What is deen according to your understanding? Can we implement deen?
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Salaaman Khyaletanzim,
@mmkhan
My dear friend my question is very clear but i dont know how you can say that there is no force in this sentence. what is the meaning of ikraha in this sentence according to your understanding?according to my understanding the word ikraaha means the following
Arabic - English
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forcing , compulsion , conquering , constraint , coercion , impelling , force , violenceRegards.
No, "Ikraha" does not mean Force. Instead of looking at dictionaries, try to look at the usage of the same word in AlQuraan. InshaAllah, you will reach to the correct meaning.
If you understand urdu, it is the same word we use in urdu as Karahiyat, Makrooh, etc... Ikraha is a derivative of Karaha means something you don't like.
Regards,
mmKhan -
That doesn't fit the context - which is followed by "Truth stands out clear from Error", and I don't see how looking at modern Urdu can be more reliable than Arabic when translating the Quran. What other usage in the Quran are you looking at?
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salaam
please ponder on the possibility that 'deen' simply means 'responsibility; obligation; accountability; etc.'
so, we'll get phrases like 'lakum deenukum wali yadeen' to mean 'for you your responsibilities/obligations, for me my responsibilities/obligations', and 'yawmiddeen' means 'day/time of accountability'.
just ponder without prejudice. insha-Allah God will guide the sincere students.
peace!
jb
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friend you told me that it does not mean force but it means dislike. so if I apply as liquiddharma has mentioned it will be like this "no disliking in deen. truth stands out clear from error." does it makes any sense to you? if i am not correct in my understanding then please translate it in English and Urdu for me please.
Kindly explain to me that if i don't look at the dictionaries then where should I look. I have already pasted the meanings of "ikraha". Regarding translations they all have translated similarly. kindly tell me how and on which ayahs i should look. Please do translate 419, 2433
As far as "karha" is concerned then it has the same meaning as you tell.
Arabic - English
alienate from , make hateful to , make disinclined to , make someone hate something , make averse to
loathe , be disinclined to , mislike , abhor , abominate , hate , feel disgust for , hate intensely , have an aversion to or for , feel distaste for , detest
distaste , disfavor , disrelish , dislike , disgust , repugnance , detestation , odium , hate , antipathy , abhorrence , abomination , hatred
revulsion , hate , repugnance , odium , abomination , abhorrence , jaundice , animosity , antipathy , hatred , detestation , disfavor , enmity , disrelish , feud , grudge , antagonism
@ al araf
Please translate according to your meanings the following verses. 788, 1237, 387.
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Salaaman Khyaletanzim,
No, "Ikraha" does not mean Force. Instead of looking at dictionaries, try to look at the usage of the same word in AlQuraan. InshaAllah, you will reach to the correct meaning.
If you understand urdu, it is the same word we use in urdu as Karahiyat, Makrooh, etc... Ikraha is a derivative of Karaha means something you don't like.
Regards,
mmKhanDear mmkhan this arabic not urdu
La Ikrah fil din means no Compulsion in Religionpeace
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Salaaman brother Khyaletanzim,
friend you told me that it does not mean force but it means dislike. so if I apply as liquiddharma has mentioned it will be like this "no disliking in deen. truth stands out clear from error." does it makes any sense to you? if i am not correct in my understanding then please translate it in English and Urdu for me please.
"No disliking in deen. Truth stands out clear from error". Why not?
It simply says, there is nothing to dislike in deen. Everything is good for you. Even if you don't like anything in deen, it might be better for you, but you are not understanding it. I hope you got my point. inshaAllah.
Urdu Deen main karahiyat nahin hai. Deen main kuch bhi aisa nahin hai jis se karahiyat ho.
Note If anything don't fit with our current understand does not mean that it is wrong.
Kindly explain to me that if i don't look at the dictionaries then where should I look.
I am not saying you should not look at or refer to dictionaries. But I wanted to say that the meaning in dictionaries may differ from the meaning in AlQuraan. Because, I beleive in all the complex words used in AlQuraan has been defined by AlQuraan itself. I don't know how far you believe in it. But this is what I understand and believe, I might be wrong... and hope Allah will surely correct me if I am wrong.
I have already pasted the meanings of "ikraha".
Yes, you can see what Ikraha mean from what you have quoted. And 'ikraha' is a derivative of 'karaha', so how meaning will change?
Regarding translations they all have translated similarly. kindly tell me how and on which ayahs i should look. Please do translate 419, 2433
419 O YOU who have attained to faith! It is not lawful for you to become heirs to women against their will; and neither shall you keep them under constraint with a view to taking away anything of what you may have given them, unless it be that they have become guilty, in an obvious man?ner, of immoral conduct. And consort with your wives in a goodly manner; for if you dislike them, it may well be that you dislike something which God might yet make a source of abundant good.
Urdu ....Tumhare liye ye halaal nahin hai ke tum aurtaun ke waris ban jao unki karahiyat par.
(419)
For 2433 I have to steady. I am not able to understand the usage of "Tukrihoo" in this verse. May Allah open my heart to understand it clearly and correctly.
Please translate according to your meanings the following verses. 788, 1237, 387.
788 The chieftains of his people, who were scornful, said Surely we will drive thee out, O Shueyb, and those who believe with thee, from our township, unless ye return to our religion. He said Even though we dislike it?
(78
Urdu Kaha sardaraun ne (ya mullaaon ne) jo takabbur karte thae uski qaum se, albatta hum nikaal dainge tujhko aye Shoeb (AS) aur unko jo eiman laye tere saath, hamaari basti mainse. Ya palat aao tum sab hamaare tariqaun par. Kaha (Shoeb AS ne) kya agar huwe hum karaahiyat karte (tab bhi)? 788
I tried to translate it literally. Allah know best.
I don't find anything in relation with 'karaha' in 1237 and 387. Please check.
May Allah open our hearts to understand His message clearly and correctly. pr
Regards,
mmKhan -
Salaaman Afridi,
Dear mmkhan this arabic not urdu
La Ikrah fil din means no Compulsion in ReligionI know brother, but I think you don't know urdu because most of the words used in AlQuraan got the same meaning in Urdu. We use those words in Urdu.
OK, if 'karaha' mean 'Compulsion' to you. Please translate 1738 for me.
Regards,
mmKhan -
Dear mmkhan,
Thanks for the complete answer. You said
It simply says, there is nothing to dislike in deen. Everything is good for you. Even if you don't like anything in deen, it might be better for you, but you are not understanding it. I hope you got my point.The way you posted it do make sense but the problem is Ikarah and karha does not seem to be written in same way and and this word Ikraha is used only twice in Quran with Alaf and at both places force seems clearer in understanding as per my understanding because the sentences seems to be decisive and not informative.
I think making them same may cause problem in understanding because as you say it is, then it seems to me that it contradicts at many stages when it comes to disbelievers. General statement of this kind by God does not fit into my understanding because of the following reasons. If there is nothing to dislike in system then why disbelievers hate or refuse to accept and upon that the next sentence In that aya also seems to have no use with your understanding. It is not said that there is nothing to dislike in deen for believers but it seem to me as a general and decisive statement addressing all.
1237 and 387 was not for you but for brother Al Araf to translate. Kindly shed light on your understanding of the word millat
Regards.
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Dear mmkhan,
Logically we have to understand how the TRUTH is made clear from Error, in the Quran it is done by wide range of very strong intellectual and historical arguments in order to direct humans towards the Deen without force. These arguments are required because by default humans will not be going towards the Deen because it is not all like able so to say " there is nothing to dislike in Deen " is clearly incorrect!!! Further, if all is like able then why should there be humans who dislike it and become kafirs?
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Salaaman brother Khyaletanzim,
If there is nothing to dislike in system then why disbelievers hate or refuse to accept
They do so because they don't realize the Truth. Like 'Lahmal Khinzeer' is Haraam in System, but they don't realize it why it has been made unlawful.
Millat As per my understanding, it means "Ways or practices" or "Tariqa" in urdu.
May Allah open our hearts to understand the Truth clearly and correctly pr
Regards,
mmKhan -
But if there were compulsion in deen, then there most clearly would be something to dislike about it, and truth would not stand out from error on its own. peace
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Dear mmkhan,
I think this time you have not read my post attention and your answer is not satisfying. What is the difference between system(nizam) and ways (tariqa)?
Please clarify why taraiqa when deen is there?
Regards.