashia is deeper in meaning. I believes it includes respect/reverence when it is referring to Allah. You cannot just fear Allah as you fear a punishment, even if it is the one of Hell, meaning you put Allah at same level as punishment... And Allah never says to my knowledge Khafuni...
And Allah knows best
Salam Bro

Well said , noble. That's what I was trying to say. You put it in a better way.
And if you ask anybody who speaks Arabic if "yakhaaf" and "yakhsha" mean the same, a quick reponse is NO, and they would say that yakhsha has an element of respect, love and more

[

Samia

Peace Samia

Just to let you know that "Khashia" has nothing to do with "Ikhtasha", it is just a case of similar letters and I know this confuses many new Arabic commers, what you should know that the word "Ikhtasha", is the "Masddar" "The root" itself and it is one of those 5 letters roots, like "Igtmaa", "Iktafa", "Izdahara

The Alif and Ta in Ikhtasha CAN NOT BE DROPPED to determine the "Masddar"

Peace Ahmed
Just to let you know that ikhtasha and khashia are two verbs derived form one root. iktasha is a verb of the pattern "ifta3a" known as form 8, khashia is form 1. It is definitely not a masddar.
Also, a 5-letters-root does not exist. All the examples you gave are for verbs of the pattern (, jama3a, kafa, zahara being their (form 1) verbs.

Samia

) How the mountains will be embarrassed from Allah?
2) If the 3 translators above got it wrong translating the word ?Khashia??

Peace Ahmed
Would you please go back to my posting and read it again, if you really want an answer? The answer is there, you just do not give yourself time to read and try to understand.

A quick answer? I did not say any of the above.

unknownuser

Bro Ahmed,

Peace Bro

Maybe my arabic is not that good then.

Even if it is good, it is irrelevant in this case because we have the Quran using the word many times, if the Quran fails to explain it then we can seek the help of those Arabic speakers

Here is my philosophy bro,

I use the Quran to explain itself, (words and context)
If the Quran have not used the word enough or the context is vague then I will seek knowledge from other sources

i.e. bro, I don?t take the words of any human whatever that human knowledge is if what that humans says contradicts the Quran. Very simple logic

the case we have in hand is the word Yakhsha, now we have the following facts

all translators all over the Quran translated the word as to fear in all the locations the word appeared
if the other two proposed understandings (embarrassed or showing respect) are used in many of these location we will end up with either, a non sensible teaching, or a silly verse that does not makes any sense
as far as Arabic knowledge I have, the word Yaksha ONLY MEANS TO FEAR

now what I need from you and sister Samia to prove your case is very simple, you bring a verse in the Quran where the word is used to mean ?show respect, or embarrassed? conclusively and I will have no problem to concede, for example I used to know that the word ?Bushra? is only used for the good news and I argued that with Samia, then when she showed me a couple of verses that conclusively showed the word was used with bad news, I conceded, therefore bro instead of wasting everyone time, I only accept Quran verses as evidences please, it is ironic that the verses I showed so far, neither you nor Samia responded to it to clear my ignorance and show me that the new meanings both of you are proposing will fit like a glove without creating a contradiction, let me show you a few examples

Hast thou not turned Thy vision to those who were told to hold back their hands (from fight) but establish regular prayers and spend in regular charity? When (at length) the order for fighting was issued to them, behold! a section of them feared men as - or even more than - they should have feared Allah They said Our Lord! Why hast Thou ordered us to fight? Wouldst Thou not Grant us respite to our (natural) term, near (enough)? Say Short is the enjoyment of this world the Hereafter is the best for those who do right Never will ye be dealt with unjustly in the very least!

(77)

-> In the above Allah is giving us an example of some coward humans who feared to fight, because they feared their enemy more than they feared Allah ? ? When (at length) the order for fighting was issued to them, behold! a section of them feared men as - or even more than - they should have feared Allah?, now I only see ?to fear? fitting in here, can you please convince me that using ?embarrassed or showing respect? will not make the verse non sensible?

And do not kill your children for fear of poverty; We give them sustenance and yourselves (too); surely to kill them is a great wrong.

(31)

-> Allah is warning us not to kill our new children FEARIN poverty ? And do not kill your children for fear of poverty?, same question bro, can both new meaning apply in here without making the verse laughable?, well possibly being embarrassed of poverty has 2% logic but to show respect to poverty is very laughable indeed, don?t you agree?

Say If you control the treasures of the mercy of my Lord, then you would withhold (them) from fear of spending, and man is niggardly.

(100)

-> In this verse Allah is telling Mohammad to tell us ? Say If you control the treasures of the mercy of my Lord, then you would withhold (them) from fear of spending?, same question my friend, can both meaning fit in here?, well what is the percentage of logic you give to each of the following

Say If you control the treasures of the mercy of my Lord, then you would withhold (them) from respect of spending
Say If you control the treasures of the mercy of my Lord, then you would withhold (them) from embarrassment of spending

I tell you bro I give both 0% logic, because simply, it won?t make any sense

OK what is the difference between the word taqwa and khashia? I refer to the ayats where Allah says Attaqu Allha ma astata'a tum, and Attaqu Allah haqa tuqattihi..

Good question, while I haven?t done enough researches regarding the word ?Itqi?, I can say from the top of my head that this is what can mean ?show respect?, however I see it as ?Avoid being questionable by Allah?, this in effect means to be smart to do what He asked us to do, it has nothing to do with fear, rather being smart.

I am still not convinced that khashia means only fear. Khaouf yes,

Then please convince me USING THE QURAN ALONE, anything else is inadmissible in my religious world, I?m sorry bro

but khashia is deeper in meaning. I believes it includes respect/reverence when it is referring to Allah.

hmmm, so when Allah is telling us ?La Takhshu Al Nas?, it means He istelling us not to show respect to the people?

You cannot just fear Allah as you fear a punishment,

Of course and I never said that

even if it is the one of Hell,

I always differentiated between fearing Allah and fearing His punishment, in fact I stated earlier that Allah can eliminate us without any torture and this is enough to cause fear to me

meaning you put Allah at same level as punishment...

I never did, but I have to say is to take some flawed human words for a new meaning of a word despite He used it many times in the Quran to mean only one thing, is what can be considered what you said above

And Allah never says to my knowledge Khafuni...
And Allah knows best
Salam Bro

But He said ?Ikhshon?, and all the places the word is used in the Quran can only mean one thing which is to fear Him

Salam