You Have Been Warned
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peac mq,
no offence taken peace
my point was, if your post contained nothing but the question in plain language, Danish (or anyone else) would have no reason to be offended, they would have no reason to insult you or "AQ". If he still did insult you, or ignore your question, people would know that he cannot answer it. It's as simple as that until people add all these sour toppings yuck to their pizzas (do not take this literally) when all that's needed, and wanted, is cheese (;D like that).I would recommend that the next time you address a post to Danish, or enquirer, or Truth, or M. Mehdi, or me (eventually...it's a pattern I can't escape), or anyone you don't like, just keep the font plain, avoid smilies and insults.
Because, as I've always said, the focus shouldn't be on who is right and who is wrong, but on WHAT is correct and incorrect.
When we type our posts, we should be at peace, and we should focus on the right thing.
The focus of the whole discussion, the whole forum, is destroyed by offensive posts. -
Peace all,
Just look at how "Danish" believed here
http//19.org/forum/index.php/m/3536/0/#msg_3536
I quote from the aboveSalaams brothers and sisters
- Believe in GOD Alone.
- Believe in Quran Alone.
- Do not idolize Prophet Muhammad or Hazrat Ali or any other human.
- Do not believe in falsehood and conjecture such as hadiths.
- Do not make any partners to GOD or equal to GOD or above GOD while taking GOD's name, specially in prayers.
- The awesome discovery of mathematical code of 19.
- The most accurately and beautifully translated English version of the Quran whilst easy to comprehend alongwith appendices, footnotes, etc.
- Challenging not only the so-called Muslim community but the entire world.
- Facing disastrous consequences to the extent of his own death while announcing his messengership with solid proofs.
ONLY ONE MAN OUT OF THE ENTIRE WORLD STOOD FIRM FOR ALL THE ABOVE AND MUCH MUCH MORE, JUST TO PROVE HIS POINT AND GOT SLAINED. NO ONE DARE CAME FORWARD. MANY, INCLUDING THE SO-CALLED SUBMITTERS, POINT FINGERS FROM EVERY WHICH WAY THEY CAN, YET THERE ARE HUNDREDS, PERHAPS THOUSANDS BECOMING TRUE BELIEVERS EACH DAY, CHANGING THEIR COURSE SURELY BUT GRADUALLY....ALL BUT BY ALLAH'S WILL. THIS MAN WAS RASHAD KHALIFA (pbuh), MESSENGER OF THE COVENANT. Smile
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Because, as I've always said, the focus shouldn't be on who is right and who is wrong, but on WHAT is correct and incorrect.
When we type our posts, we should be at peace, and we should focus on the right thing.Dude, you don't get it, do you ? Once again, no offense but let me spell it out for you, ok
Your beliefs are of no concern to me. We all have to face Allah on our own.
What DOES concern me is what is displayed in this (still called Quranic) forum. We get people who come, criticise AQ and REFUSE TO ANSWER. If they just say 'well, i dont know thats my feeling', that's fine but when someone says 'REALISTICALLY, LOGICALLY AND SCIENTIFICALLY', its referring to an objective epistemology which of course, does not exist. Danish isn't out to discuss anything. He's out to vent and I hope you understand this.
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peace
the above two posts are a great example of how it all starts.
If you're asking a question, why not just ask the question instead of topping it with insults?
and if someone asks you a question (yes you Danish), it's polite to answer it instead of throwing more insults.
grow up!
peacePoliteness and fairness in discussions seems a martian theory in mquran's "dictionary"? Each time I bring about a criticism, he addresses them with 'defecations/unrinations", condemnations and either begins or ends with insulting remarks (as seen above and in all his other posts), which obviously gets retaliated. How can one be polite to begin with while the other impolite to end it, in order to take up any discussion for its intended purpose?
He has already made clear of his position to make this forum a political battle zone. So much for polite and fair discussions. Where do members go from here? As mentioned earlier, everyone must succumb and submit to this hostile, dreadful and dictatorial ayatollah-cum-regime he wants to take over.
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peace Danish, MQ,
why don't you two have a one-on-one debate (not "moderated". Just you two post. Keep out the insults so we can get some things cleared up. And maybe you'll find you agree on more than you think.
and Danish, aap ko meri post ka jawaab dene mein koi etraaz to nahin? "nature of God" section mein.
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Here is another one of mquran's posts which is begging its proper place on this forum
Re The Tragedy of TYRANNICAL-minds (formerly 'free-minds'
? Reply #89 on July 25, 2006, 044137 AM ?
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DanishYou seriously need is a psychiatric help.Those madrassa people really should import a qualified english teacher.
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What is criticism? Lets have a closer look- The act of criticizing, especially adversely.
- A critical comment or judgment.
- a. The practice of analyzing, classifying, interpreting, or evaluating literary or other artistic works.
b. A critical article or essay; a critique.
c. The investigation of the origin and history of literary documents; textual criticism
Your dictionary is not my furqaan. My furqaan is AQ and its concept of jidaal/argumention doesnt include part 3c. It's sad that your limited capacities cannot grasp this, but hey-ho.
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There's no harm per se in saying 'AQ is an old book, not suitable for modern times'
When I and Enquirer mentioned this very statement above, he jumped head-over-heels in defiance and here he is saying that ?there?s no harm?.Did you madrassa teach you to lie or did they forget to teach you how read complete paragraphs? Here's what I said
Criticism is a good thing. There's no harm per se in saying 'AQ is an old book, not suitable for modern times' but if you're going to say it, stand by it. What is modernity and why is it our criteria? This the critics of AQ have refused to face. This isn't about accepting AQ as divine, this is about decency.
It's only a low and deceptive person who would use such tactics. You're really the bottom of the barrel, Danish.
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I think its very clear from this episode that Danish doesn't know what he's on about. He simply says anything he can to disaparage the Quran while not caring about the beliefs of others. Phoenix, if this isnt clear to you, then there's nothing else I cant say. Don't bother calling this guy to debate. He needs to learn the meaning of the word first. Actually, AFTER he learns about 'realistic, logic and scientific'.
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DanishHere is another one of mquran's posts which is begging its proper place on this forum
In case you havent noticed, you deliberately misrepresented my quote there. Did the God you can never know teach you this or was this 'essence of nature' rubbish you keep bandying about?
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Enough has been said about this insane 'ayatollah' and I am done with this thread. I will not respond to this belligerent, bigoted and fanatic mquran unless he stops infiltrated remarks to begin/end his every rebuttal. I shall take my criticisms at the 'divinity' section and hope members can fairly DISCUSS and NOT CUSS around by carefully analyzing my criticisms. I will explain my statements there.
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Peace
Bro Ahmed
Yes it has the same emphasis. However the injunction or order was for the Prophet. I know Allah said He was the ultimate example for us, but I believe that it is very hard for the average believer to have the same faith as the Prophet himself...
Also are there other occurences of the word Khifa that is linked directly as an order to the Muslims, not the Prophet in isolation...
I told you I love arguing, but will probably not keep it up with you )
SalamPeace bro
I meant the same wazn not emphasis, I have to say bro that I can't argue this anymore, 7205 is actually to the believers not specific to the prophet, please read 7204 and you will see what I mean, however even if it is, do you think Allah is ordering the prophet to be humbe and fear Him and not be of the Ghafilin, and thos message os not for us as well?, it does not make sense bro, all the prophets are examples to us
Peace bro
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DanishEnough has been said about this insane 'ayatollah' and I am done with this thread. I will not respond to this belligerent, bigoted and fanatic mquran unless he stops infiltrated remarks to begin/end his every rebuttal.
And unless you actually know what you're talking about. That really helps, you know.
I shall take my criticisms at the 'divinity' section and hope members can fairly DISCUSS and NOT CUSS around by carefully analyzing my criticisms. I will explain my statements there.
Well, as long as you answer. Them's the rules you know, actually proving what one says, unlike schizophrenicforums.com where one changes religion every year...
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Why are you talking about pizza, youre making me hungry.
Ahmed come back, sort out this mess, its your thread rotflGood morning bro
Yeh man what a mess
can I ask all parties to refrain themselves from insults so this thread is noot spoiled?, or I will get into it and bloody spoil it all
Cheers
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Peace Bro Ahmed
May Allah increase me in faith and understanding
Take care
NobleBro
I read the article quickly
not sure what is all about, I senses it is about
- the Quran is created and is not eternal
- those who believe in the Quran are idolising a partner to Allah
is that right bro?
Cheers
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Salam Bro Ahmed
It is about the arguments between muslim scholars as early as 150 AH about whether the Quran is created or uncreated.
This is my comment These arguments even though from the time of Imam Malik show that early muslims scholars could make the mistake of arguing about things they have no knowledge of, and which are of no benefit to them and maybe could harm them because they are talking about matters that are undecidable due to the logical weakness of languages.
They were influenced by the thoughts of the Greek philosophers, and it would have been better for them to focus on translating the Quran to the different languages of the people who embraced Islam, than translate the Greek philosophers writings from Greek to Arabic, and then use that Greek philosophy logic to argue about the Quran.
I believe this is how the decline of the Ummah started...
PS Plus giving the greek heritage back to western civilsation who thank muslims for it, saying that greek civilization is the mother of modern civilzation, meaning the muslims created fitna for the kufars preserving and giving them a non-muslim framework to operate on!!! -
I think the debate between whether the qur'aan is created or eternal is much deeper and entails a lot of difference in understanding some basic things we still argue about.
Those who believe it is created, support their view with the fact that the only eternal "entity" is God, and believing in a seperate eternal thing is idolatory. They also believ that if it were eternal, then the stories about people who were punished were already known to God and decided by Him, and that contradicts the free will of humans. This leads to the debate about "pre-destined destiny".
This was "the mother of debates" that opened the door to many more debates.
Hey! Are we changing "the debate"?
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Salam noble and Samia
Yeh mate, I agree with your views, I really care less it is created or eternal, i only care about its content for that matter, nothing more nothing less, for me Allah words represents Allah because I can't see Allah so His words must be representing Him, it is like I'm hearing Him
Yeh let's change the debate and concentrate on the metaphor thingy
imagine I went to Russia , I'm sure you and Samia know Russia, so Russia for all three of us exist as a place, now I visited a city called BlahBlah in there and told you about it, both of you never heard of that city in Russia, so I strated to describe it to you and said yeh the city BlahBlah is similar to the City NY, where you, me, and Samia knows NYC very well
now from my perspective, both cities BlahBlah and NY exist
and from your perpective ( you and Samia ) you only sure that NYC exicts, and because you trust me then you will take what I said for granted that BlahBlah city in Russia exits, then we end up that the city blahblah exist for all 3 of us, unless there is a reason for me to lie or fabricate the story, and it is quite possible with humans to do as such but I have to ask you both you and Samia, would both of you consider that Allah has no reason to fabricate anything on His creatures, therefore if Allah is telling us that Paradise is like so and so, this means Paraidse exist for real for all us, do you agree?
Salam