A question?
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Salaam,
Perhaps the story of Abraham may shed some light to the idea that once The God commands something, it will be done and nothing can change that.
1174-76
So when the shock left Abraham, and the good news was delivered to him, he began to argue with Us for the people of Lot. Abraham was compassionate, kind. O Abraham, turn away from this. Your Lord's command has come, and a retribution that will not be turned back is coming for them.Note how Abraham first argued then he was told to quit it and just accept The God's decree. We're talking about a prophet and a messenger here, same thing with Muhammad. If Abraham was told not to argue further, can we imagine that Muhammad could argue any better? I don't think so.
=adley=
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Salaam
Adley, thank you very much.
And perhaps 6115 is another one wher it is clearly said that there is no changing his words
6115 And the word of your Lord has been completed with truth and justice; there is no changing His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower.
But looking the verse before this one (114) it is clear that it is talking about AQ being complete and fully detailed, however, 'there is no changing his words' is not taken out of context (I hope not) if one were to say that NO one can change His decree, right?.
Peace all
FJSalaam,
Perhaps the story of Abraham may shed some light to the idea that once The God commands something, it will be done and nothing can change that.
1174-76
So when the shock left Abraham, and the good news was delivered to him, he began to argue with Us for the people of Lot. Abraham was compassionate, kind. O Abraham, turn away from this. Your Lord's command has come, and a retribution that will not be turned back is coming for them.Note how Abraham first argued then he was told to quit it and just accept The God's decree. We're talking about a prophet and a messenger here, same thing with Muhammad. If Abraham was told not to argue further, can we imagine that Muhammad could argue any better? I don't think so.
=adley=
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Salaam FJ,
Thanks for that verse, I couldn't believe I missed that D
And I agree that it is not taken out of context as you feared it might.Actually, we should read from 638 where the first indication of completeness is mentioned. We then have 649 about those who deny the revelations. The tension builds up as 656-57 introduces pure monotheism, which is a very hard thing to accomplish. And we are given 668-70 as a way to handle those who reject the revelations, that is by turning away because as the previous verses before this one have indicated, a messenger is not a guardian over those who are given the revelations.
The next couple of verses stress again regarding pure monotheism, but by giving an example how we can be like Ibrahim who performed the journey of seeking The God Alone, including his adversaries. And 683-90 mention those who are we should set as examples of characters. This example is given for us so that we can better relate ourselves to what the quran is saying, as I see it.
In 693, the stern warning is said. This followed by explanations by the following verses which again back to the problem of setting up partners as always in 6100. Just a few verses ahead, 6105, we can learn the quran is to be studied for knowledge, indicating that the rejecters are the ones who do not wish to seek knowledge. And 6106 gives the solution, while 6111 gives a strong description about rejection.
The climax starts from 6112 where we are told of "fancy or beautiful words" that may lead us astray and we are told to ignore it. Then we are introduced to 6114 which is basically 638 in a different sentence. And the climax is 6115 where there is no changing in The God's words, which if we look back from 638, we know this verse is actually talking about pure monotheism that we should follow.
Well, that's just my opinion on this ;D
=adley=
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Salaam all
Peace Adley and thank you for sharing your opion.
Smth else poped up in my mind and I just wanted to share it.
In the story of Abraham in AQ, Allah tested him when he saw a dream sacrificing his son. When he was about to do the sacrificing - from what I understand that dream was sort of a command by Allah - he then was called and told not to do it and that it was a test from Allah.
Rashad Khalifas translation
7102 When he grew enough to work with him, he said, "My son, I see in a dream that I am sacrificing you. What do you think?" He said, "O my father, do what you are commanded to do. You will find me, GOD willing, patient."
37103 They both submitted, and he put his forehead down (to sacrifice him).
37104 We called him "O Abraham.
37105 "You have believed the dream." We thus reward the righteous.
37106 That was an exacting test indeed.
37107 We ransomed (Ismail) by substituting an animal sacrifice.However silly and untruthfull the hadith regarding salaat times may sound (50 reduced to 5) one may very well see it as a test by God to Muhammad to see if he was going to obey the command of God just like the test of Abraham with his son, but it is not in Quran and thus may be discarded. But what if it really was a test? We don't knooowwww!!
The way the hadith is put is as if Muhammad did not have any clue weather 50 salaat times ordered by Allah were too much for his people and that he didn't think of this himself and it was Moses who told him (Muhammad didn't know) that 50 salaat per day are too much and that he should return and tell Allah that 50 was too much for his people. One that knows EVERYTHING is made to seem as if He didn't know that 50 is too much!Peace
FJ -
Peace,
A quote from my article on Salat prayer
"The popular story how these times were given to the Prophet(pbuh), the Miraaj, where it is told God first demanded 50 prayers, and that the Prophet finally bargained it down to 5; is already shattered by that the times are in the Quran. That God would never make such a demand, as no one would have had any time to rule the Islamic State, and God doesn?t want to oppose hardship in our Deen.
2278 And strive in the cause of God its truly deserved striving. He is the One who has chosen you, and He has made no hardship for you in the Deen, the System, the creed of your father Abraham; He is the One who named you ?those who have submitted(Muslims)? from before as well as in this. ..
As you can see in the above verse also that it was Abraham(pbuh) who named us Muslims.
And that he and all the Prophets performed Salat, and that it was a known ritual.Abraham
1439-40 'Praise be to God who has granted me in my old age Ishmael and Isaac. My Lord is the hearer of prayers. My Lord, let me honour the Salat, and also from my progeny. Our Lord, accept my prayer.?Children of Israel
243 And honour the Salat, and contribute towards betterment, and kneel with those who kneel.Jesus
1931 'And He made me blessed wherever I was, and He charged me with the Salat and towards betterment as long as I am alive.'
All Prophets
984-5 And those who had previously received the Scripture did not divide except after the proof came to them. And they were not commanded except to serve God and be loyal to His system, monotheists, and establish the Salat and contribute towards betterment, Zakat. Such is the valuable system.So the Salat, prayer and Divine System were given to all the Prophets(pbut), and not just to Muhammed. So God never would have demanded 50 prayers a day as God clearly says throughout the Quran
33 62 This is God's way with those who have passed away before, and you will not find any change in God's way.
42 13 He has decreed for you the same System, Deen, He ordained for Noah, and what We inspired to you, and what We ordained for Abraham, Moses, and Jesus ?You shall uphold this system, and do not divide in it.? Intolerable for those who have set up partners is what you invite them towards. God chooses to Himself whomever He wills; He guides to Himself those who repent. "
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Peace,
I have put as an attachment to this post, see below with the paperclip..
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Peace,
A quote from my article on Salat prayer
"The popular story how these times were given to the Prophet(pbuh), the Miraaj, where it is told God first demanded 50 prayers, and that the Prophet finally bargained it down to 5; is already shattered by that the times are in the Quran. That God would never make such a demand, as no one would have had any time to rule the Islamic State, and God doesn?t want to oppose hardship in our Deen.
2278 And strive in the cause of God its truly deserved striving. He is the One who has chosen you, and He has made no hardship for you in the Deen, the System, the creed of your father Abraham; He is the One who named you ?those who have submitted(Muslims)? from before as well as in this. ..
As you can see in the above verse also that it was Abraham(pbuh) who named us Muslims.
And that he and all the Prophets performed Salat, and that it was a known ritual.Abraham
1439-40 'Praise be to God who has granted me in my old age Ishmael and Isaac. My Lord is the hearer of prayers. My Lord, let me honour the Salat, and also from my progeny. Our Lord, accept my prayer.?Children of Israel
243 And honour the Salat, and contribute towards betterment, and kneel with those who kneel.Jesus
1931 'And He made me blessed wherever I was, and He charged me with the Salat and towards betterment as long as I am alive.'
All Prophets
984-5 And those who had previously received the Scripture did not divide except after the proof came to them. And they were not commanded except to serve God and be loyal to His system, monotheists, and establish the Salat and contribute towards betterment, Zakat. Such is the valuable system.So the Salat, prayer and Divine System were given to all the Prophets(pbut), and not just to Muhammed. So God never would have demanded 50 prayers a day as God clearly says throughout the Quran
33 62 This is God's way with those who have passed away before, and you will not find any change in God's way.
42 13 He has decreed for you the same System, Deen, He ordained for Noah, and what We inspired to you, and what We ordained for Abraham, Moses, and Jesus ?You shall uphold this system, and do not divide in it.? Intolerable for those who have set up partners is what you invite them towards. God chooses to Himself whomever He wills; He guides to Himself those who repent. "
peace be upon you,
I find the statement by Arnold is incorrect
2278 And strive in the cause of God its truly deserved striving. He is the One who has chosen you, and He has made no hardship for you in the Deen, the System, the creed of your father Abraham; He is the One who named you ?those who have submitted(Muslims)? from before as well as in this. ..
As you can see in the above verse also that it was Abraham(pbuh) who named us Muslims.
And that he and all the Prophets performed Salat, and that it was a known ritual.It is infact God who has named us Muslims not Abraham
let me explain the error i found in your statement
first sentence
And strive in the cause of God its truly deserved striving.
notice it is followed by a period
end of sentence...usually periods denote end of the thought stated
next
He is the One who has chosen you, and He has made no hardship for you in the Deen, the System, the creed of your father Abraham;
a semi colon indicates that another complete thought is coming after the semi colon other wise a conjunction would be used and most likely with the connecting conjeunction ,and , but , or
here we see a semi colon which indicates to me another thought not a continuation of the same thought thus
we see two signs this is not in reference to Abraham (after the semi colon)
He is the One who named you ?those who have submitted(Muslims)? from before as well as in this. ..
sign one is the semi colon other wise a comma would suffice since it would refer to the subject previous when using a comma
then second
the word he is capitalizedHe not he
thus indicating God not a human
the argument could be made this is a new thought after a semi colon but one forgets this a capitaization is not nessacary after a semi colon only after a period
thus it can not possibly be about Abraham
also logic says Adam was given the names of all things and to say Abraham created a title for the beleivers makes us differeinte amongst prophets and say Abraham named us and then refuses to accept God taught Adam all the anmes of things
why would that exclude our name as beleivers where is the quranic justification?
Amanda
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Peace,
Good analysis, thank you for the correction.. i will remove it from my article, but this was of courrse not the point of the post..
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Peace to all,
Arnold, I was reading your article on Salaat and a question popped up and thought perhaps you may have an asnwer.
I noticed that you and some one else, I am not sure but I think it was Edip, who said that Salaat is to be performed on time as per 4103... "You shall honour the Salat. Indeed, the Salat for believer is a timed decree", and that means once that time is lost than it is lost for good. Does that also mean that one cannot push the time of Salaat a little later lets say for about an hour or two or just a before the time of the next salaat?
I am asking this question because of the following verse in QuranThe verse above talked about the believer and we know that the believers are those that avoid getting intoxicated...
On the other side, however, also the verse below is addressing the believers
- O you who believe, do not approach the Salat while you are intoxicated, until you know what you are saying. .
So, isn't this verse saying that one should not approach the salat until one is in the state of knowing and that requires many hours to come to that state? From what I read on internet the medical research shows that it takes up to 12 hours to sobber up completly. If it takes that long to come to a state of knowing what to say than if one got drunk just few minutes before the Zuhr prayer than that means one should not approach the four comming salats because of not being in the sate of knowing.
Am I missing smth here?
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Peace FJ,
I made a new discovery that 4103 is related to Gathering-prayers, and not the timing of the ordinary prayers. I believe there is no harm at all in pushing the time limit. Prayer is only an extra, it is not the main part in the Deen.
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peace
what do you mean that prayer is an extra?
can you elaborate? and provide quranic references?
Amanda
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Peace,
Salat comes from '2 horses in a race where the second horse is gaining on the first one, this moment was called sala.' So Salat means attachment, contact, bond but its main meaning is following closely to gain the best position. Almost all salats in the Quran mean 'following the Divine commands closely to gain the best position' and Iqamasalat means 'establish the System that comes from following the Divine commands closely'. Only in some verses Salat means prayer, like in 4102 for example. In 911 it means allegiance. The idea that Salat can only mean one thing is totaly wrong and it is totaly wrong to believe Salat mainly means prayer. The Quran is not a book of religion and worship. The Quran is the constitution for humanity, not a prayerbook. So it must be approached as a constitution and not as a religious book. Prayer only has a psychological purpose, and has only a small part inside the message of the Quran. To abtain Jannah, the higher level, we must follow the Divine commands as laid out in the Quran closely.
We are in control of our soul now, as we now have moved on from a bodily evolution to a mental evolution. But we must decide on our own if we want this or not. To attain the higher level we must follow certain Laws, just like evolution had to follow laws to reach this level of sophistication. So good and bad don't excist, only things that will make our soul evolves and the things that will make our soul stagnate. Prayer only is there to create psychological balance and peace. God doesn't care if you acknowledge Him or not. To believe in One God is acknowledging the Truth so you will have the best basis from where you make your decisions and observations of life and reality. All things we do will push our soul to evolution or stagnation. This is the main message of the Quran, and all the Laws that are contained in the Quran are meant to show us the way how to evolve our soul. That is why the main meaning of Salat is 'following the Divine commands closely to gain the best position', and prayer cannot be the main meaning.