why do we have to believe?

farida

Salaams
ah,I think this is a subtle differance,God has total power and pulls all the strings,except when it comes to us,we have free will to choose a differant path,so that by definition means God is not all powerful?
.

Salaam Alan,

I am trying to understand your point and maybe I'm not addressing it as you expect. I understand that God has absolute power over all of us but has left us to deal with worldy affairs with the warning that your life and your death is in the hands of God and all that is supposed to happen to you was alredy decreed but its you who have to make up your mind whether or not to believe in GOd's power.
As for 'Be' that is a life time for us, a revolutionay change could take many many years, whereas it was just "be" from God So the ' present be' could be the changes in world powers, the beginning of the end of some super power, as all super powers ended so would this one end. God allowed many nations to become great powers and then gave them rope to deal with their power and as long as those powerful nations had some good to offer they prospered but when they fell from grace He tightened their rope and, no matter how many defences they had built they will vanish.
478 Wherever you are, death will catch up with you, even if you live in formidable castles. When something good happens to them, they say, "This is from GOD," and when something bad afflicts them, they blame you. Say, "Everything comes from GOD." Why do these people misunderstand almost everything

Further,this view of "be" suggests that there is nothing random in existence that all our suffering comes from God

To address this point I think we must discuss in detail what is meant by suffering and then, in context of the verse below, let's look at its origin.
479 Anything good that happens to you is from GOD, and anything bad that happens to you is from you. We have sent you as a messenger to the people, and GOD suffices as witness

and that science has it all wrong with regards to,for eg,evolution

The world was made in six days, not days like ours where the sun rises and sets, but stages, which could mean six stages of evolution. If you read the details of the six days and then read how the world evolved you would be surprised to see how science is confirming what God tells us in the Qur'an.

peace

alan

"The world was made in six days, not days like ours where the sun rises and sets, but stages, which could mean six stages of evolution. If you read the details of the six days and then read how the world evolved you would be surprised to see how science is confirming what God tells us in the Qur'an."

I hope address the other points later,but this jumped out at me -
Why use the term x6 days,why not 4 or 9,if the time span is meaningless,this suggests you are wrong in your interpritation,it is 6 for a reason and you dont know what that is.You have no idea what the six stages are,so how can you try to give it scientific authenticity?
sun

AlFajr

5722 No misfortune can happen on Earth, or in yourselves, except it is decreed in a record, before We bring it about. This is easy for God to do.
5723 In order that you do not despair over anything that has passed you by, nor be happy of anything He has bestowed upon you. God does not like those who are boastful, proud.

817 It was not you who killed them, but it was God who killed them. And it was not you who launched when you did, but it was God who launched. And so that the believers would be tested well by Him. God is Hearer, Knowledgeable.
818 That, and God weakens the plots of the rejecters.
819 If you sought conquest, then conquest has come to you, but if you cease, then it is better for you. And if you return again, then We will also return, and your group will avail you nothing even if it is many. God is with the believers.

5529 Those in the heavens and Earth ask Him, everyday He is in some matter.

farida

I hope address the other points later,but this jumped out at me -
Why use the term x6 days,why not 4 or 9,if the time span is meaningless,this suggests you are wrong in your interpritation,it is 6 for a reason and you dont know what that is.You have no idea what the six stages are,so how can you try to give it scientific authenticity?
sun

Why not 4 or 9 is not the question I would ask I know that six stages are clearly divided and explained. I dont have the surs in front of me to discuss at the moment but recently I read a very good analysis available on internet; do read it and let me know how you find this. I am not that knowledgeable so I thought this is good research you may not find it that great
What is the Origin of Man?
The Answers of Science and the Holy Scriptures
Dr Maurice Bucaille

peace

L_Hu

God is not responsible for are mistakes. Everybody is to lazy to define God be and belief

anthonywallace

Peace Farida and all....

Yes,because He,s not said "be" for a long time,what was the last example of something created by this"be"?
(sorry I didnt realise comlete meant complete)

see below

Peace Alen,
What do you mean by you want an example of "be"? Everything that happens is a result of God's decisions.

All matters return to God. And when He decrees a matter He says " be" to it and it is

[
5529 Those in the heavens and Earth ask Him, everyday He is in some matter.

First define what you mean by "GOD" then define what you mean by "UNBELIEF" and finally define what you mean by "BELIEF". In other words first define what "GOD" is then define what "UNBELIEF" is and finally define what "BELIEF" is. With that you can have a good discussion.

Also contray to popular belief the Quran never defines "GOD". There is no genuine creed concerning "GOD" in the Quran. No teaching. No explantion. The only thing that can be gleaned from the Quran is that 1 this so called "GOD" is the author of what you are reading (the Quran), 2 he is manifested thourgh the "signs" around you, 3 and he constanly interacts with humanity. This is not enough for a definition. No genine creed or belief can be forged from this except 1 and 3. Basicly the Quran has left it for us to define what and who God is. In fact the Quran's injunction to see the "signs" around you is a injunction to understand God and define God by understanding the universe. The Quran is a book of God but there is a supreme book which is for the wise to use. The earth, sun, moon, night, day all can help us understand and define God. Also philosophy has revaled much. If this disscusion is to be fruitful we must first define the object of belief "GOD". Also define BELIEF and UNBELIEF. Do not use GOD's attributes because then what the hack is meant by "merciful" or "just" or "judge". So the Quran's attributes for this so called "GOD" are really meaningless. They add to the confusion.

God is the light of the heavens and the earth. The Lord of you and your fathers, if you are aware. The believers are those who believe in the unseen, and they keep the salat and they spend from what God has provided them. These are the believers. When God is mentioned their hearts reverence.

Be aware of God. Nothing is left out of the Quran. The quran clearly tells us what God is, if you are aware.

And if they are told " Prostrate to the Almighty." They say " And what is the Almighty?" Do you order us to prostrate to what you command" And it only increases their aversion.

And none dispute about God except those who have no knowledge, nor an enlightning scripture.

alan

Let us look at the example of a sufferer of paranoid schizophrenia,he is in constant fear afraid for his safety,unbearabel anxiety,perhaps hearing voices.His life is unbearable,his mind/brain isnt functioning correctly causing his whole perception to be filled with terrors.Did God say be and he was full of fear,or is it simply that the brain is ill,malfunctioning,surely not by design,but like a machine,simply faulty.
The child regularly abused,did God say be and she suffered,unbearable pain,or is it the case of simply being the victim of a depraived psychopath.
How many example of lives lead in fear and misery do you need to see and God is responsible for everything?He said "be" and it IS.
Maybe this understanding is wrong,or God doesnt exist.

farida

Let us look at the example of a sufferer of paranoid schizophrenia,he is in constant fear afraid for his safety,unbearabel anxiety,perhaps hearing voices.His life is unbearable,his mind/brain isnt functioning correctly causing his whole perception to be filled with terrors.Did God say be and he was full of fear,or is it simply that the brain is ill,malfunctioning,surely not by design,but like a machine,simply faulty.
The child regularly abused,did God say be and she suffered,unbearable pain,or is it the case of simply being the victim of a depraived psychopath.
How many example of lives lead in fear and misery do you need to see and God is responsible for everything?He said "be" and it IS.
Maybe this understanding is wrong,or God doesnt exist.

Salaam Alan,

There are many born with disability and have no life at all and one wonders what was their fault, there are others who have all in this life for this world, why there is imbalance in this world. If you look carefully more people are unhappy in this day and age..Why? Look around you, world is full of amusing things new technology yet you would find young man coming out with guns and killing mercilessly do you blame society for it or you expect that God should hold each and every one?s finger and guide them???
You talk of The child regularly abused, humans were made in the best of mould yet they sink to the lowest of the lowest despite having all sorts of opportunities available to them. So the question you should ask is do I want to live an independent life and make efforts to manage and shape society or blame God for everything and expect that God should send his messenger every week to guide us.
There are some people who may have lots of disadvantages in this world yet you would see them full of love for God whereas other who complain are often loaded and are most ungrateful,,
Don?t get p...ed off with those who love God try and find out why and no one can help you with this search you have to find out on your own, if you still think world is better off without God than build your army and see if you can take God away from people.
peace

anthonywallace

Let us look at the example of a sufferer of paranoid schizophrenia,he is in constant fear afraid for his safety,unbearabel anxiety,perhaps hearing voices.His life is unbearable,his mind/brain isnt functioning correctly causing his whole perception to be filled with terrors.Did God say be and he was full of fear,or is it simply that the brain is ill,malfunctioning,surely not by design,but like a machine,simply faulty.
The child regularly abused,did God say be and she suffered,unbearable pain,or is it the case of simply being the victim of a depraived psychopath.
How many example of lives lead in fear and misery do you need to see and God is responsible for everything?He said "be" and it IS.
Maybe this understanding is wrong,or God doesnt exist.

what is your point? Or what is you tryin to proove? Or do you just want somethin to dispute about?

And no, you are responsible for yourself...

L_Hu

anthonywallace thanks for your answer. But it was not a answer

anthonywallace

2623 Pharaoh said ?And what is the Lord of the worlds??
2624 He said ?The Lord of the heavens and the Earth and all that is between them, if you are aware.? 2625 He said to those around him ?Do you hear that??
2626 He said ?Your Lord and the Lord of your forefathers!? 2627 He said ?This messenger of yours who has been sent to you is mad!?
2628 He said ?The Lord of the east and the west, and what is between them, if you understand.?

anthonywallace thanks for your answer. But it was not a answer

I gave you all the answers.... so believe and dont dispute else you will fail.

God is not responsible for are mistakes. Everybody is to lazy to define God be and belief

Yes, I have been alittle lazy... ;D I have defined God already to you and also " be" and alittle belief to....

alan

Sorry to everyone who thinks Iam "p d" off with beleivers in God,iam not,iam trying to counter the arguements but you answer one and the ground shifts again,no direct reply.
God said "be" what is it he said "be",for there are obvious appaling creations,ie in the way certain creations cause so much suffering.Like the example of the schizophrenic,his creation/mind is faulty,did God do this?straight question

alan

Patience is a virtue

anthonywallace

Like the example of the schizophrenic,his creation/mind is faulty,did God do this?straight question

Yes, He creates what He pleases. Who else do you think did it?

anthonywallace

And there is no blame on the sick, or the cripple, or the blind. And whoever obeys God and His messenger will be amonge those whom God has blessed and of the upright.

And every soul is for what it earns. No soul will be wronged in the least. So whoever is guided is only being guided for himself, and whoever is misguided I am not a cartaker over you.

peace

alan

Yes, He creates what He pleases. Who else do you think did it?

To be clear,you are saying God created a faulty brain?

anthonywallace

To be clear,you are saying God created a faulty brain?

If a person was born wit a abnormal/fauly brain, then yes, i am saying God created a faulty brain. Who else did? Straight question.

alan

If a person was born wit a abnormal/fauly brain, then yes, i am saying God created a faulty brain. Who else did? Straight question.

In answer to your straight Q,nobody did,it is a fault in the evolutionary developement of the biological structure.

L_Hu

Anthonywallace all you offer are statments that do not really defne the concept. They make it more confusing.

anthonywallace

In answer to your straight Q,nobody did,it is a fault in the evolutionary developement of the biological structure.

Is God not aware of what is in the wombs?

Anthonywallace all you offer are statments that do not really defne the concept. They make it more confusing.

And how do you know that when I do define the concept that it still wont be confusing to some? There is no argument here. Why? Because what kind of question is "why do we have to believe?" Il tell you, because whoever dont believe then they deserve the retribution...How can one not believe is the question.

These kind of questions is what makes things more confusing. And I have given you your answers to what is God, be, and to believe... But like I say, how do u know that when it is defined that the people still not go be confused...

Now if you have some proofs then bring it forth... I dont know if you all are trying to learn something or if youall just tryin to cause confusion or tryin to make things crooked or teach somethin or what...

And note that either the words of God go guide you or they are going to increase in your confusion or doubts...ect./....