Number of wives?

unknownuser

Salaams,

I don?t think the following have anything to do with Guarding as used in the quran-unfortunately.

She does not have to if

She is sterile or menopausal
-She is already pregnant
-he decides to have no more children
One of the husbands is sterlile
-Each husband is of different race
-She is smart enough to know to whom the child belongs
It does not matter who the child belongs to Each husband will have one assigned to him, or the richest will have them all

434
Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance) For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).

The Guarding (above) is from other humans outside of the marriage tie- as the following ayah?s indicate- I think.

7039
And those who guard their chastity,

7040
Except with their partners whom they are married to,- for (then) they are not to be blamed,

God Bless All. peace

liquiddharma

liquid dharma
See dharma gee, you are at very initial level of knowledge about Muhammad and quran, it seems, or may be you are pretending. There are verses those confirm that Muhammad had more than one wives at a time. Yes Muhammad can commit a mistake but on his every mistake Allah made a grip but not on practicing polygene.
I was not aware that a thread on almost same topic was being discussed here otherwise I would have not started a new one at general issues and questions.

Heya Raj-ah, the verses in the quran which talk about the prophet's wives (plural) can be referring to wives married sequentially, each after the previous wife has died, and not simultainiously.

With regards to shortages of one gender, this is not the cause of polygamy. The cause of polygamy is economic inequality. Not there being a shortage of men, but most men being too poor to marry, so the rich men like to make up for it by grabbing all the women, after they have greedily hoarded all the money.

farida

She does not have to if

She is sterile or menopausal

It could be that the ayah is not addressed to sterile of menopausal women only?

She is already pregnant

All the more reason to guard as not many men would care much about their rival's child. voodoo

he decides to have no more children

You mean they????

One of the husbands is sterlile

Unless all the husbands are sterile yes

-Each husband is of different race

How would different race help her to guard herself ???

-She is smart enough to know to whom the child belongs

Seeing the extremely high number of abortions carreid out on smart women who accidentally become pragnant. How smart do women have to be to know that,???

It does not matter who the child belongs to Each husband will have one assigned to him, or the richest will have them all ;D

Modern husbands, rich or poor, run away from their own children and you propose they would look after each other's children. You mean something like the failed Bagwan Shiri's Ashram? laugh

No Samia let's be honest and admit that a woman is not supposed to have more then one husband, at a time, as ancestry is very important. Remember the ayat, where God instructs us to call children by their father's name. Also, for the importance of knowing one's ancestry, ask adopted kids who do not know about their parents.
peace

liquiddharma

Very true, farida, women are not meant to have more than one husband at a time. But the reason is not identifying the father, because we have DNA tests these days.

The reason is your other point -
Modern husbands, rich or poor, run away from their own children and you propose they would look after each other's children.

That is equally true of modern wives. Having multiple wives reduces the number of parental hours a child can have in the same way as multiple husbands. So both are bad.

farida

Very true, farida, women are not meant to have more than one husband at a time. But the reason is not identifying the father, because we have DNA tests these days.

DNA is modern phenomenon and the Qur'an is for all ages, including those who can not affort DNA tests.

That is equally true of modern wives. Having multiple wives reduces the number of parental hours a child can have in the same way as multiple husbands. So both are bad.

Having a full time job too reduces number of valuable parental hours and what a miserable situation for children when they have to rely on child minders for their upbringing.
The question is not if both are good or bad but what is the reality and the sadly so called monogamous society hypocritically takes mistresses, girlfriends and boyfriends, As a result everyone is adulterated including children.
peace

Samia

No Samia let's be honest and admit that a woman is not supposed to have more then one husband, at a time, as ancestry is very important. Remember the ayat, where God instructs us to call children by their father's name. Also, for the importance of knowing one's ancestry, ask adopted kids who do not know about their parents.

Children may not know about their fathers for many reasons other than, or least for polyandry. "And call them by their fathers' names, but if you do not know their fathers, then they are your brothers...".So even the quraan accommodated for that.

I hope you did not, nor the others, understood that I am for polyandry. It cannot be that I am strongly against polygamy without the restriction cited in the only verse mentioning polygamy, and then support polyandry. My first post in this subject was in response to someone who asked for a verse where God prohibits polygamy

There is nothing in the Quran forbidding the man from making the same promise with another wife if he can keep it.

farida

Children may not know about their fathers for many reasons other than, or least for polyandry. "And call them by their fathers' names, but if you do not know their fathers, then they are your brothers...".So even the quraan accommodated for that.

Salaam Samia,
Of course the Qur'an accommodates all situations but that does not negate the fact that ancestry is very important in Islam and women are asked not to hide it.

I hope you did not, nor the others, understood that I am for polyandry.
Who are we to judge but provocative response would solve nothing. Let?s eliminate this friction and do all we can to work together for wider good and hold dialogue with those men whose views may appear harsh.
peace

FAR

Any verse?

Quran 424

Polyandry is forbidden...

Samia

Who are we to judge but provocative response would solve nothing. Let?s eliminate this friction and do all we can to work together for wider good and hold dialogue with those men whose views may appear harsh.
peace

I did ot use the word "judge"; and provocative response can shake up some people and make them think impartially. This is not fiction.

Samia

Samia
Samia you and your other friends got this one wrong too, as in many previous cases. You are so impressed by west that don't mind even making fun of signs of Allah.

I do not understand what west has to do here in this discussion, but I want you to show me what signs of Allah my friends and I make fun of.

And what are those "many previous cases"? Who decides that we/ I got them wrong? You? nope

Elke

Exactly, i do not understand either why the "west" is stated as opposed to "allah" ? The "west" being part of the creation (as far as i know) and "allah" being the one god of all creation....but may be rajah thinks differently...

Also samia, I did understand that you are not for polyandry and i'm happy to be counted among your friends -*

unknownuser

Quran 424

Polyandry is forbidden...

Amazing how simple this verse makes things- to understand. Thanks FAR. yay

God Bless All.

Samia

Amazing how simple this verse makes things- to understand. Thanks FAR. yay

God Bless All.

How is that? Because both of you put "muhsanaat" as married? Comme on! The verse after it says "And whoever among you could not find the means to marry the muhsanaat (married, according to you), then MMA....". Does it mean that there are means to marry them, but some do not have them? What is MMA in your opinion (both of you)? Because they seem to be the alternative in case you are uable to marry "the married"!

Samia

Exactly, i do not understand either why the "west" is stated as opposed to "allah" ? The "west" being part of the creation (as far as i know) and "allah" being the one god of all creation....but may be rajah thinks differently...

Also samia, I did understand that you are not for polyandry and i'm happy to be counted among your friends -*

And I am flattered my friends are those who have reason handshake

unknownuser

How is that? Because both of you put "muhsanaat" as married? Comme on! The verse after it says "And whoever among you could not find the means to marry the muhsanaat (married, according to you), then MMA....". Does it mean that there are means to marry them, but some do not have them? What is MMA in your opinion (both of you)? Because they seem to be the alternative in case you are uable to marry "the married"!

And is it simple or what?

hypno

We can marry married women in our right hands.....

425
And married women except those whom possess your right hands ????.

Now what if a person can?t afford to marry even from those they possess in their right hands????then get permission from their guardians i.e. for leniency.

426
And who not is able of you to afford that he marries married women, believing women, from those whom possess your right hands of your maids believing and Allah knows all about your faith you are one from another the marry them with permission of their guardian s and give them their bridal-due in a fair manner married women should not be adulterous nor given to secret love affairs and when they are married????..

When ever we start quistioning , we always learn something new!

Allah Hafiz.

Raj-ah

Heya Raj-ah, the verses in the quran which talk about the prophet's wives (plural) can be referring to wives married sequentially, each after the previous wife has died, and not simultainiously.

No, Sir you have to revisit the verses they are very clear.

Samia,

By west I mean Anti Islamic propoganda, sorry if I did not used appropraite word, but what to say that almost all the propoganda against Islam orginates from west.

Associating polygene with Islam, as if it were introduced by it or is the norm according to its teachings, is one of the most persistent myths perpetuated in Western literature and media now a days.

Samia quran is word of Allah and it is not what you and your friends wish. You have to understand that Polygene was allowed in Quran for a specific purpose at specific time, this is crystal clear.
I have explained it in the other thread that; I just copy it.

Salaam'
First of all we have to get out of the inferiority complex. Yaseen, I think is a European and is definitely impressed by many of the existing cultural values there. Well we have no objection to that. But the problem starts when impressed by some latest ideology or cultural value he tries to change the Quran according to his own wishes and thoughts. Off course I am not saying that he or any one who does this have bad intentions.
For example consider why this issue of many wives was not raised till a century ago? with all these crackers, simply because it was not an issue then. Presently in Europe Muslims are bashed and criticised for practicing polygene, because Europeans think it is not good not just, however they would have no objection if women too are allowed to practice polyandry. They forget that few centuries back the Hindus, and even Jews practiced Polygene. In Judaism Polygene was permitted. According to Talmudic law, Abraham had 2 wives, and Solomon had hundreds of wives. The practice of polygene continued until Rabbi Gershom ben Yehudah. (960 A.D to 1030 A.D) issued an edict against it. The Jewish Sephardic communities living in Muslim countries continued the practice till as late as 1950, when an Act of the chief Rabbinate of Israel extended the ban on marrying more than one wife.
Slavery is another example for which Islam is criticised, more than ever at present. Again, until last century the west was the champion of slavery most of their wealth owes to the trading of slaves, but as soon it was abolished and its negative points over came its positive points, many Muslim scholars came ahead trying to convince that Islam was the first to abolish slavery. That was with good intentions but not the reality.
I have never seen so much deviation from original meanings of ayat as is done in this article.
What I mean to say is that when the writer starts reading Quran to answer a question he has already arrived at a conclusion, the conclusion that Polygene is not good and not just.
There have been many explanations to above ayat of Surah Nisa. The one that fits the most according to our understanding, we will discuss it shortly.
We must know that Quran was not send to us in a book shape it was revealed, part by part, many of the Ayats are general and many are specific for the problems of the people those were faced at the time.
After the battle of Uhd, when many Muslims were killed, many new problems arose which were never there before. One was of the orphans and widows.

What is said about Yaseen can be said about Samia and Elke too.

I am no one to decide, dear Samia, it is the Quran which decides.

Elke

rajah,

from one short addition of mine to samia's post how can you derive what i think about polygamy ? Not to talk bout slavery in islam?
i'm am not a champion of polygamy but i never stated it didn't exist in quran. i even agree with some of what you write here

For example consider why this issue of many wives was not raised till a century ago? with all these crackers, simply because it was not an issue then. Presently in Europe Muslims are bashed and criticised for practicing polygene, because Europeans think it is not good not just, however they would have no objection if women too are allowed to practice polyandry. They forget that few centuries back the Hindus, and even Jews practiced Polygene.

except the part

however they would have no objection if women too are allowed to practice polyandry

... europeans have diverse ideas on these issues too

What you say about slavery is correct as well, but do you mean to say that if i agree on this it would mean that i accept slavery or that i should because it is mentionned in quran?

come on, stop generalizing and putting people in boxes
life is much more complex than that

Samia

Samia,

By west I mean Anti Islamic propoganda, sorry if I did not used appropraite word, but what to say that almost all the propoganda against Islam orginates from west.

Originates from the west? So you are OK with the the corruption of Islam that originates from Muslims themselves since the first centries of islam in the form of hadiths and funny "Islamic" law? That's what I fight against and do not accept, because it touches my life, and other muslims' lives, directly or indirectly. What some one in the west or the east says does not even merit my time as much as it does you.

Samia quran is word of Allah and it is not what you and your friends wish. You have to understand that Polygene was allowed in Quran for a specific purpose at specific time, this is crystal clear.
I have explained it in the other thread that; I just copy it.

I am no one to decide, dear Samia, it is the Quran which decides.

I can also use this "holier than thou" rubbish against you, but I don't because I am not bankrupt in reasoning. If you just took the burden of reading my posts, not all over this site, but just on the first page of this thread you would not come up with this nonensense, and you would not even use this wrong word "polygene multiple genes" which you keep repeating.

siki

peace

I am amazed at these women, it is absolutely clear in Quran that multiple wives are allowed, why do you make so much fuss about it, wives are wives, not girl friends or mistresses , i do not know why you women think that it is a privilege?

One is trouble.

Two are more trouble.

And multiple? Big trouble

I think we should research more on Ma Malkat Emnakum.

siki

Samia