-=[ Salaat Al Wusta is Salaat al Juma ]=-
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Peace be upon you Anthony Wallace,
Do you not realize that your physical body ALREADY prostrates to GOD? Doesnt each cell do exactly what God commands it to do? Don't your cells already obey God? Doesnt your hair grow, skin repair itself from cuts, heart beat? So how does putting this earthly vehicle that already follows the will of God into a certain POSITION make it prostrate any more than it already does?
Saying one who is mentally sane prostrates physically is just an emotioanly charged statement, pleas give the logic of why one would do so, otherwise it s fine to agree to disagree, but lets always strive to further explain positions logically or else we are wasting our time here.
Salaam G W,
It has been stressed in the Qur'an that when they are asked to prostrate their necks get stiff and they do not prostrate so no, not every cell in the body is prostrating. If you say that the mere functions of the body means it's prostrating then this means that a person whose cells suffer from malfunctions his cells refuse to prostrate???
Every good act depends on our intention to perform it so, if for instance, we bend down to pick something up that is not the same as bowing before God.Or is it that you are crossing a busy intersection and you hear the quran recited from someone cars radio, do you stop and prostrate in oncoming traffic?
Huuh
There is a verse that says when the quran is recited, those who believe PROSTRATE. Period, there is no if, ands, or buts about it.
And by this you mean that one should lie flat on the foor, according to this verse, or do your really read the answers given by those who have been trying to explain to you what prostration is ????
DOesnt it make more sense that EVERYTIME you hear the recitation of quran, that your behavior is changed due to the reminder?
And what are you trying to say that by prostrating ones behaviour is not changed, or that those who prostrate pay no heed to the message ???
If you are seriously interested in exchanging views than make an effort to read what others say and understand by prostration.We have all been strongly influenced by physical prostration and it is hard for us to , not give it up, but see that it is not really what is being taught to us by God. Like I said, if it helps you to do right, by all means, continue, but realize that the physical prostration is only useful if it helps you prostrate mentally.
You may have been deceived by bearded actors chanting prostrating and blowing themselves up. I have the book of guidance which teaches me very clearly how to recognise hypocrites and non believers, I am not so gullible as to get influenced by any physical act or even eloquence.
peace
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Peace be upon you MMKhan,
You stated, "in front of Allah" several times. Is "Allah" some object out there in space? Is that your idea of God?
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Salaaman brother GW,
I am sure that you understand what I meant by "in front of Allah" but tempt
Please brother we are not here to check for mistakes from each other brickwall .. atleast not me D . We are here to discuss in Ahsan ways and try to understand things. Am I right?
Praise be to Allah and ask help from Him. We all are trying to find the best way towards Allah. We are NOT here to WIN. I hope you understand.
Believe me, my intention is not to hurt you or make you wrong but I wanted to call all who keep good understand and also those who keep good knowledge to discuss and find the correct path. There is no problem if anyone does not agree with other. Allah will clarify all we have disagreed with in the Day of Judgement. inshaAllah.
May Allah guide us all towards the correct path.
Regards,
mmKhan -
Will they not prostrate to the Almighty? do not obey them, prostrate phycically and mentally and come near.
Truly, those who prostrate are indeed drawing near to their Lord. You might not be able to see it, but they are seeking a blessing from their Lord.
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Peace be upon you,
It has been stressed in the Qur'an that when they are asked to prostrate their necks get stiff and they do not prostrate so no, not every cell in the body is prostrating.
Do you really think it is not possible for someone with a stiff neck to prostrate? Are we relying on any validation from life or are we just swallowing slogans indescriminately?
If you say that the mere functions of the body means it's prostrating then this means that a person whose cells suffer from malfunctions his cells refuse to prostrate???
Yes, a cancer does not prostrate and look at the hell not prostrating brings. Just like a terrorist who physically prostrates all day and night then goes out and kills little children because "the Quran stresses my unverified position"Every good act depends on our intention to perform it so, if for instance, we bend down to pick something up that is not the same as bowing before God.
So you are saying that the mere physical act means nothing, it is the MIND that makes the difference. Correct? Because they are the same motion but different , right?
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Or is it that you are crossing a busy intersection and you hear the quran recited from someone cars radio, do you stop and prostrate in oncoming traffic?Huuh
I dont understand your answer, my question is very clear, please read it again and let me know what your decision would be.
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There is a verse that says when the quran is recited, those who believe PROSTRATE. Period, there is no if, ands, or buts about it.And by this you mean that one should lie flat on the foor, according to this verse, or do your really read the answers given by those who have been trying to explain to you what prostration is ?
No, I dont mean that, but your understanding of prostration MUST mean that if it is true. My position would be that your thinking would correct itself and you would choose right over wrong with help from the reminder.
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DOesnt it make more sense that EVERYTIME you hear the recitation of quran, that your behavior is changed due to the reminder?And what are you trying to say that by prostrating ones behaviour is not changed, or that those who prostrate pay no heed to the message
The whole world PROVES that the mere act of getting on the ground does nothing to change behavior. You would have to be blind not to see this fact. There are people in my neighborhood who are the worst of criminals who wont miss a friday "jumah" and has scars on thier foreheads thinking it is holy as they spend the night drinking cold syrup and pills to get high and sell drugs and rob people. The islamic fundalists who bomb people surely prostrate physically, as do many christians and other religions. That is clear proof, please provide the same type of exampes for your position.
If you are seriously interested in exchanging views than make an effort to read what others say and understand by prostration.
I am very serious, and I understand your position backwards and fowards, I have been on Free Minds since it was started and there is nothing you have said that I have not either said myself before or heard before.
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We have all been strongly influenced by physical prostration and it is hard for us to , not give it up, but see that it is not really what is being taught to us by God. Like I said, if it helps you to do right, by all means, continue, but realize that the physical prostration is only useful if it helps you prostrate mentally.You may have been deceived by bearded actors chanting prostrating and blowing themselves up. I have the book of guidance which teaches me very clearly how to recognise hypocrites and non believers, I am not so gullible as to get influenced by any physical act or even eloquence.
Why is the conversation being focused on my being "fooled" by bearded actors rather than you providing verification/logic/examples to support your position?
The point was that , bearded actors or not, they physically prostrate. All that is required to physically prostrate is a body, thats it. But you are trying to say that there is a difference between how you physically prostrate, and how THEY do it, perhaps it is the MENTAL ASPECT, which is the only real part, but you avoid saying this directly.
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Peace be upon you MKhan,
I am sure that you understand what I meant by "in front of Allah" but
Yes, you mean that God is an object "out there" that you must bow down in front of. Correct?
Please brother we are not here to check for mistakes from each other .. atleast not me . We are here to discuss in Ahsan ways and try to understand things. Am I right?
And that is what we are doing...the debate is part of the means of testing your theories...the scientist must put the theory to the test.
Praise be to Allah and ask help from Him. We all are trying to find the best way towards Allah. We are NOT here to WIN. I hope you understand.
I am commited to winning...and part of the process is to debate your theories to see if they stand firm like a deeply rooted tree, or if they were built on sandy cliffs.
Believe me, my intention is not to hurt you or make you wrong but I wanted to call all who keep good understand and also those who keep good knowledge to discuss and find the correct path. There is no problem if anyone does not agree with other. Allah will clarify all we have disagreed with in the Day of Judgement. inshaAllah.
And you have not hurt me and I am not out to hurt you...my nature is peace(slm)...but hajja(debate) is part of this system, otherwise everybody confuses everyone else. This is not for play or amusement, this is our life we are dealing with and it is hard enough to follow the truth once it is known, so we cant relax on getting to the truth. This is a jihad(struggle)...not the same are those who sit at home.
May Allah guide us all towards the correct path.
Indeed, may the God increase us in Knowledge(that which can be verified)
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Peace be upon you AW,
Will they not prostrate to the Almighty? do not obey them, prostrate phycically and mentally and come near.
Is that what the verse says? Physically and mentally huh?
Truly, those who prostrate are indeed drawing near to their Lord. You might not be able to see it, but they are seeking a blessing from their Lord.
You might not be able to see them PHYSICALLY prostrate? Or are you AGAIN being shown that the prostration is not physical, but WITHIN?
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Peace be upon you,
I am very serious, and I understand your position backwards and fowards, I have been on Free Minds since it was started and there is nothing you have said that I have not either said myself before or heard before.Salaam
No you do not understand my position nor would I like to understand your standpoint. Good for you, that you have been on free-minds since it started. As for me I have been following the book of guidance long before free-minds started. This is not a place which focuses on establishing the truth but a place where many are mislead. For that reason it is important that those who believe that prophet Mohamed did establish our deen and perfected it with the guidance of God stand up against the lies spread. Know that the core of that system is intact as confirmed by many verses of the Quran. Shaitan and hypocites have shrouded it by hadiths and cultural misinterpretations.
And the mosques were established to attract locals who could gather in order to contemplate and act as local assemblies and the month of fasting is the time to attain salvation and learn self control and contribute in saving for the rest of humanity, and hajj is a time of assembly from all corner for even greater good. I can go on and on and on, but I have no desire to teach you or anyone who have their minds set on inventing a religion, other than our deen on this site.Why is the conversation being focused on my being "fooled" by bearded actors rather than you providing verification/logic/examples to support your position?
The point was that , bearded actors or not, they physically prostrate. All that is required to physically prostrate is a body, thats it. But you are trying to say that there is a difference between how you physically prostrate, and how THEY do it, perhaps it is the MENTAL ASPECT, which is the only real part, but you avoid saying this directly.Because you are focusing too much on trying to force your point of view on others. If you do not like to prostrate its your choice but dont try and persuade others to follow your aberrations.
The point it that they do not prostrate at all, if you see them as respresenting some sort of belivers than its your problems.I dont understand your answer, my question is very clear, please read it again and let me know what your decision would be.
Maybe then I should draw your attention to those who call themselves agnostics and they have the best of manner and ethics and have better understanding of morality than many on free minds who pretend to follow the Quran alone but follow only their whims.
4014 Therefore call upon Allah, being sincere to Him in obedience/ State of abasement and submissiveness, though the unbelievers are averse
peace
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Peace Farida,
What God Within is saying is that ANYONE can prostrate physically. As you said, bending down to pick up a dropped object is not the same as bending down "before god." The difference obviously is your mental state. That's the difference between you and those "bearded actors."
The point is, what's important is the mental state, and the physical prostration is not important at all because it is meaningless. If prostration helps you then you can do it, but there is no evidence that physical prostration means anything. -
Peace be upon you AW,
Is that what the verse says? Physically and mentally huh?
You might not be able to see them PHYSICALLY prostrate? Or are you AGAIN being shown that the prostration is not physical, but WITHIN?
And may peace be upon you,
Define prostrate. If you are certain.
And we believe in all of it. We believe in what was sent to you and in what was sent to us, and our God and your God is the same, and to Him we submit.
And yes, you cannot recognize them by their looks. But you can recognize them by their speech.
And from the night you shall prostrate. ( what does that mean? If you know? )
Prostrate Voluntary or by froce...
And note that you are the one who is making God an object. We never " claimed" that He was an object...But He is standing over every soul for what it has earned, and He is aware of all things...And He is watching what you all do...
peace
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Peace be upon you Farida,
I wish we could have continues to logically debate the issue, but once it goes to attacks I realize that the other has no more argument to stand on, so its best to say "Peace" and maybe we can pick it up again another time.
Just realize that a forum is a place to work out the truth and that is only done through logical debate....those who follow truth need not worry because the truth proves itself.
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Peace be upon you Lobster,
What God Within is saying is that ANYONE can prostrate physically. As you said, bending down to pick up a dropped object is not the same as bending down "before god." The difference obviously is your mental state. That's the difference between you and those "bearded actors."
The point is, what's important is the mental state, and the physical prostration is not important at all because it is meaningless. If prostration helps you then you can do it, but there is no evidence that physical prostration means anything.Yes its very simple and clear, Farida gives her(?) own answer but cant see it.
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Peace be upon you AW,
Define prostrate
Prostrate- stretched out with face on the ground in adoration or submission ; also lying flat
That is the definition and no one is debating that, but what you must understand is that the God does not shy from using similitudes/metaphors. This entire message is filled with metaphors. For example all the discussion of being at war, how useful is war discussion to you in your life? Do you really need battle information? Or is it the inner struggle of the Divine in you vs. the animal(emotional nature) within you?
When we are told to prostrate to God....it is not about getting on the ground to bend down in front of God, because as you agreed, God is not an object, so logically, one cannot physically prostrate to God. And as Farida has pointed out, the act of getting down is useless WITHOUT the mental
"prostration", and that is the obediance to God's will, that is to CHOOSE right over wrong. -
People say that prostration is useless... But dont it say in quran that the prostration increases ones humility?
peace
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People say that prostration is useless... But dont it say in quran that the prostration increases ones humility?
peace
Me dont know the exact passage, and the passage may have been talking about something else, so I dont know.... )
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Peace be upon you AW,
I dont know the passage either but lets say it does say that, its still referring to mental prostration....
Do shoe salesmen appear more humble to you? They bend down a lot for thier jobs. There are many people right here in my neighborhood who prostrate way more than me, but humility is certanly not thier attribute. And we can go on and on with the same examples that we have gone over before. The proof is clear and out and the open for all to witness. So even go so far as to make scars on thier foreheads, does humility follow that from your observations?
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Peace all,
This is Jumal according to Quran.
When/were do we assemble for salat?
O you who believe, werever/whenever the prayers are called to on the holy day Friday, then run quickly towards Gods rememberance, and leave the doing buisness. That is best for you, if you are able. So, whenever the prayers are finished, then disperse in the land; and desire from Gods blessing. And mention God much, you might be succesful.
What time is the cogregational salat on Friday?
11114 And keep the salat on the sides of the day. On parts touching upon the night, not far from the night. Thus, the righteousness cancels the sins. This is a reminder to the praising.
1778 Keep the salat on the verge of sunset untill the nights blakness; and the dawn Quran. The dawn quran has been made official.
peace
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Peace be upon you,
This is Jumal according to Quran.
When/were do we assemble for salat?
Who says we have to assemble? The verse says that when it is time for salaat and you are assembeled, you must still maintain the salaat. The verse does not say you must assemble. Realize that there are people who know the truth and as long as you are kept in his corruption of God's message, they can control you. Again, there is no command to assemble, it is only warning you that when you are by yourself it is easy to salaat, but when you are in a group like at work or with friends at a party, etc....you find more reasons to put it off, but dont do that.
O you who believe, werever/whenever the prayers are called to on the holy day Friday, then run quickly towards Gods rememberance, and leave the doing buisness. That is best for you, if you are able. So, whenever the prayers are finished, then disperse in the land; and desire from Gods blessing. And mention God much, you might be succesful.
What time is the cogregational salat on Friday?
Jumah does not indicate a day of the week, it means "assembly"....so again, God is not saying that there is a meeting on fridays, God is saying even when assembled(jumah), you must stop and maintain salaat, wether by yourself or on a group, doesnt matter.
11114 And keep the salat on the sides of the day. On parts touching upon the night, not far from the night. Thus, the righteousness cancels the sins. This is a reminder to the praising.
1778 Keep the salat on the verge of sunset untill the nights blakness; and the dawn Quran. The dawn quran has been made official.
Salaat times are dawn and dusk, when day merges night and night merges day.