Question about ..
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peace
Red vine contains a substance that has been proven to improve health and prolong life. It's healthy, unless you abuse it. So I don't think (and I think we agree Ahmed) that the quran says "never drink alcohol at all" but we just need to be careful. Alcohol is just like anyother drug, as I see it. But I probably won't touch alcohol in my life (maybe a bit of red wine when I'm older), but I just don't think the quran completely outlaws drinking it. -
peace
Red vine contains a substance that has been proven to improve health and prolong life. It's healthy, unless you abuse it. So I don't think (and I think we agree Ahmed) that the quran says "never drink alcohol at all" but we just need to be careful. Alcohol is just like anyother drug, as I see it. But I probably won't touch alcohol in my life (maybe a bit of red wine when I'm older), but I just don't think the quran completely outlaws drinking it.yep the Quran didn't completely outlow shirk by using the word haram, nor qawl al zoor neither zina, so how your ogic stands then?
now i tasted the red wine, it tastes s*** actually as well you get horrible headche, and if you see how they do it in australia you will throw out, it is disgusting man, they use their bear foot to squash the grapes, far out
10 times of 10 when I drank alcohol years ago, i had to be sick
the only reason to drink it is to get high, don't fool yourself mate and say it is bloody healthy, there are zillions of other healthy stuff that you can take, why red wine? oh yeh, to get high for sure, then to do something wrong and bloody blame alocohol
Jerry, Jerry, Jerry, Jerry
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peace Ahmed,
No, maybe you drank alcohol to "get high," but not everyone does or did. I'm sure that the benefits of red wine are found in other places, but so do the benefits of the quran. You may have abused alcohol, but that doesn't mean you assume that everyone else does. Yeah people get drunk, but that's exactly what the quran is telling us not to do.
In any case, I don't think we HAVE to drink alcohol, and I probably won't as I said. So, yeah, it doesn't matter much to me whether drinking it is actually forbidden or not.
But you have to wonder, why does the quran forbid alcohol (which makes sense), and pig meat (which really doesn't) and does not forbid thousands of other substances that can instantly kill you? -
AOA guys
In the end, I think that Alcohol has not been labelled as haram by Allah. I mean if someone stays in their limits then what harm? I mean I drank yesterday but I still remembered Allah etc. I dont believe in getting drunk because that is just absolutely absurd. Its quite a complex issue to decide whether drinking alcohol is allowed or not. The verse which actually forced me to think that alcohol is allowed was the one in which it is said that we should not approach prayer when intoixcated ... I mean if it was prohibited then why mention it all in this Ayat?
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ammarb87 wrote
The verse which actually forced me to think that alcohol is allowed was the one in which it is said that we should not approach prayer when intoixcated ...
since the verse does not make approaching salat in a state of intoxication "haram"...it's probably not forbidden! -)
aoa! -)
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PEace Ammar
It depends on your definition of salat. We can't conveniently use the sunni traditional version when we like and in another aya use another version. We must be consistent. If you believe salat is a ritual prayer done 5 or 3 or 2 times a day, then i guess you just have to make sure you're not drinking during those times. If you believe salat is alot more than that, then there goes drinking out the door cuz you're in a constant state of salat.
You can't pick and choose if you believe something stick to it all the way thru - even if it's less convenient.
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peace
I agree with Boost.
But I guess we must do what we know is right. There's this thing called "Natural Law." It is a law that governs everything in nature, it's the way everything happens, and we can discover that natural law using reason. Natural law to me says drinking alcohol is bad for you. So I won't do it. Regardless of what the quran says. -
Im with boost and phoenix on this all the way
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Peace
Possibly it is the only thing you can not do and offer Salat provided all other conditions for salat are fulfilled.
Salat is essential whatever a person does; even if he commits some sin or does contrary to any commands. Example even if someone steals, eats pork, tells a lie or back bites etc the person has to do salat. But if a person takes intoxicants he is not supposed to do Salat since the person might not be mentally geared to do it properly and might say some nonsense during salat. So do not use this verse as an excuse to drink but just make sure that if you drink do not do salat while you are drunk.
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warner wrote
Possibly it is the only thing you can not do and offer Salat provided all other conditions for salat are fulfilled.Salat is essential whatever a person does; even if he commits some sin or does contrary to any commands. Example even if someone steals, eats pork, tells a lie or back bites etc the person has to do salat. But if a person takes intoxicants he is not supposed to do Salat since the person might not be mentally geared to do it properly and might say some nonsense during salat. So do not use this verse as an excuse to drink but just make sure that if you drink do not do salat while you are drunk.
if somebody contends that it is not forbidden to drink alcohol because the quran does not say explicitly (that) "alcohol is haram"...
..i dont see why approaching salat should be made an exception...it has not been explicitly made "haram"! -)
peace! -)
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AOA guys
OK this question has probably been asked a million times but does the article on alcohol on the freeminds website say that it's fine to drink alcohol ? The article is quite convincing though!Salam.
Allah knows best but i see something else in this question. I think and i could be wrong but i think you're, like, asking for approval to drink alcohol, or am i wrong? I mean, sometimes i ask a question, even though i already knows the answer ....
No offence, brother.
Peace.
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AOA
Tbh, you have caught me out .. Yeah I want some kind of approval but I want evidence with it as well! Im not that stupid to get approval from people because Allah is the ultimate!
I mean the other verse which is confusing me is that wine will be allowed in Heaven but not on earth? -
Peace
4 43
Pickthall O ye who believe! Draw not near unto prayer when ye are drunken, till ye know that which ye utter, nor when ye are polluted, save when journeying upon the road, till ye have bathed. And if ye be ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have touched women, and ye find not water, than go to high clean soil and rub your faces and your hands (therewith). Lo! Allah is Benign, Forgiving.
The verse 443 does not say you are allowed to drink except when you are doing salat it says do not do salat when you are drunk and not in a position to know what you are saying.
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Peace
The Quraan says the man and the woman who commits zina should be striped 100 times if proven with 4 witnesses.
The husband gets to take the dower/mahar back.
The husband can turn her out of the house.
Divorce becomes automatic.
The man and the woman who committed zina can not be married to believers.
The list shows the offense should be serious for the punishments to be severe.
Even if you smack a 3 year old few times not hundred times for doing something (I do not recommend violence against children) the child knows whether that ?something? he/she did is forbidden or not.
I think the punishments prescribed are sufficient to determine the seriousness of the offense.
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Peace
Punishment in the quran is given for crimes against society. Becoming intoxicated would fall under the category of wronging your own soul and therefore there is no punishment society needs to place on you. Unless and until that intoxication leads to crimes against society because someone thought they could just stay sober for salat and still act a fool.
and bro Ammar i really think you need to sit down with your self and see why you really seek approval on this matter specifically. This is not the first thread you opened with the same topic. If you feel guilty for doing something, either figure out why you feel guilty and resolve that or stop doing what makes you feel guilty. If you want my advice, drinking to follow crowds might just be the most retarded thing a person can do. I mean no offense by it because i tried it when i was young and impressionable. but the taste was as* and i hated the way it made me act. i realized i could have ten times more fun drinking something that actually tastes sweet like virgin coctails AND being aware of all the fun going on around me. Its ok to experiment to figure out what suits you but there has to be some point where you stop following and start leading - at least leading your own self.
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Peace Boost
Peace
Punishment in the quran is given for crimes against society. Becoming intoxicated would fall under the category of wronging your own soul and therefore there is no punishment society needs to place on you. Unless and until that intoxication leads to crimes against society because someone thought they could just stay sober for salat and still act a fool.
Did anyone say in this thread that there is punishment for drinking alcohol ?
...Punishment in the quran is given for crimes against society....
This is a short sighted generalization.
Quraan prescribes punishments for crimes against society and crimes against
the individual.In the case of (unmarried) men and/or a women committing fahisha are punished by confining to the house until they repent and amend.
Is this punishment for crimes against society or individual or punishment prescribed by Allah for breaking His command ?
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Peace Bro Warner
Did anyone say in this thread that there is punishment for drinking alcohol ?
Well that's my point exactly. There is none and the reason why is because it is a crime against one's soul and does not effect society, unless and until it gets taken a step further.
You mentioned fahisha as not being a wrong to society. I beg to differ. If two people were in complete view of at least 4 people, had unmarital sex which may bring about unwanted pregnancies, and disrespect the dignity of their families, i see many wrongs done to the community. The God does not need His own "morality" police to punish those who wrong their souls - simply because none of us are in the position to judge others on morality given the fact that we are all imperfect in that respect. Therefore, tried and true, all punishments mandated for humans to carry out on humans are for those wrongs that effect the community.
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Peace be with you
Fahisha is any kind of unlawful sex.
It is not exclusively sex in public for 4 or more people to see. The notion about public sex is debatable. Quraan specifies 4 witnesses for someone to receive punishment for committing fahisha which can be unlawful sex in private or in public. God?s laws are to be obeyed even if there are no pregnancies, STDs involved and no disrespect involved to the family. If the law is broken the authorities or the society has the right to punish according to Gods command. There is no moral policing involved. The term crime against society is a coined up word, without any Quranic support, by people who want to project the new face islam.
If someone steals a persons money etc how can this be a crime against society? Is this not a crime against an individual.