?How does one talk with , God.
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I agree with you. Some thoughts I think people are given chances and the lines of communication open if they choose it, the caveat being that once they receive it they would stop persisting in going against Him and try to change sincerely (once the truth comes to us we must not reject it etc). I suppose the more they refuse, the harder such communication gets. This might be another way of saying, it's not God that took Himself away, they did it themselves by the choices they made. Sadly, some might be so drastically mired in their own fallacious reasoning that they would refuse/reject and go to their graves so to say, whilst remaining astray/lost. Or could it be that some types would not really care and that would be the reason they would disregard it? I suppose all these shades of grey and trillions of variables would be best judged by Him as only He knows exactly what situations and circumstances they go through whilst rejecting/disregarding/accepting said communication.
As for those that don't acknowledge it being from God, yet are still guided as they are not going against Him, I suppose these might be the types who can see the truth in some way but not really the entire picture yet or something. Just like any of us probably might see the truth in some ways but not completely.
I agree;
And I think the advancing world tends to associate these things with the persons mind - the conscious mind and the sub-conscious various the quran adheres to you and Allah.
I don't know if you have ever checked but majority of things which are referred to be done by Allah in the quran, according to science are supposed to be done by the sub-conscious.
So what ever it could be, scientific findings aren't far off but just that the source is made different-I think.
Big Question Is it possible to say even the guidance you receive in your mind say the direction of your school the road map is from Allah also? What do you think?
i.e. if you think of your local school say instantly you get the direction as well as the map of where it is in your head.
? Salaam.
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Peace be upon you Simple,
I use Oracles
What is that?
It is divination. Using objects like cards, coins, etc where you ask a question and throw the coinsor pick cards to get the answer. It is similar to Tarot but a higher form. I am not sure that Tarot is a working system or not. Oracles are very popular in Eastern spirituality, African (Yoruba, Khametic, Akan, Santeria, etc) as well as China (I ching). The Bible speaks of the oracle called "urim and thummim"many times in the Old testament. In the New testament, When Jesus had to select another replacement for his 12 disciples he used this oracle to select the correct person.
In this reading(quran), Zakariah used oracles to see who would care for Marium.
5 years ago I would have laughed at such a notion, but today I firmly trust use and trust in them. I started a thread about it a while ago, but I am not experienced enough nor have the time to try to prove the through the forum. I can only say that my experience with them has been phenomenal!
Lastly, it has nothing to do with fortune telling, it is a means of figuring out in advance what CHANGES you will need to work in in your spirit to be prepared for upcoming events in your life. One cannot escape adversity, all one can do is prepare for it so that you can meet it with PEACE, rather then emotion.
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Salaams idol,
Interesting- never come accross this before though.
In this reading(quran), Zakariah used oracles to see who would care for Marium.
Where?
Thanks.
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Peace be upon you Simple
(344) This is from the news of the unseen that We inspire to you. You were not with them when they cast oracles as to which one of them will be charged with Mary; you were not with them when they disputed.
Some translators have "cast lots" or "drew straws", all of which are oracular devices, but not as in depth as others.
The basis of this is the RUH ul QUDUS , or DIVINE ENERGY that is all over the world, that MOVES ALL THINGS. So when teh God tells us in this reading that IT answers the call of all callers, it is true, just most people dont know how to interpret the oracles, nor know about them.
I do not intend to spend time trying to prove them, i tried before and it is just too difficult to do over the phone especially since I am not qualified enough yet.
Lastly, Oracles are only used until one can develop the spirit enough to INTUIT the answers from The God within, that is the concept of Prophethood which we all have but most wont reach.
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Salaams idol,
344
This is part of the tidings of the things unseen, which We reveal unto thee (O Messenger!) by inspiration Thou wast not with them when they cast lots with arrows, as to which of them should be charged with the care of Mary Nor wast thou with them when they disputed (the point).53
........(forbidden) also is the division by raffling with arrows.......590
.........and (divination by) arrows- an abomination..........
Sorry i don't know how you concluded raffling or any such thing is encouraged ,Br.
As you see 344 isn't an order but merely saying what some people where doing and not even who is doing it.
So oracles????????
Thanks though.
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Peace be upon you,
I dont believe the same words are being used in 344, furthermore, why would we be given an empty statement in the reading(quan)? If there was a problem with what Zachariah did then it would have been addressed right there. Notonly is Zachariah not reprimanded, he even goes on to follow the advice of the Oracle and take care of Mariam. Had he done something that was wrong, why would he still be allowed to care for the Mother of Isa after using a "wicked" device?
Again, I can only advise you to come out of the "mainstream" religion box and see what others have to offer, which by the way is written in "mainstrem" texts.
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Interesting turn of events, let me post the verses so we can examine them
344 Thalika min anba-i alghaybi nooheehi ilayka wama kunta ladayhim ith yulqoona aqlamahum ayyuhum yakfulu maryama wama kunta ladayhim ith yakhtasimoona
53 Hurrimat AAalaykumu almaytatu waalddamu walahmu alkhinzeeri wama ohilla lighayri Allahi bihi waalmunkhaniqatu waalmawqoothatu waalmutaraddiyatu waalnnateehatu wama akala alssabuAAu illa ma thakkaytum wama thubiha AAala alnnusubi waan tastaqsimoo bial-azlami thalikum fisqun alyawma ya-isa allatheena kafaroo min deenikum fala takhshawhum waikhshawni alyawma akmaltu lakum deenakum waatmamtu AAalaykum niAAmatee waradeetu lakumu al-islama deenan famani idturra fee makhmasatin ghayra mutajanifin li-ithmin fa-inna Allaha ghafoorun raheemun
590 Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo innama alkhamru waalmaysiru waal-ansabu waal-azlamu rijsun min AAamali alshshaytani faijtaniboohu laAAallakum tuflihoona
Would be interested in knowing what the differences are since they are translated around the same. I tried checking in burhan, couldn't find a match for it, maybe someone can help? Pens and throwing is what I came up with.
Secondly
furthermore, why would we be given an empty statement in the reading(quan)? If there was a problem with what Zachariah did then it would have been addressed right there. Notonly is Zachariah not reprimanded, he even goes on to follow the advice of the Oracle and take care of Mariam. Had he done something that was wrong, why would he still be allowed to care for the Mother of Isa after using a "wicked" device?
I always thought that the people who did this 'raffle' thing were not inclusive of Zakirya. There is a possibility that they wrote down people's names on them, whether part of the group who actually participated in this or not after deciding, as the last phrase in 344 as 'you were not with them when they disputed.' doesn't seem like something zakirya would have done or taken part in, does it? If they were pulling straws (with no names and the shortest straw gets it) then they would have to all be involved and if it was a draw or something then no, they didn't need to involve all the people who were included in the names. I don't know, unless the difference is determined, we can't really reach a conclusion.
Big Question Is it possible to say even the guidance you receive in your mind say the direction of your school the road map is from Allah also? What do you think?
i.e. if you think of your local school say instantly you get the direction as well as the map of where it is in your head.
Hmm, that's a bit difficult to determine as that would be tapping into two things here, inspiration and memory. Intuition I think is related with memory and works in the background with it, maybe that's a mixture of inspiration and memory, don't know. I believe there are differences between them, however slight but maybe they have a running theme in common in some scenario's. Kinda hard to determine these things when we don't rightly know how everything works to the finest detail.
Peace
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Salaams idol,savage,
for what its worth
According to my understanding of the grammerQalama = To cut or pierce.Q.D
Aqalama = He cut or pierced.
Aqlama = They cut or pierced.Yalqauna = they meet. Q.D
So they meet to decide which of them takes care of Mary??
But this could be wrong aswell.
GOD BLESS.
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Peace all.
Interesting stuff.
Peace be upon you,
Me personally, I use Oracles to "talk" with the God just like Zachariah did.
The verse doesn't say that they threw their pens to "talk" or communicate with God.
It is divination. Using objects like cards, coins, etc where you ask a question and throw the coinsor pick cards to get the answer.
The only objects mentioned in the verse are "their pens".
So the use of other objects would be, what do we call it... 'unquranic'.
What do you think?
Thanks and peace.
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Salaams savage,
Quote from simple
Big Question Is it possible to say even the guidance you receive in your mind say the direction of your school the road map is from Allah also? What do you think?i.e. if you think of your local school say instantly you get the direction as well as the map of where it is in your head.
Hmm, that's a bit difficult to determine as that would be tapping into two things here, inspiration and memory. Intuition I think is related with memory and works in the background with it, maybe that's a mixture of inspiration and memory, don't know. I believe there are differences between them, however slight but maybe they have a running theme in common in some scenarios. Kinda hard to determine these things when we don't rightly know how everything works to the finest detail.
Yes, only unfortunate thing is the quran doesn?t talk about the workings of the sub-conscious and we do according to our understanding of the present day.
And according to this ?
It Calculates, Plots and Plans and never makes a mistake.
Which is what Allah does.
But I think I can?t say where Allah is but we do know where the subconscious is, and may be Allah works via this biological device to influence us in different ways if one deserves enough.
Salaams.
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Peace simple,
It Calculates, Plots and Plans and never makes a mistake.
A clarification, are you referring to the subconscious? How do you determine it never makes a mistake?
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for what its worth
According to my understanding of the grammerQalama = To cut or pierce.Q.D
Aqalama = He cut or pierced.
Aqlama = They cut or pierced.Yalqauna = they meet. Q.D
So they meet to decide which of them takes care of Mary??
But this could be wrong aswell.
Yes, I think it is .
The verse says "yulqoona/they threw aqlaama-hum/their pens" .
"aqlaama" here is the plural of "qalam"/pen.
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Peace simple,
A clarification, are you referring to the subconscious? How do you determine it never makes a mistake?
I am not saying that , but that is what science or research is saying.
I thought every body knows this.
God Bless.
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Yes, I think it is .
The verse says "yulqoona/they threw aqlaama-hum/their pens" .
"aqlaama" here is the plural of "qalam"/pen.
Sorry My Brother but prophets don't rely on the throw of a dice - so it can't be what you have suggested.Prophets relied on Allah's guidance.
Simerlarly just because this word means a pen aswell it doesn't mean that is the only thing it means in the ayah it is a simple mistranslation of a sort.But thanks for your hand.
God Bless.
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I am not saying that , but that is what science or research is saying.
I thought every body knows this.
God Bless.
I see. Can you point me to any articles done that determine the subconscious never makes a mistake? I would like to read up on it. I searched and came up with this amongst others so apparently it's not too well known. Maybe you mean the sunconscious remembers everything which is different from making mistakes? Peace.
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Sorry My Brother but prophets don't rely on the throw of a dice
I didn't say that they do.
- so it can't be what you have suggested.
And what did I suggest?
Prophets relied on Allah's guidance.
Sure.
Simerlarly just because this word means a pen aswell it doesn't mean that is the only thing it means in the ayah
What else does it mean in the Quran? The only other verse that mentions "aqlaam" is 3127.
it is a simple mistranslation of a sort.
How?
But thanks for your hand.
No problem .
God Bless.
Peace.
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peace all handshake
and (divination by) arrows- an abomination.....nowadays its the socalled lottery
oracle but more like an object that will answer your question.
oracle
1 a a person (as a priestess of ancient Greece) through whom a deity is believed to speak b a shrine in which a deity reveals hidden knowledge or the divine purpose through such a person c an answer or decision given by an oracle
2 a a person giving wise or authoritative decisions or opinions b an authoritative or wise expression or answerthe answer comes!believe it!it works and it doesnt have to be an object u can use time,numbers,views,words u hear,everything its connected.keep alert and youll see how allah its everywhere.seek refuge from the evident enemy that makes u forget allah.
peace handshake -
Salam,
I just wanted to add a few things and also pose a question about the following two verses2186Transliteration Wa-itha saalaka AAibadee AAannee fa-innee qareebun ojeebu daAAwata alddaAAi itha daAAani falyastajeeboo lee walyu/minoo bee laAAallahum yarshudoona
4060Transliteration Waqala rabbukumu odAAoonee astajib lakum inna allatheena yastakbiroona AAan AAibadatee sayadkhuloona jahannama dakhireena
Both of these verses use the root word "du'a" (in bold) which (according to Hans Wehr and Lane) translates as
( و- to call (someone), to summon (someone), call or send for someone, to assign someone to something (government), to appeal to sonmeone for something
- invite, urge someone, to invite, ask to come
- to challenge, move, induce, prompt (someone to do something)
- to call someone by a name , to be called, be named
- to invoke, wish someone well, bless, invoke a blessing on someone, implore for something for someone
- to curse (to invoke God against someone), call down evil, invoke evil
- to propagate, propagandize, make propeganda, make publicity
- to challenge, pick a qurrel, 9. to proceed judiciously against, prosecute, testify, give evidence in court, bring an accuasation (in court)
- to evoke one another (thoughts reminiscences, sentiments)
- to be associated with each other (thoughts, ideas)
- to be dilapidated, be tumble-down, threaten to fall (walls)
- to sink, fall, cave in
- to fall down, sink to the ground (person)
- to collapse, break down, decline, degenerate (fig. of a cultural phenomenon)
- to flock together rally
- to allege, claim, maintain
- to make undue claims, arrogate, assume unduly or presumptuously
- to affect, feign, simulate, pretend, purport
- blame, hold something against someone
- to call or appoint (someone to a chair for example)
These are the many definitions that are given in the two dictionaries. I think that as time went on the words were used in different ways and the language evolved. But I like to get to the root of the root. So my guess would be that a good english definition to sum up the root would be to "call, or summon." The word "invoke" comes to mind too.
Which brings us to the subject of Oracles or a means to "call, summon or even invoke" God. If you think about it, don't we use the Quran for guidance and is that so different than using other "oracles" such as casting lots or drawing straws In fact one could say that the Quran is an oracle in the sense that we use it to make decisions, get direction, insight and guidance.
So I was looking further at the above verses and I focused on
the next key root word that is being used in this verse is "jubb" (in red).
Here are the definitions as I found them in Hans Wehr and Lane
(plural )- well, cistern; pit
- to cut something or cut something off.
- extirpating or cutting off of genitals.
- To fecundate palmtrees
. - To surpass, or overcome, a people, or compony of men in grounds of pretension to respect or honour, or
in beauty, and in any or every manner. - a whiteness of the legs
rising to the knee and the hock of a horse. - the act of withdrawing from a thing outwardly or inwardly. The act of shrinking or being averse from something.
- the act of fleeing
- The act of vying, or contending for
superiority, in goodliness, or beauty. - vest or tunic or quilted garmet
- coat of mail or defense.
- Cutting off of the hump of a camel.
- Butter or what is produced by churning camels milk.
- the earth in general
and the next word after that in the Lane dictionary is (jubba)
which roughly is defined as to restrain, refrain or forebear.Is this the word that is most commonly translated as "answer?"
Thoughts on this would be appreciated.
Salam -
Salam,
One more thing comes to mind on the subject of oracles or drawing straws and casting lots....
In the Torah/Old Testament in Numbers chapters 16 and 17 Korah took men and gathered themselves against Moses and Aaron because they sought after the priesthood that Aaron and his sons shared (this is the best of my ability to sum up what happened in Numbers 16))...and in Numbers 17 rods were used to show the people that the priesthood belonged to Aaron and his sons. I have posted the english translation of 171 through 178 below.
(KJV translation)
171
And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
172
Speak unto the children of Israel, and take of every one of them a rod according to the house of their fathers, of all their princes according to the house of their fathers twelve rods write thou every man's name upon his rod.
173
And thou shalt write Aaron's name upon the rod of Levi for one rod shall be for the head of the house of their fathers.
174
And thou shalt lay them up in the tabernacle of the congregation before the testimony, where I will meet with you.
175
And it shall come to pass, that the man's rod, whom I shall choose, shall blossom and I will make to cease from me the murmurings of the children of Israel, whereby they murmur against you.
176
And Moses spake unto the children of Israel, and every one of their princes gave him a rod apiece, for each prince one, according to their fathers' houses, even twelve rods and the rod of Aaron was among their rods.
177
And Moses laid up the rods before the LORD in the tabernacle of witness.
178
And it came to pass, that on the morrow Moses went into the tabernacle of witness; and, behold, the rod of Aaron for the house of Levi was budded, and brought forth buds, and bloomed blossoms, and yielded almonds.Salam
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Peace Arnab,
some thoughts on what you wrote (I'm just going to be touching the things as referenced in the quran as I don't really want to delve in the torah)
Which brings us to the subject of Oracles or a means to "call, summon or even invoke" God. If you think about it, don't we use the Quran for guidance and is that so different than using other "oracles" such as casting lots or drawing straws In fact one could say that the Quran is an oracle in the sense that we use it to make decisions, get direction, insight and guidance.
There might be some negatives and positives to these methods. For example, we have things like a parrot picking cards at random when a person asks for guidance regarding their problems (not kidding, it really does happen in some places), and whether this method is actually something to be followed in order to receive guidance from God. Or we have casting lots, in which case, it's like a draw and a random person gets picked. This is not to say of course that the particular card/person etc picked eventually was not in God's control but whether it is something that should be practised regularly as a form of consultation or communication with God. These are usually classified as divination methods/auguries, which most civilizations used to practice in some form or the other through the times.
The positives can be
It is indeed something used to communicate with God that is looked upon favourably and can be practised regularly without any negative impacts.
To learn if this is so, we can check what the quran says about these forms of divination and what we know of them while contrasting it to the negatives that might come of them.
Negatives
random division or a form of such divination is frowned upon in the quran as posted previously. Now could this be that it would carry into other areas of the divination category?
Who determines during divination what signs are interpretated as what? Would we have a in-between like the oracles of old who were revered as mystic conduits to let us know what's what? Or maybe there is some guide/book that tells us what a particular throw of the dice/cards holds for our future? In which that would become a go-between to God's guidance?
If we do this frequently, would we stop gradually trying to get guidance from other sources and majorly depend on this for our guidance? It seems easy enough to do so, roll a die or pick a card and get an answer, why ponder upon what should be done in a problematic situation? In which case, if it is not what it seems to be, we are kinda stuck with something that is not very trustworthy.
In case of random draws/lots. If one doesn't have to pay anything to get in, there seems to be no problem as such. If one is paying for such random draws, then you have a problem that might exacerbate depending on a person's need to get addicted. I know some people who are quite addicted to buying certain bonds just because they might win a prize (far more money than what the bond is worth) in a random draw. I was quite addicted to bingo ashamed. I don't see it a problem in small controllable amounts, it's when the addiction takes over is when it might be a problem really. Secondly, to determine which person gets saddled with some responsibility by drawing lots for it, looks kinda fishy, if done deliberately. Random people getting lucky or unlucky in life is a bit different I guess. Then again, this situation would have some advantages to it, to avoid an altercation, to actually choose a person for a task with minimum hassle as it would be at random and everyone would be have equal chances to get picked, but is this a form of communication with God?
In the end I suppose it comes down to individuals. Personally, I would prefer a direct method with the least dependence on multiple sources to get guidance from God. If one compares the quran to other books and say it's the same thing and we can get equal guidance from all, it's a personal choice. I would choose the quran for spiritual guidance or moral quandaries to the exclusion of other books as that's my preference, though for other problems, like the best hair colour for my skin type, I'd probably look to clairol.
To add maybe these verses would shed some more light on it
4251 No human being can communicate with GOD except through inspiration, or from behind a barrier, or by sending a messenger through whom He reveals what He wills. He is the Most High, Most Wise.
4252 Thus, we inspired to you a revelation proclaiming our commandments. You had no idea about the scripture, or faith. Yet, we made this a beacon to guide whomever we choose from among our servants. Surely, you guide in a straight path