Number of wives?
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Very true, farida, women are not meant to have more than one husband at a time. But the reason is not identifying the father, because we have DNA tests these days.
DNA is modern phenomenon and the Qur'an is for all ages, including those who can not affort DNA tests.
That is equally true of modern wives. Having multiple wives reduces the number of parental hours a child can have in the same way as multiple husbands. So both are bad.
Having a full time job too reduces number of valuable parental hours and what a miserable situation for children when they have to rely on child minders for their upbringing.
The question is not if both are good or bad but what is the reality and the sadly so called monogamous society hypocritically takes mistresses, girlfriends and boyfriends, As a result everyone is adulterated including children.
peace -
No Samia let's be honest and admit that a woman is not supposed to have more then one husband, at a time, as ancestry is very important. Remember the ayat, where God instructs us to call children by their father's name. Also, for the importance of knowing one's ancestry, ask adopted kids who do not know about their parents.
Children may not know about their fathers for many reasons other than, or least for polyandry. "And call them by their fathers' names, but if you do not know their fathers, then they are your brothers...".So even the quraan accommodated for that.
I hope you did not, nor the others, understood that I am for polyandry. It cannot be that I am strongly against polygamy without the restriction cited in the only verse mentioning polygamy, and then support polyandry. My first post in this subject was in response to someone who asked for a verse where God prohibits polygamy
There is nothing in the Quran forbidding the man from making the same promise with another wife if he can keep it.
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Children may not know about their fathers for many reasons other than, or least for polyandry. "And call them by their fathers' names, but if you do not know their fathers, then they are your brothers...".So even the quraan accommodated for that.
Salaam Samia,
Of course the Qur'an accommodates all situations but that does not negate the fact that ancestry is very important in Islam and women are asked not to hide it.I hope you did not, nor the others, understood that I am for polyandry.
Who are we to judge but provocative response would solve nothing. Let?s eliminate this friction and do all we can to work together for wider good and hold dialogue with those men whose views may appear harsh.
peace -
Who are we to judge but provocative response would solve nothing. Let?s eliminate this friction and do all we can to work together for wider good and hold dialogue with those men whose views may appear harsh.
peaceI did ot use the word "judge"; and provocative response can shake up some people and make them think impartially. This is not fiction.
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Samia
Samia you and your other friends got this one wrong too, as in many previous cases. You are so impressed by west that don't mind even making fun of signs of Allah.I do not understand what west has to do here in this discussion, but I want you to show me what signs of Allah my friends and I make fun of.
And what are those "many previous cases"? Who decides that we/ I got them wrong? You? nope
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Exactly, i do not understand either why the "west" is stated as opposed to "allah" ? The "west" being part of the creation (as far as i know) and "allah" being the one god of all creation....but may be rajah thinks differently...
Also samia, I did understand that you are not for polyandry and i'm happy to be counted among your friends -*
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Quran 424
Polyandry is forbidden...
Amazing how simple this verse makes things- to understand. Thanks FAR. yay
God Bless All.
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Amazing how simple this verse makes things- to understand. Thanks FAR. yay
God Bless All.
How is that? Because both of you put "muhsanaat" as married? Comme on! The verse after it says "And whoever among you could not find the means to marry the muhsanaat (married, according to you), then MMA....". Does it mean that there are means to marry them, but some do not have them? What is MMA in your opinion (both of you)? Because they seem to be the alternative in case you are uable to marry "the married"!
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Exactly, i do not understand either why the "west" is stated as opposed to "allah" ? The "west" being part of the creation (as far as i know) and "allah" being the one god of all creation....but may be rajah thinks differently...
Also samia, I did understand that you are not for polyandry and i'm happy to be counted among your friends -*
And I am flattered my friends are those who have reason handshake
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How is that? Because both of you put "muhsanaat" as married? Comme on! The verse after it says "And whoever among you could not find the means to marry the muhsanaat (married, according to you), then MMA....". Does it mean that there are means to marry them, but some do not have them? What is MMA in your opinion (both of you)? Because they seem to be the alternative in case you are uable to marry "the married"!
And is it simple or what?
hypno
We can marry married women in our right hands.....
425
And married women except those whom possess your right hands ????.Now what if a person can?t afford to marry even from those they possess in their right hands????then get permission from their guardians i.e. for leniency.
426
And who not is able of you to afford that he marries married women, believing women, from those whom possess your right hands of your maids believing and Allah knows all about your faith you are one from another the marry them with permission of their guardian s and give them their bridal-due in a fair manner married women should not be adulterous nor given to secret love affairs and when they are married????..When ever we start quistioning , we always learn something new!
Allah Hafiz.
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Heya Raj-ah, the verses in the quran which talk about the prophet's wives (plural) can be referring to wives married sequentially, each after the previous wife has died, and not simultainiously.
No, Sir you have to revisit the verses they are very clear.
Samia,
By west I mean Anti Islamic propoganda, sorry if I did not used appropraite word, but what to say that almost all the propoganda against Islam orginates from west.
Associating polygene with Islam, as if it were introduced by it or is the norm according to its teachings, is one of the most persistent myths perpetuated in Western literature and media now a days.
Samia quran is word of Allah and it is not what you and your friends wish. You have to understand that Polygene was allowed in Quran for a specific purpose at specific time, this is crystal clear.
I have explained it in the other thread that; I just copy it.Salaam'
First of all we have to get out of the inferiority complex. Yaseen, I think is a European and is definitely impressed by many of the existing cultural values there. Well we have no objection to that. But the problem starts when impressed by some latest ideology or cultural value he tries to change the Quran according to his own wishes and thoughts. Off course I am not saying that he or any one who does this have bad intentions.
For example consider why this issue of many wives was not raised till a century ago? with all these crackers, simply because it was not an issue then. Presently in Europe Muslims are bashed and criticised for practicing polygene, because Europeans think it is not good not just, however they would have no objection if women too are allowed to practice polyandry. They forget that few centuries back the Hindus, and even Jews practiced Polygene. In Judaism Polygene was permitted. According to Talmudic law, Abraham had 2 wives, and Solomon had hundreds of wives. The practice of polygene continued until Rabbi Gershom ben Yehudah. (960 A.D to 1030 A.D) issued an edict against it. The Jewish Sephardic communities living in Muslim countries continued the practice till as late as 1950, when an Act of the chief Rabbinate of Israel extended the ban on marrying more than one wife.
Slavery is another example for which Islam is criticised, more than ever at present. Again, until last century the west was the champion of slavery most of their wealth owes to the trading of slaves, but as soon it was abolished and its negative points over came its positive points, many Muslim scholars came ahead trying to convince that Islam was the first to abolish slavery. That was with good intentions but not the reality.
I have never seen so much deviation from original meanings of ayat as is done in this article.
What I mean to say is that when the writer starts reading Quran to answer a question he has already arrived at a conclusion, the conclusion that Polygene is not good and not just.
There have been many explanations to above ayat of Surah Nisa. The one that fits the most according to our understanding, we will discuss it shortly.
We must know that Quran was not send to us in a book shape it was revealed, part by part, many of the Ayats are general and many are specific for the problems of the people those were faced at the time.
After the battle of Uhd, when many Muslims were killed, many new problems arose which were never there before. One was of the orphans and widows.What is said about Yaseen can be said about Samia and Elke too.
I am no one to decide, dear Samia, it is the Quran which decides.
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rajah,
from one short addition of mine to samia's post how can you derive what i think about polygamy ? Not to talk bout slavery in islam?
i'm am not a champion of polygamy but i never stated it didn't exist in quran. i even agree with some of what you write hereFor example consider why this issue of many wives was not raised till a century ago? with all these crackers, simply because it was not an issue then. Presently in Europe Muslims are bashed and criticised for practicing polygene, because Europeans think it is not good not just, however they would have no objection if women too are allowed to practice polyandry. They forget that few centuries back the Hindus, and even Jews practiced Polygene.
except the part
however they would have no objection if women too are allowed to practice polyandry
... europeans have diverse ideas on these issues too
What you say about slavery is correct as well, but do you mean to say that if i agree on this it would mean that i accept slavery or that i should because it is mentionned in quran?
come on, stop generalizing and putting people in boxes
life is much more complex than that -
Samia,
By west I mean Anti Islamic propoganda, sorry if I did not used appropraite word, but what to say that almost all the propoganda against Islam orginates from west.
Originates from the west? So you are OK with the the corruption of Islam that originates from Muslims themselves since the first centries of islam in the form of hadiths and funny "Islamic" law? That's what I fight against and do not accept, because it touches my life, and other muslims' lives, directly or indirectly. What some one in the west or the east says does not even merit my time as much as it does you.
Samia quran is word of Allah and it is not what you and your friends wish. You have to understand that Polygene was allowed in Quran for a specific purpose at specific time, this is crystal clear.
I have explained it in the other thread that; I just copy it.I am no one to decide, dear Samia, it is the Quran which decides.
I can also use this "holier than thou" rubbish against you, but I don't because I am not bankrupt in reasoning. If you just took the burden of reading my posts, not all over this site, but just on the first page of this thread you would not come up with this nonensense, and you would not even use this wrong word "polygene multiple genes" which you keep repeating.
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peace
I am amazed at these women, it is absolutely clear in Quran that multiple wives are allowed, why do you make so much fuss about it, wives are wives, not girl friends or mistresses , i do not know why you women think that it is a privilege?
One is trouble.
Two are more trouble.
And multiple? Big trouble
I think we should research more on Ma Malkat Emnakum.
siki
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peace
I am amazed at these women, it is absolutely clear in Quran that multiple wives are allowed, why do you make so much fuss about it, wives are wives, not girl friends or mistresses , i do not know why you women think that it is a privilege?
One is trouble.
Two are more trouble.
And multiple? Big trouble
I think we should research more on Ma Malkat Emnakum.
siki
Women? Do you see only women on this thread who are against unrestricted polygamy, or you are equally blind from the condition set for polygamy in this one verse?
And it takes two to tango if there were no as much as, or more, women than men supporting unrestricted polygamy, polygamy would have been as real as flying pigs. -
Samia
Originates from the west? So you are OK with the the corruption of Islam that originates from Muslims themselves since the first centries of islam in the form of hadiths and funny "Islamic" law? That's what I fight against and do not accept, because it touches my life, and other muslims' lives, directly or indirectly. What some one in the west or the east says does not even merit my time as much as it does you.
I can also use this "holier than thou" rubbish against you, but I don't because I am not bankrupt in reasoning. If you just took the burden of reading my posts, not all over this site, but just on the first page of this thread you would not come up with this nonensense, and you would not even use this wrong word "polygene multiple genes" which you keep repeating.
The only thing noticeable in your whole post is pointing out the spelling mistake, Thanks for that.
Islamic law is not funny lady!, No law is funny, changes are needed according to time. -
peace
I am amazed at these women, it is absolutely clear in Quran that multiple wives are allowed, why do you make so much fuss about it, wives are wives, not girl friends or mistresses , i do not know why you women think that it is a privilege?
One is trouble.
Two are more trouble.
And multiple? Big trouble
I think we should research more on Ma Malkat Emnakum.
siki
Salaam Siki,
In fact I am amazed at men who think it a privilige for them that they can take multiple wives and often joke about it. I see this a very serious responsibility and I believe it is more to do with safegurding women's status and putting up a few hurdles for men.
As for Ma Malkat Emnakum it does not imply a licence for men to take concubines outside marriage, but rather a RESPONSIBILITY to take into your care as Qwamoon those vulnerable women who are otherwise left with no option but selling their bodes to support themselves which, in turn results in sin and the spreading of STD.
peace -
rajah,
from one short addition of mine to samia's post how can you derive what i think about polygamy ? Not to talk bout slavery in islam?
i'm am not a champion of polygamy but i never stated it didn't exist in quran. i even agree with some of what you write hereQuote
For example consider why this issue of many wives was not raised till a century ago? with all these crackers, simply because it was not an issue then. Presently in Europe Muslims are bashed and criticised for practicing polygene, because Europeans think it is not good not just, however they would have no objection if women too are allowed to practice polyandry. They forget that few centuries back the Hindus, and even Jews practiced Polygene.Ok!
except the part
Quote
however they would have no objection if women too are allowed to practice polyandry... europeans have diverse ideas on these issues too
Actually the balme is inequality by allowing men to marry more than one wife at a time, therfore how can this inequality be removed
- By abolishing the practice (which is not possible as disscussed in detail)
- By allowing women to also practice polyandry
The reason i wrote they would have no objection if women are allowed polyandry, there would be no issue at all.
Elke
What you say about slavery is correct as well, but do you mean to say that if i agree on this it would mean that i accept slavery or that i should because it is mentionned in quran?
This is the point, you in your mind are against Slavery and you donot like it, that is the way you want to see the Quran, but that is not possible. Slavery was not abolished in Quran, but discouraged.
Elke
come on, stop generalizing and putting people in boxes
life is much more complex than thatI am sorry to mix you up with advocate of polyandry and with so called scholars who say Islam abolished slavery.
Dear Siki,
Very wise statement we should consider the most important point "right hand possesses"
This has been long established that polygyny is allowed in Islam and Quran. Is that "right hand" in addition to four wives or what is it? This is the question which is confusing one? -
How is that? Because both of you put "muhsanaat" as married? Comme on! The verse after it says "And whoever among you could not find the means to marry the muhsanaat (married, according to you), then MMA....". Does it mean that there are means to marry them, but some do not have them? What is MMA in your opinion (both of you)? Because they seem to be the alternative in case you are uable to marry "the married"!
424
And the protected/inaccessible/ unapproachable women except those whom possess your right hands ????.
425
And who not is able of you to afford that he marries protected/ inaccessible/ unapproachable women, believing women then (marry) from Ma Malkat Aimanokum you have, believing and Allah knows all about your faith you are one from another then marry them with permission of their guardian?s and give them their bridal-due in a fair manner married women should not be adulterous nor given to secret love affairs and when they are married????..?????????