Question regarding current salaat... sunni version
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Salaam to all
I have read through many articles on the main site and on the forum as well ... Most of what is written in the Light of the Quran makes sense and seems to be infallible... I have have been in discussion with friends and family regarding their views on Islam based on Quran alone... As you guess, the idea make a lot of bubbles... the 'sect' fog immediately come in the frontline... And not to forget the famous hadith alongside... where the prophet said that there will be 72 or 73 sects in islam and only one will be on the straight path.... Very tough brothers and sisters...
However, since the Quran is perfect and clear... the answers to many questions asked to me came almost instantly... since Al-Quran is according to the logic of the creatures its intended for... BUT... yes there is a but... there is one question which I am failing to find the answer... Its regarding the salaat...
I was discussing with a friend and the conversation was as follows... he said,
Now we are currently praying 5 swalat per day... Lets not talk about the swalat times, but let us talk about the ritual and positions we adopt in salaat like the qiyaam, ruku, sujoud, tashahoud, salaam etc... I said ok... he continued... He said... When the prophet got the command to perform salaat, he performed it.. and kept performing it till his death.. I said ok... he continued... So as the prophet was performing the salaat, his followers, followed him in the salaat... and in turn they taught their children, who in turn taught their children... and it went/goes on like this till the swalaat reach us... the same swalaat that was performed by the prophet... reached us intactly... And this type of performing swalaat is approved and explained in the hadiths... This is the first question...
Now he shifted to swalaat times... He said that we are now praying 5 times a day, the people at Mecca, where the prophet lived, got revelation, preached and died... they also are performing 5 times a day... All over the world they are performing 5 times a day... While the Quran teach only 3 times per day... So how come so many people have been diverted from the true Islam which says 3 times swalat per day according to the Quran... This is the second question
Now the last question... He continued and said...Now lets assume that the true Islam says 3 times swalat per day... It means the sahabah did the same number of swalat and same for the people who came later... So when in time did the shift occur from 3 times to 5 times... In case it occurred... That is people distorted hadith and added 2 more swalaat.. then there should have always been a group still performing the 3 times swalaat... those who would have stick to the Quran... they would have opposed firmly..... Where were they all these times? We dont find them anywhere... Its not an overnight thing to change swalat from 3 to 5 times a day... Never heard of them until the recent 15-20 years from now... Had the real swalaat number been 3... they would have remained groups of people in all these times who would have kept performing 3 swalaat... So where were they all these times...
The conversation ended and i was left with this case to resolve... but I told him that if God wills, I will come tomorrow with an answer...
So brothers and sisters, anyone who have an explanation.. please reply back... It will be good for us all... BTW... my friend is from the salafi school... the hard cores...
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Salaam bro WayFinder,
Firstly, welcome to the forums. I am glad you can be here to discuss and learn and I hope you don't take anything we say as truth unless you verify it for yourself.
Let me clarify, are you asking about when the "shift" in Salat occur? I have a question as well. When did the shift with the Christians into believing Jesus was the son of God occur. When did the shift of the jews into believing they were God's chosen people/his loved ones occur? -
Salaam bro WayFinder,
Firstly, welcome to the forums. I am glad you can be here to discuss and learn and I hope you don't take anything we say as truth unless you verify it for yourself.
Let me clarify, are you asking about when the "shift" in Salat occur? I have a question as well. When did the shift with the Christians into believing Jesus was the son of God occur. When did the shift of the jews into believing they were God's chosen people/his loved ones occur?That was 100% the answer I gave myself to him brother... ;D but answering a question by another question does not seem to be very convincing so far.... Specially that in our case... Allah has already made it clear in the Book that the Jews and the Christian went astray... I mean, Allah confirmed that they modified their book... and as for the Quran, Allah guarantees its preservation and protection forever... So he uses this point to say that things cannot have changed because Allah protected all the things in relation with the Quran... such as salaat for example...
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Peace Wayfinder,
welcome I am also fairly new to this forum and have been following true islam for about a year now. I was also a hard core salafi for about 11 years but sunni for 14, made hijrah and all and we're still in the middle east finding it difficult to get home for many reasons.
I'll give you my personal example at how I looked at this issue after 11 years of salafism. First of all, we were given the 'proofs' of having to follow the man-made hadith books and we were convinced. When I read the article called Authority of the Quran for the first time it completely shattered all of those arguments with the quran alone and I was shocked and repentant to my Lord for making shirk. I never intended to do this. I wanted to stay as far away as possible from shirk but was wholeheartedly in the midst of it. Since it was always overwhelmingly important for me to please my Creator and make sure that I follow His words everything else came easier. With your friend, maybe you should first establish whether His Creator is foremost important to him. As a salafi, there is really NO DIFFERNCE between Muhammad and Allah and that is the biggest crime. Actually as a salafi, Muhammad comes before Allah so if he isn't sure about the REAL difference he won't be able to see anything else. This is all due to belief in the hadith books ATTRIBUTED to Muhammad.
Once this change took place for me salat is right on the heels. My first experience was with 19ers, those who serve the count of 19 and they tried to prove the sunni salat with calculations first and foremost and then what they did was take different verses that SEEM to support how the sunni salat is done but yet ALL of them are being taking out of context and just merely being USED for that purpose but have NOTHING to do with the salat at all. At first I believed them which brought other inconsistencies but once I started to analyze for myself their arguments and had personal contact with one of them, I realized that I can't fall into the trap of just believing people again. After really scrutinizing their 'proofs' I realized that they were really no different in practice than the sunnis and they did what THEY WANTED with Allah's book and not vice versa, to let His message shine through clearly without distortions.
So for your friend, if he is convinced that Allah does come first then that's half the battle at least and if he believes that Allah's words have NO DOUBT then take the argument to Allah 4159 since here is a disagreement. I always stuck to this principle. Ask him, would the messenger contradict Allah and make up his own laws? Here are the basic verses that contradict 5x a day salat 11114, 1778, 2458 If he can get past these and realize that there is no way the messenger could contradict Allah, especially in delivering the message then here are some of the verses pertaining to the salat that I saw also refutes the sunni salat 2114, 115, 125, 144, 149, 150 - 3113 - 4101-103, 162 - 555 - 7170 - 835 - 9108, 112 - 1598 - 17107, 110, 111 - 26219
In addition to this, their whole concepts of how many raka'aat and sajdahs is NO WHERE to be found in Allah's book. The words, raka'ah and sajdah in arabic are NO WHERE in the reading but rather, the verbs of each and their fa'il (the one who performs such) and their verbal noun (sujud) which denotes a continual action not some particular count every so often. For example, they call a surah as-sajdah but that arabic word is not in the surah nor in the quran so that was another heads up for me. So if none of this is in the quran WHERE could have Muhammad gotten it since Allah doesn't speak of any other revelations called Sahih Bukhari or others? Does he believe that these other books are Allah's books as well that He talks about in the quran that came AFTER the quran? If not, then why is he even believing and trusting them?
I hope this isn't too confusing for you. You will see instantly that this topic alone will lead to many other topics and issues. If you want the verses for raka'a and sajada let me know. Not to mention there is no tasleem mentioned in the reading, no command, not even 'qul' 'say' to say al-fatihah, no tashahud. Why when 'qiyaam' is mentioned with 'sujud' in the quran 'sujud' is always mentioned first? 2564, 399 Is he willing to say that since Allah's book contradicts with the hadith books then Allah's book is inconsistent and should be abandoned?
When he gets to this point "So as the prophet was performing the salaat, his followers, followed him in the salaat... and in turn they taught their children, who in turn taught their children... and it went/goes on like this till the swalaat reach us... the same swalaat that was performed by the prophet... reached us intactly... And this type of performing swalaat is approved and explained in the hadiths... This is the first question..."
Can he say for certain that he knows the followers of Muhammad outside of what some people wrote in some books? This whole point is based on conjecture and he only believes this since he believes in the hadith books this is the source of the problem. Ask him, why isn't this type of salat approved and explained in the quran? If the quran contradicts it what will he believe then?
When he said "He said that we are now praying 5 times a day, the people at Mecca, where the prophet lived, got revelation, preached and died... they also are performing 5 times a day... All over the world they are performing 5 times a day... While the Quran teach only 3 times per day... So how come so many people have been diverted from the true Islam which says 3 times swalat per day according to the Quran... "
The first problem is with the place called Mecca but that's another discussion. Did he actually express doubts in his words and tone towards the quran when he said this as if automatically the quran must be wrong? If so, then what is he really believing in, he needs to deal with this. Allah says why people are diverted clearly
6116 And if you obey most of who is in the earth they are leading you astray from the path of Allah. They follow not except conjecture/ guessing/ assumptions and they are not except falsifying.
Then He tells us about those who believe
12106 And most of them believe not in Allah except while they are mushrikeen (those who make partners).
Sunnis have made their scholars, Bukhari and Muslim and many others partners with Allah, that's the crux of it, in the name of Muhammad by ATTRIBUTING all of this to him.
When he said It means the sahabah did the same number of swalat and same for the people who came later... So when in time did the shift occur from 3 times to 5 times... In case it occurred... That is people distorted hadith and added 2 more swalaat.. then there should have always been a group still performing the 3 times swalaat... those who would have stick to the Quran... they would have opposed firmly..... Where were they all these times? We dont find them anywhere... Its not an overnight thing to change swalat from 3 to 5 times a day... Never heard of them until the recent 15-20 years from now... Had the real swalaat number been 3... they would have remained groups of people in all these times who would have kept performing 3 swalaat... So where were they all these times...
Subhanallah! Again does he know for certain WHO these 'sahabah' are, who are also made partners with Allah, outside of the hadith books and hand me down stories? Why didn't Allah refer to them as sahabah but He only refers to a group as 'those who believe with him'? Again, he stated above that the quran MAY mention 3 but he is obviously doubting that and wants to refute the quran! There are believers in the quran alone everywhere but would have their story survived in the hadith books that already contradict MOST Of the quran? Their story with no doubt is in the quran itself. What do you think will happen to the many people, over time and recorded in history, who don't believe in the hype of 911 since IT IS false? Most historical accounts only reflect the main political influences with power, including hadith books and that's how they began if he looks at their history to begin with. Show him Allah's words in 6116 and see if he still wants to doubt his Creator and believes that he should be able to follow the majority and he will arrive at the truth. Where did Allah tell us to follow the majority?
Maybe you see that the real issue, as hard as it is to tackle, is is islam really quran and sunnah or is it just quran? If he believes in hadith books like he does the quran, really you can't, or actually believes in them MORE then this is your fight.
Sorry to be a little long but you will have a real struggle on your hands and will have to discuss many issues. May Allah give you the strength and steadfastness to remain on the truth until death.
Sincerely,
Umm Tariq -
Peace Wayfinder,
welcome I am also fairly new to this forum and have been following true islam for about a year now. I was also a hard core salafi for about 11 years but sunni for 14, made hijrah and all and we're still in the middle east finding it difficult to get home for many reasons.
I'll give you my personal example at how I looked at this issue after 11 years of salafism. First of all, we were given the 'proofs' of having to follow the man-made hadith books and we were convinced. When I read the article called Authority of the Quran for the first time it completely shattered all of those arguments with the quran alone and I was shocked and repentant to my Lord for making shirk. I never intended to do this. I wanted to stay as far away as possible from shirk but was wholeheartedly in the midst of it. Since it was always overwhelmingly important for me to please my Creator and make sure that I follow His words everything else came easier. With your friend, maybe you should first establish whether His Creator is foremost important to him. As a salafi, there is really NO DIFFERNCE between Muhammad and Allah and that is the biggest crime. Actually as a salafi, Muhammad comes before Allah so if he isn't sure about the REAL difference he won't be able to see anything else. This is all due to belief in the hadith books ATTRIBUTED to Muhammad.
Once this change took place for me salat is right on the heels. My first experience was with 19ers, those who serve the count of 19 and they tried to prove the sunni salat with calculations first and foremost and then what they did was take different verses that SEEM to support how the sunni salat is done but yet ALL of them are being taking out of context and just merely being USED for that purpose but have NOTHING to do with the salat at all. At first I believed them which brought other inconsistencies but once I started to analyze for myself their arguments and had personal contact with one of them, I realized that I can't fall into the trap of just believing people again. After really scrutinizing their 'proofs' I realized that they were really no different in practice than the sunnis and they did what THEY WANTED with Allah's book and not vice versa, to let His message shine through clearly without distortions.
So for your friend, if he is convinced that Allah does come first then that's half the battle at least and if he believes that Allah's words have NO DOUBT then take the argument to Allah 4159 since here is a disagreement. I always stuck to this principle. Ask him, would the messenger contradict Allah and make up his own laws? Here are the basic verses that contradict 5x a day salat 11114, 1778, 2458 If he can get past these and realize that there is no way the messenger could contradict Allah, especially in delivering the message then here are some of the verses pertaining to the salat that I saw also refutes the sunni salat 2114, 115, 125, 144, 149, 150 - 3113 - 4101-103, 162 - 555 - 7170 - 835 - 9108, 112 - 1598 - 17107, 110, 111 - 26219
In addition to this, their whole concepts of how many raka'aat and sajdahs is NO WHERE to be found in Allah's book. The words, raka'ah and sajdah in arabic are NO WHERE in the reading but rather, the verbs of each and their fa'il (the one who performs such) and their verbal noun (sujud) which denotes a continual action not some particular count every so often. For example, they call a surah as-sajdah but that arabic word is not in the surah nor in the quran so that was another heads up for me. So if none of this is in the quran WHERE could have Muhammad gotten it since Allah doesn't speak of any other revelations called Sahih Bukhari or others? Does he believe that these other books are Allah's books as well that He talks about in the quran that came AFTER the quran? If not, then why is he even believing and trusting them?
I hope this isn't too confusing for you. You will see instantly that this topic alone will lead to many other topics and issues. If you want the verses for raka'a and sajada let me know. Not to mention there is no tasleem mentioned in the reading, no command, not even 'qul' 'say' to say al-fatihah, no tashahud. Why when 'qiyaam' is mentioned with 'sujud' in the quran 'sujud' is always mentioned first? 2564, 399 Is he willing to say that since Allah's book contradicts with the hadith books then Allah's book is inconsistent and should be abandoned?
When he gets to this point "So as the prophet was performing the salaat, his followers, followed him in the salaat... and in turn they taught their children, who in turn taught their children... and it went/goes on like this till the swalaat reach us... the same swalaat that was performed by the prophet... reached us intactly... And this type of performing swalaat is approved and explained in the hadiths... This is the first question..."
Can he say for certain that he knows the followers of Muhammad outside of what some people wrote in some books? This whole point is based on conjecture and he only believes this since he believes in the hadith books this is the source of the problem. Ask him, why isn't this type of salat approved and explained in the quran? If the quran contradicts it what will he believe then?
When he said "He said that we are now praying 5 times a day, the people at Mecca, where the prophet lived, got revelation, preached and died... they also are performing 5 times a day... All over the world they are performing 5 times a day... While the Quran teach only 3 times per day... So how come so many people have been diverted from the true Islam which says 3 times swalat per day according to the Quran... "
The first problem is with the place called Mecca but that's another discussion. Did he actually express doubts in his words and tone towards the quran when he said this as if automatically the quran must be wrong? If so, then what is he really believing in, he needs to deal with this. Allah says why people are diverted clearly
6116 And if you obey most of who is in the earth they are leading you astray from the path of Allah. They follow not except conjecture/ guessing/ assumptions and they are not except falsifying.
Then He tells us about those who believe
12106 And most of them believe not in Allah except while they are mushrikeen (those who make partners).
Sunnis have made their scholars, Bukhari and Muslim and many others partners with Allah, that's the crux of it, in the name of Muhammad by ATTRIBUTING all of this to him.
When he said It means the sahabah did the same number of swalat and same for the people who came later... So when in time did the shift occur from 3 times to 5 times... In case it occurred... That is people distorted hadith and added 2 more swalaat.. then there should have always been a group still performing the 3 times swalaat... those who would have stick to the Quran... they would have opposed firmly..... Where were they all these times? We dont find them anywhere... Its not an overnight thing to change swalat from 3 to 5 times a day... Never heard of them until the recent 15-20 years from now... Had the real swalaat number been 3... they would have remained groups of people in all these times who would have kept performing 3 swalaat... So where were they all these times...
Subhanallah! Again does he know for certain WHO these 'sahabah' are, who are also made partners with Allah, outside of the hadith books and hand me down stories? Why didn't Allah refer to them as sahabah but He only refers to a group as 'those who believe with him'? Again, he stated above that the quran MAY mention 3 but he is obviously doubting that and wants to refute the quran! There are believers in the quran alone everywhere but would have their story survived in the hadith books that already contradict MOST Of the quran? Their story with no doubt is in the quran itself. What do you think will happen to the many people, over time and recorded in history, who don't believe in the hype of 911 since IT IS false? Most historical accounts only reflect the main political influences with power, including hadith books and that's how they began if he looks at their history to begin with. Show him Allah's words in 6116 and see if he still wants to doubt his Creator and believes that he should be able to follow the majority and he will arrive at the truth. Where did Allah tell us to follow the majority?
Maybe you see that the real issue, as hard as it is to tackle, is is islam really quran and sunnah or is it just quran? If he believes in hadith books like he does the quran, really you can't, or actually believes in them MORE then this is your fight.
Sorry to be a little long but you will have a real struggle on your hands and will have to discuss many issues. May Allah give you the strength and steadfastness to remain on the truth until death.
Sincerely,
Umm Tariqjedi peace
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Peace Wayfinder )
Many evidences show us that the current Salat is nothing but invention, and has nothing to do with the quranic salat. The current sunni salat is man-made and some evidences for examples show us that the sunni and salat is copied from zoroastrian religion.
Let me quotes some information about tis from one of my past posts
When i first found monotheism(Islam based on Quran alone), I also believed that prayer should be ritual, and that the ritual prayer is something that we must do 3-5 times a day. However, after i studied the Quran, and did a research, i came to the conclusion that Salat = Reading/Reciting the Quran. I think the Ritual prayer in sunnism and shiaism has nothing to do with the Quranic teachings, and actually is Copied from the Zoroastrian religion. Read the interesting article about similarities between Zoroastrian Ritual Prayer and Sunnism Ritual Prayer.
The Ritual Prayer in Zorostrianism is almost exactly identical with the Ritual Prayer of Sunni-muslims
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8029.0
Infusion of Zoroastrian tradition into Sunnism
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14590.0
Your sincerely
David -
Assalaam Alaikum
"The words, raka'ah and sajdah in arabic are NO WHERE in the reading"
There's an entire Sura titled Al-Sajdah in the Quran!!
Before making a statement about the Quran, keep in mind, because you may not know or have not been told something about a particular reference in the Quran, does NOT suggest its NOT there.
Who seeth you standing forth (in Prayer),
Allathee yaraka heena taqoomu (The 'Ya' is silent in recitation)
And thy movements among those who prostrate themselves,
Wataqallubaka fee alssajideena
So the angels prostrated themselves / Fasajada , all of them together.
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Assalaam Alaikum
There are actually 6 'timings' defined in the Quran as 'Sunnah'
The 'Salat' is 'established' by....
Recite what is inspired to you from The Book and establish SALAH / PRAYER. Surely SALAH / PRAYER stops from obscenity and that which is disguised. and definitely remembrance of Allah is great. And Allah knows what you fabricate.
(This was Our Way) Sunnah with the Messengers We sent before you. you wilt find no change in Our Sunnah (ways).
? Establish SALAH / PRAYER by the sun's decline (Zuhar, Asar) to the darkening of the night (Maghrib, Esha) and the reading of the dawn, (Fajr) surely the reading of the dawn is witnessed.
Aqimi alssalata lidulooki alshshamsi ila ghasaqi allayli waqurana alfajri inna qurana alfajri kana mashhoodan
And so be vigilant / Tahajjud from the night, an additional for you, so it may be THAT YOUR LORD WILL RAISE YOU TO A STANDING POSITION OF PRAISE.
Wamina allayli fatahajjad bihi nafil atanlaka AAasa an yabAAathaka rabbuka maqaman mahmoodan
Here are the 6 timings.....
AL-FAJR 891 (FAJR)By the day when it breaks
AL-LAIL 922 (ZUHR) By the day when it shines.
AL-ASAR 1031 (ASR) By the (sun shine when it) squeezes.
AL-LAIL 921 (MAGHRIB) By the night when it envelopes.
AL-ZUHA 932 (ESHA) By the night when it darkens.
AL-MUDDASSIR 7433 (TAHAJJUD)By the night when it retreats.
HOOD 11114 And establish SALAH / PRAYER at the two extremities of the day (day time,Zuhar, Asar) and from the advances of the night. (Night time, Maghrib, Esha, Fajr) Surely the goodness will take away the badness. That is the remembrance for those who remember.
TA-HA- 20130 So you be patient over what they say and glorify with the praises of your Lord before the rising of the sun (night time, Maghrib, Esha, Fajr) and before its setting (day time, Zuhar, Asar) and from the parts of the night, (continuous night time, Fajr, Zuhar, Asar, Maghrib, Esha) and so glorify at the extremities of the day (continuous day time Fajr, Zuhar, Asar, Maghrib, Esha) so that you will be pleased.
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Assalaam Alaikum
? Have you not seen that whatsoever is in the skies and in the earth praises for Allah and the birds in the rows. Everyone knows his SALAH / PRAYER and his praise. And Allah knows with what they do.
Do they not look at Allah's creation, (even) among (inanimate) things,- How their (very) SHADOWS TURN ROUND, FROM THE RIGHT AND THE LEFT, PROSTRATING THEMSELVES TO ALLAH, and that in the humblest manner?
And to Allah doth obeisance all that is in the heavens and on earth, whether moving (living) creatures or the angels. for none are arrogant (before their Lord).
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Peace Brother,
AL-FAJR 891 (FAJR)By the day when it breaks
AL-LAIL 922 (ZUHR) By the day when it shines.
AL-ASAR 1031 (ASR) By the (sun shine when it) squeezes.
AL-LAIL 921 (MAGHRIB) By the night when it envelopes.
AL-ZUHA 932 (ESHA) By the night when it darkens.
AL-MUDDASSIR 7433 (TAHAJJUD)By the night when it retreat
These verses does not give any indication that they are talking about SWALAH... How you come to these conclusions?
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Assalaam Alaikum
If you would have taken the time to read my previous posts in context with the last post, you clearly see the foundation of salat is determined by the alternation of the Sun and the Moon.
How else are 'shadows' produced? Which denote the correct 'timings' of salat.
So when you complete the (shortened) SALAH / PRAYER then remember Allah in standing and sitting and ON YOUR SIDES, so when you are in tranquility then establish SALAH / PRAYER, surely SALAH / PRAYER TIMINGS ARE WRITTEN OVER / AAala THE BELIEVERS / kitaban mawqootan.
AAala (preposition) over, upon
kitaban(tanween-fatha, indefinite) written, prescribed, ordinance, law, prescribed, record, letter, term, scripture, teachings, knowledge
Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 478 (waqata)mawqootan (tanween-fatha, indefinite) fixed, stated time or period, ordained;Root word Waqata to fix, appoint the time of an action
Dictionary of the Holy Quran page 616 (kataba) -
Assalaam Alaikum...
Just in case you did not know the entire Quran is salat!
Only those believe in Our Signs, who, when they are recited to them, fall down in adoration, and celebrate the praises of their Lord, nor are they (ever) puffed up with pride.
Their LIMBS DO FORSAKE THEIR BEDS OF SLEEP, the while they call on their Lord, in Fear and Hope. and they spend (in charity) out of the sustenance which We have bestowed on them.
For ALL Humankind....
It is We Who have sent down the Qur'an to you by stages.
Therefore be patient with constancy to the Command of thy Lord, and hearken not to the sinner or the ingrate among them.
And celebrate the name of thy Lord morning and evening,
And part of the night, prostrate thyself to Him; and glorify Him a long night through.
al insi means human beings, plural; Root word anisa See Hans Wehr Arabic English Dictionary 4th Ed. Page 38-39 (anisa)
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where the prophet said that there will be 72 or 73 sects in islam and only one will be on the straight path.... Very tough brothers and sisters...
Now the last question... He continued and said...Now lets assume that the true Islam says 3 times swalat per day... It means the sahabah did the same number of swalat and same for the people who came later... So when in time did the shift occur from 3 times to 5 times... In case it occurred... That is people distorted hadith and added 2 more swalaat.. then there should have always been a group still performing the 3 times swalaat... those who would have stick to the Quran... they would have opposed firmly..... Where were they all these times? We dont find them anywhere... Its not an overnight thing to change swalat from 3 to 5 times a day... Never heard of them until the recent 15-20 years from now... Had the real swalaat number been 3... they would have remained groups of people in all these times who would have kept performing 3 swalaat... So where were they all these times...
As Salaamu Alaykum
Actually the 3 Salaat Theory is false and have been dealt with, you may want to check out this link
http//www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/3salaattheoryexposed.htm
And this link address the hadiyth about the 73 sects
http//www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/73sectsinislaam.htm -
About the history of Muslims who uphold/upheld the 3 salaat are
- Kharajites
- Nizari Ismailis (constituting of 90% of all Ismailis)
- Mutazilis
I myself am still not 100% sure if its 3 or 5 because of all this discussion and both sides giving good arguements, although I am leaning a bit more towards 5 at the moment.
Peace
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As Salaamu Alaykum
Actually the 3 Salaat Theory is false and have been dealt with, you may want to check out this link
http//www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/3salaattheoryexposed.htm
And this link address the hadiyth about the 73 sects
http//www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/73sectsinislaam.htmI can't see how anyone can say the 3 salat theory is false. Or the 5 salat theory is false. Or the 2 salat theory is false.
I really do not understand why there must be a theory in the 1st place about salat. I have seen endless discussion about this. It always ends the same with nobody able to thump the other.
Sometimes you read a 2 salat theory and you say to yourself hmm
Then you read about a 3 salat theory and you say to yourself once again hmm
Then someone asks why should we question the 5 salat and he brings his reasons and once again you are hmm
A Koranic analysis would end with 2 or 3 if you ask me. If you accept the communal practices then its 5.