why do we have to believe?
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this is sort of linked to my what does God get out of it question...
Why is "shirk" the unforgiveable sin while anything else can be forgiven? It is not harming anyone else?
And why do we have to believe? God always talks about almumineen/muslimeen/ahl alkitab as those who will know no fear while the mushrikeen/kuffar are the ones who will be hell-bound - if you are an atheist but a good person where does that leave you?thanks all!
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this is sort of linked to my what does God get out of it question...
Why is "shirk" the unforgiveable sin while anything else can be forgiven? It is not harming anyone else?
And why do we have to believe? God always talks about almumineen/muslimeen/ahl alkitab as those who will know no fear while the mushrikeen/kuffar are the ones who will be hell-bound - if you are an atheist but a good person where does that leave you?thanks all!
Do not ask about things that if revealed to you will harm you. Your god is One God. And those names you mention beside Him cannot help nor harm you.
When God says to a thing " Be". then it is. Your Lord said do not make with god another God, or u will find yourself discraced, abandoned. And you will be cast into Hell, blamworthy and regretting.
And the word of your Lord came true " That I will fill Hell with the Jinn and the people all together." And if He wished He could have made you all one nation. But even if He did they would continue to disagree. Except those who He has mercy on.
How could you not believe is the question. Only a fool would say their is no God. These people are evil and never do right. And they will have a painful torture.
And God Forgives whoever He pleases, and He punishes whoever He pleases. And to God is the Highest example, and to the rejecters is the lowest.
You shall be thankful to God, and whoever is thankful is only being thankful for His own good, and for whoever rejects. Then God is the Rich, the Praiseworthy.
And whoever of them who believes in God and the last day and does good, they will have their reward with their Lord, with no fear over them nor will they grieve.
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In Christianity blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is the only unforgiveable sin.
How does shirk compare with blasphemy against the Holy Spirit?
The unforgivable sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is an act of resistance which belittles the Holy Spirit so grievously that he withdraws for ever with his convicting power so that we are never able to repent and be forgiven.
What about those that were polytheists and then become believers in the one true GOD? Is their shirk still unforgiven?
And God Forgives whoever He pleases, and He punishes whoever He pleases. So why repent?
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In Christianity blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is the only unforgiveable sin.
How does shirk compare with blasphemy against the Holy Spirit?
The unforgivable sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is an act of resistance which belittles the Holy Spirit so grievously that he withdraws for ever with his convicting power so that we are never able to repent and be forgiven.
What about those that were polytheists and then become believers in the one true GOD? Is their shirk still unforgiven?
And God Forgives whoever He pleases, and He punishes whoever He pleases. So why repent?
You repent so that God will forgive you. repentance is only for those who commit sin out of ignorance and repent soon after. These will be forgiven. There will be no repentance from mone who continues to reject. Nor will they be allowed to repent of the day of ressurection.
God made firm the hearts of those who saud " We will not call besides God any god. If we have done so then it was in error.".......
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And another thing is you dont have to believe if you dont want to... >D But u will incur the wrath if you dont, so its your choice, your destiny, and your life. It none can believe except by Gods leave. He guides whom He wills. And misguides whom He wills.
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And there will be no repentance for the one who waits untill death comes to him then he says " I repent now."
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And another thing is you dont have to believe if you dont want to... >D But u will incur the wrath if you dont, so its your choice, your destiny, and your life. It none can believe except by Gods leave. He guides whom He wills. And misguides whom He wills.
Thats my point - why is it that shirk is such a big "sin" which will "incur the wrath" since its not harming anyone - whereas everything else can be forgiven? why is it wicked?
eg448 God does not forgive that partners be set up with Him, and He forgives what is beside that for whom He wills. Whoever sets-up partners with God has indeed invented a great sin.
4116 God does not forgive to have partners set up with Him, but He forgives other than that for whom He pleases. Whoever sets-up partners with God has indeed strayed a far straying.
572 .....Whoever sets-up partners with God, then God will forbid Paradise for him, and his destiny will be the Fire; and the wicked will have no supporters.?
9113 It is not for the prophet and those who believe that they should seek forgiveness for those who have set up partners, even if they are relatives, after it has been made clear to them that they are the dwellers of Hell.
986 Those who rejected from the people of the Scripture and those who set up partners are in the fires of Hell abiding therein, those are the worst of creation
It certainly has to do with the arrogance of those who set up partners - but again - why is it an unforgivable thing?
Do not ask about things that if revealed to you will harm you. Your god is One God. And those names you mention beside Him cannot help nor harm you.
And whoever of them who believes in God and the last day and does good, they will have their reward with their Lord, with no fear over them nor will they grieve.
Yes I know that you have to believe in God and the last day to get your reward - but my question was why? Why are people who do good things but set up partners still hell-bound because they didnt believe?
688 Such is the guidance of God, He guides with it whom He pleases of His servants. And if they set up partners, then all that they had worked would fall away from them.
In Christianity blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is the only unforgiveable sin.
How does shirk compare with blasphemy against the Holy Spirit?
The unforgivable sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is an act of resistance which belittles the Holy Spirit so grievously that he withdraws for ever with his convicting power so that we are never able to repent and be forgiven.
This is a very interesting point - i dont know much about it though and would be glad to hear from other people if theyd share their thoughts?
What about those that were polytheists and then become believers in the one true GOD? Is their shirk still unforgiven?
And God Forgives whoever He pleases, and He punishes whoever He pleases. So why repent?
2 things come to mind here
firstly - i think since you have become a believer in one true God then what you believed before was out of ignorance and "16119 Then your Lord to those who do evil out of ignorance, then they repent after that and they make right, your Lord after that is Forgiving, Merciful."
So its all cool with God if you repent for your previous ignorance and sin
417 Repentance is only for those who commit sin out of ignorance and then repent soon after; these will be forgiven by God, God is Knowledgeable, Wise.
418 And there will be no repentance for those who commit sin until death comes upon one of them, then he says ?I repent now!?, nor for those who die while they are disbelievers. To those We have prepared a painful retribution.second point - you asked And God Forgives whoever He pleases, and He punishes whoever He pleases. So why repent?
I remember looking into this a while ago - and if you look to the arabic when these verses arise its always "liman yashaa" commonly translated as "for whom He wills"
BUT i see it as "for whoever wills/wants" - ie. God forgives whoever wants (it - forgiveness)from another thread http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13529.msg114497#msg114497
"...But then i read verses like those that say God guides whom He wants, and misleads whom He wants."
This verse that you are talking about is one of the most misunderstood, I think.
I believe it should be read or translated this way
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The god guides whomever wills (to be guided) = the god provides the tools for guidance for him who wishes to be guided.
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The god misleads whomever wills (to be lead astray) = the god also provides the tools for those who want to be lead astray.
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The god doesn't choose who will be guided or not, we do choose for ourselves.
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The confusion about this verse (and others on the same issue) are purely due to the mindset of the persons interpreting them. The arabic text indeed does permit both readings, but as you noted, the traditional reading does create many contradiction.
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Thats my point - why is it that shirk is such a big "sin" which will "incur the wrath" since its not harming anyone - whereas everything else can be forgiven? why is it wicked?
eg448 God does not forgive that partners be set up with Him, and He forgives what is beside that for whom He wills. Whoever sets-up partners with God has indeed invented a great sin.
4116 God does not forgive to have partners set up with Him, but He forgives other than that for whom He pleases. Whoever sets-up partners with God has indeed strayed a far straying.
572 .....Whoever sets-up partners with God, then God will forbid Paradise for him, and his destiny will be the Fire; and the wicked will have no supporters.?
9113 It is not for the prophet and those who believe that they should seek forgiveness for those who have set up partners, even if they are relatives, after it has been made clear to them that they are the dwellers of Hell.
986 Those who rejected from the people of the Scripture and those who set up partners are in the fires of Hell abiding therein, those are the worst of creation
It certainly has to do with the arrogance of those who set up partners - but again - why is it an unforgivable thing?
Yes I know that you have to believe in God and the last day to get your reward - but my question was why? Why are people who do good things but set up partners still hell-bound because they didnt believe?
688 Such is the guidance of God, He guides with it whom He pleases of His servants. And if they set up partners, then all that they had worked would fall away from them.
Il tell you why, because God said so. And thsoe who rejected and set up partners are the worst of creation.
How can people do good when they disobey the most important commandment? God will nullify their works because they only show off, and they do not believe in God and the Last day. Dont be fooloed by their apperance. And many of the priest and monks who you may think do good, they hord the peoplse money and dont spend it in the cause of God and they repel away from the path.
What, do you think that its alright to disobey Gods commandments? God said do not serve except Him alone. Those you serve besides Him cannot create a fly.
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Here's a bit more information on sins against the Holy Spirit
http//www.lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=2633
Q. How does a person know if he or she has sinned against the Holy Spirit? Could a person commit this sin and not know about it? Is concern about this sin evidence that one has not committed it?
A. The sin against the Holy Spirit is the conscious, persistent, stubborn, unyielding refusal of someone who was at one time a believer to acknowledge his or her sin, be sorry for it, and desire God's forgiveness in Christ. It is impossible, therefore, for a confessing Christian to fall into this state unknowingly or unwillingly, and any confessing Christian who is sincerely concerned about the possibility of having committed this "sin" clearly has not committed it, because one of the necessary signs of being in this state of non-repentance and unbelief is having no real concern or remorse about being in this condition.
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Salaam all...
This reminds of when my mother used to tell me as a child... "Because I said so!" It's just not productive.
Peace
When God says to a matter " Be" then thats what it is. Why? " Because God said so." Even if the rejecters hate it. He is the Almighty.
And whoever sets up partners beside God, they have commited a gross sin. because God said " do not serve except Me!" And God get jealous when you serve others instead of Him, while He is the Almighty, the One who feeds and is not fed. He deserves all the praise.
So therefore, you all have been informed of " why". The word of your Lord came true " That I will fill Hell with the Jinn and the people all together."
And thsoe who set up partners are the worst of all creation. Thats why.
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Thats my point - why is it that shirk is such a big "sin" which will "incur the wrath" since its not harming anyone - whereas everything else can be forgiven? why is it wicked?
It certainly has to do with the arrogance of those who set up partners - but again - why is it an unforgivable thing?
Yes I know that you have to believe in God and the last day to get your reward - but my question was why? Why are people who do good things but set up partners still hell-bound because they didnt believe?
Salaam ay,
I would like to add that, as you must have noticed, atheists are not as severely condemned as Mushriks, so I would say the points you raised above are the most important questions to be addressed by everyone.
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Therefore what we need to explore first is a) what do you mean when you say; you have to believe in God,? b) What role does God play in our existence, and c) What do we understand by God the Omnipotent.
Then comes next question; -
What exactly does ?setting up partners? refer to? This we need to understand well in order to be able to steer clear of this one unforgivable sin.
peace
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Anyone can quote the holy scripture,its not difficult to see what is written,the depth of understanding that isnrequired maybe a different thing.Simply to quote.as if speaking with authority,is fraudulent,like a con man,convincing you of something for motives that are not what they seem,self agrandisement,power,insecurity,etc,etc.
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Anyone can quote the holy scripture,its not difficult to see what is written,the depth of understanding that isnrequired maybe a different thing.Simply to quote.as if speaking with authority,is fraudulent,like a con man,convincing you of something for motives that are not what they seem,self agrandisement,power,insecurity,etc,etc.
I dont agree.
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Anyone can quote the holy scripture,its not difficult to see what is written,the depth of understanding that isnrequired maybe a different thing.Simply to quote.as if speaking with authority,is fraudulent,like a con man,convincing you of something for motives that are not what they seem,self agrandisement,power,insecurity,etc,etc.
These are a few characteristics of a cult leader.
Peace
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this is sort of linked to my what does God get out of it question...
Why is "shirk" the unforgiveable sin while anything else can be forgiven? It is not harming anyone else?
And why do we have to believe? God always talks about almumineen/muslimeen/ahl alkitab as those who will know no fear while the mushrikeen/kuffar are the ones who will be hell-bound - if you are an atheist but a good person where does that leave you?thanks all!
God doesn't get anything out of it, it's purely for us. We depend on Allah entirely for our existence and for everything we do in our lives. Thanks why disbelief is bad for us - it means the person is disconnecting themselves from something they really need, rejecting Gods love for them. You can be forgiven for anything, as long as you choose to accept it. I interpret 'shirk' in this context as being the rejection of forgiveness.