Muhammad's Sunnah

Al-Quraishi

Many thanks Adley, peace

adley

Salaam Al-Quraishi,

No problemo ;D

peace

=adley=

unknownuser

Hello Public

Allah clearly told us that He gave Mohammad Al Kitab wa Al Hikmah and also other things that he never knew before, one of those things that humans didn?t know is how to perform the Salat for example, therefore Mohammad mission was to deliver those things to us in addition to the Quran and Hikmah as we will read in the Quran, let me start with verse 4113

And were it not for Allah's grace upon you and His mercy a party of them had certainly designed to bring you to perdition and they do not bring (aught) to perdition but their own souls, and they shall not harm you in any way, and Allah has revealed to you the Book and the wisdom, and He has taught you what you did not know, and Allah's grace on you is very great.

(113)

-> Very clear, Mohammad was given 3 things from Allah

Al Kitab, (The Quran), ? ?, ?Allah has revealed to you the Book?
Al Hikmah, (The wisdom), ? ?, ?and the wisdom?
Other things that Mohammad did not know, ? ?, ?and He has taught you what you did not know?

Now, Mohammad mission was to deliver those 3 things, let?s see how Allah told us about it as well

A similar (favour have ye already received) in that We have sent among you a Messenger of your own, rehearsing to you Our Signs, and sanctifying you, and instructing you in Scripture and Wisdom, and teaches you that which you did not know

(151)

-> Clear as light from 2151, Allah sent His prophet to do the followings

? ?, ?rehearsing to you Our Signs?
? ?, ?and sanctifying you?
? ?, ?and instructing you in Scripture and Wisdom?, obviously we can see that instructing us in the Scripture is something else other than teaching us the wisdom., these are the first two items sent to Mohammad from Allah as we read in 4113
? ?, ?and teaches you that which you did not know?, and here is the third item given to Mohammad from Allah and consequently he delivered it to us and that thing should cover anything that is not detailed in the Quran or Hikmah like the Salat for example.

Those who conjecture that Mohammad mission was to only deliver the Quran need to respond to the above verses as well the following one

And We have not revealed to you the Book except that you may make clear to them (explain) that about which they differ, and (as) a guidance and a mercy for a people who believe.

(64)

-> Above we read that Allah is telling us, Mohammad had another mission in addition to ?deliver the book?, and it is clearly seen in the Arabic verse ? ?, ie. ?Except to Explain to them?, the Ta in the word ? ?, pronounced as ?Le Tobbain? is referring to the prophet and NOT THE QURAN, if it is referring to the Quran then it must be a Ya like this ?? , pronounced ?Le Yobbain?, an example for the word Yobbain with a Ya is seen in the following verse

Allah desires to explain to you, and to guide you into the ways of those before you, and to turn to you (mercifully), and Allah is Knowing, Wise.?

(26)

-> See the Ya instead of the Ta?, ? ?

From the above no one can deny that Allah said to His prophet that He sent the Quran to him to explain to us what we differ and surely the Quran is one of the things that believers will differ in it, ? ?, therefore and clearly the prophet had another mission in addition to the delivery of the Quran, and because the explanation was ASSOCIATED with the Quran only as seen from 1664, then we can use the Quran to qualify what we know about the hadith with ease. In fact one of the hadith that I read confirms that simple fact, that the Quran qualifies the hadith, this is common sense that the words of the Creator should qualify the words of His creatures. It won?t make any sense if taken the other way around.

Finally I brought verse 426 deliberately to show everyone that those who denies the traditions ?The Sunnah? of the believers before us, are opposing what Allah wants for us, let?s walkthrough 426
-> The verse is telling us that Allah wants 3 things to happen to us by Him

? ?, ?to explain to you?
? ?, ?and to guide you into the ways of those before you?, see, Allah wants to guide us to ?Sunan Al Zina Min Kablikum?, CAN YOU READ THE WORD ?SUNAN??
? ?, ?and to turn to you (mercifully)?

No one can refute point 2 above that clearly mentions the word Sunnah in plural form and this is what Allah is guiding us to and specifically the Sunnah of the people before us.

Finally R K in one of his articles wrote

2129,2151, 2231, and 3334, when they talk about the hadiths and sunna of the Prophet Muhammed. They claim the word Al-Hekmah in these verses refer to the Hadiths and Sunna of the prophet Muhammed. That is FALSE.

See how R K got mixed up regarding 2151?, he only refuted the Hikmah as not being the Sunnah of the prophet which I totally agree with him, however HE DODGED THE THIRD ITEM TO BE DELIVERED BY THE PROPHET and was mentioned clearly in 2151 ? ?, i.e. ?and teaches you that which you did not know?, and clearly this is what the prophet was taught himself by Allah according to 4113 ? ? ?, and He has taught you what you did not know?

What I found very ironic was testing a few Islamic sects under 2151 and the result was shocking but this will be another comment when I have time

Salam Public

Al-Quraishi

Assalamu Alaikum brother Ahmed,

It is, as always, a pleasure to read your posts, a question for you...

What do you say to those who say that these components such as Al-Hikmah are contained within the Qur'an?

arnoldyasin

Peace,

Quote
Allah clearly told us that He gave Mohammad Al Kitab wa Al Hikmah and also other things that he never knew before, one of those things that humans didn?t know is how to perform the Salat for example, therefore Mohammad mission was to deliver those things to us in addition to the Quran and Hikmah as we will read in the Quran, let me start with verse 4113

Answer
MISCONCEPTION #11

The Quran tells us in some verses that the messenger was to give the knowledge of ?Al-Kitab? and ?Al-Hikmah?, i.e. the Book and the Wisdom. ?Al-Kitab? or The Book refers to the Qur?an while ?Al-Hikmah? or The Wisdom, is something other than the Qur?an and it is the un-recited, hidden revelation which the messenger received outside of the Qur?an and which is contained in the Books of traditions.

CLARIFICATION

When the Qur?an gives a concept then it does not leave it hanging in the air, but it also defines that concept. It is stated in certain verses of the Qur?an that the messenger of Allah was to give the knowledge of ?Al-Kitab? and ?Hikmah?. Now the Qur?an will itself define what is ?Al-Kitab?, i.e. The Book or written laws, and what consists of ?Hikmah? i.e. wisdom. The following verses inform us

"Our Sustainer! and raise up in them a messenger from among them who shall recite to them your verses and give them knowledge of The Book and the wisdom, and proivide development to their personalities; surely Thou art the Mighty, the Wise." (2129)

"Certainly Allah conferred a favour upon the believers when He raised among them a messenger from among themselves, reciting to them His verses and providing development to their personalities, and giving them the knowledge of the Book and the wisdom, although before that they were surely in manifest error." (3164)
In the above and many similar verses it is mentioned that the messenger is to give knowledge of the Book and the wisdom. The Book or ?Al-Kitab?, refers to the Qur?an, as this is clarified in many other verses itself, e.g.
"Alif Lam Mim. That is The Book, (Al-Kitab) there is no perplexity in it, guidance to those who guard (against evil)." (21-2)

"And recite what has been revealed to you of the Book (Al-Kitab) of your Sustainer.." (1827)

But traditionalists imply that ?Hikmah? or ?Wisdom? in the previously mentioned verses refers to something other than ?Al-Kitab?, hence it is another type of revelation which the messenger received. According to them, this revelation which is identified as ?Hikmah?, is the un recited hidden revelation of God, and is not contained in the Qur?an but it is to be found in the books of traditions authenticated by their sect. However to term the books of traditions as ?Hikmah? is very wrong as the Qur?an itself clarifies what is ?Hikmah?, as we shall see.
The claim that ?Hikmah? is some revelation outside of the Qur?an is refuted by Allah Himself when after stating the divine values of the Qur?an, He says

<Za_lika mimma_ auha_ ilaika rabbuka minal hikmah(ti), wa la_ taj'al ma'alla_hi ila_han a_khara fa tulqa_ fi jahannama malu_mam madhu_ra>

"This is of what your Sustainer has revealed to you of ?Hikmah? (wisdom), and do not associate any other god with Allah lest you should be thrown into hell, blamed, cast away." (1739)

Thus the above verse identifies the Qur?an itself to be ?Hikmah?, and it is confirmed that ?Hikmah? is simply another attribute of the Book of Allah. In Surah Al-Qamar this is again repeated

"There have already come to them Recitals wherein there is (enough) to check (them). Mature wisdom <Hikmat ul baaligha> but (the preaching of) Warners profits them not." (544-5)

Finally those who are under the misconception that ?Hikmah? is <wahy ghayr matlu> i.e. the "un recited revelation" outside of the Qur?an, are clarified in the following verse that ?Hikmah? is also <wahy matlu> i.e. recited revelation and is contained within the folds of Allah?s Book, not outside of it. The wives of Nabi (S.A.W) are reminded

"And bear in mind that which is recited in your houses of the revelations of Allah and wisdom. Lo! Allah is Subtile, Aware." (3334)

The above verse clearly states that ?Along with the Ayat of Allah, ?Hikmah? was also recited in the homes of the wives of Nabi (S.A.W), thus this nullifies the claim that ?Hikmah? consists of ?un recited revelation?.

The Qur?an makes it evident that ?Hikmah? is not some revelation outside of the Qur?an, but is simply another attribute of the Qur?an itself. All the messengers of Allah, received ?Al-Kitab? i.e. the written laws and injunctions for governing human society, but along with the law, Allah also gave the wisdom or rationale behind that law. Since the law of Allah was not meant to be applied forcefully upon people, and it is something that the people have to accept using their faculties of reason and free will, therefore whenever the Qur?an ordaines a law, it also gives the wisdom or reason behind it and asks us to reflect upon the benefits we derive by implementing the divine law in our societies. E.g. After giving the injunctions for modest dress for women, the Qur?an states the wisdom or ?Hikmat? behind that law as

"..This (dress code) will be more proper, that they may be recognised, and thus they will not be given trouble.." (3359)

Similarly the rationale i.e the ?Hikmat? behind the prohibition of intoxicants and games of chance is identified when it is stated

<Yas'alu_naka 'anil khamri wal maisir(i), qul fihima_ ismun kabir>

"They ask thee concerning intoxicants and gambling. Say "In them is great enervation" (2219)

The above verse identifies intoxicants, i.e. liquor, drugs, gambling etc as "Ism" , an Arabic word which means "Enervation" i.e. such a thing which produces weakness and atrophy in something. And it is no secret what gambling, drugs and alcoholic drinks are doing to human society nowdays. Thus Allah asks us to think, ponder and reflect on the benefits of implementing His laws and even gives the wisdom behind the divine injunctions. That is why among the often repeated attributes of the Qur?an, one is <Al-Hakeem>, that is, "The Book of Wisdom", as the following verses identify

"Ya Seen. I swear by the Quran full of wisdom. Most surely you are one of the messengers." (361-3)

"Alif Lam Mim. These are verses of the Book of Wisdom. A guidance and a mercy for the doers of goodness," (311-3)

Thus it is evident from the above that ?Hikmah? is not some un recited revelation outside of the Qur?an, but one of the attributes of Allah?s Book it self and refers to the rationale and wisdom that is given behind the divine laws. Those who insist upon claiming that ?Hikmah? refers to the books of traditions of their sect, should be asked, that in the Qur?an, Allah says that He gave ?Hikmah? to David (2215), Jesus (34, The Followers of Abraham (454), Luqman (3112) etc, So were all these people given the books of traditions of a certain sect if ?Hikmah? is implied to be as such?

Quote
? ?, ?and to guide you into the ways of those before you?, see, Allah wants to guide us to ?Sunan Al Zina Min Kablikum?, CAN YOU READ THE WORD ?SUNAN??

Yes, i can, and i also know sunna just means habit/way of conduct/traditions/cultural ways/habits. Every tribe, city, household has their own sunna or habits. And the Quran is the guide to the ways (sunna) of the ones who had become before Muhammed.

One SUNNA of the ones before us
2183. O you who believe, fasting has been decreed for you as it was decreed for those before you, perhaps you may be righteous.

Two SUNNA
634. Messengers before you were denied, but they were patient for what they were denied, and they were harmed until Our victory came to them; there is no changing the words of God. News of the messengers has come to you.

God wants to make clear for you and guide you to the ways of those before you, and pardon you, and God is Knowledgeable, Wise.

For example, Moses's SUNNA
2843. We had given Moses the Scripture after We had destroyed the earlier generations; as an example for the people and a guidance and mercy, perhaps they will take heed.

Moses said to his people ?Seek help with God, and be patient; for the land is God?s, He will inherit it to whom He pleases of His servants; and the end will be to the righteous.?
He exited the city, afraid and watchful. He said ?My Lord, save me from the wicked people.?
And as he traveled towards Midyan, he said ?Perhaps my Lord will guide me to the right path.

Or Abraham's SUNNA
2916. And Abraham when he said to his people ?Serve God and be aware of Him, that is better for you if you knew.?

There has been a good example set for you by Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people ?We are innocent from you and what you serve besides God. We have rejected you, and it appears that there shall be animosity and hatred between us and you until you believe in God alone.? Except for the saying of Abraham to his father ?I will ask forgiveness for you, but I do not possess any power to protect you from God.? ?Our Lord, we have put our trust in You, and we turn to You, and to You is the final destiny.?
?Our Lord, do not let us become a test for those who rejected, and forgive us. Our Lord, You are the Noble, the Wise.?
Certainly, a good example has been set by them for those who seek God and the Last Day. And whosoever turns away, then God is the Rich, the Praiseworthy.

Does the Quran not have all the sunna's of the prophets which are important for us to know? Muhammed was taught by the Quran of the things they did not knew.

?O Mary, be devoted to your Lord and prostrate and kneel with those who kneel.?
This is from the news of the unseen that We inspire to you. You were not with them when they drew straws as to which one of them will be charged with Mary; you were not with them when they disputed.

These are the things we did not knew. Things we did not know about Josef

That is from the news of the unseen that We inspire to you. You were not amongst them when they arranged their plan and were scheming.

Quote
From the above no one can deny that Allah said to His prophet that He sent the Quran to him to explain to us what we differ and surely the Quran is one of the things that believers will differ in it, ? ?, therefore and clearly the prophet had another mission in addition to the delivery of the Quran, and because the explanation was ASSOCIATED with the Quran only as seen from 1664, then we can use the Quran to qualify what we know about the hadith with ease. In fact one of the hadith that I read confirms that simple fact, that the Quran qualifies the hadith, this is common sense that the words of the Creator should qualify the words of His creatures. It won?t make any sense if taken the other way around.

Yes , it is true that it is Muhammed that explained to them what they differed about, but where does he get his knowledge from?

1664 And We have not revealed to you the Book EXCEPT that you may make clear to them (explain) that about which they differ, and (as) a guidance and a mercy for a people who believe.

He must use the Book to explain to them. It is Muhammed's voice, but it is the Quran from where he get's his knowledge from to explain it to them. It is the same as saying"I explain to you, through the Quran that this appraoch is wrong." Is it me that explained it? YES. But did i use any knowledge besides the Quran? NO. Is the sentence thus formed that it clearly shows that i explain it? YES. Does this mean i didn't use the Quran? NO.
The verse says it so clearly, it is even scary you miss this. Let's use this in a sentence again with different wordings. "I have written this post, only so you can explain to them about why not following hadith as wahi."

Does this in any way imply to something else next to my post? NO. Does it imply that the purpose of this post is to use it to explain to others? YES. It clearly says; This post is given, SO you can explain it to them. The exact same thing implies for verse 1664. The Quran was revealed to Muhammed only so he can explain to them things USING the Quran. Is it still Muhammed to them that explained it? Yes, it is his voice. Does it in any way imply to other explanations outside of the Quran? Certainly not.

THE QUR?AN HAS EVERYTHING THAT IS REQUIRED FOR DIVINE GUIDANCE

"And We have revealed the Book to you which has the clear explanation of everything, and a guidance and mercy and good news for those who submit." (1689)

"In their (all the messengers mentioned in the Quran) narratives there is certainly a lesson for people of understanding. It is not a 'Hadith' which could be forged, but a verification of what is before it and a distinct explanation of all things and a guide and a mercy to a people who believe." (12111)

THE QUR?AN DOES NOT LACK "TAFSEEL" (DETAILED ELUCIDATION)

"Shall I then seek a Ruler other than Allah? When He it is Who has revealed to you the Book (which is) distinctly elucidated <Kitab an Muffasalla>." (6114)

"And certainly We have brought them a Book which We have detailed<Fassalnahu> with knowledge, a guidance and a mercy for a people who believe." (752)

"A Book of which the verses are distinctly elucidated <fussilat ayatahu>, an Arabic Quran for a people who know." (413)

"Indeed We have made the revelations distinct for a people who take reminder <qad fassalnal ayyati li qaumin yazekerun>". " (6126)

"Thus do We make the revelations distinct for a people who reflect. <nuffasil ul ayyati li qaumin ya-tafekerun>" (1024)

"Thus do We make the revelations distinct for a people who use their reason. <nuffasil ul ayyati li qaumin ya-qilun> " (302

"And this Quran is not such as could be forged by those besides Allah, but it is a verification of that which is before it and a distinct elucidation of the book <Tafseel al-Kitab>, there is no doubt in it, from the Sustainer of the worlds." (1037)

"So leave Me and him who rejects this Hadith; We will overtake them by degrees, from whence they perceive not." (6844)

"In which Hadith, then, after it, will they believe?" (7750)

"Do they not consider the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and whatever things Allah has created, and that may be their doom shall have drawn nigh; In which Hadith would they then believe in after this?" (7185)

"Is it not enough for them that We have revealed to you the Book which is recited to them? Most surely there is mercy in this and a reminder for a people who believe." (2951)

And Salaat is completly inside the Quran

http//www.free-minds.org/articles/quranic/salat_edip.htm

Peace

noble

Peace all
A very good logical and convincing argument you put together Arnold.
I prefer to look at the word sunnah referring to the ways of a group, not of an individual.
Sunnata' Allah is the way He has ordained all universal systems to work.
In our little sphere of influence as humans, we have a freedom of choice, and therefore can either choose to abide by sunnata' Allah, or create one of our own...
We cannot say sunnata' "an individual" though, this is why I believe saying sunnata Muhammed is so wrong...
Anyways, in my view, the muslims have become very lazy, and prefer to have scholars tell them what to do, instead of finding out for themselves what Allah wants from them...
Without that ability to think, question and investigate they have become door mats, and this is why we are like donkeys with everyone riding us...
With respect Ahmed, on this one I do not agree with you at all...
Salam
Noble

unknownuser

With respect Ahmed, on this one I do not agree with you at all...
Salam
Noble

Peace bro

I'm not suie if you understood my post or not

first off, no one responded "And He teaches you what you don't know"

that is something else than the Kitab and Hikmah

I donlt care about these two for argumene sake, I need some one to refute the thirs Item

also I didn't say Sunnah is specific to Mohammad alone, the verse I brought STATED that Allah wants to guide us to the Sunnan of the people before us

Salam

unknownuser

Assalamu Alaikum brother Ahmed,

It is, as always, a pleasure to read your posts, a question for you...

What do you say to those who say that these components such as Al-Hikmah are contained within the Qur'an?

Thank you bro

I will respond to your question in PM mate

Cheers

arnoldyasin

first off, no one responded "And He teaches you what you don't know"

that is something else than the Kitab and Hikmah

also I didn't say Sunnah is specific to Mohammad alone, the verse I brought STATED that Allah wants to guide us to the Sunnan of the people before us

Peace AB,

If you read my post i did respond to 'He teaches what you did not know'. It is in the middle of my post. It cannot be refuted. And i did understand you that you meant the Sunna of the earlier people, and i showed this Sunna is also complete in the Quran.

arnoldyasin

Peace all
A very good logical and convincing argument you put together Arnold.
I prefer to look at the word sunnah referring to the ways of a group, not of an individual.
Sunnata' Allah is the way He has ordained all universal systems to work.
In our little sphere of influence as humans, we have a freedom of choice, and therefore can either choose to abide by sunnata' Allah, or create one of our own...
We cannot say sunnata' "an individual" though, this is why I believe saying sunnata Muhammed is so wrong...
Anyways, in my view, the muslims have become very lazy, and prefer to have scholars tell them what to do, instead of finding out for themselves what Allah wants from them...
Without that ability to think, question and investigate they have become door mats, and this is why we are like donkeys with everyone riding us...
With respect Ahmed, on this one I do not agree with you at all...
Salam
Noble

Peace,

I'm totaly with you...

unknownuser

first off, no one responded "And He teaches you what you don't know"

that is something else than the Kitab and Hikmah

also I didn't say Sunnah is specific to Mohammad alone, the verse I brought STATED that Allah wants to guide us to the Sunnan of the people before us

Peace AB,

If you read my post i did respond to 'He teaches what you did not know'. It is in the middle of my post. It cannot be refuted. And i did understand you that you meant the Sunna of the earlier people, and i showed this Sunna is also complete in the Quran.

I'm sorry, I'm not going to read your post, there is many info in there that irrelevent and I have no time to waste

what you can do is simply break up my comment and respond to the points that I mentioned exactly, I'm not interested in reading your lengthy stories, I will only be interested if you respond to my comment after breaking it up as I do with others comments

that is assuming you want a response to my comment directed at me, if your comment is for the public then fine let's leave it to the public

Salam

unknownuser

Hello Public

As we have seen that 4113 & 2151 are telling us that the prophet was given 3 things to deliver to humanity those three things again as follow

1&2) ? ?, ?and instructing you in Scripture and Wisdom?

? ?, ?and teaches you that which you did not know?

Those who say the three items are one are really acting like those Christians and their confusing trinity

1 + 1 + 1 = 1, Hahahahahah

anyway let?s examine two groups under the microscope and see what they followed of these 3 items

I will try the Sunni and the Quran Alone groups for argument sake, I don?t follow and never followed any of these groups btw, therefore my opinion can?t be biased

and instructing you in Scripture
Do the Quran alone followers follow the prophet instructions regarding Al Quran? Of course not

Do the Sunni follow the prophet instructions regarding Al Quran? Of course yes

and instructing you in Wisdom
Do the Quran alone followers follow the prophet instructions regarding Wisdom? Of course not

Do the Sunni follow the prophet instructions regarding Wisdom? Of course yes

and teaches you that which you did not know
Do the Quran alone followers follow the prophet instructions regarding what we didn?t know? Of course not

Do the Sunni follow the prophet instructions regarding what we didn?t know? Of course yes

See, how close the Sunni will be to the religion of Islam than the self claimed Quran aloners?

Well, you can confirm the above with a very simple test, bring 5 quran aloners and 5 sunnis then ask them the following BASIC questions

How many compulsory Salat we should do a day?
When will be the times of those compulsory Salat every day?
What is Shahr Ramdan?
How many days we should fast in Ramadan?
What is Al Masjid Al Haram?
What is Al Kaaba?

That is enough I guess, now the test is not answering the question or not the test is about seeing how the 5 Quran aloners will give different answers to each question and the 5 sunni will give the same answer to the same question
Now what should follow is to analyse those answers using the Quran and I tell you public the Sunni seems far more reasonable and stable that those who follow the Quran alone

Salam Public

Al-Quraishi

Assalamu Alaikum Akhi,

Many thanks for your post. Ok then, a furtherance to this argument

If the case is as you say, that Sunni Muslims are unanimous on a matter where Qur'an Aloners are in a state of dischord.

How accurate do we treat these reports and traditions? What do we make of the reports pertaining to Abu Hurayra e.t.c.

arnoldyasin

Peace,

I thought this discussion is about the truth. So when it's to lenghty you will take no effort to read it? It's irrelevant? This is the easy way out AB. If you were here for the truth, arguments as 'to long' would not have stopped you. It didn't stop Noble or other people. I expected more from you.

You waisted a whole post as i answered almost all of your questions in mine. You reject the most fundemental principles of the Quran and show arabic is not the only need for understanding the Quran.

And your questions

How many compulsory Salat we should do a day?
When will be the times of those compulsory Salat every day?

Explained in this article completly based on Quran ALONE

http//www.free-minds.org/articles/quranic/salat_edip.htm

What is Shahr Ramdan?
How many days we should fast in Ramadan?

Explained perfectly in this article based on Quran and reason

http//www.free-minds.org/articles/science/timing.htm

What is Al Masjid Al Haram?

masjid means place of prostration/submission and haram means restriction, and thus literally means place where people bow to God's Restriction. This refers to a country where people bow to God's Laws, it refers to your house which should be run by God's restriction, your mind which also should be ruled by God's restriction. That it why it should by your Qibla, your point of focus, as we must make everything a masjid Al-haram, a place which is ruled by God's Restriction/Law. Everything must be ruled by the Deen.

What is Al Kaaba?

The word "ka3b" means base. This is the common thread that runs accross the different forms and their meanings. For example, the word "ka3b" can mean heel (the base of the foot). It is also used in rural areas of Arabia as "ka3b al-wadi" (the base of the valley). The word "muka3ab" means cube (a shape with many bases). The word "tak3iba" means the base that grape vines climb on. I still need to research "kawa3ib" but it probably has something to do with having a strong base (not large breasts as traditionalists contend).

In the context of 597, the house is the base for humanity. To understand this, we need to understand the purpose of the house as a place to safely assemble and remember The God. I don't think that "bayt" (house) is the same as "deen" (obligation). Our obligation is to institute/implement the hearing and obeying of the forbidden. So "deen" is "al-masjid al-haram" not "al-bayt". The "bayt" is one of the means to accomplish the places of Deen, masjids al-Haram.

All answers based purely on Quran, natural observation and arabic.

Peace

unknownuser

Assalamu Alaikum Akhi,

Many thanks for your post. Ok then, a furtherance to this argument

If the case is as you say, that Sunni Muslims are unanimous on a matter where Qur'an Aloners are in a state of dischord.

Peace bro

Not really as such, what I meant that the Sunnis are unanimous on the basics, I agree that the sunni show many confusion regarding other complicated matters like marrying 4 and other small issues, BUT NOT THE BASICS like Salat and Sawm for example

Bro Salat ans Sawm are two of the basics of our religion, how come the Quran alone are confused as such regarding these matters?, the sunni are not regarding the basics bro

therefore I only meant the basics of our religion

How accurate do we treat these reports and traditions? What do we make of the reports pertaining to Abu Hurayra e.t.c.

we treated it very bad indeed and our failure is evident 1400 years after and will stay as such if no contervesial action is taken against the hadith and how it should be filtered then compiled in an authorised book that is no way held holly as the Quran, just mere teachings from a great man who was explaining the Quran, the Hikmah and other things that we didn't know

I actually don't take Abu Hurayra seriously due to the doubt about his character that is recoreded in the hadith as well his rude comments to our mother and his mother "Aysha"

Peace

unknownuser

Peace,

I thought this discussion is about the truth. So when it's to lenghty you will take no effort to read it? It's irrelevant? This is the easy way out AB. If you were here for the truth, arguments as 'to long' would not have stopped you. It didn't stop Noble or other people. I expected more from you.

Salam

I'm sorry this is how my new way will be, I will avoid discussing matters with some members and you are included with those unless it is done my way and my way is fair and is not a type of dectatorship

I asked you to break up my comment and respond to the points

that is all what I asked

thank you

unknownuser

Bro Quraishi

Here is an example from the hadith in how the Quran qualifies the hadith, not the other way around

http//mail.aracom.com.au/ahmed/hadith/Hadith3.JPG

Let me try and explain the hadith "Musanad Ahmad"

Zaid Ibn Arqam stated that he was called to meet Obaid Allah Ibn Ziad

Obaid Allah Ibn Ziad told Zaid Ibn Arqam "What all these hadiths you say about the prophet SAWS and we don't find it in the Quran?, you said that the prophet will have Hawddan in Jannah?"

Not sure what Hawdan means but it sound like a nice place in Jannah, it seems that the hadith is giving expectional treatment to the prophet in Jannah Obaid was questioning it because it can't be found in the Quran

Then Zaid responded that he heard it from the prophet

Obaid responded back and said that "no you are a liar and obvioulsy and old man who is hulicinating"

then he stated the hadith that whoever lies about the prophet will have a secured seat in hell

now it is clear from the above hadith that whatever we hear about the prophet must be quailfied by the Quran first, consider like like a Notice of Notion and we see first if the Notion has merit by passing the Quran first

Salam bro

noble

then he stated the hadith that whoever lies about the prophet will have a secured seat in hell

Bro Ahmed,
This statement really scared me, and convinces me even more to keep away from Hadith altogether. Better safe than sorry...

Bro Arnold
I found your Quran Alone argument very reasonable and convincing, but your interpretations in the later posts, as you know, I do not agree with. Let me give you my own views on the subject Masjid Al Haram might be in Jerusalem. It is unlikely Meccah is the place for pilgrimage but in fact the temple dome in Jerusalem. Masjid Al Aqsah is not on Earth...
And Allah knows best...

Bro Ahmed
The Shia also agree on what they have to do, and are in fact more united into it than the sunnis, this does not mean they are correct, just that they are good followers, which is not a guarantee for truth, we cannot say the truth of that group is the best truth because they do not contradict one another...

I already find what is in the Al Quran pretty heavy to follow, and we want to add extra bits to it like Hadith. I think, anyway for me, that going back to basics and unlearning all that poison I learnt from Hadith in the past 20 years, then implement what is in Quran from fresh is a better attitude...

Salam Bros
Noble

unknownuser

Bro Ahmed,
This statement really scared me, and convinces me even more to keep away from Hadith altogether. Better safe than sorry...

Salam bro

Exactly, so what excuse the hadith rejectors will say to Allah if they should follow what the prophet delivered and was not included in the Quran (Quran explanations, Hikmah and other things that we didn?t know)?

Well 4113, 2151 and 1664 will be a very strong argument against them

For me if I shouldn?t follow what the prophet delivered and was not included in the Quran (Quran explanations, Hikmah and other things that we didn?t know), then I will have a strong argument to my Creator using His own words 4113, 2151 and 1664 in my defence

So who may be sorry than safe?

Bro Ahmed
The Shia also agree on what they have to do, and are in fact more united into it than the sunnis, this does not mean they are correct, just that they are good followers, which is not a guarantee for truth, we cannot say the truth of that group is the best truth because they do not contradict one another...

I?m sorry bro, you missed my point, I was talking about the basics like Salat and Sawm

Can you please tell me how many compulsory Salat you do a day and their times and from where you got the info, thanks?

I already find what is in the Al Quran pretty heavy to follow,

Of course but again, it is not covering every aspect of our life and we need to take the prophets as examples

and we want to add extra bits to it like Hadith.

that is your twisting by saying ?WE NEED TO ADD TO IT?, why you classify it as such?, did we add to it anything or the prophet elaborated on it in human words as being directed by Allah? and yet not included in the book to be classified as Hikmah being added to it so I wonder why you say that, is anything you learn in life that is wise and not included in the Quran will be considered an addition to the Quran?

I think, anyway for me, that going back to basics and unlearning all that poison I learnt from Hadith in the past 20 years, then implement what is in Quran from fresh is a better attitude...

Salam Bros
Noble

Glad I don?t have that poison because when the haditn was introduced to me I realized from day one that I have to filter the non sense out of it using my own mind then hold the rest as mere teaching from a great man and this happened years and years ago

Salam

Al_Khidr

The Qur'an says to follow Muhammad's sunnah, I'm curious to understand this movement of GOD ALONE, can someone help me out?

As Salaamu Alaykum Salah ad din

I believe my new link will directly answer your question exposing the false hadiyth

http//www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/hadiythexposed.htm

Salaam