Is the Salat physical?
-
Salam again Bro Ahmed
Well maybe we will be graced by finding a little bit about it...
I am currently reading a scientific book on the purpose of dreams and sleep (using the latest findings in psychiatry, neurology and biochemistry), and it might shed some interesting insights on the Ruh...
The book is pretty hard to read, but if you are interested and when I finish studying it, I can give you a summary of what it found out... -
Peace all,
Welcome back brother Ahmed.
Peace
idolfree1, why is it that I feel I need to have a PhD in Philosophy and English Literature to understand what you are writing, or is it complete gibberish, or am I a complete ignorantus?... -\... Noble, I guess you already have a PhD in Philosophy and English Literature or at least you are on the way to getting it
May I ask what made you start reading that book? I hope it wasn't Idolfree's gibberish interpretations peace
Salam again Bro Ahmed
Well maybe we will be graced by finding a little bit about it...
I am currently reading a scientific book on the purpose of dreams and sleep (using the latest findings in psychiatry, neurology and biochemistry), and it might shed some interesting insights on the Ruh...
The book is pretty hard to read, but if you are interested and when I finish studying it, I can give you a summary of what it found out...All the best
FJ -
Peace
The problem I see with a ritualistic salat (with the bowing and prostrating to the ground) is that it can't do anything.
We cannot get closer to God by performing a few prostrations. I've seen more than enough people who fall to the ground 5 times a day to praise "Allah" but don't know the difference between right and wrong. So does it really do anything? can we verify that it actually brings us closer to God?
What Kyle (idolfree1) has said makes sense because the purpose of salat is to get closer to/imitate God. And we can only accomplish that by improving our behavior. Programming our subconscious can change the way we do things.What does programming the subconscious mean, this is what I think
When we walk, we aren't moving all our muscles voluntarily. We aren't thinking about how to balance ourselves, or where to place our arms and legs exactly to move. Our subconscious does that for us. A child learns to walk, and through practice, the "ritual" of walking becomes ingrained in our minds. It becomes so natural that we don't think about it anymore. It's the same when we learn anything. That's why practice is so important. Because you have to go from having to think about doing something (conscious) to not having it come naturally to you (subconscious).
When we watch a movie, or look at a painting, or listen to a piece of music, we may not feel the same as our friends do about it. They may think it's great, but we may think it's a piece of horse shit. Why the difference? it's because of the way we have been Programed and conditioned over the years. We are all programed differently, from the moment we are born. And when we are programed to feel something, we don't have to think about it anymore. When we listen to a piece of music, we don't think about how it makes us feel. It just does it. It's the same thing as learning to walk. Walking just comes to us.
So, you want to learn to talk like Dr. Phil? (I can't think of any reason anyone would want to do that, though) you practice.
But you must be familiar with hallucinations, and hypnotism? Well, the thing is that our brain can't tell the difference between what's real and what not. As long as the brain is receiving signals, it thinks what's happening to us is real. That's why dreams feel real too (until we wake up and realize how stupid they are). This proves that we don't have to practice in real life to achieve results. You just trick your brain into thinking it's real. You basically hypnotize yourself. Like when you are watching a good movie or reading a good book.(you jump up when something sudden, unexpected happens)
Why practice? well, there are things about us that need changing. Maybe we are programed in a way that's not so great. Maybe we are prejudiced against some race. Maybe we get too angry about something. Maybe we don't like Dr. Phil. Whatever it is, we can change it.
We can transform ourselves from what we are now to someone much better. We can find the God who is closer to us than our jugular vein.
Salat is meditation. We use our imaginations to practice. Practice being kind, forgiving, peaceful. Once we have done that, you can say that we have achieved the purpose of salat. We have purified our subconscious. Since there is no bad programming left in us, we can't possibly do anything bad. Since we are now free from evil, we have become servers of God. -
The problem I see with a ritualistic salat (with the bowing and prostrating to the ground) is that it can't do anything.
What would shaking hands or hugging a beloved one do?
I agree that mechanical prostrating or salaat without feeiling (kushou3) will make prostration looks like an empty, meaningless movement; that's why prostration is linked to the pious, righteous believer. When you reach this point during your salaat, you will be overwhelmed and feel like like prostrating.
-
What would shaking hands or hugging a beloved one do?
I agree that mechanical prostrating or salaat without feeiling (kushou3) will make prostration looks like an empty, meaningless movement; that's why prostration is linked to the pious, righteous believer. When you reach this point during your salaat, you will be overwhelmed and feel like like prostrating.
peace Samia,
unlike our friends and family, GOD is not a physical object or being. We cannot hug or prostrate to God.
But please explain your point of view. What is a pious person supposed to feel? -
unlike our friends and family, GOD is not a physical object or being. We cannot hug or prostrate to God.
Do you hug them because they are physical objects? I am talking about feelings that make you do this.
What is a pious person supposed to feel
How can I explain a feeling in words? It's like asking me to explain how a nice perfume smells.
For both questions You will know it when you feel/smell it -
peace
We hug them because that is a sign of showing affection. Bowing down and prostrating is a way of showing respect.
-
these actions are invented by humans and different people and cultures have different ways of showing emotion
-
by prostrating, who are we showing repect/affection/love to?
Can only true believers feel this? if so, what about the rest? what are we supposed to do to feel that?
-
-
Peace Bro (or Dude?) FJ
I am an educator, so I try to find any resource to help me in my profession.
Unfortunately I also suffer from a mental illness (manic-depression) so my interest in psychiatry and neurology.
Smile dude (bro?), its good for your health sun yay rotfl -
phoenix1 dude, you are twisting very powerful psychological insights and tools to make salat a mockery...
Also dreams achieve a very useful and vital purpose, there have been experiments done on animals which resulted in the death of the animal if deprived of dreaming long enough (I am not saying deprived of sleeping), also similar experiments, but not taken to the extreme (for ethical reasons) , on humans resulted in those humans to become extremely sick...
I will not tell you what dreams achieve yet, I will be compiling sometime in the future a summary on brain research I am currently reading, and believe me, expect to be shocked, as Science in this case does meet Al Quran...
Have a nice day Dude...
Nooble -
Hi Phoenix1,
You are not giving it its proper dues, making it a mental exercise. It is communion, Body and Soul.
Like when you sleep, do you sleep upside down with your body dangling from the ceiling rotfl
Or would you say you can sleep in a metaphorical way, so that you just think about it...
How about you actually need the physical aspect of salat to nourish your Spirit? Thought about that?
And by the way do you exercise, it is good for you, or you can just do it in your mind, by thinking about it... rotfl bravo yay -
peace Noble,
you aren't getting the point.
Where in the quran does it say that salat requires bowing and prostrating physically, again?
I never said I take salat metaphorically.
I think that sitting down, relaxing, and thinking are very much physical actions.But please explain what you mean by "nourish your spirit?" what is that?
and why does salat require it's "proper dues?"
and what do you mean by "communion, body and soul?"
please explain so I can better understand your position.And yes, exercise is great. I like playing football. I'm not the fittest person alive though.
-
The problem I see with a ritualistic salat (with the bowing and prostrating to the ground) is that it can't do anything.
What would shaking hands or hugging a beloved one do?
I agree that mechanical prostrating or salaat without feeiling (kushou3) will make prostration looks like an empty, meaningless movement; that's why prostration is linked to the pious, righteous believer. When you reach this point during your salaat, you will be overwhelmed and feel like like prostrating.
Thank you Samia
-
Peace Ahmed, Samia
Yes indeed I second that, but I do not think metaphorists (whatever that means because I do no yet figure out what the word really means to them) will ever be close to Allah to feel what you are talking about (Khushu'u), and unless you feel it, you will not be compelled to totallly submit, which includes prostrate to the Most High... -
Peace Bro (or Dude?) FJ
I am an educator, so I try to find any resource to help me in my profession.
Unfortunately I also suffer from a mental illness (manic-depression) so my interest in psychiatry and neurology.Read bro read and I hope God helps you with your suffering.
Smile dude (bro?), its good for your health sun yay rotfl
Well, I am the kind of a person that burst into laughing very easely, so I smiled and laughed very much throughout my life. Yesterday I had a my imune system tested and it turned out weak
Everyone of you here is making sense but I cannot tell which one of you is right ???
... I incline a little bit towards physical explanation and, knowing the scientifically proven benefits of meditaion, I also like the non-physical.... whatever ??? ??? ???Peace
FJ -
Peace FJ
Yes laughter is good for your immune system. I also suggest (if you can afford it) Selenium supplements and Vitamin C.
I never said do not Meditate. But we cannot just live in our head. Worship is both mental and physical.
Now who are we worshiping? Allah.
Who revealed the Al-Quran? Allah.
We claim that we follow the Al-Quran alone? Yes.
So let us do it, how? Follow the instructions in the Quran.
Salat is well explained in Quran? Yes.
Do what we are told, perform Salat? Yes.
Is Salat physical? According to Al Quran, Yes...
Do It!
Salam -
... I incline a little bit towards physical explanation and, knowing the scientifically proven benefits of meditaion, I also like the non-physical.... whatever ??? ??? ???
Peace
FJHello mate
But the meditaion is already ordered to us many times in the Quran, why you are mixing it with Salat?
Cheers
-
Salaam Phoenix1
Can only true believers feel this? if so, what about the rest? what are we supposed to do to feel that?
For your first question I would say yes. It is an active action, just like the reading/reciting during salaat, it has to be active and you should understand what you are saying. God forbids us from salat if we are in a state in which we cannot comprehend what we are saying. i understand from this that He does not want mechanical uttarance (or movements).
What I said above would cover your second question. No one can tell you what to do in order to "feel" in a specific way.
Salaam FJ
knowing the scientifically proven benefits of meditaion, I also like the non-physical
How is meditation "not physical"? I do not find it very different. Strangely enough, you have to wash before it and even wash your mouth and nostrils to prepare for that (from a book I read to learn how to meditate). You have to stay still, control your thoughts and concentrate on what you are doing. Stay still is physical, isn't it?
I am not a refernce in meditation, but I used it for sometime and I would sleep half an hour through it!! Was I doing it the wrong way? At the time it was very good for me, as I was very stressed, and it offered me extra hour or two of calm sleep.
-
I thought they mean by meditation, the rememberance of Allah
well, if not then the Quran didn't order us to meditate