Question about ..
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PEace Ammar
It depends on your definition of salat. We can't conveniently use the sunni traditional version when we like and in another aya use another version. We must be consistent. If you believe salat is a ritual prayer done 5 or 3 or 2 times a day, then i guess you just have to make sure you're not drinking during those times. If you believe salat is alot more than that, then there goes drinking out the door cuz you're in a constant state of salat.
You can't pick and choose if you believe something stick to it all the way thru - even if it's less convenient.
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peace
I agree with Boost.
But I guess we must do what we know is right. There's this thing called "Natural Law." It is a law that governs everything in nature, it's the way everything happens, and we can discover that natural law using reason. Natural law to me says drinking alcohol is bad for you. So I won't do it. Regardless of what the quran says. -
Im with boost and phoenix on this all the way
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Peace
Possibly it is the only thing you can not do and offer Salat provided all other conditions for salat are fulfilled.
Salat is essential whatever a person does; even if he commits some sin or does contrary to any commands. Example even if someone steals, eats pork, tells a lie or back bites etc the person has to do salat. But if a person takes intoxicants he is not supposed to do Salat since the person might not be mentally geared to do it properly and might say some nonsense during salat. So do not use this verse as an excuse to drink but just make sure that if you drink do not do salat while you are drunk.
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warner wrote
Possibly it is the only thing you can not do and offer Salat provided all other conditions for salat are fulfilled.Salat is essential whatever a person does; even if he commits some sin or does contrary to any commands. Example even if someone steals, eats pork, tells a lie or back bites etc the person has to do salat. But if a person takes intoxicants he is not supposed to do Salat since the person might not be mentally geared to do it properly and might say some nonsense during salat. So do not use this verse as an excuse to drink but just make sure that if you drink do not do salat while you are drunk.
if somebody contends that it is not forbidden to drink alcohol because the quran does not say explicitly (that) "alcohol is haram"...
..i dont see why approaching salat should be made an exception...it has not been explicitly made "haram"! -)
peace! -)
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AOA guys
OK this question has probably been asked a million times but does the article on alcohol on the freeminds website say that it's fine to drink alcohol ? The article is quite convincing though!Salam.
Allah knows best but i see something else in this question. I think and i could be wrong but i think you're, like, asking for approval to drink alcohol, or am i wrong? I mean, sometimes i ask a question, even though i already knows the answer ....
No offence, brother.
Peace.
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AOA
Tbh, you have caught me out .. Yeah I want some kind of approval but I want evidence with it as well! Im not that stupid to get approval from people because Allah is the ultimate!
I mean the other verse which is confusing me is that wine will be allowed in Heaven but not on earth? -
Peace
4 43
Pickthall O ye who believe! Draw not near unto prayer when ye are drunken, till ye know that which ye utter, nor when ye are polluted, save when journeying upon the road, till ye have bathed. And if ye be ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have touched women, and ye find not water, than go to high clean soil and rub your faces and your hands (therewith). Lo! Allah is Benign, Forgiving.
The verse 443 does not say you are allowed to drink except when you are doing salat it says do not do salat when you are drunk and not in a position to know what you are saying.
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Peace
The Quraan says the man and the woman who commits zina should be striped 100 times if proven with 4 witnesses.
The husband gets to take the dower/mahar back.
The husband can turn her out of the house.
Divorce becomes automatic.
The man and the woman who committed zina can not be married to believers.
The list shows the offense should be serious for the punishments to be severe.
Even if you smack a 3 year old few times not hundred times for doing something (I do not recommend violence against children) the child knows whether that ?something? he/she did is forbidden or not.
I think the punishments prescribed are sufficient to determine the seriousness of the offense.
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Peace
Punishment in the quran is given for crimes against society. Becoming intoxicated would fall under the category of wronging your own soul and therefore there is no punishment society needs to place on you. Unless and until that intoxication leads to crimes against society because someone thought they could just stay sober for salat and still act a fool.
and bro Ammar i really think you need to sit down with your self and see why you really seek approval on this matter specifically. This is not the first thread you opened with the same topic. If you feel guilty for doing something, either figure out why you feel guilty and resolve that or stop doing what makes you feel guilty. If you want my advice, drinking to follow crowds might just be the most retarded thing a person can do. I mean no offense by it because i tried it when i was young and impressionable. but the taste was as* and i hated the way it made me act. i realized i could have ten times more fun drinking something that actually tastes sweet like virgin coctails AND being aware of all the fun going on around me. Its ok to experiment to figure out what suits you but there has to be some point where you stop following and start leading - at least leading your own self.
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Peace Boost
Peace
Punishment in the quran is given for crimes against society. Becoming intoxicated would fall under the category of wronging your own soul and therefore there is no punishment society needs to place on you. Unless and until that intoxication leads to crimes against society because someone thought they could just stay sober for salat and still act a fool.
Did anyone say in this thread that there is punishment for drinking alcohol ?
...Punishment in the quran is given for crimes against society....
This is a short sighted generalization.
Quraan prescribes punishments for crimes against society and crimes against
the individual.In the case of (unmarried) men and/or a women committing fahisha are punished by confining to the house until they repent and amend.
Is this punishment for crimes against society or individual or punishment prescribed by Allah for breaking His command ?
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Peace Bro Warner
Did anyone say in this thread that there is punishment for drinking alcohol ?
Well that's my point exactly. There is none and the reason why is because it is a crime against one's soul and does not effect society, unless and until it gets taken a step further.
You mentioned fahisha as not being a wrong to society. I beg to differ. If two people were in complete view of at least 4 people, had unmarital sex which may bring about unwanted pregnancies, and disrespect the dignity of their families, i see many wrongs done to the community. The God does not need His own "morality" police to punish those who wrong their souls - simply because none of us are in the position to judge others on morality given the fact that we are all imperfect in that respect. Therefore, tried and true, all punishments mandated for humans to carry out on humans are for those wrongs that effect the community.
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Peace be with you
Fahisha is any kind of unlawful sex.
It is not exclusively sex in public for 4 or more people to see. The notion about public sex is debatable. Quraan specifies 4 witnesses for someone to receive punishment for committing fahisha which can be unlawful sex in private or in public. God?s laws are to be obeyed even if there are no pregnancies, STDs involved and no disrespect involved to the family. If the law is broken the authorities or the society has the right to punish according to Gods command. There is no moral policing involved. The term crime against society is a coined up word, without any Quranic support, by people who want to project the new face islam.
If someone steals a persons money etc how can this be a crime against society? Is this not a crime against an individual.
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PEace Bro Warner
When I say a wrong done to a community i don't necessarily mean the entire community, although repercussions of an act always travel far. Stealing is a wrong done to at least one other person, not to the self.
Fahisha is only punished by humans when there are witnesses to the specific act that took place.
The issue of 4 witnesses makes it public automatically. You cannot privately have sex and have 4 people watch at the same time. You are 100% right that the God's laws must be obeyed even if nobody sees. Which refers back to why we shouldn't wrong our souls with becoming intoxicated even if there is no human punishment for it. Just because there is no punishment humans can enforce on humans for becoming intoxicated does not make it ok to get drunk by the God. We are not His police on earth, nor were we meant to be.I don't see this as a "new face of islam" and i don't mean to project anything. This is only my humble opinion, and it seems to be an opinion i share with other people here as well. No conspiracy to change Islam here ) We may be wrong and you're right in the end - we can only tell if we discuss stuff like we are now.
If you are interested in understanding the other side of the coin, maybe it would help if you think about all the wrongs you could do according to the quran and divide them between those that are done that involve other people and those that are done that involve only you. then see which ones we as humans are commanded to punish and which ones we can't.
I feel like this is the same argument people make for having 4 wives. Well the God tells me I can. But He also says to be fair and you can NEVER be fair - so do what's right. It's the same with alcohol. the God says, it has a benefit but it also has a harm and is the work of the devil. Then He says yea drink but don't do salat if you do. Well if someone tells me yes eat that but if you do don't ever talk to me - i would assume He's not trying to tell me yea its cool go for it. If you have super human tricks so that you can drink and still do salat (again what does the word mean to you) then i guess you've got that super human power to be fair to 4 wives with your love as well. Sometimes its best not to jump thru hoops to try and practice a verse, but rather just take it as common sense face value. I ask someone "what are your thoughts on garlic?" He tells me "garlic has some benefit but it also has some harm (bad breath)... actually you know what if you wanna eat it just don't talk to me cuz that's nasty" I don't have to jump thru hoops to understand what he's telling me. If i eat it i gotta stay away from him. If i don't want to stay away from him, i'm gonna have to give up eating it. So you decide if you want to break your connection with the God for awhile so you can have some disgusting nasty tasting cup of... God let me stop.
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Peace Boost
Appreciate your detailed reply. I did not say you are promoting new age islam. I am sorry if I implied such.
When I say a wrong done to a community i don't necessarily mean the entire community,
This is the reason I do not agree with wrong explanations and generalization such as ?crime against society?.
If some one injures me the punishment is I get to injure that person in a similar way. Wounds equal for wounds equal or I can choose to forgive. The injury is crime against me, the individual, crime against the person and not society. I do not like to walk in to territory not sanctioned by the Quraan.
The issue of 4 witnesses makes it public automatically. You cannot privately have sex and have 4 people watch at the same time.
People commit offences and crimes thinking they are doing it in private without anyone seeing but there can be so many instances people can become witnesses to a crime intentionally or unintentionally. Fahisha is not about public sex. Any kind of unlawful sex is fahisha. But to carry out the punishment in case of unmarried people committing fahisha of confining to their houses you got to produce 4 witnesses.
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Peace All,
I just have a few questions for those who consider alcohol to be haram.
Have you ever had an operation?
When you had this operation, were you given anasthetic?
That is all, thank you.
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I also have a question
During an operation, does one need to have a clear mind?
Peace,
What does that have to do with it????
Clearly one schooner of beer, glass of wine will not cloud your mind. So doesn't that fall into the same category?
If indeed intoxicants are haram/banned, then they should not be used in ANY case, no matter what the circumstances (unless stated otherwise by the Quran).
