Is the Salat physical?
-
Phoenix1
You answered your question yourself, they prostrate by obeying and being subject to God's Law.
We are subject to God's Law to a very large extent, however there is a tiny bit which is our free will, and Allah as a test, and as a result that we accepted to carry His Trust, He wants us to prostrate willingly too, ie use our freedom of choice to do it at appointed times every day as He explained it to us in the Quran...
This is all I am willing to argue with you, we agree to disagree, this exchange is no longer pleasing to me...
Bye bye
PS If you want to be a lazy b*m that is your choice, I did not put a gun at your head and asked you to prostrate, oki... -
peace Noble,
thankyou for admitting that the quran uses prostration as a metaphor.
Most of us aren't obeying God's laws. We aren't living in harmony with the rest of nature, that's why we must change ourselves (through salat) so that we are prostrating to God. -
phoenix1, dude please...
we use metaphors all the time, in fact language is metaphor as you use words to label and explain away real things (for instance you do not eat the word apple, but the word apple is a convenient way to label a class of fruits, so that when I use it you know what I am referring to)...
i wanted you to spell out what you meant by metaphor...
Allah has the ability to make a metaphor physical...
finally prostrating is not a metaphor, in the sense that it refers to something else, it is just that the meaning of the word depends on the context...
If Allah wants to make a point he can physicalise a "metaphor", so as to teach a lesson or test people...
There is a huge gap in understanding between me and Ahmed and your metaphorist clan...
Have a nice life...
Noble out -
peace noble,
finally prostrating is not a metaphor, in the sense that it refers to something else, it is just that the meaning of the word depends on the context...
If Allah wants to make a point he can physicalise a "metaphor", so as to teach a lesson or test people..if prostrating is not a metaphor, then what do the sun and moon do exactly?
You can call it "refers to something else" but no matter how you put it, it is still a metaphor.
And what does "physicalizing" a metaphor mean?
btw, I'm having a great life. And you should start questioning yourself, just as i do everyday, to make sure you aren't on the wrong end of that "understanding gap." -
Peace guys
I am sure you are well meaning dudes, with your metaphors and all that stuff...
However in my humble insightful opinion, I would advise you to stop wasting your time, just go and enjoy yourself, fornicate, drink liquor, fool around, eat pork, etc...
If the foundation in your faith are not sound, any good you do will not be accepted, so you really are just wasting your time...
I am also confident that whatever I say to you that does not go along the way you view things will be dismissed...
This is why I am making this "balagh" this one very last time...
Enjoy this very short life while it lasts, it is extremely short indeed... -
peace noble,
I am sure you are well meaning dudes, with your metaphors and all that stuff...
What I fail to understand is this if the verses I quoted didn't mean what I think they mean, then what do they mean? you have been unable to answer that. You even admitted that prostrating means obeying. Why don't you give us a clear answer?
However in my humble insightful opinion, I would advise you to stop wasting your time, just go and enjoy yourself, fornicate, drink liquor, fool around, eat pork, etc...
That isn't humble, insightful, or good advice. Why should I drink liquor and fool around (whatever that means) and eat pork?
If the foundation in your faith are not sound, any good you do will not be accepted, so you really are just wasting your time...
Thank you for your judgement, All Mighty.
I am also confident that whatever I say to you that does not go along the way you view things will be dismissed...
Who says God doesn't know what's in our hearts?
Enjoy this very short life while it lasts, it is extremely short indeed...
Life may be short. But it's long enough for most of us to do everything we want.
Please forgive the sarcasm. peace -
phoenix1,
inasmuch that i really love you, and that my heart bleeds for you to see you so misled, and that i feel extremely sorry for you...
there is nothing for me to add, i am not your keeper, and i will only be answerable for my own deeds..
you ask me to answer your questions,
there is nothing to answer,
this is about faith dude,
i accept what my Creator is telling me,
i do not keep on looking for hidden messages and innuendos,
He tells me that there are none, that the Quran is clear, and simple to understand,
and He warns me against pursuing lines of inquiries that would lead to ambiguity.
I do not question His forbidding me to eat the flesh of pig, or His asking me to avoid Alcohol, why should I question Him, and find riddles in His words about other matters?
My heart bleeds for you and your acolytes of the metaphors...
Peace -
Peace be upon you,
there is nothing to answer,
this is about faith dude,Peace to you. Hopefully one day you will open up and not be afraid to provide evidence for your faith. This is, by the way, a discussion board. So if you dont feel a need to discuss your point of view, why are you here?
-
Peace be upon you,
Oki, then give me a good (metaphorical) reason why you do not eat the flesh of pig (physically).
The pig is a symbol of greediness and stubborness. Adam and his wife were told they could have EVERYTHING except one tree, what is it but GREED and STUBBORNESS that would make them disobey?
My question to you is why would we be told not to eat pigs meat, but no statement of Rat's meat, or Fried Bat, etc?
And I am here because I learnt a couple of things from some forum members such as Ahmed, Samia and Layth...
Good, but the only way you could have learned something is by them providing PROOF of thier understandings, not sitting back relying on "faith".
-
Peace be upon you
It has to do with their insightful understanding of the Al Quran...
The issue I have about your interpretations is that you use the metaphor word loosely. In my understanding a metaphor is used in a discourse to explain a complicated thing by something simpler.
You use metaphors to mean lies... Such as prophets being metaphors, or Hell being a metaphor... metaphors to what? -
peace Noble,
so when I explain something abstract using physical examples, it is a metaphor. But when I say the quran does that too, it becomes a lie. Why that double standard? Why can't the Quran be explaining it's message through metaphors?"Faith is believing what you know ain?t so." - Mark Twain
-
Where in the Quran does it talk about abstract. Abstract is a word humans use becwuse of our limited understanding.
The Quran is very practical and talks about our place in the universe and our relationship to our Creator.
Everything it describes is real, and it sometimes uses examples, parables and metaphors to explain away what we have no experience of yet...
We will experience some of these realities when the time comes.
I for one would hope I will not experience the reality of Hell, and instead experience the reality of Paradise. -
Abstract
- thought of apart from concrete realities, specific objects, or actual instances an abstract idea.
- expressing a quality or characteristic apart from any specific object or instance, as justice, poverty, and speed.
- theoretical; not applied or practical abstract science.
- difficult to understand; abstruse abstract speculations.
Things can be real but not physical. Real does not mean physical. Quran talks about many abstract things such as beliefs, truth, justice, desires, emotions, etc. These are all real things. Just because something isn't an object or a place, doesn't mean it's not real. It's a pretty simple fact.
Another fact is that if we take the quran literally, we end up with idiotic nonsense which can only be supported by "faith."
Child "why does the quran say this?" confused
Father -["don't ask questions! why is your faith so weak? can't you accept without questioning what God says?!? are you that faithless? where is your faith? don't think, don't ask why, just believe!" >(
Child hypno
-
peace
the problem with the greeks was that they were good at thinking about things. They didn't actually verify their thoughts through experiments. Aristotle thought about objects falling, and he concluded that heavier objects fall faster than lighter objects. Galileo proved that wrong very easily, because he thought he'd test Aristotle's ideas instead of just believing them.
Greeks weren't all bad, though. -
Peace
Well if it were not for the Muslims, we would not have known much about the Greeks' Philosophy, even the Westerners (shall I say we, as I am half), admit that.
I do accept that experiments have also their limitations, however it seems to me that you take the Scientific Method as being infallible, it ain't.
The procedures we use are determined in fact by what we agree to be acceptable, combined with the use of models that are mostly very localised. To generalise based on these is very fallacious. The map is not the territory...
There is no doubt for me that whatever Allah wants us to discover, we will in due time, He said it very clearly in Surat AlRahman.
We should be careful not to idolise the current status quo, as we might be a few discoveries away of a completely different cosmogony, it just takes a paradigm shift to achieve that.
So I keep my options and opinions open...
However I trust my Creator, and this is an act of Faith in Him, that all will be revealed when appropriate, and in any case after I shall come to die.
God bless
Noble -
Peace,
Although i believe the MAIN meaning of Salat is following closely as in following the Divine Laws, where iqamasalat means establish that (System=Deen) which comes through following of the Divine Laws, i also believe Salat can be approached as prayer, but this is not the main meaning and is certainly not the most important thing in the Quran. Human rights is the main message of the Quran. But i have written a small article on prayer inside the Quran out of self-interrest and to use it as an example for Hadith-upholders.
http//19.org/index.php?arnold
See top article....
-
Philosophy aside. Let's presume that salaat is physical. Apart from prostration and ablution, what are the other physical aspects, and how to perform a complete salaat?
peace
no one ever said salat is not physical. I believe salat is physical, it just doesn't require us to recite anything or prostrate or bow down.