How Did it Come to This? (Part 1)
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Peace Oben,
I am sorry I can't buy the terminology of a city named Mecca to become destruction, because, as per 4824, the city was victored, not destroyed. Secondly, Mecca was never destroyed prior to, during and after "pre-quranic" times. Thirdly, assuming mecca meant destruction, then what city are you and Ayman talking about that bought destruction? Please provide your famous "archeological" evidence? If you notice, the verse also gives victory to "them" as well, which is a bit unclear and inconsistent.
Going with that reasoning, the cities of Berlin and London should be in ruins still. Other cities which have been sacked should also be non-existent. The fact is that the destruction of war whether it be to buildings or other things is passing. People rebuild the structures, institutions and social bonds.
Regards.
BTW No one is arguing that the modern city "Mecca" was destroyed etc. You're still convinced that the word "mecca" in the reading pertains to what the people have accepted it to mean. Does it really matter where it was? Could you not be who you are if it all happenned at the North Pole?
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Peace Danish,
The problem is that you consistently baffle around about ?pre-quranic? but when faced with a question as to when the Quran was revealed, you coughed it out as being not important. Now then, how do you figure something out from "pre-quranic" not knowing when it was actually compiled to begin with; meaning what evidence do you have about the year or century that is ?pre-quranic? in order to understand and support your claim whether Mecca (Makkah) existed or not before that time?
We don't know exactly when the great reading was descended and as I said pin pointing the date is not important from the point of view of the message. Academically, one can probably estimate late 6th - early 7th century CE (580's-610's). But this is only an estimate. Now for someone like you who thinks that the great reading is manmade, you are actually forced to admit this dating. Certainly a manmade book would have attempted to deal with the many significant events of the middle of the 7th century or at least show some bias towards those events. Had it been manmade, then the fact that the great reading doesn't mention any events of the Arab conquests or civil wars gives it a terminus ante quem date of no later than the 620s CE, which is when the Kingdom of the Arabs began and they started the rapid expansion into Persian and Byzantine territory. At any rate, as I said many times, the great reading must be judged not based on dating but based on the criteria that it sets for itself, namely internal consistency and the message it is conveying.
We know from the great reading that the people of the prophet venerated idols called Allat, Aluzza and Manat (5319-20) and this is confirmed by archeological evidence.
Could you please provide the name of this archeologist/s (or a link) who examined the idols in bold above? I?d like to witness the PROOFS of what's cookin?
Just look for yourself in the web site of the Saudi Antiquities. For example, you will see an invocation to Allat in this north Arabian inscription
http//www.mnh.si.edu/epigraphy/e_pre-islamic/fig22-safaitic09.htm
There are many such invocations to those idols in inscriptions in Arabia.
Actually ?Allah? at the Kaba is The God, The Supreme/The Almighty and Allat, Uzza and Manat were the goddesses (daughters of Allah) of which Allat was the chief goddess, including but not limited to idols such as Harut, Marut, Hubel, etc., and numerous other idols present at Kaba during Muhammad?s time. Muhammad destroyed almost all the idols leaving behind The Almighty Supreme along with few others; the angels and children of Allah.
This is false. The word "allah/al-ilah" is not the proper name of a deity. It is a generic noun meaning "the god". Similarly the word "kaaba" is not the proper name of a structure. It is a common noun that means "base". Thus, in Arabic "kaab al-wadi" means "the base of the valley". The cube idol was never called Kaaba and we never see the name Kaaba inscribed on one of those cubes. On the other hand, we find named of idols such as Allat and Dushara inscribed on those cubes and even sometimes those cube blocks were enhanced with an eye and a nose. Such blocks are commonly referred to as "jinn" blocks because they are ABSTRACT (imaginary) representations of the idols. This is probably relevant to the discussions going on about the translation of "jinn" (imagination/fantasy) on another thread on this forum.
Taken from Smithsonian National Museum (http//www.mnh.si.edu/epigraphy/e_islamic/islamic.htm)
"The first school of Arabic writing and calligraphy developed in the two Holy cities of Makkah and Medinah. The two well known scripts which were developed in Makkah and Medina were known as Makki and Madani scripts. These appeared long before the Kufi script and during the first century Hegra; the Arabic was written in two different styles known as Hard Kufi and Soft Kufi. The present form of Arabic writing with dots and signs developed around 2nd century Hegra (8th century AD).From the above, can you figure out the existence/period of Mecca (Makkah)?
You are wrong. This is taken from the Saudi Department of Antiquities. Read the top right-hand side of the web page. Such nonsense taken from pious fiction can be easily dismissed. Just look at all the inscriptions that they have on the site starting from the pre-Islamic all the way to the Islamic ones. You will not find a single example of this supposed Makkah and Medinah script. In fact, you will never find a single such example anywhere. In the area of central Arabia where Mecca is, the script used was the Musnad script, which is completely different to the Nabataean Aramaic script that evovled into the Kufic script. By the way, as an interesting side note, Kufa is another name for the city of Hira. When the city of Hira grew it became named Kufa. So unlike central Arabia where Musnad was the script used, Kufa is a natural setting for the development of the Arabic script as per the evidence in the article.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Oben,
I am sorry I can't buy the terminology of a city named Mecca to become destruction, because, as per 4824, the city was victored, not destroyed. Secondly, Mecca was never destroyed prior to, during and after "pre-quranic" times. Thirdly, assuming mecca meant destruction, then what city are you and Ayman talking about that bought destruction? Please provide your famous "archeological" evidence? If you notice, the verse also gives victory to "them" as well, which is a bit unclear and inconsistent.
Going with that reasoning, the cities of Berlin and London should be in ruins still. Other cities which have been sacked should also be non-existent. The fact is that the destruction of war whether it be to buildings or other things is passing. People rebuild the structures, institutions and social bonds.
With your reasoning based upon mine, you should be at Carnaby Lane in Oxford Street selling and buying cheesecloth.
BTW No one is arguing that the modern city "Mecca" was destroyed etc.
Neither am I or Ayman.
You're still convinced that the word "mecca" in the reading pertains to what the people have accepted it to mean.
Why, you don't believe in people....err...I mean humans?
Does it really matter where it was? Could you not be who you are if it all happenned at the North Pole?
Certainly, I could be at North Pole. But can you be at Mecca 1500 years ago?
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Peace Danish,
This is false. The word "allah/al-ilah" is not the proper name of a deity. It is a generic noun meaning "the god". Similarly the word "kaaba" is not the proper name of a structure. It is a common noun that means "base". Thus, in Arabic "kaab al-wadi" means "the base of the valley". The cube idol was never called Kaaba and we never see the name Kaaba inscribed on one of those cubes. On the other hand, we find named of idols such as Allat and Dushara inscribed on those cubes and even sometimes those cube blocks were enhanced with an eye and a nose. Such blocks are commonly referred to as "jinn" blocks because they are ABSTRACT (imaginary) representations of the idols. This is probably relevant to the discussions going on about the translation of "jinn" (imagination/fantasy) on another thread on this forum.
Peace,
Ayman
Salaam All,
Kaaba means cube. The structure in Mecca is cube shaped. Medina used to be called Yatrib. The words elah, ilah, eloh, elo, are all nouns. The article 'the' in Arabic 'al' is added to the noun ilah then it becomes al'ilah or allah, meaning 'The God or One God" and becomes a proper noun. Allah is one of those beautiful noun which is genderless noun and cannot be made into plural.
Old Testaments uses the noun eloh for god, and uses Elohim for God. Elohim is plural for the Royalty of God, just like in the Koran, when the Koran uses, "We" to denote God, which is Royalty. The Christians claimed that since Elohim is plural, so they invented the theory of trinity. Be aware of the disguised missionaries and their tactics. They translate the Holy Koran and distribute it in Muslim countries where they don't know Arabic very much and immorally and unethically try to confuse them. They translate the word, "We" in the Koran, as "We (the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit) . Of course, by "the Word" they mean Jesus the Son/Sun.
BEWARE OF MISSIONARIES DISGUISED AS MUSLIMS AND TRY TO CONFUSE OTHER MUSLIMS WITH THEIR CHARM, KNOWLEDGE OF ARABIC, AND ALL OTHER KNOWLEDGES! BEWARE OF SATAN DISGUISED IN THE CLOTHES OF SHEEP! BEWARE!
DON'T FALL FOR THIS COMMON TRICK! BEWARE!
How to read the Koran
Allah is Royalty, and therefore when royalty address the masses, they use, We, the King have decreed......; We (God) have commanded.......
When Allah address an individual in Koran rather than the masses, then it is, He (God) told Moses ........; Instead of I (God) told Moses..., the Koran uses Allah as third person.
And, when we human address Allah in Koran, we say Allah or You.....
I have inserted in the brackets (God) to show how the above examples work!
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Why Iblis (a jinn) was with the angels. Iblis was a very good abd (servant, devoted, who loved God and walked in the straight path) of God. So to make the story short God brought Iblis close to him just like the angels. God knew Iblis' nature, knew him well and God has his own plan. Thus the name Iblis, which means despair. Iblis refused God's direct command and was cast out from the garden. There is a sect in Iraq, (half Christians, half Muslims) which worship God and almost worship Iblis by keeping him in very high esteem. To them Iblis was such a good abd that he understood God's wish and willing took the fall, as it was in God's plan, thus fulfilling the Master's wishes. As the saying goes, your wish is my command!
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Dante's Inferno Hell Test is based on Dante's Divine Comedy, which was written in the early 1300s and is a classic in Christianity. So are Milton's Paradises Lost written in 1600s and Goethe's Faust in 1909, which again are both classic in Christianity. The recent work of Pullman's His Dark Materials is based on Milton's Paradise Lost.
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Culturally and linguistically there are two types of major religions in the world.
a. Semitic (children of Noah) based such as Judaism and Islam, who believe in monotheism of God and believe that God is not a human being. Their language is Semitic and their Scripture is written in Semitic language too, both the Talmud (TaNaKh) and the Koran.
b. Zoroastrianism based such as Hindus, Buddhist and Christians, who believe in the concept of trinity and believe that God is a human being. Believe in virgin births, resurrection and dualism of God, believe in 'God the evil and God the good'. Their languages are driven from Sanskrit, such as Koin the version of Greek used to write the New Testament and the Septuagint. The Zoroastrian are Iranians the Aryans, which Hitler was hell bent to create as the only race in the world. The symbol of Nazism called the swastika was the symbol of Mithra the Aryan/Zoroastrian God.
Mohamed
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Allah is one of those beautiful noun which is genderless noun and cannot be made into plural.
"beautiful noun"??? Just like al-ilah (the god) becomes Allah (The God), al-lihatun (the gods) becomes Alihatun (The Gods). Beautiful plural. P
Old Testaments uses the noun eloh for god, and uses Elohim for God. Elohim is plural for the Royalty of God, just like in the Koran, when the Koran uses, "We" to denote God, which is Royalty. The Christians claimed that since Elohim is plural, so they invented the theory of trinity. Be aware of the disguised missionaries and their tactics. They translate the Holy Koran and distribute it in Muslim countries where they don't know Arabic very much and immorally and unethically try to confuse them. They translate the word, "We" in the Koran, as "We (the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit) . Of course, by "the Word" they mean Jesus the Son/Sun.
How to read the Koran
Allah is Royalty, and therefore when royalty address the masses, they use, We, the King have decreed......; We (God) have commanded.......
When Allah address an individual in Koran rather than the masses, then it is, He (God) told Moses ........; Instead of I (God) told Moses..., the Koran uses Allah as third person.
And, when we human address Allah in Koran, we say Allah or You.....
Sure, when it comes to OT, their God Elohim is Royalty and becomes a plural sometimes addressing as "We", but when it comes to NT, your God Allah is also a Royalty but becomes a singular when addressing as "We".elektro It will be next to impossible for the hard-headed orthodox and extremists to understand the "We" part of Allah regardless of language. Allah is well protected.;D
In some cases (e.g. Ex. 34 ...Elohim called unto him out of the midst of the bush...), it acts as a singular noun in Hebrew grammar and is then generally understood to denote the single God of Israel. In other cases, Elohim acts as an ordinary plural of the word Eloah and refers to the polytheistic notion of multiple gods (for example, Ex. 203 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.). This may reflect the use of the word "Elohim" found in the late Bronze Age texts of Canaanite Ugarit, where Elohim ('lhm) was found to be a word denoting the entire Canaanite pantheon (the family of El , the patriarchal creator god).
In still other cases, the meaning is not clear from the text, but may refer to powerful beings (e.g. Gen. 62 the sons of Elohim saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them for wives...,)
Similar situations are found in Quran but I guess it works best for most Muslims when it comes to this
BEWARE OF MISSIONARIES DISGUISED AS MUSLIMS AND TRY TO CONFUSE OTHER MUSLIMS WITH THEIR CHARM, KNOWLEDGE OF ARABIC, AND ALL OTHER KNOWLEDGES! BEWARE OF SATAN DISGUISED IN THE CLOTHES OF SHEEP! BEWARE!
DON'T FALL FOR THIS COMMON TRICK! BEWARE!
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Did you check out my post on "The Stealth Crusade" for the threat of Missionaries
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=6976.0
Sounds familiar and very much common and alive in esepcially Christianity, including Islam, in promoting and converting their beliefs in various ways. Quite a competition. Such missionaries have knocked on my door many a time and left bewildered. The quieter ones are the Hindus and Budhists and the most peaceful of all are the Atheists in this regard, don't you think? And who knows, the Christians and Jews have collaborated to take back what Islam took away, once-upon-a-time and the battle continues, even among themselves, the worst notorious of all battles are witnessed within Islam where sects don't knock on their doors but knock their brains out.
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Salaam Danish,
If the Muslims are doing this, they should be ashamed of themselves. This goes againts the tenants of "freedom of religion" and "freedom of speech". This is considered illegal in most Muslim countries. I understand it is being done by the Ahmadiyyah / Qadiyanis group and is against the tenant of Islam and Koran
Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth stands out clear from error, and whoever rejects evil and believes in God has grasped the most trustworthy hand that never breaks. And, God is all Hearing and all Knowing (256) Chapter 2.
Mohamed
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In some cases (e.g. Ex. 34 ...Elohim called unto him out of the midst of the bush...), it acts as a singular noun in Hebrew grammar and is then generally understood to denote the single God of Israel. In other cases, Elohim acts as an ordinary plural of the word Eloah and refers to the polytheistic notion of multiple gods (for example, Ex. 203 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.). This may reflect the use of the word "Elohim" found in the late Bronze Age texts of Canaanite Ugarit, where Elohim ('lhm) was found to be a word denoting the entire Canaanite pantheon (the family of El , the patriarchal creator god).
In still other cases, the meaning is not clear from the text, but may refer to powerful beings (e.g. Gen. 62 the sons of Elohim saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them for wives...,)
BEWARE OF MISSIONARIES DISGUISED AS MUSLIMS AND TRY TO CONFUSE OTHER MUSLIMS WITH THEIR CHARM, KNOWLEDGE OF ARABIC, AND ALL OTHER KNOWLEDGES! BEWARE OF SATAN DISGUISED IN THE CLOTHES OF SHEEP! BEWARE!
DON'T FALL FOR THIS COMMON TRICK! BEWARE!
Salaam Danish,
When the OT refers to the Judaism God, then it uses the Royalty Elohim with a singular noun. When it uses the word, "gods" then it uses the word Elohim with plural noun. Remember the Semitic languages don't have capital letters to denote proper nouns and smalls letter to denote nouns. There are no capital and small letters in Semitic languages.
So the proper English would be when one means the God of Judaism then one should use the capital letter such as, "Elohim" in English to denote proper noun (God). When one means the gods of the pagans then one should use the small letter such as, "elohim" in English to denote plural noun (gods), or "eloh" to denote singular noun (god) in English. That is the reason the singular noun "Elohim" and plural nouns "elohim" is used in OT to convey the proper meanings as there are no capital and small letters in Semitic languages. It all goes back to
Culturally and linguistically there are two types of major religions in the world.
a. Semitic (children of Noah) based such as Judaism and Islam, who believe in monotheism of God and believe that God is not a human being. Their language is Semitic and their Scripture is written in Semitic language too, both the Talmud (TaNaKh) and the Koran.
b. Zoroastrianism based such as Hindus, Buddhist and Christians, who believe in the concept of trinity and believe that God is a human being. Believe in virgin births, resurrection and dualism of God, believe in 'God the evil and God the good'. Their languages are driven from Sanskrit, such as Koin the version of Greek used to write the New Testament and the Septuagint. The Zoroastrian are Iranians the Aryans, which Hitler was hell bent to create as the only race in the world. The symbol of Nazism called the swastika was the symbol of Mithra the Aryan/Zoroastrian God.
Mohamed
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Aladdin, in the history of mankind, in both polytheistic and monotheistic pagan dogmas, there's always been "freedom from religion" to bring about "freedom of/in religion" most mercilessly, just because of beliefs and systems grounded in heathenism.
Quran promotes neither the "Freedom of Religion" nor "Freedom of Speech", else all non-believers in Quran and hence Islam cannot be subjected to severe punishment. The verse "Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth stands out clear from error, and whoever rejects evil and believes in God has grasped the most trustworthy hand that never breaks. And, God is all Hearing and all Knowing (256) Chapter 2.", goes against Quran's own fundamental and rather forceful beliefs. Besides, the attributes of God are also questionable and to most extent meaningless (see Quranic Divinity and Nature of God sections).
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Peace aladdin, all,
Kaaba means cube.
No, "muka3ab" means cube.
The structure in Mecca is cube shaped.
If it was a cube it would be a "muka3ab"/cube. It is ironic that most people who revere this idol do not know that it is actually not a cube. The height is longer than the other sides. Making the height of the jinn block longer than the other dimensions was a common pagan practice to make the jinn block idol look bigger and more dramatic. You can see this here
http//nabataea.net/eyeidolsml.jpg
The article 'the' in Arabic 'al' is added to the noun ilah then it becomes al'ilah or allah, meaning 'The God or One God" and becomes a proper noun.
Adding the definite article in Arabic doesn't make a word a proper noun. Such made up rule simply doesn't exist in the Arabic language. You can see many examples in the great reading of words where the "al" definite article is added and yet they are not proper names. This is indisputable.
Allah is one of those beautiful noun which is genderless noun and cannot be made into plural.
The plural for al-ilah/allah is "al-alihat". Remember that al-ilah and allah are equivalent. This doesn't take away anything from the fact that there is only one god.
BEWARE OF MISSIONARIES DISGUISED AS MUSLIMS AND TRY TO CONFUSE OTHER MUSLIMS WITH THEIR CHARM, KNOWLEDGE OF ARABIC, AND ALL OTHER KNOWLEDGES! BEWARE OF SATAN DISGUISED IN THE CLOTHES OF SHEEP! BEWARE!
DON'T FALL FOR THIS COMMON TRICK! BEWARE!Thanks for the warning. Most missionaries are just as ignorant in the Arabic of the great reading and in physical archeological evidence as sectarian Sunnis or Shias, so they can be easily refuted.
- Why Iblis (a jinn) was with the angels. Iblis was a very good abd (servant, devoted, who loved God and walked in the straight path) of God. So to make the story short God brought Iblis close to him just like the angels. God knew Iblis' nature, knew him well and God has his own plan. Thus the name Iblis, which means despair. Iblis refused God's direct command and was cast out from the garden.
This story has many baseless speculations that are not supported by the great reading. Let's not take a true example from the great reading and weave a speculative fairy tale around it, otherwise we would be doing just like the missionaries.
a. Semitic (children of Noah) based such as Judaism and Islam, who believe in monotheism of God and believe that God is not a human being. Their language is Semitic and their Scripture is written in Semitic language too, both the Talmud (TaNaKh) and the Koran.
b. Zoroastrianism based such as Hindus, Buddhist and Christians, who believe in the concept of trinity and believe that God is a human being. Believe in virgin births, resurrection and dualism of God, believe in 'God the evil and God the good'. Their languages are driven from Sanskrit, such as Koin the version of Greek used to write the New Testament and the Septuagint. The Zoroastrian are Iranians the Aryans, which Hitler was hell bent to create as the only race in the world. The symbol of Nazism called the swastika was the symbol of Mithra the Aryan/Zoroastrian God.
Unfortunately, Judaism and Sectarian Islam have fallen in the same trap as the others. They have associated physical objects, humans, etc. to bring them near to The God. So the jews dream of building their temple to bring heaven on earth and the so-called Muslims spin around a stone and kiss it to go to heaven and think that the prophet's intercession will be their ticket into heaven. Also, many Hadiths attribute human physical qualities to The God (He be most exalted above what they describe).
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Danish,
Sounds familiar and very much common and alive in esepcially Christianity, including Islam, in promoting and converting their beliefs in various ways. Quite a competition. Such missionaries have knocked on my door many a time and left bewildered.
Missionaries have a dogmatic single-minded obsession with advancing a certain ideology. Therefore no matter what the subject is, they will always turn it around and focus on their dogma such as "Jesus will save you". Please try to stick to the subject under discussion on this thread instead of turning every thread you participate in into a single-minded obsession with advancing atheist ideology. This is a sincere advice so that you don't turn into an atheist missionary. Atheist missionaries are just as dogmatic as Christian or any other religious single-minded missionaries.
Peace,
Ayman
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Missionaries have a dogmatic single-minded obsession with advancing a certain ideology.
Ayman, I am well aware of mythical ideologies and mystical symbolisms in all religions, with or without missionaries.
Therefore no matter what the subject is, they will always turn it around and focus on their dogma such as "Jesus will save you".
Once again, such similarities exist in all religions. Jews talk about Eloah, Christians talk about Jesus and Muslims talk about Allah. Funny thing is that no matter what the outcome, Quran must remain Allah's words, by hook or by crook.
Please try to stick to the subject under discussion on this thread instead of turning every thread you participate in into a single-minded obsession with advancing atheist ideology. This is a sincere advice so that you don't turn into an atheist missionary. Atheist missionaries are just as dogmatic as Christian or any other religious single-minded missionaries.
Please check your own post/s you started this thread off with and ask yourself the obsession of changing Islam and history around. What was all that about, whom is it referencing and from where this thread strayed off. FYI, I'm neither an Atheist nor promoting it. I am questioning and criticizing the integrity of Quran and various pagan belief systems including Islam in retrospect, in similar fashions as yourself and others do unto others as they do unto themselves.
The picture of a Nabataen god you pasted in your prior post is just one of the many gods maintaing various shapes, sizes and forms. The Kaba was/is one of the cuboid stone structures well known long before Islam took over. It has nothing to do with sectarian belief, as there are several, and whether you like it or not, it is part of Islam. Today, people are hustling, bustling and twisting Quranic words to FIT their current beliefs, each having their own sophisticated versions. You cannot neglect nor fight history. Please have a look at the following links of interest
Nabataen gods
http//nabataea.net/blockgods.htmlSemitic gods
http//altreligion.about.com/library/graphics/bl_gilgamesh.htm
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_godsIslamic and pre-Islamic gods
http//www.palmyra.demon.co.uk/superstition/godsfestivals.htmGods by attributes and regions
http//www.mythome.org/MidEastconcord.htmlIs Allah god?s name
http//www.letusreason.org/Islam6.htmThe cult of moon god
http//www.biblebelievers.org.au/islam.htmHubal (The God)
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HubalAbrahamic religions
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religionsThe Failed Hypothesis (a must read)
http//www.colorado.edu/philosophy/vstenger/Godless/Fail.pdfThe God and US
http//www.ghandchi.com/363-GodAndUsEng.htm -
Salaam Ayman,
This is the trick the missionaries play on unsuspecting Muslims that they run them into circle by making Arabic very literal. Of course, non Arabic Muslims get charmed and dazed by it, as their knowledge of Arabic is very limited. For example, when I said, "kaaba means cube." Ayman says,"No, "muka3ab" means cube."
See the connection with, kaaba and mukaab , when one removes the 3 from muka3ab, to make it simple, such as mukaab and kaaba. I am really dazed and charmed by this, such as the serpent charmed and dazed Eve and Adam. See the connection when the British say, India. And the Hindi people say it is Hind. Look at India and Hindi, the letter "H" is removed from Hindi to make it "Indi" and then the letter "a" is added at the end to make it, India. Catch the drift with the two Arabic words, kaaba and mukaab, without the 3 inserted in it.
BEWARE OF THE LITERAL CHARMER! BEWARE OF THE WHISPER! BEWARE! AND READ BELOW!
Arabic is very vast and here is an aya in Arabic, with literal translation and translated by many translators who are scholars.
Maryam 019065
Transliteration Rabbu alssamawati waal-ardi wama baynahuma faoAAbudhu waistabir liAAibadatihi hal taAAlamu lahu samiyyan
Literal The skies'/space's and the earth's/Planet Earth's and what (is) between them (B)'s Lord, so worship Him, and endure patience to His worshipping, do you know (an) equivalent to Him?"
Yusuf Ali "Lord of the heavens and of the earth, and of all that is between them; so worship Him, and be constant and patient in His worship knowest thou of any who is worthy of the same Name as He?"
Pickthal Lord of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them! Therefor, worship thou Him and be thou steadfast in His service. Knowest thou one that can be named along with Him?
Arberry And thy Lord is never forgetful, Lord He of the heavens and earth and all that is between them. So serve Him, and be thou patient in His service; knowest thou any that can be named with His Name?
Shakir The Lord of the heavens and the earth and what is between them, so serve Him and be patient in His service. Do you know any one equal to Him?
Sarwar He is the Lord of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them. Worship Him and be steadfast in your worship of Him; none is equal to Him.
Khalifa The Lord of the heavens and the earth, and everything between them; you shall worship Him and steadfastly persevere in worshiping Him. Do you know of anyone who equals Him?
Hilali/Khan Lord of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them, so worship Him (Alone) and be constant and patient in His worship. Do you know of any who is similar to Him? (of course none is similar or coequal or comparable to Him, and He has none as partner with Him). (There is nothing like unto Him and He is the All-Hearer, the All-Seer).
Hilali/Khan revised Lord of the heavens and the earth and whatever is between them so worship Him and have patience for His worship. Do you know of any similarity to Him?"
Malik He is the Lord of the heavens and the earth, and of all that lies in between, so worship Him, be steadfast in His worship. Do you know any other being with the qualities like Him?"
QXP Lord of the heavens and the earth and all things between them! Therefore, serve Him steadfastly and be constant in His service. Do you know anyone that can be named along with Him?
Maulana Ali Lord of the heavens and the earth and what is between them, so serve Him and be patient in His service. Knowest thou any one equal to Him?
Free Minds "The Lord of the heavens and the Earth and what is in-between them. So serve Him and be patient in His service. Do you know anything that is like Him?"
George Sale He is the Lord of heaven and earth, and of whatsoever is between them Wherefore worship Him, and be constant in his worship. Dost thou know any named like Him?
JM Rodwell Lord of the Heavens and of the Earth, and of all that is between them! Worship Him, then, and abide thou steadfast in his worship. Knowest thou any other of the same name?
Asad the Sustainer of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them! Worship, then, Him alone, and remain steadfast in His worship! Dost thou know any whose name is worthy to be mentioned side by side with His?"
See, the literal translation and compare it with the many translation by the scholars. See the difference between the literal and the many translations. Arabic is very vast language. Yes, the beautiful names belong to Allah. And, Allah is a name, and some names have meanings too. Names, such as Hassan and Hussein have meanings too, but they are names. Just like Iblis, which is a name and has meaning too. How many ways different names in Arabic are written in English, such as Muhammad, Muhammed, Mohammad, Mohammed, Mohamed, Mohamet, Mohmet and so on.
The missionaries charm and dazzle the unsuspecting Muslims with their literal translation of Arabic, just like in OT, the snake charms and dazzle Eve and Adam.
BEWARE OF THE LITERAL CHARMER! BEWARE!
It is good to know the root and literal meaning of a word, but it should be a starting point for the journey to continue! Not the end of the journey!
To read on the missionaries and how they work of unsuspecting Muslims, read the following post carefully
Check out "The Stealth Crusade" for the threat of missionaries and the methods they use to work on unsuspecting Muslims
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=6976.0
By the way, there is no serpent mentioned in Koran. Yes, I forgot, it is only mentioned with Moses and his rod. The Kaaba used to be cube, but with taller people these days, maybe it has changed it shape after 1500 years. Big deal? Do Muslims worship kaaba or Allah. Catch my drift? The photo produce by Ayman of kaaba does look pagan. Big deal? It is charming and yes it did contain idols, but not anymore. Catch my drift. Here is a picture of kaaba
http//www.islamawakened.com/default.htm
There are even some Muslims who due to their pronunciation of Arabic language, mispronounce kaaba (cube) and then the meaning becomes, "prostitute". So what? Big deal? Catch my drift?
My friend Ayman cautions us about the great knowledge of archeology and to quote him
Thanks for the warning. Most missionaries are just as ignorant in the Arabic of the great reading and in physical archaeological evidence as sectarian Sunnis or Shias, so they can be easily refuted.
Peace,
Ayman
The serpents are now trying to razzle dazzle us with archeology and here is the archaeological picture of kaaba sumitted by Ayman
http//nabataea.net/eyeidolsml.jpg
Thanks for charming us. I am razzled dazzled by the above archaeological picture of kaaba. Now the real Muslims, who have overcome with joy should do somersaults. I can only say
Alleluyah! Alleluiah! Halleluiah! Hallelujah! Allaluiah!
Mohamed
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It's not Arnab.
See the connection with, kaaba and mukaab , when one removes the 3 from muka3ab, to make it simple, such as mukaab and kaaba.
I don't see it. I must be blinded by the cautionary red font. Have you read the thread in it's entirety as well as his other articles also on the main site? Just curious.
See the connection when the British say, India and the Hindi people say it is Hind. Look at India and Hindi, the letter "H" is removed from Hindi to make it "Indi" and then the letter "a" is added at the end to make it, India.
Um, are you serious here?
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Peace Aladdin, all,
The Kaaba used to be cube, but with taller people these days, maybe it has changed it shape after 1500 years. Big deal?
Just like the missionaries who ignore that Christmas was a pre-existing pagan festival, you ignore that there are many pre-existing jinn blocks that have exactly the same shape like the one in Mecca. Those jinn blocks are older than 1500 years. So we know that the shape has remained the same and it was never a cube.
The big deal is that you come here to defend this pagan structure while you are ignorant of even the most basic information about it such as its shape. This is just like Christian missionaries who defend their ideology while being ignorant about its source.
Another big deal is that just like Christian missionaries when you are faced with the truth, you hide this obvious truth behind spontaneous illogical apologetic speculations such as "with taller people these days, maybe it has changed it shape after 1500 years".
Are you a missionary for the so-called Kaaba?
Do Muslims worship kaaba or Allah. Catch my drift?
Sectarian Muslims surely serve the so-called Kaaba. Haven't you heard of the "servant of the two holy mosques"?
- Surely the pure obligation is to The God alone and those who took less than Him as protectors (say) "We do not serve them except so that they bring us nearer to The God." Indeed, The God will judge between them in what they are differing in.
Just like sectarians who make the so-called Kaaba the center of attention to bring them nearer to The God, if you ask Christians and pagans, they will say that a cross or a statue is simply a means to focus and bring them nearer to The God and they don't "worship" it.
If you are walking in the desert near your hometown and you come across some people who have built a stone structure and are spinning around it and kissing and fondling a stone set in an enclosure in one of its corners, what would you instinctively think? You would instinctively think that those people belong to some weird pagan cult. This is the natural instinct that The God put in all of us. The symbols and rituals are exactly the same in Mecca. The only reason why you don't think the same when you see people doing the same exact thing with the same sort of objects in Mecca is that you have been brainwashed to suppress your natural God-given instinct.
The photo produce by Ayman of kaaba does look pagan. Big deal? It is charming and yes it did contain idols, but not anymore. Catch my drift.
All the similar jinn blocks that predate the so-called Kaaba do not contain idols. Those stone blocks were themselves the idols.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Danish,
The Kaba was/is one of the cuboid stone structures well known long before Islam took over.
This is patently false. There is no mention of the word Ka3ba anywhere in pre-quranic or early post-quranic times in relation to any stone structure. Those stone structures are jinn blocks and they are associated with Arabian idols such as Allat. If you disagree, then show us one inscription or manuscript from "long before Islam took over" that gives the name Ka3ba as that of a stone structure.
Deep inside, there is not much difference between the basis of your beliefs and those of Sunnis or Shias. You both have blind faith in baseless sectarian mythology linking the word "kaaba" in the great reading to the stone structure and you ignore to bring any real evidence to support your claims. Your ideas are an example of atheist Sunnism.
Peace,
Ayman
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Hello Ayman,
This is patently false. There is no mention of the word Ka3ba anywhere in pre-quranic or early post-quranic times in relation to any stone structure. Those stone structures are jinn blocks and they are associated with Arabian idols such as Allat. If you disagree, then show us one inscription or manuscript from "long before Islam took over" that gives the name Ka3ba as that of a stone structure.
There lies not a shred of doubt that the word Kaka or kaaba has always meant a cuboid structure (a derivative of mukaab), one of which was located at Mecca and worshipped by Muhammad. Pre-quranic or post-quranic evidence of this word exists itself throughout ahadiths, Quran (595 & 597), gazillion religious and non-religious websites, encyclopedias and dictionaries and above all, clearly being witnessed today. Your call for this word to be patently false and not mentioned anywhere is brutal and insane and then calling it jinn blocks, when jinn means hidden, is even sillier. And if jinn meant devils, then worshipping these blocks by Muslims and all other religious denominations speak for themselves. We also know via historical facts that the Kaba at Mecca had been destroyed and rebuilt several times, so much so, that it has now been paintstakenly lavished to accomodate millions of Muslims throughout the world, who not only bow and prostrate towards it on a daily basis, but pay homage to Allah (The God) at least once a year.
Quran 595
Khalifa
O you who believe, do not kill any game during pilgrimage. Anyone who kills any game on purpose, his fine shall be a number of livestock animals that is equivalent to the game animals he killed. The judgment shall be set by two equitable people among you. They shall make sure that the offerings reach the Ka`bah. Otherwise, he may expiate by feeding poor people, or by an equivalent fast to atone for his offense. GOD has pardoned past offenses. But if anyone returns to such an offense, GOD will avenge it. GOD is Almighty, Avenger.Yusuf Ali
O ye who believe! Kill not game while in the sacred precincts or in pilgrim garb. If any of you doth so intentionally, the compensation is an offering, brought to the Ka'ba, of a domestic animal equivalent to the one he killed, as adjudged by two just men among you; or by way of atonement, the feeding of the indigent; or its equivalent in fasts that he may taste of the penalty of his deed. God forgives what is past for repetition God will exact from him the penalty. For God is Exalted, and Lord of Retribution.Shakir
O you who believe! do not kill game while you are on pilgrimage, and whoever among you shall kill it intentionally, the compensation (of it) is the like of what he killed, from the cattle, as two just persons among you shall judge, as an offering to be brought to the Kaaba or the expiation (of it) is the feeding of the poor or the equivalent of it in fasting, that he may taste the unwholesome result of his deed; Allah has pardoned what is gone by; and whoever returns (to it), Allah will inflict retribution on him; and Allah is Mighty, Lord of Retribution."Progressive Muslims"
O you who believe, do not kill any game while you are restricted; and whosoever of you kills it deliberately, then the recompense is to expiate with the same from the livestock, to be judged by of justice from you in the form of a fine which shall reach the Kaab'a; or its cancellation shall be using it to feed the needy ones, while he is denied anything from it; that is to suffer the results of his deed; God forgives what has past. And whosoever returns, then God will seek vengeance from him. God is Noble, capable of vengeance.Quran 597
Khalifa
GOD has appointed the Ka`bah, the Sacred Masjid, to be a sanctuary for the people, and also the Sacred Months, the offerings (to the Sacred Masjid), and the garlands marking them. You should know that GOD knows everything in the heavens and the earth, and that GOD is Omniscient.Yusuf Ali
God made the Ka'ba, the Sacred House, an asylum of security for men, as also the Sacred Months, the animals for offerings, and the garlands that mark them That ye may know that God hath knowledge of what is in the heavens and on earth and that God is well acquainted with all things.Shakir
Allah has made the Kaaba, the sacred house, a maintenance for the people, and the sacred month and the offerings and the sacrificial animals with garlands; this is that you may know that Allah knows whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth, and that Allah is the Knower of all things."Progressive Muslims"
God Has made the Kaab'a the restricted Shrine, as a standing for the people, and the restricted month, and the guidance, and what is posted; that is so you know that God knows what is in heavens and what is in earth, and that God is aware of all things.Deep inside, there is not much difference between the basis of your beliefs and those of Sunnis or Shias. You both have blind faith in baseless sectarian mythology linking the word "kaaba" in the great reading to the stone structure and you ignore to bring any real evidence to support your claims. Your ideas are an example of atheist Sunnism.
Real evidence is mentioned above and in the links provided below. Never heard of "atheist Sunnism", LOL! As I mentioned earlier, it is not possible for you or others to neglect or fight history to bring about newer versions of Islam. You either put up with it or invent your own religion. Can't change facts and can't rely solely on root to shoot.
Jinn blocks
http//aig.cs.man.ac.uk/people/mashhuda/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=Jordan_2002&id=Petra_jinn_blocksKaaba blocks (first picture is of the above link)
http//www.usna.edu/Users/humss/bwheeler/kaaba_blocks.htmlStelas (simply means stone or wooden slabs and pillars)
http//www.usna.edu/Users/humss/bwheeler/nabat_stela.htmlList of tombs and shrines
http//www.usna.edu/Users/humss/bwheeler/alpha_index_tombs.htmlVarious Quran manuscripts
http//www.usna.edu/Users/humss/bwheeler/quran/quran_index.htmlPetra brief
http//www.usna.edu/Users/humss/bwheeler/petra.htmlhttp//nabataea.net/blockgods.html
The word Kaaba found in encyclopedias and dictionaries
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaabahttp//www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Kaaba
http//dictionary.reference.com/browse/kaba